What if the mark of the Beast is NOT an RFID chip?

[Rosabella]

Bella,
Thank you. You have hit on the head, a thought that has been in my mind a lot as of late. Its a simple truth we all know yet many do not of us don't practice it as we should. It is simply that we must have a personal relationship with our Savior and Father in Heaven. We must worship and submit to them, not to the bishop, or elders quorum pres., or stake pres., or even the prophet. My husband and I have had many a talk about how foolish some members are in their efforts to 'brown nose' people in leadership positions. So many people are so distracted by the popularity games played at church, that they seem to forget that it is Jesus Christ's chruch and we are to worship him. I wonder how popular he would be in most wards if he showed up incognito. I think most people would be offended by him.

I am becoming more and more aware that if we are to obtain salvation, we must be actively seeking it each day. Not abstractly thinking about it occasionally. You are right, we must submit to our Father in Heavens' will. If we won't we will not be with him. It is very cut and dry actually. The more we allow ourselves to be distracted or decived, the further away from him we will become. Making it much harder to return, or even recognise that we have even wandered away from him. I feel as though the Lord is 'feeling' after us right now. More so than ever because we are fast approaching a day when we will have to make a choice between him and satan, and so many of us members (who should know better) are unprepared to make that choice. So many of us do not see things as they really are. We do not understand that 'satans great and abominible church' is so much more that just personal sin.....and so much more dangerous as well. He is organized in his plan of attack, and the majority of us have no idea that we are at war!

I agree with much that you have said though I would like to clarify a point. We are told to follow the Prophet in all things and he has told us to follow the leadership of the Church that have been given the keys over us. I agree that we should not be involved in pandering for popularity to these presiding officers, but quietly obeying what they say. If we have an issue with directions we should go up the chain of leadership to deal with such matters. It is first and foremost to follow Father and His will, but when we have been told through the mouth piece of God (Prophet)to do such and such it is to be obeyed as if God came to you directly with the order. We should not worship any Church leader as you have said. But obedience and worship are not the same thing. We have been promised if we did follow a leader and he lead us wrongly, it would be on him, not us, and our obedience would count for righteousness. Of course this may not relate to clear laws of God broken such as the ten commandments. If we truly believe in the LDS Faith we must also believe in the Prophet and all that he directs the Church in. If not we may find ourselves lost over something we just did not see the point or purpose of at the time. But the Lord will not allow the Prophet to misguide us.

Again I very much agree with the things you have said. I just differ on the "submit" part to the Leadership of the Church. But do completely agree with the "Worship" issue. Many have lost sight of whose Church we belong to. All the scriptures we have been given to us by prophets of the Lord. So they are his mouth piece on Earth. I am sure what you were trying to say when you said "worship and submit" was merely pointing out not to worship men instead of God. I hope I only clarified what you were saying.

[ready2prepare]

Is it possible that modern-day Christendom is "looking
beyond the mark" in attempting to put a modern-day
meaning on a very ancient concept?

As is stated in Alma 3:18–19, one marks, or curses,
himself by disobedience to God. Are we keeping
ourselves more fully . . . “unspotted from the world”
(James 1:27) by separating from it in all that is evil?

When we are marked (spotted) from the world by our
failure to believe and obey Christ, we receive the mark
of the world (Babylon, the Beast) and are forced to buy
and sell by its rules to provide for our wants and needs.

When we are unmarked (unspotted) from the world
through faith in Christ and obedience to His laws, we
receive the mark of Christ and we learn how to fully
trust in Him to provide for our wants and needs.

In a truly Christ-centered society where all things are
had in common, why would there even be any need to
buy and sell?

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all
men, as every man had need." (Acts 2: 44-45)

"And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were
all converted unto the Lord...and there were no contentions and
disputations among them, and every man did deal justly with
one another.
And they had all things common among them; therefore there
were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made
free, and partakers of the heavenly gift." (4 Nephi 1: 2-3)

"And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whore-
doms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness;
and surely there could not be a happier people among all the
people who had been created by the hand of God." (4 Ne. 1: 16)

"Every man seeking the interest of his neighbor, and doing all
things with an eye single to the glory of God." (D&C 82:19)

Those who refuse to receive the mark, or seal of Christ
receive the "mark of the Beast" by default. They are
forced to receive it because they choose to disobey God
and thus lose their agency.

