Opinions on Twighlight series.

[Jason]

My impression from reading about Joseph Smith is that he was extremely essoteric. Of course, having communed with God as he did how could one help but not be?

I think Joseph would have watched Twilight and congratulated Meyer for her imagination and intellect.

And sometimes I think we fall into the trap that style always conveys the substance of a particular art form. That is why we often allow our stake dances for youth to play songs that are filled with sexual innuendo but, since they are mainstream pop, the chaperones don't get it. Yet if someone tried to play something more in the metal genre they would quickly ask for it to be turned off, even though metal often has a much more positive message than mainstream music (and certainly more wholesome than most country music).

Four examples of songs that probably would not be played at a stake dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSMstXqiv3c An attack on greed, materialism and a call for repentence (not a Christian band but the lead singer is Jewish).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HdGUNm6-qI A very positive treatment of fatherhood and responsibility with heavy Christian symbolism of baptism and new life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4LyKd-Hws Heavy Christian symbolism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZjf9C6atT4 Baptism -- lyrics.

ROFLMBO.....yeah personal insight on Joseph huh....and he would condone wickedness???? have you heard the line about rationalization...

"One of the most critical challenges mankind faces today is to recognize the difference between happiness and mere pleasure. Satan and his forces have become extremely effective in their effort to convince people that pleasure should be the most sought-after objective. He slyly promises that wherever found, pleasure will bring happiness. Our television and movie screens are filled with not-so-subtle messages that encourage and persuade young and old alike to unbridle their passions and they will experience happiness. The results of this reckless course should be so apparent as we watch the tremendous social and psychological costs continue to mount." (Ensign Nov. 1993, p. 82)

"Satan has intensified his efforts to destroy the family by corrupting the youth and robbing childhood of its innocence. Our youth are especially vulnerable as the enemy cunningly utilizes every means at his disposal, including the mass media and changes in constitutional law, to deceive them. He bombards our homes with enticements of destructive and harmful products and morals through television, videos, press, books, etc. We as Latter-day Saints and all good people anywhere must consciously screen what comes into our homes. Parents have the inalienable right and the responsibility to educate their children. No inappropriate outsider should be allowed to dictate our family's values nor what our children are being taught." (Ensign Nov. 1994, p. 23)

"Our Heavenly Father has counseled us as Latter-day Saints to seek after "anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy" (Articles of Faith 1:13). Whatever you read, listen to, or watch makes an impression on you. Public entertainment and the media can provide you with much positive experience. They can uplift and inspire you, teach you good and moral principles, and bring you closer to the beauty this world offers. But they can also make what is wrong and evil look normal, exciting, and acceptable. - For The Strength of Youth

"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don't listen to music that is degrading." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.222)

Consider carefully the words of the prophet Alma to his errant son, Corianton, Forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes. (Alma 39:9) The lusts of your eyes. In our day, what does that expression mean? Movies, television programs and video recordings that are both suggestive and lewd....We counsel you young men [and women] not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive or pornographic. Watch those shows and entertainment that lift the spirit and promote clean thoughts and actions. (Ensign May 1986, p. 45)

"Be clean. I cannot emphasize that enough. Be clean. It is very, very important and you at your age are in such temptation all the time. It is thrown at you on television. It is thrown at you in books and magazines and videos. You do not have to rent them. Don't do it. Just don't do it. Don't look at them. If somebody proposes that you sit around all night watching some of that sleazy stuff, you say, (It¹s not for me. Stay away from it." (Denver Colorado, youth meeting, 14 Apr. 1996, Quote by Elder Joe J. Christensen, Ensign Nov. 1996, p. 40)

"Young men and women, keep yourselves worthy. Stay away from those environments, the music, the films, the videos, the clubs, and the associations that draw you into immoral conduct (see 1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Thes. 5:22; 2 Tim. 2:22; D&C 9:13)

Now, I must speak of another danger, almost unknown in our youth but now everywhere about you. Normal desires and attractions emerge in the teenage years; there is the temptation to experiment, to tamper with the sacred power of procreation. These desires can be intensified, even perverted, by pornography, improper music, or the encouragement from unworthy associations. What would have only been a more or less normal passing phase in establishing gender identity can become implanted and leave you confused, even disturbed.

If you consent, the adversary can take control of your thoughts and lead you carefully toward a habit and to an addiction, convincing you that immoral, unnatural behavior is a fixed part of your nature. "

See "Ye Are the Temple of God" for President Packer's full comments.

"I know it is hard counsel we give when we say movies that are R-rated, and many with PG-13 ratings, are produced by satanic influences. Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system. I repeat, because of what they really represent, these types of movies, music, tapes, etc. serve the purposes of the author of all darkness." (Ensign Nov. 1993, p.43)

"In magazines and books, on CDs and tapes, on our television and theater screens is portrayed more and more often a lifestyle that might even rival the excesses of those who lived in Sodom and Gomorra....One of the great tragedies is that too many [members] are watching and listening to this type of so-called entertainment. Some do it only casually at first. They think they are spiritually strong and will be immune to its influence. This trash is nothing more nor less than pornography dressed in one of its many imitation robes of splendor one of the master counterfeiter’s best products....many do not recognize they are trapped or soon will be....They see this as a form of entertainment that serves as a relief from the troubles of the day. In point of fact and in reality, it is only relieving them of their spirituality and their capacity to draw on the powers of heaven in times of need....no [one] can look at, read about, or listen to such explicit vulgarity, even in its mildest form without bringing sorrow to a loving God and a terrible injury to one’s own spirit....I plead with you to leave it alone. Stay away from any movie, video, publication, or music (regardless of it rating) where illicit behavior and expressions are a part of the action." (Ensign Nov. 1993, p.42-43)

"Any film, television show, music, or printed material unfit for youth is also unfit for parents. Those who rationalize acceptance of immoral material on grounds of maturity or sophistication are deceived." (Ensign May 1991, p. 42)

[Mahonri]

My impression from reading about Joseph Smith is that he was extremely essoteric. Of course, having communed with God as he did how could one help but not be?

I think Joseph would have watched Twilight and congratulated Meyer for her imagination and intellect.

And sometimes I think we fall into the trap that style always conveys the substance of a particular art form. That is why we often allow our stake dances for youth to play songs that are filled with sexual innuendo but, since they are mainstream pop, the chaperones don't get it. Yet if someone tried to play something more in the metal genre they would quickly ask for it to be turned off, even though metal often has a much more positive message than mainstream music (and certainly more wholesome than most country music).

Four examples of songs that probably would not be played at a stake dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSMstXqiv3c An attack on greed, materialism and a call for repentence (not a Christian band but the lead singer is Jewish).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HdGUNm6-qI A very positive treatment of fatherhood and responsibility with heavy Christian symbolism of baptism and new life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4LyKd-Hws Heavy Christian symbolism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZjf9C6atT4 Baptism -- lyrics.

ROFLMBO.....yeah personal insight on Joseph huh....and he would condone wickedness???? have you heard the line about rationalization...

