POKER & THE ART OF WAR: To My Beloved, Fellow Patriots

[ithink]

ithink wrote:

Nice quote. It is for that reason we have guns too...

...and lest we are left merely with very expensive clubs...don't forget to load up on plenty of ammo, too.

Exactly.

[ithink]

Thank you for taking the time to lay that all out, and to clarify your position on that, ithink. I'm happy to know that the difficulty was not with the fact that it was done by the Brethren; but rather, the reason why.

...nevertheless, a well thought out and plausible explanation.

Here is another plausible explanation; towards which I lean:

Yes, there are unauthorized versions circulating here and there -- but that does not carry the same significance as main-stream; Church stamped and approved authorized materials.

When Jesus walked the earth, from time to time he corrected his apostles. Peter was known from time to time as being a bit of a "loose cannon" -- even if he was true and right in what he did...and we all love Peter.

Jesus lived during a time when secret combinations dominated everything, including the governments of Rome and Judea.

But it was not His mission; nor His Church's mission to confront those governments. Other means would be brought to bear, to accomplish that in due time.

Jesus knew what His mission was, and He focused on that. He did not get caught up in unnecessary confrontations with the government and its armies -- that would only distract him from His more important purpose.

Therefore, it would not have been following good public relations and diplomatic principles for Him and His Church to openly be promoting a book, which exposed the truth of the evils of those governments; complete with a final section entitled "Operation Counter Attack".

You recall that the Prophet Joseph once publicly corrected the Apostle Brigham Young -- who humbly accepted the counsel...and went on to become a great prophet himself.

Well the Lord is in charge of His Church today...and the Lord has specific plans for His Church today as well. Its main mission is to grow the gospel -- as big and as fast as possible...that that stone cut out without hands may become a mountain and fill the whole earth.

The Lord saw to it that the Constitution of this land was established...and the most important reason for that, was so that His Church could be restored again to the earth; be able to take root -- and to flourish.

The Lord understands full well, that that same constitution now hangs by a thread…and that because of unconstitutional laws that have been passed...if the Federal Government were so inclined -- it has the power to greatly impede the progress of the Church...just as Wilford Woodruff was shown in vision, if the counsel of the Lord was not heeded, in what course of action to take...imprisonment; confiscation of all assets; buildings, temples, etc.

...and if the Lord's counsel is not followed...He will not send down a whirlwind of fire to save us and the Church.

The Lord is in charge of His Church today, just as He was in His day. He inspires those at the helm to take steps that He knows is wise -- even if some of those steps might be misunderstood by some of the membership.

As in Jesus' day, His Church does not give the secret combination, nor the Federal government any reason to believe that the Church is coming after it -- and indeed, the Church is not coming after it, directly.

The secret combination shall however, be brought down by other means...which includes members, acting in their unofficial capacities, as merely concerned citizens -- side-by side with non-member concerned citizens...and other forces.

(…at least those members who figured it out, by heeding the current and continued counsel to study the Book of Mormon; seek out the Spirit; study the issues; and exercise their civic duty -- at least a certain number of those -- others will no doubt have other missions to which the Spirit will guide -- other places they feel called to direct their energies...this is all between the individual and God...so let's not be too hasty to judge others who aren't inclined to do as we do...God will be the judge...not us...but definitely, let's each seek, by the Spirit our own path -- and then DO IT.)

...and the stone cut out without hands continues to roll forth...in the Lord's way.

Nice work and I see your point, even though I don't think our mission is the same as Christ's. Did you know Elder Taylor called our President Young during a Stake Conference for not administering tithing properly? Brother Brigham was tithing newcomers on all they owned, but Brother Taylor pointed out that tithing was on the excess, or increase, not the whole value. Brother Brigham was humble enough to rise and stand corrected, even though the correction came from a "lower" authority.

And for the record, I myself am also a loose cannon. I get into a lot more trouble, but it is never boring, and besides, what else are you supposed to do when fire runs in your veins?

[dconrad000]

...I myself am also a loose cannon. I get into a lot more trouble, but it is never boring...

I must confess...me too...guilty as charged.

[dconrad000]

...another book I don't think I saw on your list...a very fascinating and enlightening book on modern-day secret combinations, is Bo Gritz's "Called To Serve"...

Thank you for the suggestions....as they are very much appreciated! Shall be added shortly! Any links to online availability?

BG has also given me a couple of great recommendations!

