LDS Freedom Forum

Folks, the authenticity of the following statement attributed to the First Presidency comes into question, especially as it seems to some that such a letter so critical of members of the Church would not be made public. Does anyone know where this came from?

...the Church has not found it possible to follow along the lines of the present general tendency in the matter of property rights, taxes, the curtailment of rights and liberties of the people, nor in general the economic policies of what is termed the "New Deal"....unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions....We believe that our real threat comes from within and not from without, and it comes from the underlying spirit common to Naziism, Fascism, and Communism, namely the spirit which would array class against class, which would set up a socialistic state of some sort, which would rob the people of the liberties which we possess under the Constitution, and would set up such a reign of terror as exists now in many parts of Europe....We confess to you that it has not been possible for us to unify our own people even upon the necessity of such a turning about, and therefore we cannot unfortunately, and we say it regretfully, make any practical suggestion to you as to how the nation can be turned about.
(Heber J. Grant, also J. Reuben Clark, Jr. and David O. McKay signed as the First Presidency, written during World War II Letter to the U.S. Treasury, September 30, 1941.)

I've seen it before. But can't vouch for it's accuracy. It certainly seems like it could be true though basing it off their other public statements during that time.

I have compiled conference talks from Heber J. Grant's Years as President. And it is surprising how things like this are often mentioned, by everyone in the council and presidency. I don't think an hour goes by during those year that the Constitution isn't mentioned. It's also worth noting the Congregation, really didn't like when they spoke of it, as speakers mentioning such. J. Reuben Clark even mentioned Dictators were not of God, odd. I guess he was reffering to FDR. And it is clear by the constant 2 decades of the Constitution at Conference that the members weren't listening. I have seen them say that the Constitution was under threat, from within, not from without. That Facism and Nazism and Communism are evil. Hence why they were at war with each other.

Honestly, the talks during these years could have been given today and would sound completely current.


So, I have no reason to doubt its validity.

Then you have those that think the Brethren stopped talking about it because God wanted them to move in a different direction, i.e. it's old news.

I have a different take: They stopped talking about it because we wouldn't listen and because it has become too late to move the clock back. Woe!

pjbrownie wrote:I have a different take: They stopped talking about it because we wouldn't listen and because it has become too late to move the clock back. Woe!

I admit this as a possibility, but I also note the always positive attitude President Hinckley had about our future, and the continuing positive outlook we have had received from President Monson. While there are warnings to prepare ourselves, thier messages seem to be ones of hope, not despair.

Hope is the message of the gospel and the atonement. Fear not that which can harm the body, but that which can damn the eternal soul. There is tremendous hope in the gospel, even for those who don't reach the celestial kingdom. The prophets will always remain optimistic because they possess this hope. That doesn't mean that our mortal existence will not be one of tremendous affliction. We have been warned since the dawn of time. The proclamation to the world is hopeful, but damning at the same time. The days are knocking at the door in which the safety of home, family, hope in Christ, the temple and church houses will be the only places of comfort and solace - and those who carry that hope and unshakable testimony will be the ones for whom chains are made light, IMO.

Here! Here!

The First Presidency and the Apostles have a much wider, overall view of the state of government now and in the future and how Christ will set up His government from New Jerusalem and from Old Jerusalem.

The time for change in the idealogies of those that are our representatives and leaders is almost gone. It would take such an overwhelming effort to root out those of the NWO or other secret combinations that are entrenched in the running of the worlds financial mess and governments, including ours. It would be impossible.

So, I think the brethren especially Pres. Hinkley and Pres. Monson may be speaking hopefully for the final outcome of government in the millineum under Christ's rule and not necessarily about the mess we have now. This government is doomed and as in the days of Noah, must be wiped clean, and started over again without the influence of Satan.