"One of the most critical challenges mankind faces today is to recognize the difference between happiness and mere pleasure. Satan and his forces have become extremely effective in their effort to convince people that pleasure should be the most sought-after objective. He slyly promises that wherever found, pleasure will bring happiness. Our television and movie screens are filled with not-so-subtle messages that encourage and persuade young and old alike to unbridle their passions and they will experience happiness. The results of this reckless course should be so apparent as we watch the tremendous social and psychological costs continue to mount." (Ensign Nov. 1993, p. 82)

"Satan has intensified his efforts to destroy the family by corrupting the youth and robbing childhood of its innocence. Our youth are especially vulnerable as the enemy cunningly utilizes every means at his disposal, including the mass media and changes in constitutional law, to deceive them. He bombards our homes with enticements of destructive and harmful products and morals through television, videos, press, books, etc. We as Latter-day Saints and all good people anywhere must consciously screen what comes into our homes. Parents have the inalienable right and the responsibility to educate their children. No inappropriate outsider should be allowed to dictate our family's values nor what our children are being taught." (Ensign Nov. 1994, p. 23)

"Our Heavenly Father has counseled us as Latter-day Saints to seek after "anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy" (Articles of Faith 1:13). Whatever you read, listen to, or watch makes an impression on you. Public entertainment and the media can provide you with much positive experience. They can uplift and inspire you, teach you good and moral principles, and bring you closer to the beauty this world offers. But they can also make what is wrong and evil look normal, exciting, and acceptable. - For The Strength of Youth

"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don't listen to music that is degrading." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.222)

Consider carefully the words of the prophet Alma to his errant son, Corianton, Forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes. (Alma 39:9) The lusts of your eyes. In our day, what does that expression mean? Movies, television programs and video recordings that are both suggestive and lewd....We counsel you young men [and women] not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive or pornographic. Watch those shows and entertainment that lift the spirit and promote clean thoughts and actions. (Ensign May 1986, p. 45)

"Be clean. I cannot emphasize that enough. Be clean. It is very, very important and you at your age are in such temptation all the time. It is thrown at you on television. It is thrown at you in books and magazines and videos. You do not have to rent them. Don't do it. Just don't do it. Don't look at them. If somebody proposes that you sit around all night watching some of that sleazy stuff, you say, (It¹s not for me. Stay away from it." (Denver Colorado, youth meeting, 14 Apr. 1996, Quote by Elder Joe J. Christensen, Ensign Nov. 1996, p. 40)

"Young men and women, keep yourselves worthy. Stay away from those environments, the music, the films, the videos, the clubs, and the associations that draw you into immoral conduct (see 1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Thes. 5:22; 2 Tim. 2:22; D&C 9:13)

Now, I must speak of another danger, almost unknown in our youth but now everywhere about you. Normal desires and attractions emerge in the teenage years; there is the temptation to experiment, to tamper with the sacred power of procreation. These desires can be intensified, even perverted, by pornography, improper music, or the encouragement from unworthy associations. What would have only been a more or less normal passing phase in establishing gender identity can become implanted and leave you confused, even disturbed.

If you consent, the adversary can take control of your thoughts and lead you carefully toward a habit and to an addiction, convincing you that immoral, unnatural behavior is a fixed part of your nature. "

See "Ye Are the Temple of God" for President Packer's full comments.

"I know it is hard counsel we give when we say movies that are R-rated, and many with PG-13 ratings, are produced by satanic influences. Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system. I repeat, because of what they really represent, these types of movies, music, tapes, etc. serve the purposes of the author of all darkness." (Ensign Nov. 1993, p.43)

"In magazines and books, on CDs and tapes, on our television and theater screens is portrayed more and more often a lifestyle that might even rival the excesses of those who lived in Sodom and Gomorra....One of the great tragedies is that too many [members] are watching and listening to this type of so-called entertainment. Some do it only casually at first. They think they are spiritually strong and will be immune to its influence. This trash is nothing more nor less than pornography dressed in one of its many imitation robes of splendor one of the master counterfeiter’s best products....many do not recognize they are trapped or soon will be....They see this as a form of entertainment that serves as a relief from the troubles of the day. In point of fact and in reality, it is only relieving them of their spirituality and their capacity to draw on the powers of heaven in times of need....no [one] can look at, read about, or listen to such explicit vulgarity, even in its mildest form without bringing sorrow to a loving God and a terrible injury to one’s own spirit....I plead with you to leave it alone. Stay away from any movie, video, publication, or music (regardless of it rating) where illicit behavior and expressions are a part of the action." (Ensign Nov. 1993, p.42-43)

"Any film, television show, music, or printed material unfit for youth is also unfit for parents. Those who rationalize acceptance of immoral material on grounds of maturity or sophistication are deceived." (Ensign May 1991, p. 42)

PERFECT! Thanks Jason

[Fiannan]

OK, so Twilight, rather than being a silly vampire movie with a weak plot, is wicked? Why? Is there lots of sex promoted? No. Violence? A couple of scenes -- no more graphic than one would see on the 1960s Star Trek series and certainly less graphic than most John Wayne movies. Does it promote Atheism? No. Does it encourage people to adopt withcraft? No. So what is so objectionable, that a Mormon lady said she was inspired in what sounds like a lucid dream?

[serenitylala]

OK, so Twilight, rather than being a silly vampire movie with a weak plot, is wicked? Why? Is there lots of sex promoted? No. Violence? A couple of scenes -- no more graphic than one would see on the 1960s Star Trek series and certainly less graphic than most John Wayne movies. Does it promote Atheism? No. Does it encourage people to adopt withcraft? No. So what is so objectionable, that a Mormon lady said she was inspired in what sounds like a lucid dream?

I'm just curious why you are defending it?

The objection arises in the fact that it is a rather violent series, prompting love for beings that engage in well a form of cannibalism. Take for instance the scene where Bella is being escorted by Edward out of the center of vampires while a group of people, elderly, children, women, etc are being led to their deaths. The main characters just walk away as screams erupt behind them.

What moral does that teach teens?

What moral is taught by Bella continuously attempting to commit suicide to get the attention of a boyfriend?

Everything should be judged by its fruits. So considering that, I wonder as to the real source of that lucid dream of hers.

Yet, on the other hand, you are correct that it is not just Twilight: several flicks out there are plumb full of smut and violence. If one just compared the TV that is currently aired to the TV of the 50s-60s, it is easy to see the decline in morals.

[Jason]

OK, so Twilight, rather than being a silly vampire movie with a weak plot, is wicked? Why? Is there lots of sex promoted? No. Violence? A couple of scenes -- no more graphic than one would see on the 1960s Star Trek series and certainly less graphic than most John Wayne movies. Does it promote Atheism? No. Does it encourage people to adopt withcraft? No. So what is so objectionable, that a Mormon lady said she was inspired in what sounds like a lucid dream?

I've already covered that in significant detail as well as many others....

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/5

[Jason]

OK, so Twilight, rather than being a silly vampire movie with a weak plot, is wicked? Why? Is there lots of sex promoted? No. Violence? A couple of scenes -- no more graphic than one would see on the 1960s Star Trek series and certainly less graphic than most John Wayne movies. Does it promote Atheism? No. Does it encourage people to adopt withcraft? No. So what is so objectionable, that a Mormon lady said she was inspired in what sounds like a lucid dream?

