Opinions on Twighlight series.

[e-eye]

That's too easy. How many times have we seen false doctrine or contention on this forum? Clearly a flaxen cord of Satan.

Look, all I'm trying to say is keep some perspective and be reasonable. I think people are being overly critical here. If twilight and HP don't work for you, that's cool, say so, but skip the overly dramatic hellfire and damnation stuff. It's just entertainment. Many of us enjoy these books and yes, even see many good morals and lessons in such books. HP is full of them as acknowledged by one of the GA's posted in the thread earlier. The dire pronouncements only undermine your credibility with those who enjoy these books.

What isn't considered "just entertainment"? I have heard the same thing about rated R movies and even porn. So because this wasn't rated R, it is now just entertainment? What would be evil if not this? And why would someone else not be able to say the samething about what you list as being evil?

Evil is real, and is disguised in many forms from many different people from many different backgrounds.

Was the exorcist just "entertainment"?

Evil is evil I find a lot of good things here and a lot of what I would consider not good so I guess you could categorize this forum into evil if you wanted to. I think the case that is being made is it doesn't warrant someone deserving their records removed from the church by watching it. I doubt those who watch twilight are in jepordy of losing their salvation. I am just wondering those who are calling twilight soooo evil if you have actually watched it or if you are just going off what you have heard?

[Mahonri]

That's too easy. How many times have we seen false doctrine or contention on this forum? Clearly a flaxen cord of Satan.

Look, all I'm trying to say is keep some perspective and be reasonable. I think people are being overly critical here. If twilight and HP don't work for you, that's cool, say so, but skip the overly dramatic hellfire and damnation stuff. It's just entertainment. Many of us enjoy these books and yes, even see many good morals and lessons in such books. HP is full of them as acknowledged by one of the GA's posted in the thread earlier. The dire pronouncements only undermine your credibility with those who enjoy these books.

What isn't considered "just entertainment"? I have heard the same thing about rated R movies and even porn. So because this wasn't rated R, it is now just entertainment? What would be evil if not this? And why would someone else not be able to say the samething about what you list as being evil?

Evil is real, and is disguised in many forms from many different people from many different backgrounds.

Was the exorcist just "entertainment"?

Evil is evil I find a lot of good things here and a lot of what I would consider not good so I guess you could categorize this forum into evil if you wanted to. I think the case that is being made is it doesn't warrant someone deserving their records removed from the church by watching it. I doubt those who watch twilight are in jepordy of losing their salvation. I am just wondering those who are calling twilight soooo evil if you have actually watched it or if you are just going off what you have heard?

Let's go watch some porn so we can be authoirzed to say it is evil

Does it have to be a Temple question before it jeopardizes are ability to progress?

Does it help or hurt the ability to bring in the Holy Ghost?

Is Vampiric pedophilia lovely or praise worthy or of good report?

[e-eye]

Let's go watch some porn so we can be authoirzed to say it is evil

Does it have to be a Temple question before it jeopardizes are ability to progress?

Does it help or hurt the ability to bring in the Holy Ghost?

Is Vampiric pedophilia lovely or praise worthy or of good report?

Ah okay so apparantly you believe twilight has porn in it. Now I understand where you are coming from.

You are arguing a different point I like REnsai are just saying it's not worthy of calling S. Meyer the devil for writing the books and excomunicating those who have watched it. Is it wholesome "not in my book" I have never claimed it was I just said it does not compare to murder, or infidelity but that is just me I found the movie to be lame but that is just the guy in me. I will admit to watching the office and laughing way to much and I find that show far worse than what Twilight brought to the table. Hey but we are all on different levels.

[Jason]

Tell me what you do for entertainment. You like sports? Art? Sports Cars? Boats? etc.

LDS Freedom Forum

That's too easy. How many times have we seen false doctrine or contention on this forum? Clearly a flaxen cord of Satan.

Look, all I'm trying to say is keep some perspective and be reasonable. I think people are being overly critical here. If twilight and HP don't work for you, that's cool, say so, but skip the overly dramatic hellfire and damnation stuff. It's just entertainment. Many of us enjoy these books and yes, even see many good morals and lessons in such books. HP is full of them as acknowledged by one of the GA's posted in the thread earlier. The dire pronouncements only undermine your credibility with those who enjoy these books.

Goes both ways ya know....nothing is stopping anybody from reading twilight or watching the movies.....just pointing out some angles that may have not been considered. I know a few people who wish they'd never let their kids tie into the Harry Potter series.....

