Opinions on Twighlight series.

[ChelC]

Twilight is a fantasy soap opera. Maybe okay for for mature readers, but I don't like that 12 year old girls are so into it. I see no problem with the fantasy side, it's the sexual feelings and relationship drama I don't like.

It's like Titanic, the girls love a love affair with a hero. They did an excellent job of that in Titanic, but I've always wondered, what ever happened to the girl's lifelong husband? As soon as she dies she goes right into the arms of the kid she had sex with that she had known for only a week. Not fair to the husband/father of 60 years. Major flaw. (rant)

Ugh. I hated that too! Plus the completely not necessary nude scene. Could have been a good movie.

There have been a few movies that I've been ticked off about with similar elements (of the life long marriage partner being eclipsed by a short term fling... or the female protagonist marrying the good man but always secretly wanting the bad one - gah!!!). I always seem to be the only one annoyed about it.

[e-eye]

But where have I heard this before????

Excommunicate for twilight? Really? That's probably why you are not the bishop Col. I could see you X'ing half your ward if you could get your hands on them it would be pretty entertaining to watch until I got the boot.

Not half the ward but 5 of the 10 virgins
But everyone I know is reading it and loves it. Yeah well apparently the church has a problem with pornography but hey...maybe twilight is just a gateway drug so legitimize away Why is it so hard to see what leads to the greater problem. I have never seen the requirements of God diminish because the "church was doing it"

Little did I know that the 10 virgins relates directly to the women of the church and twilight. Let's just get rid of them now

Hen I know what you are trying to say and I agree that one thing leads to another I just don't think reading and watching the twilight series is worthy of excomunication. Is it going to help in our salvation - no. If my greatest sin lied in the fact that I watched twilight I would be feeling pretty good about myself spiritualy but as it stands I have a long list of things I need to work on before I crack that egg. Kudos to those of you who are on a higher spiritual plane knowing and following not just simply knowing the truth.

[John Locke]

Oh and iThink, don't criticize Elder Holland. His comments are valid. I'm sure Brigham's comment on fiction needs to be read with temperance; there is a place for fiction, we just shouldn't be obsessed with things that are not real. There are plenty of Apostles/Prophets who have quoted fiction. All kinds of poetry, Shakespeare, Alice in Wonderland, Christmas Carol, etc...

Sounds like you are more loyal to your hobby hatred of trendy books than to the Apostles of Jesus Christ. If not, you wouldn't have criticized Elder Holland for the world to witness.

We have been given a key by which we can measure the words of anyone, and that includes any Apostle at any time. That key is the canon, and last time I checked it was 90 years since anything was added to that, which is a curiosity in it's own right. So if Anyone wants to like a book that was heavily researched in the occult to write, and that fits the youth of an extremely wicked mainstream world like a glove, then They may, but I reserve the right to stick with the principle as outlined in the scriptures, and to reject that garbage. And to put Rowling or Meyer in the same kitchen as Shakespeare and Dickens would be like spreading manure on a chocolate cake. There are plenty of classics to read rather than the trash that is conveniently being churned out by pre-hollywood scripts masked as books. And sir, my allegience is to the truth, and inasmuch as the Apostles, any of them, share the truth, then I am with them, but if they share their opinion or teach a lower road or compromise, then I am not, and my justification for that is as I said: the canon, specifically Jeremiah 35.

John Locke thinks you should re-read shakespeare, if you think you Meyer's offerings are worse, then John Locke knows your truth is something he wants no part in. John Locke thinks you (meaning people in this thread) sound idiotic calling for the ex'ing of this author. John Locke thinks your own pride causes you to kick against the pricks to the point where anything popular automatically becomes "against your will" and thus it must be against Gods will. John Locke encourages you to accept fiction for what it is. John Locke see's youth reading, and that for John Locke seems to be a step in the right direction.

[Henmasher]

But where have I heard this before????

Excommunicate for twilight? Really? That's probably why you are not the bishop Col. I could see you X'ing half your ward if you could get your hands on them it would be pretty entertaining to watch until I got the boot.