I'm just curious why you are defending it?

The objection arises in the fact that it is a rather violent series, prompting love for beings that engage in well a form of cannibalism. Take for instance the scene where Bella is being escorted by Edward out of the center of vampires while a group of people, elderly, children, women, etc are being led to their deaths. The main characters just walk away as screams erupt behind them.

What moral does that teach teens?

What moral is taught by Bella continuously attempting to commit suicide to get the attention of a boyfriend?

Everything should be judged by its fruits. So considering that, I wonder as to the real source of that lucid dream of hers.

Yet, on the other hand, you are correct that it is not just Twilight: several flicks out there are plumb full of smut and violence. If one just compared the TV that is currently aired to the TV of the 50s-60s, it is easy to see the decline in morals.

Not to mention her dream at the conclusion of the series stating that indeed Edward was wicked and didn't stick to the blood of animals....so the whole thing was a charade to try and portray wickedness (vampirism) as good.

[Fiannan]

I'm just curious why you are defending it?

The objection arises in the fact that it is a rather violent series, prompting love for beings that engage in well a form of cannibalism. Take for instance the scene where Bella is being escorted by Edward out of the center of vampires while a group of people, elderly, children, women, etc are being led to their deaths. The main characters just walk away as screams erupt behind them.

What moral does that teach teens?

What moral is taught by Bella continuously attempting to commit suicide to get the attention of a boyfriend?

Everything should be judged by its fruits. So considering that, I wonder as to the real source of that lucid dream of hers.

Yet, on the other hand, you are correct that it is not just Twilight: several flicks out there are plumb full of smut and violence. If one just compared the TV that is currently aired to the TV of the 50s-60s, it is easy to see the decline in morals.

I was watching a documentary about the Warner Brothers the other evening. One of the people featured said that from the 1930s to the 1950s the movies from Hollywood studios that made the movies were owned by Jews, censored by Catholics and watched by Protestants. Sometimes this was good and sometimes it was bad -- I remember listening to some documentary in the past that pointed out that Cecil B. Demile wanted to make his historic epics more realistic, but that the censorship board would never go for it, and that Hitchcock barely got Psycho (a movie inspired by Ed Gein) approved. Of course, the censorship boards did maintain movies a bit less graphic than what was being made in Europe -- until the studios decided to use the idea of a rating system so they could get away with more.

Again, I have not read any of these Twilight books. The scene you describe of a vampire buffet reminds me of the Mormon version of Battlestar Galactica where the heroes of the original film explore the caverns of the Vegas-style planet and find that the insect species has been encasing hundreds of still-living humans in wasp-like nests for the larvae to eat these people alive. Note, the warriors make no attempt to actually save any of these unfortunant living meals. Maybe putting scenes in like this are to make sure you see just how evil the villians are.

And maybe I am defending Meyer because she was able to actually use her creativity to captivate hundreds of millions of people and create a positive image of Mormon women.

[jnjnelson]

I've read all the Twilight (using a spell checker helps immensely) books. I consider the Twilight series to be merely entertainment. In spite of the comments thus far, I can't imagine why anyone would have strong negative opinions about the series, as the basic plot is a typical good vs. evil plot.

<sarcasm>Of course, I must be deceived by the evil intent of the author. Or maybe I'm deceived by the evil intent of that which motivated the author.</sarcasm>

The Twilight books are books of fiction - we should treat them as such. If someone is obsessed with opposing something so trivial, I suggest a change in priorities might be as helpful for them as for those obsessed with the series.

[serenitylala]

I've read all the Twilight (using a spell checker helps immensely) books. I consider the Twilight series to be merely entertainment. In spite of the comments thus far, I can't imagine why anyone would have strong negative opinions about the series, as the basic plot is a typical good vs. evil plot.

<sarcasm>Of course, I must be deceived by the evil intent of the author. Or maybe I'm deceived by the evil intent of that which motivated the author.</sarcasm>

The Twilight books are books of fiction - we should treat them as such. If someone is obsessed with opposing something so trivial, I suggest a change in priorities might be as helpful for them as for those obsessed with the series.

Who says we are in opposition to it? I think it is hilarious that people would fall for something so drastically.

Oh I found this one that you guys might find funny:

http://itthing.com/twilight-almost-cost ... nd-my-life

It's so funny. Warning it is from a married man's perspective and has his anger towards Twilight wrecking his marriage.

So viewer discretion is advised.

Also http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/06/30/twi ... rriage-s/4 has a series of interviews of married women whose relationships have been adversely affected by Twilight. Viewer discretion advised as well.

These both take a look into the sociological affect that Twilight has had on many women nationwide.

Here are a few quotes that I found out there in net space:

The Times found women who have nearly lost their marriages by neglecting their husbands in favor of “Twilight” fan sites, blogs, and message boards. One woman gushes that she’s seen the movies “over 300 times.”

Too much of something is never okay. Whether it's food, sleep or even exercise, overdosing leads to problems. Apparently the same is true for movies. There are loads of folks out there who are diehard Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars fans, but, according to an LA Times article, it's an obsession with The Twilight Saga that's most troublesome. Twilight lovers are sacrificing their relationship for Stephenie Meyer's books and the film adaptations.

The general stereotype pegs teenage girls as being the main source of Twihards when, in fact, there's hoards of Twilight moms and even grandmas out there. One fan, 31-year-old Chrystal Johnson revealed, "My husband finally came to me and said, 'I think you love Twilight more than you love me.'" From there the couple separated and Johnson had to go through some major Twilight detox before being able to rebuild her relationship.

My heck, it is worse than I thought. Self-insertion my rear-end, this is like a porn addiction. Holy psycho Twihard fans.

[Jason]

I've read all the Twilight (using a spell checker helps immensely) books. I consider the Twilight series to be merely entertainment. In spite of the comments thus far, I can't imagine why anyone would have strong negative opinions about the series, as the basic plot is a typical good vs. evil plot.

<sarcasm>Of course, I must be deceived by the evil intent of the author. Or maybe I'm deceived by the evil intent of that which motivated the author.</sarcasm>

The Twilight books are books of fiction - we should treat them as such. If someone is obsessed with opposing something so trivial, I suggest a change in priorities might be as helpful for them as for those obsessed with the series.

....same thing was said of the Harry Potter series....look at what it has done for the Wicca religion....

[Jason]

I've read all the Twilight (using a spell checker helps immensely) books. I consider the Twilight series to be merely entertainment. In spite of the comments thus far, I can't imagine why anyone would have strong negative opinions about the series, as the basic plot is a typical good vs. evil plot.

<sarcasm>Of course, I must be deceived by the evil intent of the author. Or maybe I'm deceived by the evil intent of that which motivated the author.</sarcasm>

The Twilight books are books of fiction - we should treat them as such. If someone is obsessed with opposing something so trivial, I suggest a change in priorities might be as helpful for them as for those obsessed with the series.

....same thing was said of the Harry Potter series....look at what it has done for the Wicca religion....