[Hyrcanus]

I'm definitely in the camp of people that think people waste alot of time on "just entertainment" that they could be spending on things that are both uplifting and entertaining. So I'm not a particularly big fan of all the garbage that gets spewed out of the "media" at large.

On the other side of the coin though, in our last ward we had a lady get up to denounce Harry Potter as a promotion of witchcraft, and she ended up rolling in Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia as promoting witchcraft as well. If she only had a light familiarity with any of the series, I could see how she would relate them. Anyone with a deeper knowledge of LotR or CoN has to laugh when someone says they're promoting satanic elements, when they were both written specifically to be Christian allegories that would still have broad appeal. With that in mind, I think we have to be careful about pointing the proverbial finger at books we don't care for. I don't intend that as a specific defense against Twilight or Harry Potter, just a general point about the direction the conversation is trending.

[Mahonri]

Ezra Taft Benson, “Satan’s Thrust—Youth,” Ensign, Dec 1971, 53


It has been well said that “there comes a time when the general defilement of a society becomes so great that the rising generation is put under undue pressure and cannot be said to have a fair choice between the Way of Light and the Way of Darkness.” (Hugh Nibley, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 1957.)

We live in a wicked world. Never in our memory have the forces of evil been arrayed in such deadly formation. The devil is well organized. Never in our day has he had so many emissaries working for him. Through his many agents, his satanic majesty has proclaimed his intentions to destroy one whole generation of our choice young people.

Evidence of the dastardly work of evil forces is increasingly evident. On every side we see the sad and heart-rending results. The devil-inspired destructive forces are present in our literature, in our art, in the movies, on the radio, in our dress, in our dances, on the TV screen, and even in our modern, so-called popular music. Satan uses many tools to weaken and destroy the home and family and especially our young people. Today, as never before, it seems the devil’s thrust is directed at our youth.

A letter from a concerned father about the evil effects of some popular music is one of many. I quote from this well-informed teacher of youth:

“Music creates atmosphere. Atmosphere creates environment. Environment influences behavior. What are the mechanics of this process?

“Rhythm is the most physical element in music. It is the only element in music that can exist in bodily movement without benefit of sound. A mind dulled by drugs or alcohol can still respond to the beat.

“Loudness adds to muddling the mind. Sound magnified to the threshold of pain is of such physical violence as to block the higher processes of thought and reason. (And turning down the volume of this destructive music does not remove the other evils.) …

“Repetition to the extreme is another primitive rock device. …

“Gyrations, a twin to rock rhythm, are such that even clean hands and a pure heart cannot misinterpret their insinuations …

“Darkness [and dimmed lights] is another facet of the rock scene. It is a black mass that deadens the conscience in a mask of anonymity. Identity lost in darkness shrinks from the normal feelings of responsibility.

“Strobe lights split the darkness in blinding shafts that reduce resistance like the lights of an interrogator’s third degree or the swinging pendulum of the hypnotist who would control your behavior. …

“The whole psychedelic design [this father continues] is a swinging door to drugs, sex, rebellion, and Godlessness. Combined with the screaming obscenities of the lyrics, this mesmerizing music has borne the fruit of filth. Leaders of the rock society readily proclaim their degeneracy. …

“And the most diabolical deceit of this infamy is that it denies evil to be an absolute. Our religion is one of absolutes and cannot be rationalized into a relativistic philosophy of the ‘liberal Mormons.’ We cannot safely rationalize away righteousness.

“What could be more misguided than fear that ‘if rock music were not endorsed by our leaders, we may lose many young people.’ (MIA music committee.) Even now we are losing them to the songs of Satan, drugs, sex, riot, and apostasy. We could be well reminded by a message from the Mormon Miracle pageant: ‘Moroni knew that you cannot compromise with evil. If you do, evil always wins.’ ” (Richard Nibley, excerpts from letter.)

This letter from a father, teacher of youth, and member of a college music department, although analytical, expresses the concern of many other parents and youth leaders.

The Church must not compromise standards before popular demands. Surely tobacco, coffee, and alcohol users have been alienated by uncompromising standards as much as today’s rocking miniskirts.

Never has the Church had a finer group of young people. They are choice spirits—sent to earth in this most challenging and important period of the world. Charged with the great responsibility of building up the kingdom of God on earth, they have an awesome challenge.

This great and momentous responsibility and challenge comes at a most difficult time. Never have the forces of evil been so insidious, widespread, and enticing. Everywhere there seems to be a cheapening, weakening, downgrading of all that is fine, good, and uplifting—all aimed at our youth while many of their parents are lulled away into a false security as they enjoy their comfortable complacency.