Made a couple other additions while I was at it.....also if you have suggestion on news or information sources (links)....greatly appreciated also.

If I can obtain a feed then it is separate...if not located under News Links or Information Links.

...another great book, at least that every LDS person should read...one of the most inspiring books I've ever read...is "Parley P Pratt, Autobiography".

...read it online, several years ago...then something killed that site...had a lot of great books on it...but I imagine Deseret Book probably didn't like having people able to read all those books for free...which is understandable from a business perspective, I suppose.

[Jason]

...another book I don't think I saw on your list...a very fascinating and enlightening book on modern-day secret combinations, is Bo Gritz's "Called To Serve"...

Thank you for the suggestions....as they are very much appreciated! Shall be added shortly! Any links to online availability?

BG has also given me a couple of great recommendations!

Made a couple other additions while I was at it.....also if you have suggestion on news or information sources (links)....greatly appreciated also.

If I can obtain a feed then it is separate...if not located under News Links or Information Links.

...another great book, at least that every LDS person should read...one of the most inspiring books I've ever read...is "Parley P Pratt, Autobiography".

...read it online, several years ago...then something killed that site...had a lot of great books on it...but I imagine Deseret Book probably didn't like having people able to read all those books for free...which is understandable from a business perspective, I suppose.

...and they are first and foremost a business!!!

[dconrad000]

...two more books to add to the list (that I don't think I saw)...by ETB...probably not as important to read as "An Enemy Hath Done This"...but nevertheless good books..."The Red Carpet: Socialism, The Royal Road To Communism", and "God, Country, Family".

[Jason]

...two more books to add to the list (that I don't think I saw)...by ETB...probably not as important to read as "An Enemy Hath Done This"...but nevertheless good books..."The Red Carpet: Socialism, The Royal Road To Communism", and "God, Country, Family".

Thank you!!! They are on the list!

[dconrad000]

...great...and thanks again to you, for providing that resource.

[Jason]

...great...and thanks again to you, for providing that resource.

No problemo...my repository for everything! Nice little tool for collecting resources.

[dconrad000]

Nice work and I see your point, even though I don't think our mission is the same as Christ's.

I agree, our mission is not the same as Christ's. But my point was that while His personal mission was to prepare for and perform the Atonement...in His day, His Church -- that He established, had the primary mission of bringing people unto Christ...

...and His Church today has that same primary mission...to bring people unto Christ -- as many people as possible.

...and just as in His day -- at this present time, as well -- He is directing the affairs of His Church, so as not to become directly entangled in fighting governments and armies -- and secret combinations.

But when members of the Church read the Book of Mormon, as counseled to do...and seek and then obey the Spirit, as counseled to do...and do their civic duty, as counseled to do...many of those members -- that do those things will naturally be inspired to do certain other things -- without any direct or official, specific instruction having come from His Church...and in that manner, and by other means and forces -- the secret combination will ultimately be defeated.

[dconrad000]

...great...and thanks again to you, for providing that resource.

No problemo...my repository for everything! Nice little tool for collecting resources.

Another book you should post there with the notation "required reading" is the Book of Mormon (at least I don't think I saw it listed there).

...for it truly, and most powerfully spells out clearly, the situation with resect to the secret combination in our day; and that it is our responsibility as citizens exercising our civic duty -- to be aware of -- and to route out that secret combination from among us.

[Jason]

...great...and thanks again to you, for providing that resource.

No problemo...my repository for everything! Nice little tool for collecting resources.

Another book you should post there with the notation "required reading" is the Book of Mormon (at least I don't think I saw it listed there).

...for it truly, and most powerfully spells out clearly, the situation with resect to the secret combination in our day; and that it is our responsibility as citizens exercising our civic duty -- to be aware of -- and to route out that secret combination from among us.

True the best one really....and no it wasn't listed. Tends to create a bias in some people before they ever get started. I touch on it in more detail on my video tour here - http://yophat.blogspot.com/2009/02/natu ... heory.html

[dconrad000]

True the best one really....and no it wasn't listed. Tends to create a bias in some people before they ever get started...

There is wisdom in what you say...and an example of sound diplomatic thinking...don't scare the ducks at the pond away by "throwing the entire loaf of bread right at them".

[historian]

For your book recommendations Verlan Andersen's Book of Mormon and the Constitution is fantastic.
Have you guys seen the new Mcnaughton painting? Some one needs to send that to our "respected and fearless" leaders in Washington.
It has the Savior holding the Constitution, with some of the founders like: Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklin in the background. And then a supreme court justice hiding his face in shame. I only bring this up because it's good to see things like this once in a while.