O’Brien told LifeSiteNews, “Unprecedented cultural phenomena such as the Twilight series, Harry Potter and Phillip Pullman’s Dark Materials series represent a sliding scale of familiarity with evil. It is time for the people of the West to awaken to the fact that we are in the midst of a cultural revolution that is reshaping our understanding of reality itself in powerful ways. It succeeds in this by rewarding us with copious sensual pleasures stimulating the imagination in all the wrong directions.”

"Physical beauty is the glue that holds the whole banal tale together," writes O'Brien. "If one were to dim down the prettiness and subtract the horror from these four novels and their films … they would become no more than mind-numbing Harlequin Romances for very immature teenage girls."

O’Brien, who’s book covers both Twilight and Harry Potter, writes that "The sexual attraction and the appeal to romantic feelings, combined with the allure of mystery all obscure the real horror of the tale, which is the degradation of the image and likeness of God in man, and the false proposal that consuming the lifeblood of another human being bestows life all around."

Quoting E. Michael Jones on the subject, O'Brien notes that Vampirism is the anti-thesis of Christianity, "Both Christ and Dracula deal with blood and eternal life … Whereas Christ shed his blood so that his followers could have eternal life, Dracula shed his followers' blood so that he could have eternal life."

But beyond the evidence in the books, O'Brien points to Meyer's own accounts of the inspiration for her novels to warn of its questionable revelation.

Meyer said she received the main characters in a dream, and that they were "quite literally, voices in my head" as she wrote the novels.

O'Brien also cites author Steve Wohlberg, who drew out the eerie similarities between Rowling's inspiration for Potter and Meyer's for Twilight, both of which began with an unusual dream. "The character of Harry Potter just popped into my head, fully formed," Rowling reflected in 2001. "Looking back, it was all quite spooky!" She also stated to inquiring media that the Potter books "almost wrote themselves."

Writes Wohlberg: "When those mesmerizing tales first burst into the brains of these two women, neither was an established writer. Both were novices. They weren't rich either. Now they are millionaires many times over. Their experiences are similar, with common threads. Both of their novels are permeated with occultism. Based on this, it's appropriate to wonder, is there a supernatural source behind these revelations? If so, what is it?"

O'Brien quotes Meyer for a clue to the answer. "After her unexpected rise to stardom, she later confessed: 'I actually did have a dream after Twilight was finished of Edward coming to visit me - only I had gotten it wrong and he did drink blood like every other vampire and you couldn't live on animals the way I'd written it. We had this conversation and he was terrifying.'"

Twilight's embedded spiritual narrative, O'Brien concludes, is this: "You shall be as gods. You will overcome death on your own terms. You will be master over death. Good and evil are not necessarily what Western civilization has, until now, called good and evil. You will define the meaning of symbols and morals and human identity. And all of this is subsumed in the ultimate message: The image and likeness of God in you can be the image and likeness of a god whose characteristics are satanic, as long as you are a 'basically good person.'"

"In this way, coasting on a tsunami of intoxicating visuals and emotions, the image of supernatural evil is transformed into an image of supernatural good."

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jun/10062912.html

[martinhea]

Just wondering what people's opinions of this "Mormon Vampire" series. Yeah, I know the vampires are not actually church members but they could easily be any young adult group -- well, except for a thirst for blood.

At work today several of my female collegues were almost in rapture over being able to go see the sequel to the original movie. When I mocked the original movie (hey, come on, I grew up with Barnabas Collins -- a manly vampire, not some metrosexual with fangs) one lady immediately said I should not do that since a Mormon created it.

Is this a new form of missionary work? Maybe more Mormons should look into writig novels then. Or perhaps some people think it is a form of occultism and will introduce young people to the darker side as some of my friend's parents said about "Dark Shadows" and would not let them watch it.

Opinions?

The current upsurge in vampire/ demon/ mythology/ witchcraft movies is clearly an attack on young people to blurr the lines of what it means to be pure of heart... Lust barely fulfilled is still lust...and is especially dangerous when it involves a form of blood sacrifice. That's what vampires do... they suck your blood and make you one of them... isn't that what all dark forces want for us... to drain our essence and make us one of them. Sure it's incredibly romantic... he loves her, so much in fact that he goes against his nature and decides not to sacrifice her to his own religion... how noble... My thought is that young people can find little that is real or original in this series and lots that can lead them into accepting what was once unacceptable....

[Jason]

Vampires are in fashion across the United States, encouraged by the hit TV series "True Blood," now in its third season, the "Twilight" movies and "Vampire Diaries." Stories about feeding on blood are greedily consumed and eagerly published.

For a pastime with dark, anti-religious overtones vampire fashion is itself becoming oddly like an organized religion. There are rules, priests, private gatherings and large-scale celebrations.

Hundreds of "vampires" attend balls every few months, with the next vampire ball taking place in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on July 31.

Believers in this sect-like lifestyle range from teenage devotees of Stephenie Meyer's "Twilight" to adults who got hooked on Ann Rice's "Vampire Diaries" in the 1970s.

Rice is the author credited with turning the European model vampire -- exemplified by Dracula, the horrific character at the center of Bram Stoker's 19th century novel set in Transylvania -- into a more user-friendly American version.

In the very un-Transylvanian setting of New Jersey, O'Dalley keeps her apartment well curtained from the sun and decorates with bat motifs.

"It's like a religion. There are houses, and pageants, and clans, and kind of presidents, ministers," she said.

Still, this is an age of kinder, gentler vampires. O'Dalley actually enjoys garlic, the traditional weapon against vampires, and her blood consumption is modest, to say the least.

"Every once in a while I drink blood. I make a prick on my finger and take the blood," she says.

And there's no chance of leaving nasty marks on her neighbors' necks. "We don't bite. That should never be done. Everything should be consensual," she cautions.

"Vampires are not monsters as such, they are more beautiful than the average persons, and they are immortal. It's a dark ideal of mankind. Today they are more like rock stars," Latina said.

The only problem in this thriving vampire environment, Latina says, is that New York has become too clean and law-abiding over the last decade.

The best scene, he says, is in Philadelphia now. "New York is too safe now for vampires."

Sociology professor Robert Thomson, who teaches at University of Syracuse in upstate New York, said "the vampire culture has been around for a long time, long before 'Twilight' and 'True Blood.'"

However, "'Twilight' has completely domesticated it. It got rid of the Eastern European monster."

According to Thomson, vampires are surprisingly marketable. They are "mysterious, dark, very, very attractive and erotic," he said.

"The vampire movement is a style, an attitude, there's a sense of belonging to a community. It can also be a branding."

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0721/vampires-teeth-public/

[serenitylala]

Just wondering what people's opinions of this "Mormon Vampire" series. Yeah, I know the vampires are not actually church members but they could easily be any young adult group -- well, except for a thirst for blood.

At work today several of my female collegues were almost in rapture over being able to go see the sequel to the original movie. When I mocked the original movie (hey, come on, I grew up with Barnabas Collins -- a manly vampire, not some metrosexual with fangs) one lady immediately said I should not do that since a Mormon created it.

Is this a new form of missionary work? Maybe more Mormons should look into writig novels then. Or perhaps some people think it is a form of occultism and will introduce young people to the darker side as some of my friend's parents said about "Dark Shadows" and would not let them watch it.