All is not well in Zion. The inspired Book of Mormon prophets saw this day and, as watchmen on the towers, issued grave warnings. I quote:

“For behold, at that day shall he [the devil] rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.

“And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

“And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance. …

“Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!

“Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

“Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!” (2 Ne. 28:20–22, 24–26.)

The Lord, through a modern prophet, has given us a solemn charge:

“Verily I say unto you all: Arise and shine forth, that thy light may be a standard for the nations.” (D&C 115:5.)

“For Zion must increase in beauty, and in holiness; her borders must be enlarged; her stakes must be strengthened; yea, verily I say unto you, Zion must arise and put on her beautiful garments.” (D&C 82:14.)

“Wherefore, lift up your hearts and rejoice, and gird up your loins, and take upon you my whole armor, that ye may be able to withstand the evil day, having done all, that ye may be able to stand.” (D&C 27:15.)

We love the youth of the Church and we know the Lord loves them. There isn’t anything the Church wouldn’t do that’s right to help our young people—to save them. They are our future. We have faith in them. We want them to be happy. We want them to be successful in their chosen fields. We want them to be exalted in the celestial kingdom.

We say to them, you are eternal beings. Life is eternal. You cannot do wrong and feel right. It pays to live the good, wholesome, joy-filled life. Live so you will have no serious regrets—no heartaches. Live so you can reach out and tap that unseen Power, without which no man or woman can do their best.

There must needs be opposition in all things. Freedom of choice is a God-given eternal principle. To escape Satan’s snares and booby traps by following the Lord is our assignment. It is not an easy one.

Using life as a laboratory, we can observe and study the lives of others as we might through a microscope. Observe that the man of God is a happy man. The hedonist, who proclaims “Do your thing,” who lives for sinful, so-called pleasure, is never happy. Behind his mask of mock gaiety lurks the inevitable tragedy of eternal death. Haunted by its black shadow, he trades the useful, happy life for the bleak forgetfulness of drugs, alcohol, sex, and rock.

A study of Satan’s methods can alert us to his seductions. In his cunning he knows where and how to strike. It is in youth when his victims are most vulnerable. Youth is the springtime of life when all things are new. Youth is the spirit of adventure and awakening. It is a time of physical emerging when the body can attain the vigor and good health that may scorn the caution of temperance. Youth is a time of timelessness when the horizons of age often seem too distant to be noticed. Thus, the “now” generation forgets that the present will soon be the past that looks to a life left in waste or a past rich in works. These are the ingredients in youth that make Satan’s plan of “play now and pay later” so irresistible. Yes, the devil uses many tools.

“A state of confusion is an effective environment for Satan. There is much confusion today. He employs several methods to create it. One is the distortion of definitions. To describe a drug experience he uses the term ‘mind expanding’ rather than the more accurate description of ‘reality shrinking.’

“Freedom, a word of noble tradition, is a favorite confuser. Riots, bombings, arson, and killings are committed in the name of freedom. Obscenities test the freedom of speech. Pornography, drugs, and immorality are claimed to be manifestations of personal freedom, along with miniskirts and nudity. License and anarchy are products of these false freedoms.

“A confusion of definitions includes pornography. A child can identify it, yet some of the supposedly great legal minds of our time cannot define it.

“Tolerance is a word valuable in the service of Satan. Alexander Pope warned 200 years ago that:

“ ‘Vice is a monster of so frightful mien
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
We first endure, then pity, then embrace.’
“An Essay on Man.”
“Ridicule works well in collaboration with confusion. To confuse youth in its searching years, the cynic defends his degeneracy by ridiculing his critics with confusing metaphors. The words of the rock recording ‘I Couldn’t Get High,’ then ‘High on the Mountain Top’ must be stricken from our songbooks. Scoffing in this manner may bring an easy laugh and a reassurance that all is well in Zion, but it is diabolically dishonest.

“The philosophy of relativism attacks the eternal principles of truth. The relativist will say, ‘If one sees filthy implications in a popular song, it is because he has a dirty mind.’ The logic of this philosophy finds its fallacy in the word implications. No filth is implied in many of the lyrics. It is proclaimed.

“If there are any doubts as to the insidious evil of rock, you can judge by its fruits. The well-publicized perversions of its practitioners alone are enough to condemn its influence. Its ultimate achievement is that contemporary phenomenon, the mammoth rock music festival. As these diseased celebrations mount into the hundreds, they infect youth by the hundreds of thousands. And where is there today a rock festival that is not also a drug festival, a sex festival, and a rebellion festival?” (Richard Nibley.)