You may also want to read this article on the LDS.org website:
Revelation: The Plainest Book Ever Written
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

"From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body
the marks of the Lord Jesus." --The Apostle Paul (Galations 6:17)

[reese]

I agree with much that you have said though I would like to clarify a point. We are told to follow the Prophet in all things and he has told us to follow the leadership of the Church that have been given the keys over us. I agree that we should not be involved in pandering for popularity to these presiding officers, but quietly obeying what they say. If we have an issue with directions we should go up the chain of leadership to deal with such matters. It is first and foremost to follow Father and His will, but when we have been told through the mouth piece of God (Prophet)to do such and such it is to be obeyed as if God came to you directly with the order. We should not worship any Church leader as you have said. But obedience and worship are not the same thing. We have been promised if we did follow a leader and he lead us wrongly, it would be on him, not us, and our obedience would count for righteousness. Of course this may not relate to clear laws of God broken such as the ten commandments. If we truly believe in the LDS Faith we must also believe in the Prophet and all that he directs the Church in. If not we may find ourselves lost over something we just did not see the point or purpose of at the time. But the Lord will not allow the Prophet to misguide us.

Again I very much agree with the things you have said. I just differ on the "submit" part to the Leadership of the Church. But do completely agree with the "Worship" issue. Many have lost sight of whose Church we belong to. All the scriptures we have been given to us by prophets of the Lord. So they are his mouth piece on Earth. I am sure what you were trying to say when you said "worship and submit" was merely pointing out not to worship men instead of God. I hope I only clarified what you were saying.

Bella,
We definitley see eye to eye. I should not have included the submit part in my rant on not worshiping church leadership. We must be willing to submit, or follow, the prophet. After all he does speak for the Lord. I just get so tired of listening to comments, or testimonies in church all about the bishop this, the elders quorum pres. that, or even "I met the prophet....", and no one seems to talk about Jesus Christ. And unless we have a very personal relationship with him we cannot be saved. Even if we go to church every week, and do our callings faithfully.

As ready2prepare said just above, I too think we often look past the mark. I think this church membership resembles the jews during Jesus' time. So many members are so punitive, and are so concerned with the outward show, that Christ gets put in the back. Rarely talked about or discussed on the level he deserves. This is more on the local level of wards and stakes, not on the leadership level of the prophet and apostles.
I just get sooooo tired of all the games played at church! If you can't tell . It makes me sad for the Lord.

[kathyn]

So many members are so punitive, and are so concerned with the outward show, that Christ gets put in the back. Rarely talked about or discussed on the level he deserves

This is not the case in our ward. I feel very privileged to live in a spiritual ward where Jesus Christ and the Atonement are very much a part of our meetings. Our Stake President is also very in tune. For that I am so grateful. If it is not that way in your ward, I feel bad for you.

[ndjili]

I grew up in a ward that wasnt the greatest. I left the church over it. Really it only hurt me but I've come back and I am so grateful that my husband decided to follow. I know this is not the case for MOST people who convert after they marry. I'm also lucky to be in Kathyn's ward and it really is a great ward. I think that is why the church is trying so hard to work on the spiritual side right now. Temporal affairs are not forgotten and always are mentioned but the spiritual is really been the focus. Loving our fellow man, loving God, attending the Temple, being true Christians and above all looking to and studyuing the scriptures for the "ancient" knowledge that was given to us from God. Not a twisted version from Satan. All these tools are being given to us for a reason. We WILL need them. It's sad when so many get irritated at the "lack" of temporal preparedness being spoken of by the Prophet and GA's, or they're not exposing of LDG's in the governments of the world. In God's infinite wisdom he IS giving us the tools we need. Really everything is there in the scriptures. It amazes me every time I read them just what is contained within. We are being warned and we are being given the tools. It's just up to us to listen and apply.
And as usual I dont think I can thank Bella enough for all the work and time she has put into what she has done. Also all the opposition she suffers for it. Thank you.

Reese-it's crazy how many people (including myself) who has come to the same conclussions that you have. I was joking to my mom that I think the Holy Ghost is working triple overtime right now trying to warn all who would listen. It makes me feel very loved that the Godhead care enough about us to do all this for us.

Sharon-it's funny you posted that verse from Alma. I was just reading that last night.

[Kurt]

I should not have included the submit part in my rant on not worshiping church leadership. We must be willing to submit, or follow, the prophet. After all he does speak for the Lord. I just get so tired of listening to comments, or testimonies in church all about the bishop this, the elders quorum pres. that, or even "I met the prophet....", and no one seems to talk about Jesus Christ. And unless we have a very personal relationship with him we cannot be saved. Even if we go to church every week, and do our callings faithfully.