Opinions?

The current upsurge in vampire/ demon/ mythology/ witchcraft movies is clearly an attack on young people to blurr the lines of what it means to be pure of heart... Lust barely fulfilled is still lust...and is especially dangerous when it involves a form of blood sacrifice. That's what vampires do... they suck your blood and make you one of them... isn't that what all dark forces want for us... to drain our essence and make us one of them. Sure it's incredibly romantic... he loves her, so much in fact that he goes against his nature and decides not to sacrifice her to his own religion... how noble... My thought is that young people can find little that is real or original in this series and lots that can lead them into accepting what was once unacceptable....

To both Martin and Jason: Well said! Well said!

[Rensai]

I've never read twilight, so I can't defend it, but I can talk to the harry potter comments and some generalities. Many of these comments look pretty biased to me. The general anti-twilight / harry potter comments seem to all run to the same vain.

First, these are all vague and judgemental assertions.

Second, Agency. The HP books, may talk about Wiccan themes, but people have their agency. If someone wants to pretend Harry Potter is real and join the Wiccan religion, is the real problem Harry Potter or their own confused mind? Wouldn't they have found something else if HP hadn't been there to latch onto? Let's put this another way. Everyone knows that during the Crusades, and many other times in history, spreading Christianity has been the excuse to commit great evil. Do we blame Christ for that or do we hold the individuals who commit the crimes responsible? If I write a murder mystery and someone uses my idea to murder in the real world, who's fault is that? When do we decide to hold people responsible for their own decisions?

Women who...

The Times found women who have nearly lost their marriages by neglecting their husbands in favor of “Twilight” fan sites, blogs, and message boards. One woman gushes that she’s seen the movies “over 300 times.”

...have no one but themselves to blame their Marital problems on. It's hardly the author's fault if someone chooses to obsess over their book. It's just fiction, for entertainment. By this type of logic, no one should ever write or produce anything, because if some nut jobs obsess over it, you're now serving Satan.

Third, these types of overblown claims and judgements only serve to hurt our credibility as LDS. Literally millions of people have read Twilight and HP (many of which ARE LDS) with no adverse effects, they didn't convert to Wicca or start worshipping Satan etc. Try to keep some perspective on these things. If you're not interested in this type of entertainment, say so, but don't try to blow it out of proportion and make it into some big society destroying plot by Satan. There are enough of those as is, we don't need to fabricate more.

[Jason]

I've never read twilight, so I can't defend it, but I can talk to the harry potter comments and some generalities. Many of these comments look pretty biased to me. The general anti-twilight / harry potter comments seem to all run to the same vain.

First, these are all vague and judgemental assertions.

Second, Agency. The HP books, may talk about Wiccan themes, but people have their agency. If someone wants to pretend Harry Potter is real and join the Wiccan religion, is the real problem Harry Potter or their own confused mind? Wouldn't they have found something else if HP hadn't been there to latch onto? Let's put this another way. Everyone knows that during the Crusades, and many other times in history, spreading Christianity has been the excuse to commit great evil. Do we blame Christ for that or do we hold the individuals who commit the crimes responsible? If I write a murder mystery and someone uses my idea to murder in the real world, who's fault is that? When do we decide to hold people responsible for their own decisions?

Women who...

The Times found women who have nearly lost their marriages by neglecting their husbands in favor of “Twilight” fan sites, blogs, and message boards. One woman gushes that she’s seen the movies “over 300 times.”

...have no one but themselves to blame their Marital problems on. It's hardly the author's fault if someone chooses to obsess over their book. It's just fiction, for entertainment. By this type of logic, no one should ever write or produce anything, because if some nut jobs obsess over it, you're now serving Satan.

Third, these types of overblown claims and judgements only serve to hurt our credibility as LDS. Literally millions of people have read Twilight and HP (many of which ARE LDS) with no adverse effects, they didn't convert to Wicca or start worshipping Satan etc. Try to keep some perspective on these things. If you're not interested in this type of entertainment, say so, but don't try to blow it out of proportion and make it into some big society destroying plot by Satan. There are enough of those as is, we don't need to fabricate more.

Definitely agree with holding people accountable for their own decisions!

What I'm trying to point out is another perspective that appears to be lost on the mainstream....and that's the marketing arm of the devil's works....

Side note: Good book - The Marketing of Evil
http://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Ps ... 1581824599

Is it blowing it out of proportion.....or is it unveiling the works of darkness (as we've been commanded to do)?

How does the devil deceive? So if we only take a little flaxen cord we're okay.....a couple drinks here and there (too bad for the alcoholics that can't seem to stop)? As long as mainstream doesn't take too big of a bit out of the apple its okay?

Will we be held accountable for harmful and destructive marketing to our children (despite the fact they have their own agency)?

In terms of books....members of the twelve and other general authorities are cranking them out left and right. Many many works of fiction cranked out by members.....do they entice to do good or evil? Will the authors be held accountable for the enticement - in either direction?

If I offer you something that is forbidden....you obviously have your agency to accept or reject....but won't I be held accountable for the offering? What if I'm ignorant and don't realize what I'm offering? Am I still held accountable?

Furthermore, certain taste buds of our souls may have been burned over by sin, and our Father desires that we regenerate these by repentance. Our Heavenly Father also desires the development of what are presently the many other neglected taste buds of our souls. These, when they are really developed, will bring even greater happiness and true joy.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

We refer to the three R’s as forming the foundation of our education, and we might think of the three I’s as being responsible for many people missing the celestial kingdom. And someone has said that the three most destructive sins come under this heading. They are ignorance, indecision, and indifference.

These three I’s are particularly dangerous because they are usually regarded as “the little sins.” Yet they undoubtedly cause more people to lose their exaltation in the celestial kingdom than all of the other sins combined. That is, it is not the giant redwoods that trip us up as we walk through the forest; it is the vines and the underbrush. I have heard of very few who stumble over giant redwoods.

The three I’s might appropriately qualify among sins as the big three so far as their total importance is concerned. They might also be fairly synonymous with the condition of not being valiant.
Ignorance

To become a son of perdition, one must sin against great knowledge. That is the sin of the greatest enormity. But the sin of the greatest frequency is ignorance. That is, not to know in the first place. The religion of Jesus has always suffered more from those who did not understand and those who did not care than from those who opposed. It is largely our ignorance that stands between us and our blessings.

Through the prophet Hosea the Lord said, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children” (Hosea 4:6).

The Lord also talked to Isaiah about the sin of ignorance: “Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst” (Isa. 5:13).

Then upon the cross Jesus said, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34). One of the sins of the Romans at the crucifixion of Jesus was the sin of ignorance. As Jesus himself said, they didn’t understand. Pilate didn’t know the real identity or importance of this young peasant carpenter who was standing before him.

But why didn’t he know? There is only one logical answer, and that is that he had not invested the time or the honest effort necessary to find the truth. It was Pilate who asked the great question, “What is truth?” And then, without waiting for the answer, he turned and left the scene. Pilate could have found out who Jesus was and what His doctrines were if he had made an earnest and adequate investigation. For “they never sought in vain who sought the Lord aright.” The Lord said, “seek and ye shall find,” and they only fail to find who fail to seek.