[dconrad000]

For your book recommendations Verlan Andersen's Book of Mormon and the Constitution is fantastic.
Have you guys seen the new Mcnaughton painting? Some one needs to send that to our "respected and fearless" leaders in Washington.
It has the Savior holding the Constitution, with some of the founders like: Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklin in the background. And then a supreme court justice hiding his face in shame. I only bring this up because it's good to see things like this once in a while.

I've heard the name Verlan Andersen...and I think I vaguely remember someone mentioning a good book by him years ago, but I haven't read it. Thank you for mentioning that, Historian.

That picture sounds great, do you per chance have a link for it? I doubt those guys in DC would hang it on their wall.

[dconrad000]

For your book recommendations Verlan Andersen's Book of Mormon and the Constitution is fantastic.
Have you guys seen the new Mcnaughton painting? Some one needs to send that to our "respected and fearless" leaders in Washington.
It has the Savior holding the Constitution, with some of the founders like: Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklin in the background. And then a supreme court justice hiding his face in shame. I only bring this up because it's good to see things like this once in a while.

I've heard the name Verlan Andersen...and I think I vaguely remember someone mentioning a good book by him years ago, but I haven't read it. Thank you for mentioning that, Historian.

That picture sounds great, do you per chance have a link for it? I doubt those guys in DC would hang it on their wall.

...and it was well for you to put big quotation marks around the words respected and fearless...

[Original_Intent]

Link to the picture. http://www.shortpacked.com/McNaughton%20Fine%20Art.htm

The Book of Mormon and the Constitution is a good read. Many years ago I had Hans V Anderson Jr., who compiled the book, come speak at a stake fireside. It was well attended and he did a great job.

[dconrad000]

Thank you for posting that, Original_Intent.

...great picture.

[dconrad000]

TALK VERSUS ACTION

...an illustration of how action speaks louder than words.

...some follow-up thoughts on the parable at the top of this thread:

Did the servant, at the beginning of his experience possess knowledge and comprehension of the full picture of what was transpiring?

No, his perspective was obviously limited. Although he was a good and righteous man, he had no knowledge or comprehension of the operation that his master was undertaking...that would ultimately be the means of salvation to many thousands of souls.

He also did not comprehend that his master, having volunteered to personally take strong and swift action to neutralize the effect of his words, probably saved his life -- and that of his family's. For if that had not occurred, the Nazi's surely would have "dealt" with him and his family themselves...and he most probably would have lost much more than his job and his credibility for a season.

...Something else the servant did not comprehend -- that while his master was keeping quiet about his own personal views -- he was taking meaningful and effective ACTION, that would actually reap tremendous results that would really count for something in the end.

Quiet, meaningful ACTION speaks much, much louder than TALK...and because of his limited perspective, the servant did not realize that his TALK (while honest and truthful)...in this particular case, was placing in great peril, the far more effective plan of ACTION that needed to take place...dangerous, courageous ACTION that would actually save those many lives.

The servant, once having learned and understood all that -- being the good and compassionate person that he was...doubtless was happy that his master had wisely taken precisely the steps that he had.

In retrospect, the servant would have certainly been happy to know that the fruits of his having incurred the loss of his job and credibility for a season...had been to make it possible that many thousands of lives, of the oppressed, men, women and children...the very ones that he had cared about...that he had been TALKING about, were actually saved, by the ACTION that had been taking place, of which he had been unaware.

[dconrad000]

Here is another illustration of someone who did not have the full picture in the beginning... felt a little neglected at first...but a little later, once he saw the whole picture, realized that all was right and good.

Yesterday, in Sacrament meeting -- our newly called Relief Society Presidency spoke. One of the counselors shared this story. It was deeply moving...something you will probably want to share with your kids and grandkids.

THE RIFLE
by RIAN B. ANDERSON

Pa never had much compassion for the lazy or those who squandered their means and then never had enough for the necessities. But for those who were genuinely in need, his heart was as big as all outdoors. It was from him that I learned the greatest joy in life comes from giving, not from receiving. It was Christmas Eve 1881. I was fifteen years old and feeling like the world had caved in on me because there just hadn't been enough money to buy me the rifle that I'd wanted so bad that year for Christmas. We did the chores early that night for some reason. I just figured Pa wanted a little extra time so we could read in the Bible. So after supper was over I took my boots off and stretched out in front of the fireplace and waited for Pa to get down the old Bible. I was still feeling sorry for myself and, to be honest, I wasn't in much of a mood to read Scriptures.