As ready2prepare said just above, I too think we often look past the mark. I think this church membership resembles the jews during Jesus' time. So many members are so punitive, and are so concerned with the outward show, that Christ gets put in the back. Rarely talked about or discussed on the level he deserves. This is more on the local level of wards and stakes, not on the leadership level of the prophet and apostles.
I just get sooooo tired of all the games played at church! If you can't tell . It makes me sad for the Lord.

Thanks for the comments Reese. I see more than a few Rameumptons in my ward metaphorically speaking as the downtrodden are cast off and persecuted with prideful judgements... People can fall into the trap of believing that if they are prospered they are better than those who are not. About the popularity contests, I have seen many occur within the local levels. It is like a corporation where those who want to rise up above others use brownosing, manipulation, and trodding on others to get gain. The problem is that when those who do these things actually do rise up into positions of power, they are built on a false foundation and do a terrible job of leading the saints with any compassion or love, mostly rules and beuracracies. Letter over spirit, like the saducees and pharisees.

We must cleanse the inner vessel to be worthy of leading others.

[ldsfireguy]

Sharon,

You said:

When we are marked (spotted) from the world by our
failure to believe and obey Christ, we receive the mark
of the world (Babylon, the Beast) and are forced to buy
and sell by its rules to provide for our wants and needs.

When we are unmarked (unspotted) from the world
through faith in Christ and obedience to His laws, we
receive the mark of Christ and we learn how to fully
trust in Him to provide for our wants and needs.

...

Those who refuse to receive the mark, or seal of Christ
receive the "mark of the Beast" by default. They are
forced to receive it because they choose to disobey God
and thus lose their agency.

You have some interesting and valuable ideas in here. However, I do think that the mark of the beast in the last days will be some form of real mark that is willfully accepted. There are several reasons that I have for this:

1. Rev 14:9 says "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, ...", & Rev. 20:4 says "neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands". These references to receipt of a mark in the forehead or hand sound literal to me.

2. Rev 13:17 says "no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." It would be very difficult to implement a restrictive system that disallows buying and selling without a very real mark or indication of some kind; but WITH such a mark it would be simple to implement.

3. There is a history for such marking in the past - the Lamanites were marked for their willingness to follow Lucifer, likewise the followers of Cain, and the Gadiantons; the Jews were marked by the Nazis in perverted mimicry of the other markings, etc... Followers of Lucifer today often mark themselves with specific tattoos as a means of identification and even communication.

4. In order to incur the penalties and judgments specified in scripture, I think that the mark must be very definite and physical, representing a conscious and willful subscription to the principles and worship of the Luciferian system. Anything less could be repented of, or turned around; but those who subscribe and receive the mark cannot repent during the remainder of earth's mortal history - at least that is the way I read it. I think, in effect, they share culpability for the mass martyrdom that occurs under the authority of the regime, essentially helping in or agreeing at least implicitly to the mass shedding of innocent blood.

5. There are testimonies available (including Aaron Russo, before his death) from defectors of the NWO, and from those who have documented it, that very clearly describe that the stated aim of the NWO is to "chip everyone on earth." Aaron's stuff is particularly interesting ... he was a friend of Nick Rockefeller, and someone who was kind of on the edge of being one of the NWO elite, and he was told many times by Nick that this was the end goal. When he asked why, he was told it was to control the masses.

6. Some of the new age "spiritual gurus" also refer to this marking, and also speak very bluntly about the purging or cleansing that will occur for anyone who refuses to participate. The scariest thing here is that many of these gurus are active in NGO's or even in government sponsored boards, or the guru's own organizations receive official government support and/or recognition. Somehow, it never gets reported that these same gurus who are so close to government are openly talking about or advocating a "cleansing" like this ...

7. In order to achieve the cleansing, and even just to segregate or persecute the peoples who refuse to participate in the new system, some quick and easy means of sorting and recognizing the protesters must be implemented. Think of 1930's Germany here, and Jews wearing the Star of David and eventually the camp tattoo; except in this case reversed - those without the mark are persecuted.

Also, for these and other reasons, it has been my own opinion and feeling for almost 30 years that this would be the case.

My thoughts ... thanks for reading.

[Original_Intent]

I still tend to believe the mark will be a chip, or something similar implanted.