Many of the sins in the world seem to be, in one way or another, the sins of ignorance. This was true in the days of Noah; it was true in the days of Jesus; it is true in our own day. The young man who disobeys the Ten Commandments frequently doesn’t really understand the consequences that will follow. Some sins may be forgiven, but who can forgive us of our ignorance?

There is an old fable that tells of a horse that once ran away from its master. Then the horse repented and returned and said to its master, “I have come back.” The master said, “Yes, you have come back, but the field is unplowed.” It is very difficult after the day is over to repent of lessons not learned and self-improvement not made. To dispel ignorance is one of the great challenges to those who have Church leadership responsibilities.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

Well, isn’t there anything good we can take with us when we go, we may ask? The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the knowledge and intelligence gained here in this life would go with us when we leave.

“And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

“There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

“And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” (D&C 130:19–21.)

This being true, then it would seem that we all should place the pursuit of light and truth, or intelligence, uppermost in our selection of goals, since we may have them eternally. We must seek after enlightenment. Since “the glory of God is intelligence” (D&C 93:36), if we would be like our Heavenly Father, our course is fixed.

Ignorance is expensive; in fact, it is the most expensive commodity we know anything about. Certainly we make many mistakes through ignorance. If it is a violation of a commandment of God which we have never received and thus do not know, then the Lord does not hold us guilty of the sin. “… to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” (James 4:17.) And in Paul’s words, “… where no law is, there is no transgression.” (Rom. 4:15.) But even though we may not be guilty of the sin because of our ignorance, neither can we receive the blessing, which is predicated on obedience, without rendering obedience to that law. Therefore, we are denied the blessing through our ignorance. If it is a traffic law we have violated through ignorance, the penalty assessed us is exactly the same as if we had known. Also, if we stick a finger in an electric light socket, we will receive the same shock, irrespective of our knowledge of electricity. I repeat, ignorance is expensive. Particularly is this true since the Lord has decreed, “It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.” (D&C 131:6.) For surely no man is truly enlightened unless he knows the Lord.

Why is it we are so slow to learn, to receive the light? Is it because the Lord is slow to speak or doesn’t want to be bothered? Not according to his word to James wherein he says he “giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not. …” (James 1:5.)

Then the real problem is in that we receive not the light! “… and here is the condemnation of man,” saith the Lord; “because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

“And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.” (D&C 93:31–32.)

But why do we receive not the light? The Lord tells us why over and over again in the scriptures. Simply stated, the reason we do not learn is because we are not in condition to learn. We are not in condition to receive the light because we are not willing to receive it. We just plain don’t want it. Now most of us would violently disagree with this statement, I am sure. Of course we want light and learning from God, our Heavenly Father. Still, the words of the Lord are true. In speaking of those who would be resurrected from the dead but would not receive a degree of glory, he said:

“And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

“For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.” (D&C 88:32–33.)

Then Cassius’s words to Brutus in Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar apply equally to us. “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings.” We must look to ourselves for the reason for our ignorance.

We are prone to say that we are waiting on the Lord to receive light and truth when, as a matter of fact, the Lord is waiting on us—waiting for us to get into condition so he can reveal the light we seek and so desperately need.

The Lord has well stated our plight. “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men [love] darkness rather than light, because their deeds [are] evil.” (John 3:19.) I repeat: “because their deeds [are] evil.”

Revelation, light, and knowledge come through the power of the Holy Ghost. The words of the Master as recorded in John are expressive. “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” (John 14:26.) And again, “… he [the Holy Ghost] will guide you into all truth … and [shall show] you things to come.” (John 16:13.) In fact, we can neither teach nor learn gospel truths without the Holy Ghost. In this day the Lord has reconfirmed this great truth in these words:

“Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

“Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.

“And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness.

“That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.

“Wherefore, he is possessor of all things; for all things are subject unto him, both in heaven and on the earth, the life and the light, the Spirit and the power, sent forth by the will of the Father through Jesus Christ, his Son.

“But no man is possessor of all things except he be purified and cleansed from all sin.

“And if ye are purified and cleansed from all sin, ye shall ask whatsoever you will in the name of Jesus and it shall be done.” (D&C 50:21–24, 27–29.)

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

[Henmasher]

I've never read twilight, so I can't defend it, but I can talk to the harry potter comments and some generalities. Many of these comments look pretty biased to me. The general anti-twilight / harry potter comments seem to all run to the same vain.

First, these are all vague and judgemental assertions.

Second, Agency. The HP books, may talk about Wiccan themes, but people have their agency. If someone wants to pretend Harry Potter is real and join the Wiccan religion, is the real problem Harry Potter or their own confused mind? Wouldn't they have found something else if HP hadn't been there to latch onto? Let's put this another way. Everyone knows that during the Crusades, and many other times in history, spreading Christianity has been the excuse to commit great evil. Do we blame Christ for that or do we hold the individuals who commit the crimes responsible? If I write a murder mystery and someone uses my idea to murder in the real world, who's fault is that? When do we decide to hold people responsible for their own decisions?

Women who...

The Times found women who have nearly lost their marriages by neglecting their husbands in favor of “Twilight” fan sites, blogs, and message boards. One woman gushes that she’s seen the movies “over 300 times.”

...have no one but themselves to blame their Marital problems on. It's hardly the author's fault if someone chooses to obsess over their book. It's just fiction, for entertainment. By this type of logic, no one should ever write or produce anything, because if some nut jobs obsess over it, you're now serving Satan.

Third, these types of overblown claims and judgements only serve to hurt our credibility as LDS. Literally millions of people have read Twilight and HP (many of which ARE LDS) with no adverse effects, they didn't convert to Wicca or start worshipping Satan etc. Try to keep some perspective on these things. If you're not interested in this type of entertainment, say so, but don't try to blow it out of proportion and make it into some big society destroying plot by Satan. There are enough of those as is, we don't need to fabricate more.

I see your point is the same as saying Big Tobacco is not responsible for lung cancers. More justification of things that are seen to take away the spirit rather than invite it. Unless someone who can defend twilight or Harry Potter will show what parts invite the spirit of revelation into the home? Entertainment should never replace the spirit in the home. Keep in mind that I have found that several of the LDS members I know that are OK with violence think sex scenes are evil. Is this another case of justifying something bad because there is worse out there Don't watch a porno that will chop your spiritual head off but indeed cut away with smaller evils like popular entertainment or violence. The worst part is where it is justified because it has a good theme. Gag

[Rensai]

Good book - The Marketing of Evil
http://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Ps ... 1581824599

Is it blowing it out of proportion.....or is it unveiling the works of darkness (as we've been commanded to do)?

How does the devil deceive? So if we only take a little flaxen cord we're okay.....a couple drinks here and there (too bad for the alcoholics that can't seem to stop)?

