LDS Freedom Forum

keeprunning wrote:yeah, maybe bob and jason should yell at my husband instead of me about going out and buying a gun.

I think I might stock up on booze so that I can get my future captors drunk and peacefully escape from them.

LOL that method has worked quite well in times past!

It kills me how often I hear of one spouse who "gets it"...while the other believes in merely faith without works...or just don't think about it and it will be allright. Bob and Jason should yell away! If your husband is LDS...perhaps you could read the proclamation on the family to him...and gently remind him of his responsibility!

Interesting to hear of your situation keeprunning.

So often my experience has been that it is the female spouse who "Will not allow a gun in her home"...thereby making it difficult for her husband to fulfill his responsibility to his family.

I think one way a man provides protection for his family is to be spiritually clean, standing on Holy ground.

I agree.

Was I yelling??? I'm sorry, didn't mean to "write" like I was yelling----

27 days after Jo and I met we were married in the SLC temple. Now, that may seem a bit quick to some, but when it's right it's right. We were together 40 years and 4 months when she passed away.

Jo knew I was a hunter and an avid outdoorsman, and I wanted her to share in my experiences. I had purchased a Marlin .22 semi-auto rifle a few months before we met, and I decided to see if she might like shooting.

We went to an abandoned gravel pit where I set up several targets. Behind the middle target I lit a candle and placed the target, a small perfume bottle filled with gasoline, in front of the candle. It was my plan to let her shoot, see if she could hit the cans, then take the .22 and shoot the bottle creating a small blast that might get her interested in shooting.

I had measured off the distance, about 50 yards walked back handed her the empty gun and demonstrated to her how to hold it, breath control, all the necessary things a new shooter needs to know, things like stepping and leaning into the shot, keeping both eyes open while sighting, where to hold the front sight in connection with the rear sight, all that stuff.

Honestly, she had never fired a gun before, it was very obvious. And myself having grown up with guns, also being in the military, where I had watched with great amusement, full grown men shaking in their boots before firing a simple M-2 carbine. I figured there was no way she was going to hit one of those cans at 50 yards without a lot of practice.

After some preparation I figured she was ready, loaded the gun and handed it to her at the same time asking her which "can" she was going to shoot at. She aimed the rifle and replied, that little thing right there in the middle, pulled the trigger and, you guessed it, my little demonstration went up in a ball of flame.

I remember resisting the terrible urge to scream "GIVE ME MY RIFLE" and grabbing it away from her. Darn good thing I didn't, right then and there I knew my Jo was a shooter. I looked at her, her eyes were big and she exclaimed WOW, did you see that?? "I had," [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here]! But I knew she was hooked. We fired 10, 50 round boxes of ammo that day and many more since. Jo loved shooting, and she become quite skilled, with the .22's.

It was my desire that she knew how to defend herself if needed. I sold the little Marlin and purchased a Ruger 10-22, not because I was unhappy with the Marlin, it was a very accurate rifle, but because I wanted her to have all the firepower she needed, and I figured two 25 round mags taped together would give her that, the Marlin was a tubular fed magazine.

Jo loved shooting the .22's, but she struggled with my big bore pistols, and shooting a shotgun was out of the question. I had trouble finding a weapon with grips that would fit her small hands. She finally settled on a Russian made Makarov 9X18, I should have purchased it in .380, but 9X18 ammo was cheap and in plentiful supply.

Back then we didn't have neighbors, and we could simply go out into the back yard and shoot. Can't do that now, people all around me. But it sure has been fun reminiscing!

Thanks

Bob

nah, Bob, you weren't yelling, just admonishing. Cool memories with your wife.

In my husbands defense, he is a worthy faithful man, very protective. Just has never really been around guns much. Camping and outdoorsy, yes, hunting, no. He just didn't grow up that way. And like I said earlier, it's just hard the way our lives are now to imagine needing one, let alone getting around to buy one. Unless it's for hunting and he gets into that.
I dunno..

bobhenstra wrote:Was I yelling??? I'm sorry, didn't mean to "write" like I was yelling----

27 days after Jo and I met we were married in the SLC temple. Now, that may seem a bit quick to some, but when it's right it's right. We were together 40 years and 4 months when she passed away.

Jo knew I was a hunter and an avid outdoorsman, and I wanted her to share in my experiences. I had purchased a Marlin .22 semi-auto rifle a few months before we met, and I decided to see if she might like shooting.

We went to an abandoned gravel pit where I set up several targets. Behind the middle target I lit a candle and placed the target, a small perfume bottle filled with gasoline, in front of the candle. It was my plan to let her shoot, see if she could hit the cans, then take the .22 and shoot the bottle creating a small blast that might get her interested in shooting.

I had measured off the distance, about 50 yards walked back handed her the empty gun and demonstrated to her how to hold it, breath control, all the necessary things a new shooter needs to know, things like stepping and leaning into the shot, keeping both eyes open while sighting, where to hold the front sight in connection with the rear sight, all that stuff.

Honestly, she had never fired a gun before, it was very obvious. And myself having grown up with guns, also being in the military, where I had watched with great amusement, full grown men shaking in their boots before firing a simple M-2 carbine. I figured there was no way she was going to hit one of those cans at 50 yards without a lot of practice.