Have you guys watched the recent stock movement of Verichip, the guys who make the RFID chip? Here is their stock chart for the past month:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/ch ... playForm=1

Hmm they have been granted an exclusive right to produce a system for H1N1 virus detection...

Then there is the lady on Youtube who claims they are being trained in the military to set up raod blocks and people that have the scannable bracelt that they have been vaccinatted will be allowed thru, but those without the bracelet will be given the option ot either get the vaccination there at the roadblock or will either not be allowed to pass or will be taken to a detention facility.

If there is a huge outbreak of a contagious disease, will it not be perfectly reasonable and expected that you will not be allowed in public places (such as grocery stores) without providing proof that you have been immunized? Unable to buy or sell without the mark of the beast ring any bells? And don;t these prophesies always unfold not in glaring obvious ways, but always in ways that the spiritually asleep do not notice, only the watchful will see it for what it is.

[ldsfireguy]

I agree that there is a subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle slide into this thing as you say, and that it takes a certain spiritual awareness to be awake to it.

But I also believe that the final implementation of the actual mark will be a very open thing. It may even have some kind of ceremonial component ... but anyhow, public and not at all secret. It actually represents a swearing of allegiance.

The whole idea of forced vaccinations though scares me to death. We in my family are against vaccincations generally, and believe that they are used to subjugate the population.

Did you know that the new vaccine for H1N1 actually contains Thimerasol (it says so right on the outside label), which is basically mercury, one of the most toxic neurotoxins known?

[Original_Intent]

I am not so sure about the ceremonial aspect, I think sometimes we visualize how things will unfold so many times in our heads, that certain aspects that we have imagined become ingrained. It may very well be an open thing that people will clearly know what they are doing/refusing to do.

Ultimately, as I spoke to my family about possible forced vaccinations etc, I told them that if they are voluntary, I am against them but I will allow each person to decide if they want the shots (my sons are 12 and 16). However, my feeling is if the shots and bracelets or whatever are mandatory then I will not take them and will strongly counsel against taking them because if you accept a MANDATORY vaccination then you have basically acknowledged that you are no better than cattle and are the property of whoever declared them mandatory.

People look at Revelation and see the mark as the ultimate and final decision of people either following Satan or Christ. Again, i don't think it will be as blatant as stepping into a voting booth and marking either "Jesus" or "Satan". I believe that taking a mandatory vaccination is bending the knee to the State, it is conceding to the use of FORCE as opposed to gentle persuasion and convincing. In my book this is exactly the choice of receiving the mark. People that don't receive the mark are going to be persecuted and hated, and be unable to buy or sell. If you don;t receive the mark and also try to convince others not to receive the mandatory mark on the grounds that it is demeaning to their innate human rights, how is that going to make those that receive the mark feel? They will feel resentment and hatred because at the deepest levels they will know they sold their birthright and that they are cowards.

I will keep my eyes open and watch what develops. I heard on the radio (99.5) they said that on Oct 15 that school nurses will be administering shots "classroom by classroom". It does not sound voluntary to me and at the very least I expect school kids are going to be highly pressured to "just do it." I hope I am dead wrong, in which case I will continue to be watchful and as ready as possible.

[Rosabella]

Sharon,

You said:

When we are marked (spotted) from the world by our
failure to believe and obey Christ, we receive the mark
of the world (Babylon, the Beast) and are forced to buy
and sell by its rules to provide for our wants and needs.

When we are unmarked (unspotted) from the world
through faith in Christ and obedience to His laws, we
receive the mark of Christ and we learn how to fully
trust in Him to provide for our wants and needs.

...

Those who refuse to receive the mark, or seal of Christ
receive the "mark of the Beast" by default. They are
forced to receive it because they choose to disobey God
and thus lose their agency.

You have some interesting and valuable ideas in here. However, I do think that the mark of the beast in the last days will be some form of real mark that is willfully accepted. There are several reasons that I have for this:

1. Rev 14:9 says "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, ...", & Rev. 20:4 says "neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands". These references to receipt of a mark in the forehead or hand sound literal to me.

2. Rev 13:17 says "no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." It would be very difficult to implement a restrictive system that disallows buying and selling without a very real mark or indication of some kind; but WITH such a mark it would be simple to implement.

3. There is a history for such marking in the past - the Lamanites were marked for their willingness to follow Lucifer, likewise the followers of Cain, and the Gadiantons; the Jews were marked by the Nazis in perverted mimicry of the other markings, etc... Followers of Lucifer today often mark themselves with specific tattoos as a means of identification and even communication.