But Pa didn't get the Bible, instead he bundled up and went outside. I couldn't figure it out because we had already done all the chores. I didn't worry about it long though, I was too busy wallowing in self-pity. Soon Pa came back in. It was a cold clear night out and there was ice in his beard. "Come on, Matt," he said. "Bundle up good, it's cold out tonight." I was really upset then. Not only wasn't I getting the rifle for Christmas, now Pa was dragging me out in the cold, and for no earthly reason that I could see. We'd already done all the chores, and I couldn't think of anything else that needed doing, especially not on a night like this. But I knew Pa was not very patient at one dragging one's feet when he'd told them to do something, so I got up and put my boots back on and got my cap, coat, and mittens. Ma gave me a mysterious smile as I opened the door to leave the house. Something was up, but I didn't know what.

Outside, I became even more dismayed. There in front of the house was the work team, already hitched to the big sled. Whatever it was we were going to do wasn't going to be a short, quick, little job. I could tell. We never hitched up the big sled unless we were going to haul a big load. Pa was already up on the seat, reins in hand. I reluctantly climbed up beside him. The cold was already biting at me. I wasn't happy. When I was on, Pa pulled the sled around the house and stopped in front of the woodshed. He got off and I followed. "I think we'll put on the high sideboards," he said. "Here, help me." The high sideboards! It had been a bigger job than I wanted to do with just the low sideboards on, but whatever it was we were going to do would be a lot bigger with the high sideboards on.

When we had exchanged the sideboards Pa went into the woodshed and came out with an armload of wood---the wood I'd spent all summer hauling down from the mountain, and then all fall sawing into blocks and splitting. What was he doing? Finally I said something. "Pa," I asked, "what are you doing?" "You been by the Widow Jensen's lately?" he asked. The Widow Jensen lived about two miles down the road. Her husband had died a year or so before and left her with three children, the oldest being eight. Sure, I'd been by, but so what? "Yeah," I said, "why?" "I rode by just today," Pa said. "Little Jakey was out digging around in the woodpile trying to find a few chips. They're out of wood, Matt." That was all he said and then he turned and went back into the woodshed for another armload of wood. I followed him. We loaded the sled so high that I began to wonder if the horses would be able to pull it.

Finally, Pa called a halt to our loading, then we went to the smoke house and Pa took down a big ham and a side of bacon. He handed them to me and told me to put them in the sled and wait. When he returned he was carrying a sack of flour over his right shoulder and a smaller sack of something in his left hand. "What's in the little sack?" I asked. "Shoes. They're out of shoes. Little Jakey just had gunny sacks wrapped around his feet when he was out in the woodpile this morning. I got the children a little candy too. It just wouldn't be Christmas without a little candy." We rode the two miles to Widow Jensen's, pretty much in silence. I tried to think through what Pa was doing. We didn't have much by worldly standards. Of course, we did have a big woodpile, though most of what was left now was still in the form of logs that I would have to saw into blocks and split before we could use it. We also had meat and flour, so we could spare that, but I knew we didn't have any money, so why was Pa buying them shoes and candy? Really, why was he doing any of this? Widow Jensen had closer neighbors than us. It shouldn't have been our concern.

We came in from the blind side of the Jensen house and unloaded the wood as quietly as possible. Then we took the meat and flour and shoes to the door. We knocked. The door opened crack and a timid voice said, "Who is it?" "Lucas Miles, Ma'am, and my son, Matt. Could we come in for a bit?" Widow Jensen opened the door and let us in. She had a blanket wrapped around her shoulders. The children were wrapped in another and were sitting in front of the fireplace by a very small fire that hardly gave off any heat at all. Widow Jensen fumbled with a match and finally lit the lamp. "We brought you a few things, Ma'am," Pa said, and set down the sack of flour. I put the meat on the table. Then Pa handed her the sack that had the shoes in it.