The Spirit of the Lord blesses that which edifies and leads men to Christ. Would his Spirit bless with its presence these festering festivals of human degradation cured in LSD, marijuana, and Speed? Would he be pleased by the vulgar display of unashamed nudity and immorality? The speech of the rock festival is often obscene. Its music, crushing the sensibilities in a din of primitive idolatry, is in glorification of the physical to the debasement of the spirit. In the long panorama of man’s history, these youthful rock music festivals are among Satan’s greatest successes. The legendary orgies of Greece and Rome cannot compare to the monumental obscenities found in these cesspools of drugs, immorality, rebellion, and pornophonic sound. The famed Woodstock festival was a gigantic manifestation of a sick nation. Yet the lurid movie and rock recordings of its unprecedented filth were big business in our own mountain home.

The Lord said, “For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the song of the righteous is a prayer unto me. …” (D&C 25:12.) It was pleasing unto the Lord where in Third Nephi in the great Book of Mormon we read: “… they did break forth, all as one, in singing, and praising their God. …” (3 Ne. 4:31.) It was pleasing unto Satan when in First Nephi, Lehi’s children and the “sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness. …” (1 Ne. 18:9.)

And now a music scholar points to “a new direction in the rock-drug culture [which is] hailed by many ministers and the music industry as a silver lining in the clouds of gold. Religious rock is climbing up the ‘Top Ten’ charts. The growing resistance to the rock-drug scene is being diverted by this wholesome-appearing retreat from the new morality. But a review of religious rock materials unmasks an insidiously disguised anti-Christ. By reducing revealed religion to mythology, rock assumes the mantle of righteousness while rejecting the reality of sin. Without sin the new morality can continue in its Godless revel behind the pretense of religious robes. By reversing the roles of Jesus and Judas, one fast-selling album fits perfectly the warning of Isaiah [Isa. 5:20]: ‘Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness.’ ” (Richard Nibley.)

Little wonder that the leadership of the Church felt impelled to speak out against this sacrilegious, apostate deception by calling this wickedness to the attention of the members of the Church in a special item in the Church Priesthood Bulletin of August 1971.

Yes, we live in the best of times when the restored gospel of Jesus Christ brings hope to all the world. And the worst of times, for Satan is raging. With relentless vigor he plunges in the harvest.

How can we thwart his designs? The MIA scriptural recitation for last year gives us a pattern to follow. The Thirteenth Article of Faith of the Church contains an important key: “… If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” [A of F 1:13]

But will we really seek? To seek requires effort.

The record bins that beckon our young people with their colorful and often off-color jackets bury many masterworks that are virtuous or lovely under a vast bulk of crass commercialism.

The magnetism of TV and radio is in the accessibility of their mediocrity. Lovely is not an adjective to describe most of their products. The inventors of these wonders were inspired by the Lord. But once their good works were introduced to the world, the powers of darkness began to employ them for our destruction. In each medium—the phonograph, motion pictures, radio, and television—the evolution of decline from the inventor’s intentions can be easily traced.

May I quote from a musician who for many years has observed the influence of music on behavior:

“Satan knows that music hath charms to soothe or stir the savage beast. That music has power to create atmosphere has been known before the beginning of Hollywood. Atmosphere creates environment, and environment influences behavior—the behavior of Babylon or of Enoch.

“Parents who retch at the radio and records reverberating in psychedelic revolt would do well to inventory their own record collection before complaining. If it is small, undiversified, and unused, the complaint must rest on the parent. Seeds of culture are best sown in the fertile ground of infant imitation. No amount of criticizing in the teen years can substitute for the young years of example that are lost. A parent who lost his chance to be a hero-image left a gap for a teen hero.” (Richard Nibley.)

Most of these heroes that are being glamorized today are no longer noble, accomplished, humble, or righteous. From reports in books, magazines, and newspapers—especially the youth sections—we learn that they are lewd, obscene, immoral, avaricious, and in some cases even cruel. It is the very life-style we are here to avoid that is paraded before our young people by their celebrated peers. To deflect the admiration of youth from these examples of the ugly life, we must start young. The care and feeding of children must include equal concern for their emotional lives as well as their physical, spiritual, and intellectual lives.

For young people to be in the world but not of the world has never been more difficult than today. But this burden must be shared by the parents. The family home evening is an important barrier to the works of Satan. The MIA program must protect our youth against every evil influence and should fill a vacuum left by rejecting worldly enticements. And, of course, a great panacea for all problems and personal doubts: prayer—private and family prayer, night and morning.