4. In order to incur the penalties and judgments specified in scripture, I think that the mark must be very definite and physical, representing a conscious and willful subscription to the principles and worship of the Luciferian system. Anything less could be repented of, or turned around; but those who subscribe and receive the mark cannot repent during the remainder of earth's mortal history - at least that is the way I read it. I think, in effect, they share culpability for the mass martyrdom that occurs under the authority of the regime, essentially helping in or agreeing at least implicitly to the mass shedding of innocent blood.

5. There are testimonies available (including Aaron Russo, before his death) from defectors of the NWO, and from those who have documented it, that very clearly describe that the stated aim of the NWO is to "chip everyone on earth." Aaron's stuff is particularly interesting ... he was a friend of Nick Rockefeller, and someone who was kind of on the edge of being one of the NWO elite, and he was told many times by Nick that this was the end goal. When he asked why, he was told it was to control the masses.

6. Some of the new age "spiritual gurus" also refer to this marking, and also speak very bluntly about the purging or cleansing that will occur for anyone who refuses to participate. The scariest thing here is that many of these gurus are active in NGO's or even in government sponsored boards, or the guru's own organizations receive official government support and/or recognition. Somehow, it never gets reported that these same gurus who are so close to government are openly talking about or advocating a "cleansing" like this ...

7. In order to achieve the cleansing, and even just to segregate or persecute the peoples who refuse to participate in the new system, some quick and easy means of sorting and recognizing the protesters must be implemented. Think of 1930's Germany here, and Jews wearing the Star of David and eventually the camp tattoo; except in this case reversed - those without the mark are persecuted.

Also, for these and other reasons, it has been my own opinion and feeling for almost 30 years that this would be the case.

My thoughts ... thanks for reading.

Agree with both the broad interpretation of Sharon and the literal interpretation of FireGuy. For the scripture are written that way. Symbols and literal so we can recolonize both. Though when we are at the end game it will be literal.

It is hard not to see it as literal when you read their plans written by highly respected leaders that involved in the political world and backed but the money powers of the world. I tend to then take notice.If they say that is their plans and it fits scripture well then their is a good chance that is what is going to happen. They like to brag first about what they are going to do even writing all of it down in books for all to see. From what i have witnessed over 25 year they do fulfill their goals at some point. This mark is way to important to be something simple. The scriptures are strong regarding it and the other side is very stuck in their ways of what they plan.

Great post!

[jsk]

I tend to agree with ldsfireguy and Bella. From my own perspective, I'm not sure what the actual "mark" will be...whether it's literal or figurative, although I tend to believe it could be both. In any event, I don't see where getting a vaccination or even a microchip implanted is automatically the "mark." I think we would need to look at what such a thing would represent...and if it actually represents swearing allegiance to Lucifer or to certain Luciferian principles, or involves acquiesing to the slaughter of innocents, then we may be more certain that such a thing may indeed be the "mark." I also agree that when this occurs, taking the "mark" will likely represent a clear choice to support Lucifer over Christ, and will not be nebulous.

Perhaps one reason we've been counseled to have food storage and to be otherwise as self sufficient as possible is because without the "mark," we will be unable to buy and sell or engage in other commerical activities. Perhaps this is also a reason we've been counseled to get out of debt to the extent possible.

Just my random thoughts...

[buffalo_girl]

If there is a huge outbreak of a contagious disease, will it not be perfectly reasonable and expected that you will not be allowed in public places (such as grocery stores) without providing proof that you have been immunized?

I don't get that! If everyone who lines up to take the shot is immune to the virus...then why care if those who have not taken the shot get sick? If the shot works to keep a person from getting sick, what's the problem?

Why would the UN or anyone else care about those who refuse the shot...UNLESS those who don't are the most likely to disrupt the machine.

It is particularly contradictory that the power elite - who hold to Social Darwinism - want to isolate and destroy individuals with the most advanced survival instincts. I guess killing everyone but them makes them the most advanced.

And, yes, the NWO drones do want everyone rfid'd. I talked to a cattleman who has been very active in opposing rfid chipping and tracking of livestock. His wife told me that at a DC meeting several years ago, a couple of agents from a well known 'intelligence' agency were in attendance. The rancher was told that this particular agency is watching how well the 'animal disease' issue works to mandate chipping or tattooing of every animal and the Premise Registration of every piece of land upon which an animal considered 'livestock' is housed with the National Animal Identification System (NAIS). This animal id scheme is global.