After some preparation I figured she was ready, loaded the gun and handed it to her at the same time asking her which "can" she was going to shoot at. She aimed the rifle and replied, that little thing right there in the middle, pulled the trigger and, you guessed it, my little demonstration went up in a ball of flame.

I remember resisting the terrible urge to scream "GIVE ME MY RIFLE" and grabbing it away from her. Darn good thing I didn't, right then and there I knew my Jo was a shooter. I looked at her, her eyes were big and she exclaimed WOW, did you see that?? "I had," [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here]! But I knew she was hooked. We fired 10, 50 round boxes of ammo that day and many more since. Jo loved shooting, and she become quite skilled, with the .22's.

It was my desire that she knew how to defend herself if needed. I sold the little Marlin and purchased a Ruger 10-22, not because I was unhappy with the Marlin, it was a very accurate rifle, but because I wanted her to have all the firepower she needed, and I figured two 25 round mags taped together would give her that, the Marlin was a tubular fed magazine.

Jo loved shooting the .22's, but she struggled with my big bore pistols, and shooting a shotgun was out of the question. I had trouble finding a weapon with grips that would fit her small hands. She finally settled on a Russian made Makarov 9X18, I should have purchased it in .380, but 9X18 ammo was cheap and in plentiful supply.

Back then we didn't have neighbors, and we could simply go out into the back yard and shoot. Can't do that now, people all around me. But it sure has been fun reminiscing!

Thanks

Bob

Thank you for the story Bob! Love'em! You always have some neat little trick I've never heard of or seen before!!!

Jason, Full auto is a small part of reasoning for a class III. A supressor takes kick back away and allows a smaller child or woman to fire a larger caliber. Also shorter barrels are easier to handle. But I would also get the full auto capabilities

Henmasher wrote:Jason, Full auto is a small part of reasoning for a class III. A supressor takes kick back away and allows a smaller child or woman to fire a larger caliber. Also shorter barrels are easier to handle. But I would also get the full auto capabilities

I like short and I like quiet....also like lo pro.

In most cases full auto can easily and quickly be remedied by a machinist. Silencers aren't difficult to make in a pinch. Barrels are not so easy (unless you want a crude hacksaw job).

I think it was Winchester that did a study and found that shotgun barrel length over 14 inches didn't effect shot patterns. The longer barrels provided for a slower and steadier swing for tracking birds.

Flash suppressors and muzzle brakes aren't class 3.

I realize that you can easily make a can and file a sear, and if you're okay with that fine, but you most definitely won't have select fire. You'll have full auto until the mag is empty. Not my idea of fun and in fact very dangerous to the user as the muzzle climbs.

Swiss is a rather slight lass, but you should see her handle the big stuff (600 grain Brenneke @ 1500fps), no problem at all. She's a shooter. If I could only get my cross dominant daughter and firstborn son settled in! Soon enough.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Flash suppressors and muzzle brakes aren't class 3.

I realize that you can easily make a can and file a sear, and if you're okay with that fine, but you most definitely won't have select fire. You'll have full auto until the mag is empty. Not my idea of fun and in fact very dangerous to the user as the muzzle climbs.

Swiss is a rather slight lass, but you should see her handle the big stuff (600 grain Brenneke @ 1500fps), no problem at all. She's a shooter. If I could only get my cross dominant daughter and firstborn son settled in! Soon enough.

I'm not a full auto buff....semi works just great!

Yeah that cross dominance is the pits.....speaking from first hand experience!

I have never been a fan of full-auto either, but for laying down cover fire I wouldn't mind it if I had the luxury of an ammo dump. I like class 3 not for the future, but for right now. Silencers are great. Sucks that you can't hunt with silencers and night vision legally in many/most jurisdictions. In reality though most ammo isn't subsonic and thus silencers wouldn't do much until you compromised on the velocity front.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Flash suppressors and muzzle brakes aren't class 3.

I think he was talking about a Sound suppressors which are a class 3 item, the one i have takes 50% of the recoile out of the gun, but you do need to pay uncle sam $200 sin tax

KalelIsbell wrote:

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Flash suppressors and muzzle brakes aren't class 3.

I think he was talking about a Sound suppressors which are a class 3 item, the one i have takes 50% of the recoile out of the gun, but you do need to pay uncle same $200 sin tax

Yeah $200 on KSL goes a long ways....

I'll say it again.............."Mt. Zerin........move thee hence..." If we can't do this, don't expect to survive

I thought about that and wasn't sure of their meaning, so I thought I would clarify.

sbsion wrote:I'll say it again.............."Mt. Zerin........move thee hence..." If we can't do this, don't expect to survive

Good thing Mt. Zerin has been taken care of already!

Jason wrote:

sbsion wrote:I'll say it again.............."Mt. Zerin........move thee hence..." If we can't do this, don't expect to survive

Good thing Mt. Zerin has been taken care of already!

Mt. Timpanogas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

Roane homeowner kills burglar; second suspect charged

A homeowner fatally shot a 19-year-old Rockwood man during a burglary, and authorities have charged an alleged accomplice in the break-in.