The critical and complaining adult will be less effective than the interested and understanding. And love and understanding are only effective when they are genuine. And to be genuine they must be motivated by love. We must love our young people, whether they are in righteousness or in error. In this way we can give them a chance to discern and to learn. But we must also give them a fair choice. Today many are not succeeding.

Yes, “There comes a time when the general defilement of a society becomes so great that the rising generation is put under undue pressure and cannot be said to have a fair choice between the Way of Light and the Way of Darkness.”

God grant that we as parents and leaders of youth may have the power and the good common sense to give them “a fair choice,” I humbly pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[Jason]

See info on the Tavistock Institute (the folks that brought us the Beetles) for more on the control of music...
http://yophat.blogspot.com/2009/06/tavi ... itute.html

[Henmasher]

Rensai,
Enjoy twilight if you like. It truly is your decision so I cannot interfere with your opinion or desires. But if we are to believe that it brings the spirit closer than I cannot agree. If we are to beleive that fishing takes the spirit away than I am inclined to believe that so will attending church. Since the standard is set that it "may have the ability to". Where is the educational value in those books?
Here is one last thought and it will definitely sound hypocritical if the intent is to find deception in what I say.

Does God expect us to meet this standard with everything?

A resounding YES to the best of our ability. No offense but time spent reading twilight rather than performing service or reading things of good report, will definitely handicap a persons progression. While I fail at times I will do my best to keep both feet out of babylon. It is the dabbling that causes a person to fall. Been there done that and I will never go back.

[Mahonri]

exactly master of hens. We all fall short, but we shouldn't promote our short comings as good things.

We have been commanded to "deny (ourselves) of all ungodliness"

is Twilight "godly"? This is a fair and good question we should all ask about all of our activities.

[Rensai]

Rensai,
Enjoy twilight if you like. It truly is your decision so I cannot interfere with your opinion or desires. But if we are to believe that it brings the spirit closer than I cannot agree. If we are to beleive that fishing takes the spirit away than I am inclined to believe that so will attending church.

I never said it brought the spirit closer, I haven't even read the books.

Since the standard is set that it "may have the ability to". Where is the educational value in those books?

I don't know, I haven't read them. Neither have you. You're missing the point. You say, "where is the educational value in the books"? I say, where is the educational value in fishing, or even in church most times? Does every activity a person ever does have to have "Educational value"? Why do you keep insisting on a double standard? Can't someone simply read them because they enjoy them?

Here is one last thought and it will definitely sound hypocritical if the intent is to find deception in what I say.

Does God expect us to meet this standard with everything?

A resounding YES to the best of our ability. No offense but time spent reading twilight rather than performing service or reading things of good report, will definitely handicap a persons progression. While I fail at times I will do my best to keep both feet out of babylon. It is the dabbling that causes a person to fall. Been there done that and I will never go back.

Fair enough, I agree that we should do this to "the best of our ability" but again, the difference is, when you are out enjoying a fishing trip is the twilight crowd there demanding to know how that invites the spirit or where the educational value is? Have you ever heard them say you're following satan, etc because you chose to go fishing for entertainment even though it won't invite the spirit? We all fall short of the perfect standard in some ways. That doesn't make us Satan worshippers. Hopefully, we're all doing the best we can and until the spirit or some very solid evidence says otherwise, I will extend that belief to Stephanie Meyers as well.

I'm sorry, I respect all you guys who have posted against twilight. I often enjoy your posts and learn from them. But in this, you all sound pretty hypocritical and self righteous to me. Maybe I've just done a poor job in trying to show what I see as a glaring double standard. I tried using the fishing example because I thought it would help you see it. The slanderous accusations levelled against Stephanie Meyer in this thread (almost entirely by those with little to no familiarity with her books) seem far worse to me than the books could ever be. If you guys had focused your comments solely on the books, I would have agreed with you, at least to a point; they sound like teen soap opera's to me. But this thread went much further. Insinuations and accusations of supporting Satan or being inspired by Satan, etc. That is going way to far imho. None of you should be making those kinds of judgements against Stephanie Meyers. I hope you all don't find yourselves in a position someday on the other side having to explain to your sister why you accused her of supporting Satan based on some hearsay.

In any case, I can see this isn't really going anywhere. Carry on with the witch hunt if that's what makes you happy. As for me, I'm done with this topic. I want no part in trying to insinuate that Satan inspired Stephanie Meyers or any other slander.