They mean to drive every living creature into the chute for rfid. Everything is inventory to these clones.

Don't overlook the fact that more advanced rfid can not only monitor, track and even receive specific signals, it can also be deployed to kill.

[Original_Intent]

If there is a huge outbreak of a contagious disease, will it not be perfectly reasonable and expected that you will not be allowed in public places (such as grocery stores) without providing proof that you have been immunized?

I don't get that! If everyone who lines up to take the shot is immune to the virus...then why care if those who have not taken the shot get sick? If the shot works to keep a person from getting sick, what's the problem?

Why would the UN or anyone else care about those who refuse the shot...UNLESS those who don't are the most likely to disrupt the machine.

It is particularly contradictory that the power elite - who hold to Social Darwinism - want to isolate and destroy individuals with the most advanced survival instincts. I guess killing everyone but them makes them the most advanced.

And, yes, the NWO drones do want everyone rfid'd. I talked to a cattleman who has been very active in opposing rfid chipping and tracking of livestock. His wife told me that at a DC meeting several years ago, a couple of agents from a well known 'intelligence' agency were in attendance. The rancher was told that this particular agency is watching how well the 'animal disease' issue works to mandate chipping or tattooing of every animal and the Premise Registration of every piece of land upon which an animal considered 'livestock' is housed with the National Animal Identification System (NAIS). This animal id scheme is global.

They mean to drive every living creature into the chute for rfid. Everything is inventory to these clones.

Don't overlook the fact that more advanced rfid can not only monitor, track and even receive specific signals, it can also be deployed to kill.

I agree with you that the section you quoted makes no sense at all. Not getting immunized ONLY affects the individual, it does not make you more of a "threat" to society.

[ldsfireguy]

I agree also, that the unvaccinated should pose no threat to the supposedly immune. But, the arguments for vaccination are very often emotional, and lack logical credibility. The reduction or eradication of many diseases which has been attributed to vaccines has in truth been a coincident circumstance - often the downward trend in the infection rates was previous to the initiation of mass vaccination.

You are touching on a deeper truth ... the vaccine program, and the potential restriction of the unvaccinated, is about control.

[reese]

I agree with the three post above. It makes no sense, however that is the way it is. I have chosen not to vaccinate any of my children with any of the childhood vaccines. In order for them to go to school I have to sign a form saying that if an infectious disease breaks out I have to keep them home. We would hate for them to spread a disease to all of the vaccinated children, that might not look very good for the vaccine promoters. Also it is intersting that whenever there is an outbreak of measles, for example, there is a high percentage of 'vaccinated' children who get the illness anyway. There is definitely a motive behind vaccines, and its not the health of our children, or any of us.

[ndjili]

I was reading in Alma the other night and was reading about Amlici. He being after the order of Nehor. In the footnotes Nehors teachings are called "antichrist". So Amlici's teachings are anti Christ. It's interesting that the teachings of the new age are from channeled beings who reinterpret the teachings of Christ and twist them into meaning the opposite than the original intent. Thus they are anti Christ. Now the followers of Amlici wanted to distinguish themselves from the Nephites (people of God). What did they do? They marked themselves with a visible mark of red on their foreheads. It was a mark that they CHOSE. In choosing the mark they took upon themselves a curse. Free agency makes it impossible to be cursed by a mark that was FORCED upon the people or something that was not clear to be something that comes with a curse. The people willingly chose to follow antichrist teaching, they WANTED to be separate from the Nephites (people of God) and they knowingly CHOSE the mark. So much of the BofM is a type and shadow. This mark whatever it is, must be something willingly chosen by the recipient and the people will be warned by the prophet of the curse that will fall on them by getting said mark. I used to think it was a chip but now I dont think so. Though it doesnt mean I'm going to get a chip I just think the mark something far different then we think it is.

[Rosabella]

I was reading in Alma the other night and was reading about Amlici. He being after the order of Nehor. In the footnotes Nehors teachings are called "antichrist". So Amlici's teachings are anti Christ. It's interesting that the teachings of the new age are from channeled beings who reinterpret the teachings of Christ and twist them into meaning the opposite than the original intent. Thus they are anti Christ. Now the followers of Amlici wanted to distinguish themselves from the Nephites (people of God). What did they do? They marked themselves with a visible mark of red on their foreheads. It was a mark that they CHOSE. In choosing the mark they took upon themselves a curse. Free agency makes it impossible to be cursed by a mark that was FORCED upon the people or something that was not clear to be something that comes with a curse. The people willingly chose to follow antichrist teaching, they WANTED to be separate from the Nephites (people of God) and they knowingly CHOSE the mark. So much of the BofM is a type and shadow. This mark whatever it is, must be something willingly chosen by the recipient and the people will be warned by the prophet of the curse that will fall on them by getting said mark. I used to think it was a chip but now I dont think so. Though it doesnt mean I'm going to get a chip I just think the mark something far different then we think it is.