She opened it hesitantly and took the shoes out one pair at a time. There was a pair for her and one for each of the children - sturdy shoes, the best, shoes that would last. I watched her carefully. She bit her lower lip to keep it from trembling and then tears filled her eyes and started running down her cheeks. She looked up at Pa like she wanted to say something, but it wouldn't come out. "We brought a load of wood too, Ma'am," Pa said, then he turned to me and said, "Matt, go bring enough in to last for awhile. Let's get that fire up to size and heat this place up." I wasn't the same person when I went back out to bring in the wood. I had a big lump in my throat and, much as I hate to admit it, there were tears in my eyes too. In my mind I kept seeing those three kids huddled around the fireplace and their mother standing there with tears running down her cheeks and so much gratitude in her heart that she couldn't speak.

My heart swelled within me and joy filled my soul that I'd never known before. I had given at Christmas many times before, but never when it had made so much difference. I could see we were literally saving the lives of these people. I soon had the fire blazing and everyone's spirits soared. The kids started giggling when Pa handed them each a piece of candy and Widow Jensen looked on with a smile that probably hadn't crossed her face for a long time. She finally turned to us. "God bless you," she said. "I know the Lord himself has sent you. The children and I have been praying that he would send one of his angels to spare us." In spite of myself, the lump returned to my throat and the tears welled up in my eyes again.

I'd never thought of Pa in those exact terms before, but after Widow Jensen mentioned it I could see that it was probably true. I was sure that a better man than Pa had never walked the earth. I started remembering all the times he had gone out of his way for Ma and me, and many others. The list seemed endless as I thought on it.

Pa insisted that everyone try on the shoes before we left. I was amazed when they all fit and I wondered how he had known what sizes to get. Then I guessed that if he was on an errand for the Lord that the Lord would make sure he got the right sizes. Tears were running down Widow Jensen's face again when we stood up to leave. Pa took each of the kids in his big arms and gave them a hug. They clung to him and didn't want us to go. I could see that they missed their pa, and was glad that I still had mine.

At the door Pa turned to Widow Jensen and said, "The Mrs. wanted me to invite you and the children over for Christmas dinner tomorrow. The turkey will be more than the three of us can eat, and a man can get cantankerous if he has to eat turkey for too many meals. We'll be by to get you about eleven. It'll be nice to have some little ones around again. Matt, here, hasn't been little for quite a spell." I was the youngest. My two older brothers and two older sisters were all married and had moved away. Widow Jensen nodded and said, "Thank you, Brother Miles. I don't have to say, ‘May the Lord bless you,’ I know for certain that He will."

Out on the sled I felt a warmth that came from deep within and I didn't even notice the cold. When we had gone a ways, Pa turned to me and said, "Matt, I want you to know something. Your ma and me have been tucking a little money away here and there all year so we could buy that rifle for you, but we didn't have quite enough. Then yesterday a man who owed me a little money from years back came by to make things square. Your ma and me were real excited, thinking that now we could get you that rifle, and started into town this morning to do just that. But on the way we saw little Jakey out scratching in the woodpile with his feet wrapped in those gunny sacks and I knew what I had to do. So, Son, I spent the money for shoes and a little candy for those children. I hope you understand."

I understood, and my eyes became wet with tears again. I understood very well, and I was so glad Pa had done it. Just then the rifle seemed very low on my list of priorities. Pa had given me a lot more. He had given me the look on Widow Jensen's face and the radiant smiles of her three children. For the rest of my life, whenever I saw any of the Jensens, or split a block of wood, I remembered, and remembering brought back that same joy I felt riding home beside Pa that night. Pa had given me much more than a rifle that night, he had given me the best Christmas of my life.

[dconrad000]

...the most important Prophet of God to me at this very moment in time, save Jesus only...is the one that is alive and serving, right now.

Easier For Many, To Believe In Dead Prophets Than Living Ones

It seems that throughout the ages for many, it has always been easier to believe in dead prophets than in living prophets. In the days of Jeremiah and Isaiah, there were many that had believed that Noah, Abraham, Moses; and so forth had been prophets -- but they did not like how Jeremiah and Isaiah were doing things...did not like some of the things that they were saying...so they were not true prophets. (...or just name whatever prophet who was a living prophet at any particular time in the past...)

...and so it was, even with Jesus. Many who believed in all the (dead) Old Testament prophets -- did not believe that the living Jesus was who He said He was.

In our day, from time to time...I come across people that definitely believe that the early prophets of the Restored Church, were real prophets...Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor; and so forth...but they believe that our present prophets have lost their way...aren't really real prophets of the Lord.

...and if they were running the show; by gosh almighty...they'd surely be doing things differently.