[Mahonri]

saying fishing (something the apostles of Christ's time did) is the same as Twilight is totally inappropriate.

Twilight contains material that according to LDS.org is pornographic.

Is there any context, besides calling evil good and good evil, where vampires are praiseworthy or of good report?

Can fishing ever be bad? sure if you break God's laws to do it.

Can Twilight ever be good? Only if you can tell me when porn, pedophilia and vampires are good.

[Henmasher]

Ok this is now ridiculous. I may find myself on the other side finding myself in a position of apology for the acts of a sister that promotes differences than to Gods principles?
Lets see all it takes for evil to flourish is................................. you get the idea. I have touched in on these books and they are mystical and are in direct opposition to Christ. Give me a break that we should not criticize?????
Let none of us speak out against anything that resembles evil by virtue of fear of a post mortal apology
These books are not furthering Gods Kingdom and they use themes that contradict the teachings of Christ and His church. End of Story. But in the name of entertainment we should be sympathetic and allow others to act ignorantly in their agency. I personally thank anyone and everyone that had the balls to tell me when I was in dangerous water and justifying things because of agency and entertainment. Ditto this thread did die a few comments ago

Rennie I see your point of hypocritically accusing others but this is not me telling her to quit smoking while jagging one down outside a pool hall half buzzed. There is wiggle room here don't you think?

[Jason]

I'm sorry, I respect all you guys who have posted against twilight. I often enjoy your posts and learn from them. But in this, you all sound pretty hypocritical and self righteous to me. Maybe I've just done a poor job in trying to show what I see as a glaring double standard. I tried using the fishing example because I thought it would help you see it. The slanderous accusations levelled against Stephanie Meyer in this thread (almost entirely by those with little to no familiarity with her books) seem far worse to me than the books could ever be. If you guys had focused your comments solely on the books, I would have agreed with you, at least to a point; they sound like teen soap opera's to me. But this thread went much further. Insinuations and accusations of supporting Satan or being inspired by Satan, etc. That is going way to far imho. None of you should be making those kinds of judgements against Stephanie Meyers. I hope you all don't find yourselves in a position someday on the other side having to explain to your sister why you accused her of supporting Satan based on some hearsay.

In any case, I can see this isn't really going anywhere. Carry on with the witch hunt if that's what makes you happy. As for me, I'm done with this topic. I want no part in trying to insinuate that Satan inspired Stephanie Meyers or any other slander.

My wife has read the first two books in the series based on other's recommendations (lds author). Several relatives have read them all and taken their 9-13 yr old daughters to the movies....all because lds author makes it okay (that and they are enticing).

The fundamental point is they portray evil as good. And that isn't good...and also possibly the reason for the following -

Anyone who is thinking about checking out the craze that is Stephenie Meyer's Twilight series need not attempt to find a copy of any of the best-selling vampire romance novels on the shelves of Deseret Book.

The bookstore chain, which is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, recently confirmed that copies of any of the books in the popular series will no longer be found amongst the merchandise in any of its 38 stores.

While the books have been taken off the shelves, Deseret Book customers can still get their hands on a copy of one of the books by special ordering them through the store.

Deseret Book spokeswoman Leigh Dethman issued a statement from the company explaining the decision.

"Our top priority is to meet the needs of our customers, who increasingly represent a variety of viewpoints," the statement said. "Like any retailer, our purpose is to offer products that are embraced and expected by our customers. When we find products that are met with mixed review, we typically move them to special order status."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7052 ... -Book.html

Deseret Book spokeswoman Leigh Dethman offered this bland non-statement. “Like any retailer, our purpose is to offer products that are embraced and expected by our customers. When we find products that are met with mixed review, we typically move them to special order status.”

Here’s some humor to add to the incestuous business farce. Deseret Book may have yanked Twilight from its shelves and Web site due to complaints that it was unsuitable for younger readers, BUT, as of Wednesday, Deseretkids.com, the bookseller’s Web site for young readers, was still offering the entire “Twilight” series. Want all four books, kiddies? They’re right here! http://deseretkids.com/store

Can I just state the obvious here: There is nothing wrong with Meyer’s “Twilight” series, which involves a romance between a vampire male and a teenage girl. The books have sold very well — including, we’re sure, at Deseret Book. In fact, an incredible 16 percent of all books sold last quarter was authored by Meyer. That’s mind-boggling.