Not half the ward but 5 of the 10 virgins
But everyone I know is reading it and loves it. Yeah well apparently the church has a problem with pornography but hey...maybe twilight is just a gateway drug so legitimize away Why is it so hard to see what leads to the greater problem. I have never seen the requirements of God diminish because the "church was doing it"

Little did I know that the 10 virgins relates directly to the women of the church and twilight. Let's just get rid of them now

Hen I know what you are trying to say and I agree that one thing leads to another I just don't think reading and watching the twilight series is worthy of excomunication. Is it going to help in our salvation - no. If my greatest sin lied in the fact that I watched twilight I would be feeling pretty good about myself spiritualy but as it stands I have a long list of things I need to work on before I crack that egg. Kudos to those of you who are on a higher spiritual plane knowing and following not just simply knowing the truth.

I meant this more as a mad comical commentator. I too agree it does not merit excommunication . Maybe it is closer to home for me with a set of in laws that think that stuff is ok for my kids and then openly tell us they would not let their kids. It is like my kids our the test tubes and lets see if it screws them up. No one here is at fault for that but rather myself. I see the problem in a lot of things but I myself fall in the traps. By no way perfect but trying . I must just really hate the rationalizing of it all while then I read doctrines of Salvation and other books that explicity cry for us to toe the line and avoid any evil. Just a scared dad with kids that think these things are cool while complaining when it comes to scripture study time

[ithink]

Oh and iThink, don't criticize Elder Holland. His comments are valid. I'm sure Brigham's comment on fiction needs to be read with temperance; there is a place for fiction, we just shouldn't be obsessed with things that are not real. There are plenty of Apostles/Prophets who have quoted fiction. All kinds of poetry, Shakespeare, Alice in Wonderland, Christmas Carol, etc...

Sounds like you are more loyal to your hobby hatred of trendy books than to the Apostles of Jesus Christ. If not, you wouldn't have criticized Elder Holland for the world to witness.

We have been given a key by which we can measure the words of anyone, and that includes any Apostle at any time. That key is the canon, and last time I checked it was 90 years since anything was added to that, which is a curiosity in it's own right. So if Anyone wants to like a book that was heavily researched in the occult to write, and that fits the youth of an extremely wicked mainstream world like a glove, then They may, but I reserve the right to stick with the principle as outlined in the scriptures, and to reject that garbage. And to put Rowling or Meyer in the same kitchen as Shakespeare and Dickens would be like spreading manure on a chocolate cake. There are plenty of classics to read rather than the trash that is conveniently being churned out by pre-hollywood scripts masked as books. And sir, my allegience is to the truth, and inasmuch as the Apostles, any of them, share the truth, then I am with them, but if they share their opinion or teach a lower road or compromise, then I am not, and my justification for that is as I said: the canon, specifically Jeremiah 35.

John Locke thinks you should re-read shakespeare, if you think you Meyer's offerings are worse, then John Locke knows your truth is something he wants no part in. John Locke thinks you (meaning people in this thread) sound idiotic calling for the ex'ing of this author. John Locke thinks your own pride causes you to kick against the pricks to the point where anything popular automatically becomes "against your will" and thus it must be against Gods will. John Locke encourages you to accept fiction for what it is. John Locke see's youth reading, and that for John Locke seems to be a step in the right direction.

I'm not calling for her x, only that I would if I were bishop. And I'm not against "anything" popular, just some Mormons who are so. And I don't know what "youth" reading is. Reading is reading. We make very little distinction in our home. And sorry but Shakespeare cannot be compared to twilight or potter since the folks in his plays are not our contemporaries, and that is the distinction that disqualifies those pre-movies screenplays from our homes, and secondly, Shakespeare was not Mormon.

[Fiannan]

Should Glen Larson have been criticized since one of the principle characters in the original Battlestar Galactica series was a prostitute?

[John Locke]

I'm not calling for her x, only that I would if I were bishop. And I'm not against "anything" popular, just some Mormons who are so. And I don't know what "youth" reading is. Reading is reading. We make very little distinction in our home. And sorry but Shakespeare cannot be compared to twilight or potter since the folks in his plays are not our contemporaries, and that is the distinction that disqualifies those pre-movies screenplays from our homes, and secondly, Shakespeare was not Mormon.