Michael S. Johnson died at the Roane Medical Center of injuries sustained about 7:55 p.m. Sunday after he entered through a window of the home at 419 Old Valley Road, according to a report filed by Roane County Sheriff’s Office Detective Greg Scalf.

Authorities arrested Preston D. Harvest, also 19, of Harriman and charged him with attempted aggravated burglary and vandalism. He was being held today in jail in lieu of $52,000 bond.

According to Scalf’s report, the homeowner alerted authorities that someone had broken into his home and he believed he shot the intruder. Responding officers located Johnson and Harvest, but the report did not state where they were found.

“Mr. Harvest admitted to RCSO deputies at the scene that he and the shooting victim had planned on burglarizing the resident’s home earlier that day, and added that later they had come back to the home and had attempted to force the homeowner’s front door open,” Scalf wrote in the report.

Harvest said he waited outside as Johnson entered the home through a window. A few moments later Harvest said he heard gunfire.

Scalf said crime scene investigators determined there was physical evidence confirming the homeowner’s version of what occurred and that Johnson was shot inside the home.

Johnson’s body was sent to the Regional Forensic Center in Knoxville for an autopsy.

Roane County Sheriff Jack Stockton was unavailable today for comment because he was engaged in the probe, his office said.

Once the investigation is complete the results will be sent to the District Attorney’s Office for review, Scalf noted in his report.

More details as they develop online and in Tuesday’s News Sentinel.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/12/ ... t-charged/

holyhabanero wrote:I feel that we are to do all we can to protect ourselves and our property from whatever may come, and having the tools (guns) necessary to do so is not only our right, but our obligation. There will likely come a time where we will have to protect ourselves.

I think where the problem lies is when we entertain thoughts of taking up those arms in a violent revolution. The Lord saw that such a time would come however, and everyone will have to make a choice wether or not to stand and fight, or flee to Zion.

D&C 45:68-69 wrote:68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.
69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

After all, we know that the inspired Second Amendment was not inscribed with the primary thoughts of shooting ducks, geese, or deer (...in times of famine or excess of hunger...); but rather, for the precise purpose of shooting predators of the “two-legged” kind.

Did not Porter Rockwell, bodyguard to the Prophet Joseph carry arms? Do not the bodyguards of the current Brethren carry arms?

I say, with respect to having a little “extra protection”, nearby…what is good for the Prophet and the Brethren, is good for my family and me.

…and then there are these words of wisdom from my dad…

…discussion from a different thread, having application here…

dconrad000 wrote:

ithink wrote:

threepercentite wrote:Sun Tzu’s book, The Art of War, should be on everyones required reading list... for exactly the reasons posted. excellent observation and post.

War, maybe, but then, what of this? Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;

I liken knowledge of those principles (in that book) to this:

When I was a kid growing up on the ranch in Alberta...Dad taught me how to use a gun -- and to use it safely and responsibly...and I will always remember these words, Dad told me, "Son, it's better to have a gun and not need one...than to need a gun and not have one."

dconrad000 wrote:

ithink wrote:
Nice quote. It is for that reason we have guns too...

...and lest we are left merely with very expensive clubs...don't forget to load up on plenty of ammo, too.

Not just Porter Rockwell, but Hyrum and Joseph Smith both had pistols at Carthage jail! Lamb to the slaughter for his person (as he knew that was going to happen), but he wasn't giving up his friends so easily.

A very excellent point, SwissMrs.

sbsion wrote:I'll say it again.............."Mt. Zerin........move thee hence..." If we can't do this, don't expect to survive

Nonsense, lots of people who cannot move a mountain will survive. Mt Zerin---?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_Mountain_(Wyoming)

Neat study--

Bob

I don't think it's nonsense in total, but I think it is wrong in it's extremity.

“ explained concerning the coming of the Son of Man; also that it is a false idea that the Saints will escape all the judgments, whilst the wicked suffer; for all flesh is subject to suffer, and ‘the righteous shall hardly escape’ [see D&C 63:34]; still many of the Saints will escape, for the just shall live by faith [see Habakkuk 2:4]; yet many of the righteous shall fall a prey to disease, to pestilence, etc., by reason of the weakness of the flesh, and yet be saved in the Kingdom of God. So that it is an unhallowed principle to say that such and such have transgressed because they have been preyed upon by disease or death, for all flesh is subject to death; and the Savior has said, ‘Judge not, lest ye be judged.’ [See Matthew 7:1.]”
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnex ... ntLocale=0

Faith is required to escape the judgments to come, but what level of faith (surely we don't all have to move a mountain)...and the result of not meeting that level (we would then suffer but not neccesarily die) are the unquantifiables.

bobhenstra wrote:

sbsion wrote:I'll say it again.............."Mt. Zerin........move thee hence..." If we can't do this, don't expect to survive

Nonsense, lots of people who cannot move a mountain will survive. Mt Zerin---?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_Mountain_(Wyoming)

Neat study--

Bob

Thanks Bob! I visited that site, from a bit of a distance, on a geology field trip, yet I couldn't remember the name of the place. It was quite a few years ago. Thanks for reminding me.