I'll consider the book, I haven't read it. But I am very familiar with this type of logic. Taken to this extreme, this logic invariably leads to hypocrisy. I can say the same thing about just about anything. Tell me what you do for entertainment. You like sports? Art? Sports Cars? Boats? etc. I can use the same arguments to show how that might be Satan leading you with a flaxen cord. When do you stop nitpicking everything and live your life? Should we miss life entirely for fear we're taking a little flaxen cord? We've all got some things we enjoy and that's a good thing. We each have to follow the spirit and decide whether it is a flaxen cord for us or just entertainment. It's probably somewhat different for each of us.

[Rensai]

More justification of things that are seen to take away the spirit rather than invite it. Unless someone who can defend twilight or Harry Potter will show what parts invite the spirit of revelation into the home? Entertainment should never replace the spirit in the home. Gag

I could list a number of good themes and such from HP, but I don't think that would help.

If you're able to keep everything that doesn't invite the spirit out of your life I applaud you. You're doing better than me. But I would have to see it to believe it. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a hobby or something that is just for entertainment. If you can do that, then great, but if you are not doing that, then you are a hypocrite for trying to hold those who like twilight to that standard just because you don't happen to like it.

[Jason]

Tell me what you do for entertainment. You like sports? Art? Sports Cars? Boats? etc.

LDS Freedom Forum

[Henmasher]

More justification of things that are seen to take away the spirit rather than invite it. Unless someone who can defend twilight or Harry Potter will show what parts invite the spirit of revelation into the home? Entertainment should never replace the spirit in the home. Gag

I could list a number of good themes and such from HP, but I don't think that would help.

If you're able to keep everything that doesn't invite the spirit out of your life I applaud you. You're doing better than me. But I would have to see it to believe it. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a hobby or something that is just for entertainment. If you can do that, then great, but if you are not doing that, then you are a hypocrite for trying to hold those who like twilight to that standard just because you don't happen to like it.

I do not keep everything out. Never said I did, but we are talking about twilight and how is having a hobby make me a hypocrite? WOW! Here are my hobbies that are not filled with undertones that take away from the spirit:
fishing with my family
boating with my family
gardening with my wife
reading (not twilight)
Hobbies are great and the Lord would advise us to have them to learn and to provide our mind and body with exercise and enjoyment. But He would ask you to not read about Twilight. In fact what does the scriptures say on such a subject? Here is a quick few that come to mind:
D&C 88:118
118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.
D&C 93:36-40
36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.
37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.
38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.
39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.
40 But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth.
Nope...........no reference to twilight
One more in proverbs, don't spend energy on things of no worth.

[Rensai]

I do not keep everything out. Never said I did, but we are talking about twilight and how is having a hobby make me a hypocrite? WOW!

It makes you a hypocrite because you are applying a standard to twilight (someone else's hobby) that you do not apply to your own. Is it fair to make all these dire pronouncements against twilight when you admit that your own hobbies do not invite the spirit?

Here is what you said again:

More justification of things that are seen to take away the spirit rather than invite it. Unless someone who can defend twilight or Harry Potter will show what parts invite the spirit of revelation into the home? Entertainment should never replace the spirit in the home

In other words, only things that invite the spirit are justified. Anything else is not according to your words. Twilight and HP fans must prove that they invite the spirit of revelation or they are evil right? Is that not the very definition of hypocritical to criticize twilight because it doesn't "invite the spirit of revelation" into your home while you admit that many of your own activities do not?

Here are my hobbies that are not filled with undertones that take away from the spirit:

It solely your opinion that twilight takes away from the spirit.

fishing with my family
boating with my family
gardening with my wife
reading (not twilight)

Any of these could take away from the spirit under the right circumstances. Here's an example. I once went fishing with my uncle. His son dropped his brand new, $100+ dollar pole into the lake and lost it. The uncle's fury definitely took away from the spirit. But that wasn't the standard. You said it has to invite the spirit. How do these invite the spirit? They might at times, but they might easily do the reverse.

Hobbies are great and the Lord would advise us to have them to learn and to provide our mind and body with exercise and enjoyment. But He would ask you to not read about Twilight. In fact what does the scriptures say on such a subject? Here is a quick few that come to mind:
D&C 88:118
118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.

Does every book you read meet this standard? Does god expect us to meet this standard with everything? He doesn't say that. I agree this is a good standard, but we often choose less than the best. That does not make twilight evil. You are holding it up to a standard you do not always follow right? What is that if not hypocritical.

One more in proverbs, don't spend energy on things of no worth.

Ahh and you can state with absolute certainty that all your hobbies are things of worth and twilight is not right?

[Rensai]

Tell me what you do for entertainment. You like sports? Art? Sports Cars? Boats? etc.

LDS Freedom Forum

That's too easy. How many times have we seen false doctrine or contention on this forum? Clearly a flaxen cord of Satan.

Look, all I'm trying to say is keep some perspective and be reasonable. I think people are being overly critical here. If twilight and HP don't work for you, that's cool, say so, but skip the overly dramatic hellfire and damnation stuff. It's just entertainment. Many of us enjoy these books and yes, even see many good morals and lessons in such books. HP is full of them as acknowledged by one of the GA's posted in the thread earlier. The dire pronouncements only undermine your credibility with those who enjoy these books.

[moonwhim]

A warning concerning Stephenie Myer's best-seller: Twilight

Seven reasons to shun this vampire tale

Berit Kjos - November 2008



If my goal was to undermine Christianity, incite rebellion against parents, eradicate Biblical values, and spread moral chaos, I would urge teens to read the Twilight series. I would prompt them to immerse their minds and emotions in the dark, emotional whirlpool of sensual occultism. And I wouldn't warn them of the consequences.

Of course, my real goal is the opposite: to expose this assault on Biblical faith and to equip potential readers with information that enables them to resist the temptation to join the collective journey into the mind-changing realm of the occult. The following points show the raging spiritual war that's sure to intensify in the years ahead.

1. VAMPIRES & WEREWOLVES are rooted in pagan cultures around the world. The various historical expressions of these mythical creature were dreaded, blood-thirsty manifestations of evil spirits. Linked to darkness, they were viewed as supernatural creatures of the night. Today's more familiar forms were shaped through folklore, fairy tales, and memorable villains such as Count Dracula. Both were re-imagined in more humanized forms through the Harry Potter books and Anne Rice's popular Vampire Chronicles.

But they're not benign. Bella's passionate love for the mysteriously handsome Edward may be fiction, but the obsession felt by teenage readers who "resonate" with Bella is very real! Young super-fans (Twilighters) identify with her plight, sense her fears, and "feel" her passion. They love the story because it arouses strong, unforgettable emotions -- the kind of enchanting thrills that can best be shared within the peer group, not with parents.

In the process, they also learn to crave the mystical, paranormal stimuli that belong in the forbidden realm God calls evil. Knowing well our human inclinations, He warns us to shun all forms of real or imagined occultism:

"...have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret." Ephesians 5:11-12

"For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols?... Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate,' says the Lord." 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

2. Fantasy and imagination can transform beliefs and values more quickly than reality. Many of our readers defend their love for occult entertainment with this standard justification: "I know the difference between reality and fantasy." But it doesn't matter! Know it or not, persuasive fiction and virtual experience can change minds and plant lasting memories more effectively than actual experience!