In the April 1965 General Conference, Apostle Ezra Taft Benson included the following 2 statements in his talk:

"The devil knows that if the elders of Israel should ever wake up, they could step forth and help preserve freedom and extend the gospel. Therefore the devil has concentrated, and to a large extent successfully, in neutralizing much of the priesthood. He has reduced them to sleeping giants. His arguments are clever."

"Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and worldwide mission. The war in heaven is raging on the earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?"

It should be clear at least to us, that much, and I dare say most, of the priesthood has been neutralized in the fight to preserve our freedoms and Constitution. Most American LDSs have not done their homework, and are hardly prepared to step forward and help save this country. Recent conference talks of President Monson and President Hinkley included messages of hope. But they delivered warnings as well. I would not expect them to make a public statement that, for example, Satan will make war with the saints and overcome them, and have power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations, as did John, or that because the Gentiles are failing to adequately repent the remnant of the house of Jacob will go thru them as a lion among the sheep, as Nephi warned us, or even that we have upheld secret combinations and suffered them to get above us and will suffer loss of freedoms because of that failing, as Moroni warned.

skmo wrote:note the always positive attitude President Hinckley had about our future, and the continuing positive outlook we have had received from President Monson. While there are warnings to prepare ourselves, thier messages seem to be ones of hope, not despair.

It seems that the message of Faith, Hope and Charity is typically the last warning message before the destruction of a wicked civilization. Just go back and read the Book of Mormon and you'll see the same pattern - Pride cycle - from obedience and living righteously to complacency, laziness, pride, immorality then the prophets giving strong warnings until the people are at the point of no return - ending with teachings of faith, hope and charity, then destruction. (see Ether, warnings of Secret Combinations then chap 12 on Faith, Hope, Charity. Also, Moroni 8.)

I found my source for that above 1941 statement to the US Treasury Dept. attributed to the First Presidency. I came on an 8/04 email from Brian/LatterDayConservative advising of a 6 August 7PM meeting in Denny's in Lehi. Brian, where did you get it from?

lundbaek wrote:Brian, where did you get it from?

I got it from John Coltharp (click for online source), after receiving multiple questions regaring this statement I sent an email to John for more details, here is the conversation so far:

Brian: The authenticity of a certain statement has come into question, First Presidency Letter 1941... I am wondering if you could tell me where you found this statement and any other information regarding the authenticity of it.

John: A couple of years ago I called the Church Archives about getting an original un-shortened copy, and they said that the University of Utah had the original copy. I called the University of Utah, and they looked for it, and said it wasn't in the catalog, because it would be in their manuscript collection, and that I would have to come in and look for it myself. I never did do that.

I imagine the US Treasury dept. archives may have a copy as well. I'd be interested in getting a copy of the entire letter, however.

Brian: Did Church Archives confirm the authenticity of the shortened copy? Where did you originally find this statement?

John: It was so long ago I don't remember where I got it, or exactly what the Archives said about it. I'm going to look into it again, and try and find the original. You'd think a shocking letter like this wouldn't just slip into the past, but would have been preserved due to it's historical and doctrinal significance.

Here is a quote by Heber J. Grant expressing shock and perhaps a bit of hurt of how the saints aren't listening to the Brethren on matters the saints consider to be secular.

May the Lord help us so to live that you will sustain us, and may I never live long enough that when I am in favor of a thing and all the brethren are in favor of it, such as was the case when we were opposed to bringing whisky back, that Utah and the Mormons will be in opposition to us. I would almost have staked my life, knowing that the people know that we did not want to have whisky again, that the people would not have voted to bring it back.

-Heber J. Grant 1942

It appears then that the Church Archives has acknowledged the existence of the original letter, and the"U" stated that it would be in its manuscript collection.

"A couple of years ago I called the Church Archives about getting an original un-shortened copy, and they said that the University of Utah had the original copy. I called the University of Utah, and they looked for it, and said it wasn't in the catalog, because it would be in their manuscript collection, and that I would have to come in and look for it myself."