I would wager that those people in our time with that attitude -- had they indeed been with Joseph Smith in those very difficult days...especially during some of the most severe of the trials...the darker hours...during the dark and terrible financial difficulties of Kirtland as one example, lets say...they would have found themselves amongst the very many...even many who had been very close to the prophet...that had lost faith in Joseph Smith, as a Prophet of God.

Yes...it seems...is it not easier for some...a great many, actually...because is that not the way of most the world...to truly believe in dead prophets...but not the living ones?

[AussieOi]

Nice story about Socialism there- the candy and shoes ditty

sorry, fogive my cinnicism, but i just can't stomach those fake tearchurning stories

i dont think they have a place in sacrament meeting either.

[dconrad000]

…my thoughts…

True Charity, the pure love of Christ – is where one chooses, by no compulsory means; and with righteous motives and purity of heart; how, when and where to give of one’s own hard-earned resources; of one’s own free will and choice – to help another, who may be in need.

It is the diametrically opposed opposite of socialism – which amounts to nothing more than usurped charity by compulsion. Someone else chooses for you; and then by force, or compulsory means – transfers what belongs to you – from you, to someone of their choosing.

Science fiction is something that could never happen in this world, as we know it.

Historical fiction is something plausible that could have happened, in a given era; may mirror similar events that did indeed happen in people’s lives – but nevertheless is a made-up story.

A parable is a made-up story intended to teach a principle to those with "ears to hear". It seems to me, that in the Savior’s time; those without "ears to hear", may well have scoffed at some of His deeply moving, fictional stories, such as “The Prodigal Son”; “The Good Samaritan”; and “The Ninety and Nine”.

The Spirit was strong in that Sacrament meeting last Sunday, as that good sister in our ward shared that story. I know what I felt and I cannot deny it...and it gave me a desire to do better; to be more like the father in that story.

[dconrad000]

...continued thoughts from a couple of postings ago...

Brigham Young teaches an important principle here:

Brigham on Doubting the Living Prophet

I can tell the people that once in my life I felt a want of confidence in brother Joseph Smith, soon after I became acquainted with him. It was not concerning religious matters-it was not about his revelations-but it was in relation to his financiering-to his managing the temporal affairs which he undertook. A feeling came over me that Joseph was not right in his financial management, though I presume the feeling did not last sixty seconds, and perhaps not thirty. But that feeling came on me once and once only, from the time I first knew him to the day of his death. It gave me sorrow of heart, and I clearly saw and understood, by the spirit of revelation manifested to me, that if I was to harbor a thought in my heart that Joseph could be wrong in anything, I would begin to lose confidence in him, and that feeling would grow from step to step, and from one degree to another, until at last I would have the same lack of confidence in his being the mouthpiece for the Almighty. Though I admitted in my feelings and knew all the time that Joseph was a human being and subject to err, still it was none of my business to look after his faults.

I repented of my unbelief, and that too, very suddenly; I repented about as quickly as I committed the error. It was not for me to question whether Joseph was dictated by the Lord at all times and under all circumstances or not. I never had the feeling for one moment, to believe that any man or set of men or beings upon the face of the whole earth had anything to do with him, for he was superior to them all, and held the keys of salvation over them. Had I not thoroughly understood this and believed it, I much doubt whether I should ever have embraced what is called “Mormonism.” He was called of God; God dictated him, and if He had a mind to leave him to himself and let him commit an error, that was no business of mine. And it was not for me to question it, if the Lord was disposed to let Joseph lead the people astray, for He had called him and instructed him to gather Israel and restore the Priesthood and kingdom to them.

It was not my prerogative to call him in question with regard to any act of his life. He was God’s servant, and not mine. He did not belong to the people but to the Lord, and was doing the work of the Lord, and if He should suffer him to lead the people astray, it would be because they ought to be led astray. If he should suffer them to be chastised, and some of them destroyed, it would be because they deserved it, or to accomplish some righteous purpose. That was my faith, and it is my faith still. (Journal of Discourses 4:297-98.)

[dconrad000]

...and here...

A story contained in the family lore of Brigham Young’s descendants illustrates the submissive nature of humility. It recounts that in a public meeting the Prophet Joseph, possibly as a test, sternly rebuked Brigham Young for something he had done or something he was supposed to have done but hadn’t—the detail is unclear. When Joseph finished the rebuke, everyone in the room waited for Brigham Young’s response. This powerful man, later known as the Lion of the Lord, in a voice everyone could tell was sincere, said simply and humbly, “Joseph, what do you want me to do?”

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... #footnote6