John Locke is glad he was not raised in your house. John Locke delights in liberty, and sound logic judgments. John Locke finds a message's relevance in what is said not when it is said. John Locke hopes you and your book burning family all the best .......John Locke hopes you take that as the joke it was intended

[ithink]

I'm not calling for her x, only that I would if I were bishop. And I'm not against "anything" popular, just some Mormons who are so. And I don't know what "youth" reading is. Reading is reading. We make very little distinction in our home. And sorry but Shakespeare cannot be compared to twilight or potter since the folks in his plays are not our contemporaries, and that is the distinction that disqualifies those pre-movies screenplays from our homes, and secondly, Shakespeare was not Mormon.

John Locke is glad he was not raised in your house. John Locke delights in liberty, and sound logic judgments. John Locke finds a message's relevance in what is said not when it is said. John Locke hopes you and your book burning family all the best .......John Locke hopes you take that as the joke it was intended

Really? We have a 15 year old who is having trouble finding a book to read. We have over 300 classics in the house, and if you stand in front of a bookshelf, we have trouble finding one he hasn't read. And you're glad? But rest assured Mr. Locked Logic, that our kids don't read trash because we say it is trash, we describe the content as any good parent should, but the decision is ultimately theirs. And do they read the trash? They choose not to. And when the movies for those pre-screenplay money generators come out, that becomes a pretty easy decision for them too. Trashy novels are a dime a dozen. Potter and Twilight included. No go read Moby Dick if you dare, and see if you can find one page from either of those fire starters that compares to one from Melville's.

[ithink]

Should Glen Larson have been criticized since one of the principle characters in the original Battlestar Galactica series was a prostitute?

Should Shakespeare be criticized because there is a prostitute in Timon of Athens? There is murder in others. There is sex in others. But why then would we allow our kids read Shakespeare? And what about the Bible? There is sex in there. So what is the difference? Do you see what I am talking about?

[Mahonri]

It's a story of pedophilia masked in the cloak of vampirism. Sounds very uplifting.

[Henmasher]

It's a story of pedophilia masked in the cloak of vampirism. Sounds very uplifting.

Exactly. Thanks Mahonri, since we live in a world of justification, a blunt statement was very much needed.

[Fiannan]

Should Glen Larson have been criticized since one of the principle characters in the original Battlestar Galactica series was a prostitute?

Should Shakespeare be criticized because there is a prostitute in Timon of Athens? There is murder in others. There is sex in others. But why then would we allow our kids read Shakespeare? And what about the Bible? There is sex in there. So what is the difference? Do you see what I am talking about?

Not to mention Nephites raping Lamanite women and then ritualistically cannibalizing them for dinner (it's in Moroni).

And Henmasher, the Edward guy is like 108 years old. What I love is that Freud would have a field day on this movie. Its appeal proves he was right about taboo, death instinct and the power of primitive instincts. Yet it does promote abstinence, even though it does it through making chastity into a fetish.
Again, I challenge LDS people to take a shot at writing. We need more positive role models out there for others to see.

[Jason]

Should Glen Larson have been criticized since one of the principle characters in the original Battlestar Galactica series was a prostitute?

Should Shakespeare be criticized because there is a prostitute in Timon of Athens? There is murder in others. There is sex in others. But why then would we allow our kids read Shakespeare? And what about the Bible? There is sex in there. So what is the difference? Do you see what I am talking about?

Not to mention Nephites raping Lamanite women and then ritualistically cannibalizing them for dinner (it's in Moroni).

And Henmasher, the Edward guy is like 108 years old. What I love is that Freud would have a field day on this movie. Its appeal proves he was right about taboo, death instinct and the power of primitive instincts. Yet it does promote abstinence, even though it does it through making chastity into a fetish.
Again, I challenge LDS people to take a shot at writing. We need more positive role models out there for others to see.

Whizzzzz.....right over the head! I don't think the difference was noted. Might have to spell out the difference between Meyers tantalization and titillation and the story of Lot and his daughters.....or the Nephites raping Lamanite women...or vice versa.

[Fiannan]

Almost all novels and movies have a romantic undercurrent. Even the spinsterish Pride and Prejudice have an undercurrent of repressed longings. If you want a book to be published you have to include some sort of romance.

[Jason]

If you want a book to be published you have to include some sort of romance.