Popular fantasies, with their boundless thrills and unforgettable images, bypass logical thinking. Their subtle suggestions face little conscious resistance. Designed to stir feelings and produce strong emotional responses, they create new realities in today's "open" minds! As Harvard Professor Chris Dede, a global leader in the development of education technology programs, wrote, "Sensory immersion helps learners grasp reality through illusion."[4]

But what kind of "reality" will "learners" find through illusion? And how do those illusions shape their lives? These Scriptures give us a clue:

"For as he thinks in his heart, so is he." Proverbs 23:6

"...they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart..." Jeremiah 11:8

"Jesus said, 'You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28

"Do not be deceived. ...he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." Galatians 6:7-8

3. God tells us to "abhor what is evil" and "cling to what is good." (Romans 12:9) When today's youth love the emotional thrills of popular occultism, they are desensitizing their hearts and minds to its evil. They are turning God's truth upside down. And they -- with a little help from the marketing industry -- are already turning America's values upside down. It all fits the plans of our globalist leaders and that old serpent in Genesis.



"You can only have a new society," wrote Marilyn Ferguson in The Aquarian Conspiracy, "if you change the education of the younger generation."[5] That process demands that people reject God's wise boundaries and "abhor" what He calls good. That change is well under way![6]

"You love evil more than good...." Psalm 52:3

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness.... Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:20-21

4. Twilight's feel-good occultism brings "cognitive dissonance." Committed Christians (in contrast to cultural Christians) face a form of mental and moral confusion when confronted with incompatible values. Since Twilight's worldview clashes with Biblical Truth, readers are forced to make a choice: Will they heed home-taught values or the tantalizing message in the books and movie?

Many choose compromise. This moral "dissonance" prompts Christians to modify their values in order to resolve the conflict. After all, they don't want to lose their friends or their group's approval. Yet the only way to God's victory is willingness to take a stand on Truth -- whatever the cost.

"...the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you, be watchful in all things..."" 2 Timothy 4:2-5

5. The consequence of compromise is a new belief system. "These books are so addictive -- kind of like drugs," wrote a visitor. "If they can captivate Christians who should know better, just think what they can do to non-Christian readers."

She is right. Like addicts, Twilighters learn to crave more and more of the same genre -- or something even more shocking and sensational. The only belief system I know of that can support such sensual and spiritual cravings is today's "New Spirituality"[7] rising out of the channeled messages of occult authors like Neale Donald Walsch, Marianne Williamson and Barbara Marx Hubbard. Promoting counterfeit gods and practices in the names of "Abraham," "God" and a false "Jesus," they complement the original lies of the serpent.

Driven by winds of change, the faith and values behind America's success are fading fast. Filling the vacuum is an amoral, power-seeking, thrill-addicted ideology that clashes with everything we have treasured in our nation. No wonder we face social and moral anarchy. But our God still reigns! He continues to be a refuge for those who seek Him!

"... in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.... And from such people turn away!
"...all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned..." 2 Timothy 3:1-14

6. Redefining evil. Few Twilighters see their new passion as evil. After all, Edward is a relatively "good" vampire, isn't he? Though he lusts for Bella's blood, he restrains his craving. Other vampires (and some of the werewolves) in the saga are downright murderous, but he's a good guy! Isn't he? Besides, the story has spawned a noble mission.

According to an article titled "Twilight fan knows it's not just vampires who need blood," college freshman, Kayla Urban, is "obsessed with vampires." She is also a blood donor "fixated on a blood drive" in her county. To her, the blend of "vampire-loving Twilighters and the need for more blood donations seemed a logical match."[8] Hers is a noble mission, as are many collective service projects these days. It all depends on who sets the standards for right and wrong -- God or man! While God's standard is like an anchor in a storm, man's values shift with the winds. For--

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9

Since the beginning, human nature sought alternatives to God and His guidelines. Spiritual deception gave rise to vast occult belief systems and unceasing manipulation by the forces of darkness. Thus pagan sacrifices -- a devastating corruption of God's perfect plan for His people -- became the norm in all parts of the inhabited world. These notes may help explain God's ban on "fellowship with... darkness...[and] idols," including blood-thirsty vampires.[9]

When the blood is drained from man or mammal, life ends. In the Old Testament sacrifice (now replaced by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ), an unblemished lamb died in the place of God's people. Its substitutionary death served as atonement (paid the penalty for sin), bringing redemption. For a limited time, sin had been purged, forgiveness granted, and the sanctified person could joyfully return to God's holy presence.

In contrast, pagan rituals often involved human sacrifices. The demonic forces behind Moloch, Baal and other "gods" would demand human blood. A beating heart might be cut out from a living sacrifice, its blood drained into a bowl offered to the blood-thirsty "god" by those who hoped for future favors. Others would drink human blood to obtain the strength of their victims. (See Modern Missions) The gruesome Hindu goddess Kali -- with her serpent hair, necklace of skulls, and long bloody tongue -- reminds us of man's timeless delight in death, cruelty, serpentine symbols, and the dark forces of evil.

The cold, pale, blood-thirsty vampires of the past were expressions of those captivating forces. Today's more flattering models make them all the more seductive.

Human sacrifice is forbidden in the Bible. In fact, God warned His people repeatedly, "do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life." But His people didn't listen. So when they began to copy the cruel child sacrifices of their pagan neighbors, God "raised up" the armies of Babylon to conquer the land and exile its people. (See Blood and Judgment)

The self-giving death of Jesus Christ (God's holy, "unblemished Lamb") differs radically from those pagan sacrifices. He willingly gave His life as our atonement then rose victoriously from death -- thus trading the old temporary solution to human depravity for an eternal redemption. Freed from sin, believers are joined to Him by His Spirit -- a glorious gift granted to those who love, trust and follow Him!

“I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life... that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life...." Deuteronomy 30:19-20

7. God's way to peace and victory. When we choose to follow His ways, He gives us a heart to love Him, spiritual eyes that can know and love His Word, the comfort of His presence, and a confidence in His constant care -- no matter what happens around us. Twilight's deceptive thrills are worse than worthless when compared to the wonderful riches our Shepherd promises those who will turn their backs to evil and walk with Him.

"Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—think on these things." Philippians 4:6-8



"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act."

[Mahonri]

Tell me what you do for entertainment. You like sports? Art? Sports Cars? Boats? etc.

LDS Freedom Forum

That's too easy. How many times have we seen false doctrine or contention on this forum? Clearly a flaxen cord of Satan.

Look, all I'm trying to say is keep some perspective and be reasonable. I think people are being overly critical here. If twilight and HP don't work for you, that's cool, say so, but skip the overly dramatic hellfire and damnation stuff. It's just entertainment. Many of us enjoy these books and yes, even see many good morals and lessons in such books. HP is full of them as acknowledged by one of the GA's posted in the thread earlier. The dire pronouncements only undermine your credibility with those who enjoy these books.

What isn't considered "just entertainment"? I have heard the same thing about rated R movies and even porn. So because this wasn't rated R, it is now just entertainment? What would be evil if not this? And why would someone else not be able to say the samething about what you list as being evil?

Evil is real, and is disguised in many forms from many different people from many different backgrounds.

Was the exorcist just "entertainment"?