According to a comment we saw on a local media Web site, a person claiming to be a Deseret Book employee said the store regularly receives complaints about Meyer’s “Twilight” series. That’s a shame. As mentioned, they are clean, highly entertaining fantasy reads that carry a message of chastity and commitment. They’re more teen romances than vampire novels.

This recent effort to criticize Meyer’s novels from a moral perspective is despicable. It was stupid that evangelical extremists trashed the “Harry Potter” series and it’s equally stupid that Utah will be tainted by this moralistic, asinine movement against “Twilight.”

http://blogs.standard.net/2009/04/the-p ... eret-book/

I see this as another angle on the New Age movement (seeking after the same thing - calling evil good)....and which I'll be eternally grateful to Bella for pointing out the little twists and lies interwoven in their rhetoric.

[Rensai]

Ok this is now ridiculous. I may find myself on the other side finding myself in a position of apology for the acts of a sister that promotes differences than to Gods principles?

So it's ridiculous to apologize if you falsely accuse someone of serving Satan? I guess we're very different then because if I had done that, I would feel a very strong need to apologize as profusely as possible. I don't know if the comments were yours specifically Hen, I clearly stated I was referring to the comments ABOUT STEPHANIE MEYER DIRECTLY. Comments that she was inspired by Satan, should be excommunicated, etc. All these, are way out of line and completely slanderous. None of you can truthfully say you know she is purposely serving Satan or deserves excommunication, etc.

saying fishing (something the apostles of Christ's time did) is the same as Twilight is totally inappropriate.

A) Fishing for a living (productive) is not the same as fishing for sport (entertainment) and that is what we are referring to. Try to understand context.

B) I never said it was the same thing. I said hold it up to the same standards you guys are using, and it is an equally unacceptable use of your time.

Like I said, its clear you've all judged Stephanie Meyer.

[Mahonri]

It's clear you have judged us, because I have not judged her, just her satanic books.

[Henmasher]

It's clear you have judged us, because I have not judged her, just her satanic books.

Rennie I got say Ditto to this one. You take the stance that she is completely innocent while you say yourself you have not read them
How can you advocate for someone when you do not know the material. My complete basis for any accusation (and I was not for the excommunication, I am more for not promoting of advocating for such trashy writing) is personal revelation and promptings received after seeing what it has done to people and marriages, and then the influence on family. Sorry but I will definitely choose to err on the side of calling her writing filth rather than allowing them to go into the masses uninpeded. Sorry I agree with most of what you post but this is not good stuff.

[Rensai]

It's clear you have judged us, because I have not judged her, just her satanic books.

Mahonri, I never said anything about you specifically; You're being very disingenuous. This thread is full of judgments against her as you well know. Many of which, are very serious, and very vile accusations to make (if they are false).

[Mahonri]

It's clear you have judged us, because I have not judged her, just her satanic books.

Mahonri, I never said anything about you specifically; You're being very disingenuous. This thread is full of judgments against her as you well know. Many of which, are very serious, and very vile accusations to make (if they are false).

Not true. You quote me twice and no one else then say

"Like I said, its clear you've all judged Stephanie Meyer."

You quote me, then say we all have judged her.

You are not telling the truth, as I have backed up with facts, and then accuse me again without anything to back it up.

Twilight is pornography. Why would anyone defend porn, especially on an LDS forum?

[Rensai]

It's clear you have judged us, because I have not judged her, just her satanic books.

Rennie I got say Ditto to this one. You take the stance that she is completely innocent while you say yourself you have not read them

Where did I say she is completely innocent? If I implied that I'm sorry. All I am trying to say is that I do NOT know how innocent she is and neither do any of you, and therefore people should not be calling for her excommunication or saying she takes direction from Satan through dreams, etc. I choose to err on the side of caution and give her the benefit of the doubt rather than slandering her without any proof.

How can you advocate for someone when you do not know the material.

As I said, my own second hand opinion is that its basically soap opera crap aimed at teen girls. I just think people need to be careful when condemning things they haven't read, and even more so people they know little to nothing about. I was only advocating her to the point of saying that no one here should be calling for excommunication or claiming Satan inspired her dream, etc. I don't know if that's true one way or the other, neither does anyone else here. Therefore that is rumor mongering, evil speaking, etc. The scriptures have many names for that kind of talk and they are clear about what the Lord thinks of it.

My complete basis for any accusation (and I was not for the excommunication, I am more for not promoting of advocating for such trashy writing) is personal revelation and promptings received after seeing what it has done to people and marriages, and then the influence on family.