Even though it dates back to 1941, I find it significant enough to be used to convince certain people that the problem of LDS indifference to freedom and the Constitution is real.

The April 1965 statements by Ezra Taft Benson also serve as an indictment against those of us who in 1965 did not respond to the call to save the Constitution.

This 1941 First Presidency Letter to the US Treasury has been verified... (thanks to Connor Boyack for doing further research)

see the entire letter and other details here, connorboyack.com

LDSConservative wrote:This 1941 First Presidency Letter to the US Treasury has been verified... (thanks to Connor Boyack for doing further research)

see the entire letter and other details here, connorboyack.com

Great read.....Thank you for the link!

Awesome! Thank you all for making the effort to research this... Impressive quote, I must say. (Now I ask, will I choose to let it move me to repent and forsake my sins? It sure helps reinforce that desire.)

ChelC wrote:Hope is the message of the gospel and the atonement. Fear not that which can harm the body, but that which can damn the eternal soul. There is tremendous hope in the gospel, even for those who don't reach the celestial kingdom. The prophets will always remain optimistic because they possess this hope. That doesn't mean that our mortal existence will not be one of tremendous affliction. We have been warned since the dawn of time. The proclamation to the world is hopeful, but damning at the same time. The days are knocking at the door in which the safety of home, family, hope in Christ, the temple and church houses will be the only places of comfort and solace - and those who carry that hope and unshakable testimony will be the ones for whom chains are made light, IMO.

Yeh ChelC, you go girl, We've got ChelC!!--B.G., Sharon, other sisters, what great insights you gals have!

Bob

Thank you, Connor, for your effort in bringing this to light. It comes at a good time during the efforts of a few of us in this area to promote awareness of our (LDS) responsibility to the US Constitution and of our slothfulness in honouring that responsibility.

Spence wrote:Here is a quote by Heber J. Grant expressing shock and perhaps a bit of hurt of how the saints aren't listening to the Brethren on matters the saints consider to be secular.

May the Lord help us so to live that you will sustain us, and may I never live long enough that when I am in favor of a thing and all the brethren are in favor of it, such as was the case when we were opposed to bringing whisky back, that Utah and the Mormons will be in opposition to us. I would almost have staked my life, knowing that the people know that we did not want to have whisky again, that the people would not have voted to bring it back.

-Heber J. Grant 1942

Thank you Spence, I found this quote helpful as well as the one from the OP. It is just amazing to me that the church largely ignores the advice of the prophet on what they deem to be temporal or political matters. Very disheartening and yet it also shows how merciful the Lord is to us in our disobedience, and how he continues to reach out to us to the extent that we allow.

Thank you for posting the link to these documents. All of them were very enlightening and shed much light on the awful state the Church now finds itself in, not to mention why it's in this position. It explains so much of where we are as a people, of the fundamental principles that guide this Church (never seen a better summation), and it confirms so much.

This quote really just sums up the Fed for me, when LDS member and chairman of the Fed Eccles said (regarding the First Presidency letter), that it was, "every bit as unenlightened as [he] expected it to be". (I also thought their joy when reading the "Church controlled" Deseret News editorial was hilarious. Clearly, Eccles had no idea how the Church is run.)

Also, the historical background was much appreciated. It confirmed for me that key to building a Zion society is avoiding government help. People follow whoever feeds them. If they manage to feed themselves, they stand independent. If they receive help from neighbors or local religious organizations, community ties are strengthened and the group stands independent. But take money or help from the government and the only ties strengthened are your obligation to whoever is in power.

That said, I look forward with hope to the future. God is in charge of this Church and eventually we will be purified. Hopefully, I'll live long enough and righteously enough to see it while in mortality. But seeing it from the other side will work, too.

Original_Intent wrote: It is just amazing to me that the church largely ignores the
advice of the prophet on what they deem to be temporal or political
matters. Very disheartening and yet it also shows how merciful the
Lord is to us in our disobedience, and how he continues to reach out
to us to the extent that we allow.