And if you want a book to be published in a very wicked world......

[Henmasher]

If you want a book to be published you have to include some sort of romance.

And if you want a book to be published in a very wicked world......

I can think of one book that was done so by consecration of worldy possessions to pay for the printing

[Mahonri]

And if you want a book to be published in a very wicked world......

you make it about pedophilia under the guise of vampirism.

This is so clearly a book/movie inspired by the evil one, it isn't even funny. It's disgusting we are even having this discussion.

[Henmasher]

Almost all novels and movies have a romantic undercurrent. Even the spinsterish Pride and Prejudice have an undercurrent of repressed longings. If you want a book to be published you have to include some sort of romance.

I can list several books that have no romantic undertones that were published.
Book of Mormon
Doctrines of Salvation
Claim the blessings of the Holy Temple
Hearing the Voice of the Lord
Jesus the Christ
The Three Pillars of Zion
Unless your intent was to describe books that have worldly appeal you are mistaken.
Who is it that sanctions Pride and Prejudice as acceptable reading for Latter Day Saints?

[NamasteMama]

Everything we watch and view has an effect on our spirits. You can bet your bottom dollar if it came form Hollywood it is not of good report. I believe that is why society is so desensitized today. They see so much on movies and video games that they think that stuff thats bad is normal. 30 years ago people would be rioting in the streets over what the government is doing, the BP oilspill, etc. Now they sit quietly in their armchairs waiting for the next football game, the next "twilight" movie, what ever next cheap thrill they can get. How do you think they got this way? The dumbing down of America through books, tv, movies, video games, music, education, etc. If you can not see how important, espessially now, it is to gaurd and protect your spirits from everything then hope just may be lost. This why so many will apostize, because those seeds of doubt have been planted in their minds, even with out them even knowing. Be very wary about what you allow to be permently engrained in your minds. When you die, your memories are the only thing you take with you.

[Mahonri]

The book was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the first movie. A thousand times better. I haven't seen New Moon yet, but I hear it better quality than the first movie. I do think many times we will find exactly what we're looking for. If we are just looking critically at the Twilight series to see Satanism, occultism, the dark side, or what ever, that's exactly what we'll find. If we are looking to gain positive messages from the story I believe we'll find those also. Just depends on what you're looking for.

That's right, blame anything but the content. It's all your fault for what you see in any film right. If all you want to see in porn is immorality, that is all you are going to see. If want to gain a positive message from the story you'll find it right?

No wonder we are in the trouble we are in.

[serenitylala]

The script of Twilight is an easy draw for women, because it is the manifest romance novel where the female character is such a blank personality that most women can insert themselves into the part. For instance, Bella Swan is a literary Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue is a character that has:
1. A name that is either a noun or verb and is different from those around them, such as Heaven, Blossum, or Bella Swan (Pretty Swan).
2. More than two characters fall in love with them.
3. Have an ability that no one else has that sets them apart as special. "Bella's ability to not be affected by vampire powers."
4. Are talked about as being beautiful or of unusual worth by most characters around them.
5. Is spared by people that would otherwise be seen as villains or would otherwise kill someone at the drop of a hat.

Telltale signs of a Mary Sue include:

Her name is....
* Names that are overused or meant to describe an appearance or object in connection with the character - Raven, Luna, Anya, Felina....
* Names that are a combination of the above characteristics - Enoby Darkness Wray

Common Traits
* Speshul magik powers (even in fanons or games where magic doesn’t exist) and/or unusual appendages such as wings.
* Ability to master anything with ease.
* Cute baby version of an imaginary creature for a pet (baby ancient dragon, baby griffon, baby unicorn, baby great Cthulhu, baby goatse)
* The ability to make male canon (and original) characters fall instantly in love with them. Or, failing that, just simply having the author play god to force the story to bend for them.
o Is written as attractive or attracted to some canon character.
* Sparkles where there shouldn't be sparkles.
* Purple prose or badly-written prose
* No actual flaws.
o Being "too beautiful" or "not being able to play the banjo" are not flaws.
* Obvious author self-insertion

TL;DR: A "perfect" character that supercedes everybody in looks, personality, etc.