I agree completely.

Could the mark be connected with receiving a chip, yes mostly because of the statement about buying and selling....but it has to be a choice to worship Lucifer. So they could be connected but the chip in itself is not the issue. The issue is the choice that we are clearly choosing to follow Lucifer not God.

This reminds me of my friend who writes the book series Millennial Glory has the chip idea and then many books later in the up coming book....which is not out yet.....she has adornments that they choose to wear on their foreheads. (I think she would be ok with me spilling that tiny part lol) The next book is called "Babylon" she shows the new age occult teachings as the teachings of Babylon that is all over the world at this point in her book series. She has used much of my research for the ideas in this book and the ending in the prior one in the series.

So it think the chip and the mark "could" be connected but they do not have to be. For the mark to be able to take you out of the book of life it must be a very serious choice we make not just an economic choice. If the Prophet warns us not to take a chip we better listen. Wendie Edwards shows this too in her book series. Though it does not necessarily mean it is the mark.

Though Wendie's books are novels she ended each chapter with all the research material, quotes, references, conference talks etc where she gained the ideas. It is a great resource of information, she understand the conspiracy very well and now with my data has expanded it into the larger picture of Lucifer's spiritualism. It is a meaty, faith promoting yet fun series, I suggest anyone to read them. (and no I do not profit from them lol) I am just impressed what she has written. I have been to book club meetings where it is clear she is waking people up to what is really going on because of her books.

Great job ndjili !

[gruden]

3. There is a history for such marking in the past - the Lamanites were marked for their willingness to follow Lucifer, likewise the followers of Cain, and the Gadiantons; the Jews were marked by the Nazis in perverted mimicry of the other markings, etc... Followers of Lucifer today often mark themselves with specific tattoos as a means of identification and even communication.

4. In order to incur the penalties and judgments specified in scripture, I think that the mark must be very definite and physical, representing a conscious and willful subscription to the principles and worship of the Luciferian system. Anything less could be repented of, or turned around; but those who subscribe and receive the mark cannot repent during the remainder of earth's mortal history - at least that is the way I read it. I think, in effect, they share culpability for the mass martyrdom that occurs under the authority of the regime, essentially helping in or agreeing at least implicitly to the mass shedding of innocent blood.

Thanks for bringing this thread back on-topic. I do have a disagreement about #3 leading into #4.

Again, John exhorts us to be wise after he talks about the mark. Why? Because while it will lead one down a dark path, it is not obvious from the start. To look at an instance of this in the Book of Mormon:

And the Amlicites were distinguished from the Nephites, for they had marked themselves with red in their foreheads after the manner of the Lamanites...

With this mark the Amlicites join allegiance with the Lamanites and declare themselves against the Nephites. However, while this has great spiritual consequences for them, they are not making an explicit pact with the devil, and I think this is important to note. Further on we read:

Now the Amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves in their foreheads; nevertheless they had come out in open rebellion against God; therefore it was expedient that the curse of God should fall upon them.

The Amlicites didn't truly realize the consequences of what they were doing. They were jumping the Nephite ship, yes, but they weren't making a pact with the devil. Nevertheless, the flaxen cord was fixed securely upon their neck, as it were.

I do not read in the Book of Revelation that accepting the mark means that one has done something so bad they cannot repent or turn back. There are indeed ritualistic overtones, as I mentioned above, but for most they will do it simply to stay in the Babylonian system that they've long accustomed themselves to living. I see it as them not wanting to get kicked out, as opposed to some overtly dark deed.

Indeed, as with the Amlicites, accepting this mark as they accepted theirs put them on a path directly away from God, which has tremendous spiritual consequences. It is a gateway to hell, because the mark means you have accepted this system, even though many won't realize the consequences for doing so until it's too late.

For many, choosing whether or not to accept the mark will be their last chance. Any one of the Amalicites could have repented, but because of the hardness of their hearts it was very unlikely. For those that should know better, like LDS people, coming back would become more difficult the longer they stay in the system, but I don't see how it's impossible, as long as you haven't committed either of two categories of sin.