When you say "the church" do you mean the church
membership as a whole? If that's what you mean then
I whole-heartedly agree with your statement. We can
choose not to follow the prophets' advice in temporal
and political matters if we wish, and by so doing we
also get to enjoy the consequences of that choice.

What a mess this country's in! It must be the democrats
(no it's the republicans) (no it's the right-wingers)
(no it's the left-wingers) (no it's the Muslims)
(no it's the terrorists) (no it's the Zionists)
(no it's the GAYS) (no it's the evil Illuminati)
(no it's the LDG's) (no it's the Communists)
(no it's the international bankers) (no it's the FED)
(no it's the U.N.) (no it's the globalists)
(no it's the [fill in the blank]) who are totally
to blame for the awful situation in this country!!!!!

Whine...whine....whine...

Would anyone like some cheese with that "whine?

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

Helping people prepare for uncertain times ahead:
http://www.preparednessyellowpages.com

A Me wrote:Also, the historical background was much appreciated. It confirmed for me that key to building a Zion society is avoiding government help. People follow whoever feeds them. If they manage to feed themselves, they stand independent. If they receive help from neighbors or local religious organizations, community ties are strengthened and the group stands independent. But take money or help from the government and the only ties strengthened are your obligation to whoever is in power.

Well, remember when Jesus fed the multitudes he had their attention, but when the food was finally done they left. So I agree with you that people follow whoever feeds them, but that following is transitory if the free lunch stops. Government will keep feeding you until you forget how to feed yourself and become dependent. Christ wants us to keep the big picture in mind, which apparently people didn't have when they elected FDR.

That article was a very interesting read, especially in these times when we contemplate the 'War on Terror'.

LDSConservative wrote:This 1941 First Presidency Letter to the US Treasury has been verified... (thanks to Connor Boyack for doing further research)

see the entire letter and other details here, connorboyack.com

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I tried verifying this outside Qo70 Anderson's book and could not. A co-worker emailed the LDS library and their response was that they had no knowledge of it.

Connor Boyack doesn't verify it's authenticity, just that the letter exists. It could have been made up by the fellow who sent it to Eccles, who knows. Regardless, it's great to know the actual source. It's too bad Elder Anderson didn't talk of the source or say he verified it with the 1st presidency or something like that.

That letter was such a bold declaration against war! And Socialism! It just shows that we are currently in a very bad place.

As I consider the declarations by Prophets and Apostles against socialism and its various practices, especially welfare, warnings against plans to destroy our freedoms, and the powerful admonitons to support, sustain, and protect the U.S. Constitution, even just since I joined the Church in 1960, it is so clear to me now that, as stated in that letter, "There are numbers of the Mormon people who have not fully responded to the teachings of the Church nor to be [sic] tenets of its organizations, and who are, therefore, lukewarm in the support of the Church, its policies, principles, and doctrines." I see the sad truth in the statement that "...it has not been possible for us to unify our own people even upon the necessity of such a turning about,...".

As I consider these things, I am surprised that the LDGs have not already turned on the Church in all their wrath.

An acquaintance of mine was recently approached by his bishop and asked to come up with a plan to provide education to ward members on the US Constitution. He is working on it, and I really hope it flies. But I am very much afraid the plan will be stopped by the stake president or area authority.

Thanks for this verification. Interesting stuff.

I must agree with the last poster. I live in England and let me tell you, many members espouse some degree of socialism, even among the leaders. I've probably met 4-5 people from England in my entire lifetime that I would say were conservatives in the meaningful sense. This is even worse in other countries I suspect (except the US of course).

I just wish members would undertake a serious study of everything Church leaders have said on politics/agency/secret combinations before getting set in their own views and then seeing the words of men like Benson, Romney, Clark, McKay etc. as "just opinion" or "only relevant to their time" etc. They do not see they are prioritizing the teachings of the world above sound counsel...

What can be done?