Mary Sues are very tempting to housewives and teenage girls for self-insertion. It is very "tempting" to want to be seen as the most beautiful, most talked about, and most protected person.

Also, Edward is technically a male version of the Mary Sue...called a Marty Stue or Gary Stue. Some men that, heaven-forbid, like the Twilight series are tempted by the mysterious and dark nature of being Edward.

In addition to that, another psychological temptation of the Twilight series is the fact that a being that is supposed to be evil is in love with and protecting the main girl. It is the mystery of the bad-boy boyfriend.

So the main girl (self-insertion) is singled out as to be protected by what would otherwise kill anyone else. So she becomes extra special: the viewers get the mystery of the bad boy, and the security of the knight in "shining" armor so to speak. Big temptation to live out one's fantasies.


Personally, I must admit that I lasted through 1 and 1/2 of the movies before I thought about gagging myself to death.

One, I don't like Vampires. I think all vampires should be staked and locked in coffins. I'm not interested in blood-sucking fiends from the underworld. In two words: Ewe, gross.

Two, from a literary perspective, it was poorly done. No offense to the writer; it just wasn't my taste for good literary work.

Three, Meyers' version of vampires remind me too much of the stories from the apocryphal Book of Enoch about the Watchers (Egregori). The so-called fallen "shining ones" that went after mortal women. No joke, Watchers are referred to in several ancient legends as being the "shining ones."

Hebrew ben ha-elohim, ‘sons of the shining ones’.
Hebrew Anakim means Shining ones or those of Anak the shining one
Old Irish Aillil means shining
Babylonian Ellu is to shine
Inca Illa is bright or to shine
Sumerian Ari means shining ones.

Whether or not the legends are true... it still bothered me, especially when I heard how she came up with the idea: She had a dream about a shining immortal that falls in love with a mortal girl. Okay, one word: Creepy.

So for me, it was a story about a Watcher and a girl getting together. Not my type of movie at all.

[Fiannan]

serenitylala gives a great analysis of what appeals to women -- and I tend to agree. So...any aspiring authors on this forum that can create a book?

How about a book about a young Mormon female graduate student who does her master's thesis on the New World Order. She eventually meets an older non-member who is a liberal congressman as well as a member of the CFR. She eventually converts him and then the government targets him for erasure....you fill in the rest of the story.

Writing can be fun and heck, if you want to create a book about a missionary bitten by a vampire, or a book about an LDS seriel killer inspired by the Danites who lives on the streets and targets evil people then go for it. Imagination can be a wonderful thing.

[Jason]

Imagination can be a wonderful thing.

Can be detrimental and get yourself in a whole lot of hot water also......

[serenitylala]

Imagination can be a wonderful thing.

Can be detrimental and get yourself in a whole lot of hot water also......

Well, our current government believes that "imagining" anything different than that Obama and his ideas are "supreme" is detrimental to American society.

I think Hitler would be very proud of the Obama administration's take on "imagination."

Sorry, I know. Wrong thread for that.

How about I add: the Twilight series is a conspiracy to get teenagers to use busloads of sunblock and to eat medium-rare meat.

Or better yet, it is a conspiracy to get average housewives to drool after teenage-looking boys that are hundreds of years older then them... as in: 'Hey, he's 500 years old; who cares if he looks 12.'

[Fiannan]

My impression from reading about Joseph Smith is that he was extremely essoteric. Of course, having communed with God as he did how could one help but not be?

I think Joseph would have watched Twilight and congratulated Meyer for her imagination and intellect.

And sometimes I think we fall into the trap that style always conveys the substance of a particular art form. That is why we often allow our stake dances for youth to play songs that are filled with sexual innuendo but, since they are mainstream pop, the chaperones don't get it. Yet if someone tried to play something more in the metal genre they would quickly ask for it to be turned off, even though metal often has a much more positive message than mainstream music (and certainly more wholesome than most country music).

Four examples of songs that probably would not be played at a stake dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSMstXqiv3c An attack on greed, materialism and a call for repentence (not a Christian band but the lead singer is Jewish).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HdGUNm6-qI A very positive treatment of fatherhood and responsibility with heavy Christian symbolism of baptism and new life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4LyKd-Hws Heavy Christian symbolism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZjf9C6atT4 Baptism -- lyrics.