[gruden]

The church is big on vaccinations. Oh well, so much for that theory. I wonder if Mark will weigh in on what the mark is.

Think, ithink! I was referring to a very specific vaccination, not vaccination in general. Do you see the difference?

Who cares what Mark or anyone else thinks? What do you think, ithink? What meaneth the scriptures to you?

[Rosabella]

This is a guess.... just a guess of something I have been thinking about a lot recently. That we take upon ourselves covenants that could be seen as marks. Under Lucifer they plan to have world wide spiritual initiations into the New Age. There is much talked about in the occult of the third-eye. The spiritual eye between our eyes on our foreheads. I was thinking about how the Hindus do make a dot on their forehead in the place of the third-eye. The Hindu religion is playing a huge part of the occult teachings. I wonder if the mark on the forehead might be a tatoo of the third-eye like just a dot. That when someone takes the :Luciferic initiation they would receive an outward symbol of their covenants that show the world who they belong too. In some Hindu cults they tatoo an eye in the middle of their hand. This could be an interesting possibility. The scriptures say a mark on the forehead OR hand...it does not say both. This makes me ponder the theory of it being just our thoughts and actions for it to be actions we must also have thoughts....

Just and idea floating around in my head LOL

[shadow]

I wonder what the pressing issue/event will be that will force the world to choose the mark or not. Any thoughts? I have my ideas but would like to hear what others think.

[kathyn]

Shadow, here goes my opinion....it will be a worldwide economic catastrophe. Govt's will collapse and martial law will be declared.

I just finished a good LDS Last Days fiction book that had four concurrent world-wide catastrophes all occurring within a two-week period because of the wickedness that was equal to Noah's time. The book is "Ere His Floods of Anger Flow" by John Harmer. What I liked about the book was the swiftness of the onset of the destructions. One day all was fine. The next day the world changed. And many LDS weren't prepared either spiritually or temporally. It also showed how the Law of Consecration could come about. All in all, it's a good read.

[reese]

Shadow, here goes my opinion....it will be a worldwide economic catastrophe. Govt's will collapse and martial law will be declared.

I just finished a good LDS Last Days fiction book that had four concurrent world-wide catastrophes all occurring within a two-week period because of the wickedness that was equal to Noah's time. The book is "Ere His Floods of Anger Flow" by John Harmer. What I liked about the book was the swiftness of the onset of the destructions. One day all was fine. The next day the world changed. And many LDS weren't prepared either spiritually or temporally. It also showed how the Law of Consecration could come about. All in all, it's a good read.

President Benson did say that when calmities come they will come as a wirlwind. I agree, it will be an economic catastrophe. Those who are unaware and unprepared will have a tough choice to make.

[row]

Guys,

The system by that time will be publicly Luciferian - there will be strong elements of idolatry and human sacrifice which will mark it as very evil to all who have eyes to see. Also, acceptance of the mark will represent a declaration of allegiance to Lucifer - and rejection of the mark will represent open rebellion against him. This is the most important element of the mark.

Human sacrifice? don't we have that already in our culture widely accepted... abortion... aborted fetal tissue is a common ingredient in vaccines, just saying... not saying this all correlates with the topic, but something to think about...
we as members don't support abortion but many of "us" (not me) support vaccines... i have even had conversations with other lds moms about vaccines (they brought it up because they know i don't vaccinate) and i mentioned that aborted fetal tissue is in quite a few vaccines and they all said something along the lines of, "well that is sad, but it is for the greater good i guess"... so here we have members of the lds church saying they are anti abortion, yet pro vaccine that has aborted fetal tissue and it is on behalf of the greater good... human sacrifice in our latter days? sacrifice a few on behalf of the rest of us?? the greater good?? maybe a stretch, but something to think about none the less... i could see how vaccines with the tissue of precious babies being something Heavenly Father would deeply despise... these companies make a profit off of the deaths of these little babies... do you think these companies want abortion to stop? no, then they lose a key ingredient... not saying this is the mark of the beast, but i doubt us having pieces of babies in us, how ever small amounts is not favorable in Gods eyes...
anyways, just rambling... i am more of a lurker on this site... i don't consider myself very knowledgeable of the church... but had to mention that one thing... i often feel like a kid listening in on adults conversations on this site... interesting stuff... thanks for the posts guys...