At that level its fine Hen, that's within your stewardship to determine if the books are appropriate to you and your family, but I do think you are letting your bias show with the differing standards you used, as we already talked about; but that is your right to make that choice. I thought that part of the conversation was done.

Others however, have gone farther, and that's who I was primarily talking to. I think people are free and justified in judging her works, but are out of line judging her soul, that's for the lord to do. No one has the right (without proof) to say she should be excommunicated or is taking her inspiration from Satan in Dreams. Dreaming or hearing characters talk to you, is EXTREMELY common amongst authors. Almost every author I know of who writes fiction, will say something similar. That is not even close to evidence let alone proof, that she is collaborating with Satan.

[Rensai]

It's clear you have judged us, because I have not judged her, just her satanic books.

Mahonri, I never said anything about you specifically; You're being very disingenuous. This thread is full of judgments against her as you well know. Many of which, are very serious, and very vile accusations to make (if they are false).

Not true. You quote me twice and no one else then say

"Like I said, its clear you've all judged Stephanie Meyer."

You quote me, then say we all have judged her.

You are not telling the truth, as I have backed up with facts, and then accuse me again without anything to back it up.

Twilight is pornography. Why would anyone defend porn, especially on an LDS forum?

Ok, sorry about that. I should have said Many of you have judged her, not all.

[serenitylala]

Mahonri, I never said anything about you specifically; You're being very disingenuous. This thread is full of judgments against her as you well know. Many of which, are very serious, and very vile accusations to make (if they are false).

Not true. You quote me twice and no one else then say

"Like I said, its clear you've all judged Stephanie Meyer."

You quote me, then say we all have judged her.

You are not telling the truth, as I have backed up with facts, and then accuse me again without anything to back it up.

Twilight is pornography. Why would anyone defend porn, especially on an LDS forum?

Ok, sorry about that. I should have said Many of you have judged her, not all.

I am so not ambitious enough to go back through this thread and look for who could have judged the author. I must have skimmed over the posts that did, because I really didn't see any.

Personally, I didn't judge her; I just don't think her books are the most appropriate discussion material for Relief Societies and they most certainly shouldn't replace husbands. Also, I don't like the lifestyle they are promoting.

[creator]

You guys should all take your spouses out to see Eclipse for a date night 8)

I suppose I could join in on the complaints people have brought up, but the movie was actually a breath of fresh air in regards to the higher standards it upholds, compared to most other movies you'll see in the theater.

I'm not trying to justify or excuse the promotion of evil, or things that are satanic, but I think before I start complaining about the Twilight movies it would be best that I repent of watching other PG-13 movies that promote much lower standards.

[Jason]

You guys should all take your spouses out to see Eclipse for a date night 8)

I suppose I could join in on the complaints people have brought up, but the movie was actually a breath of fresh air in regards to the higher standards it upholds, compared to most other movies you'll see in the theater.

I'm not trying to justify or excuse the promotion of evil, or things that are satanic, but I think before I start complaining about the Twilight movies it would be best that I repent of watching other PG-13 movies that promote much lower standards.

Ahh so the evil really is good.....

[jnjnelson]

Ahh so the evil really is good.....

… and the good really is evil.

[Fiannan]

Okay, my daughter's friends all wanted to watch Eclipse at our house last night so I was forced to sit in on it. What I felt was interesting was a subtle feminist message -- that's right, even though people have criticized Twilight for promoting traditional roles, there was something interesting in the plot in my opinion at least.

Edward, Bella's love interest, has left the area so as to protect her. Of course, Edward just ooozes with metrosexualism. Onthe other hand, the werewolf has fallen in love with her and wants to protect her from a couple of vampires who want her dead -- as well as from Edward in case she might want him to make her a vampire. The thing is, the wolf guys seem to symbolize masculinity to the max, while the vampire men are kinda wimpish looking -- even the head of Edward's clan who bears a wierd resemblence to Joseph Smith. The only vampire who seems totally loving to Belle, has a dynamic personality, and wants to protect her and even be the one to turn her is the vampire Alice. In a strange way her loyalty to Belle almost could make an audience member root for her to be the one who wins her in the end.
So I am not sure if this is brilliant Freudian psychology by the film maker, or just coincidnece, but one wonders about the subtle message in a way. Oh, and as for the scene where the human tourists get eaten alive by the bad vampires couldn't the film have at least had Belle shed a tear for the innocents rather than just be absorbed by herself in the next scene?

Again though, I admire Meyer for her accomplishments, and maybe I am just reading too much into the plot, but it is fun to analyze the meanings that may be coming across.