Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

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What do you think about Joseph Fielding Smith's moon prophecy?

He spoke out about something quasi-political. As a Church official, he should have known to leave well enough alone.
6
4%
It was his personal opinion and he was wrong about it. Big deal.
49
35%
I think this is proof he was a "false prophet."
1
1%
He's human...sometimes even Prophets or Apostles get stuff wrong.
26
18%
Joseph Fielding Smith was right about the moon, and still is to this day.
60
42%
 
Total votes: 142
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Quiet Cricket
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Quiet Cricket »

Interesting topic. About Joseph Smith saying men lived on the moon, I've always thought they could exist in a different dimension like the spirit world on this earth or in an unlimited number of other ways completely unknown to us. As humans I believe we know practically nothing about things outside of our sphere.

firend
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by firend »

Quiet Cricket wrote:Interesting topic. About Joseph Smith saying men lived on the moon, I've always thought they could exist in a different dimension like the spirit world on this earth or in an unlimited number of other ways completely unknown to us. As humans I believe we know practically nothing about things outside of our sphere.

you make an excellent point about the dimension thing. I also agree about us humans not knowing a whole lot outside of our sphere.

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mchlwise
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by mchlwise »

Cowell wrote:You do realize the moon's atmosphere is nearly a perfect vacuum, right? i.e, the lunar atmosphere is less than one trillionth the density of the Earth's atmosphere at sea level. There is NO possibility of friction whatsoever. It is a more perfect vacuum than anything that can be created on earth. So think inside a light-bulb times about a million.

So yeah, the "tiny, tiny bit" you saw the flag move...which by all means would happen on earth, is impossible on the moon. Perhaps we can get Dr. Jones to weigh in on this.

In the meantime, watch the clip again at 2:37, and this time as you watch think...Vacuum, no friction, Nevada High Desert... And the video will make a lot more sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1UEv2PIzl4&NR=1
The astronaut moves between the camera and the flag. We have, from the perspective of the camera, no idea how close he is to either (the camera or the flag). Why couldn't he have slightly bumped the flag on the way by, causing it to move as it did in a vacuum?

As far as the wires, the only "evidence" I saw was the glints of light - that line up perfectly with glints/glare from helmets, etc. It's an artifact in the camera/lens, not an actual reflection off of something. Do any photography with large lenses of bright glare from the sun, etc., and you will see the same thing.

In the clip where the astronaut is supposedly being lifted up by the wires, he has his feet on the ground and has clasped hands with the other astronaut who he has asked to help him up. At 1/6 gravity, I don't see any problem with a reasonably strong man being able to lift himself up as he did - without wires.

Bottom line for me: I don't know if we really went to the moon or not - I wasn't there - but I haven't seen anything to convince me that the videos show anything other than what they purport to show, and those looking for "mistakes" or proof in the videos are unconvincing to me. I have yet to see an argument that I can't refute using simple logic and basic understanding of physics. On the other hand, to convince so many people who worked/work at NASA, to be so secretive about all of it, and for not one of them to provide any proof or even to come forward themselves and just say they faked it, for 40 years now... seems more difficult to me than just going to the moon as they say they did.

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Cowell
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

Mchlwise,

It's interesting that two people can live in the same world, and see things so differently.

For instance, I, on the other hand, haven't seen any good evidence to convince me that the videos the government has shown us is what they purport to be. Putting forward seemingly "logical explanations" for the videos is unconvincing to me. I have yet to see a good argument from anyone that supports the idea that we did in fact go to the moon. You overestimate the ability of Americans to think for themselves and underestimate the governments ability to spread propaganda and rewrite history, which happens all the time.

You also need to come up with a better explanation for the flag moving. Your argument relies too heavily on a proposition that is less than likely. I want to hear your "logical" explanation for why the flag moved after the actor-naut did not touch the flag. It's very easy to claim to make logical arguments when you can rewrite facts any way you want them. However, it is obvious he is nowhere near the flag.

firend
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by firend »

I just went to some links on this since it has peaked my interest a little more.

As for the wires, ?

When the astromen leap up and slowly come back down, why does the dirt they kick up come down so quickly? I mean the dirt is actually going down at the same time as they are moving up.....and they are in a near vacuum or whatever.....hmmmmmm

I am going to watch more

oh ya, the way the wire seems to lift the guy up lol

I have always thought the footage looked fake, but now it really looks fake lol

firend
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by firend »

I reposted part of this to combine it :)



I just went to some links on this since it has peaked my interest a little more.

As for the wires, ?

When the astromen leap up and slowly come back down, why does the dirt they kick up come down so quickly? I mean the dirt is actually going down at the same time as they are moving up.....and they are in a near vacuum or whatever.....hmmmmmm

I am going to watch more

oh ya, the way the wire seems to lift the guy up lol

I have always thought the footage looked fake, but now it really looks fake lol








lol

I just watched the flag video. The flag clearly is moving on its own.

I would really have to research this for a lot of hours, but as of now I think I slightly lean more toward we did not go to the moon.

I know the government thinks we are stupid. Look at all the people they fooled on 911, twa 800, etc

Also here is some food for thought. The good ole UFO. Has anyone noticed as our technology changes, so does the pictures and drawings of UFO's? I mean in the 1940's the roswell UFO looked so sophisticated in that day and age. If you lived then, you would think wow what a advanced machine.

Well, 60 years later the 1940"s UFO looks like a kid drew it. Why? because WE have advanced so far beyond 1940"s technology that today the UFO's look wow sophisticated.

My issue is....If UFO's are many light years in advance over us in technology, then how come there space ships are morphing in looks at our human pace? lol

It is like that guy who was taken up in the spaceship in Az. He talked about being transported in the air up to the ship. Then they did horrible things to him. PROBLEM:
When he was put back to earth he remembers the aliens physically dropping him off.

Hmmmm you mean they beamed him up, but had to manually drop him off.....sound like the military drugs were wearing off by then!

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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by buffalo_girl »

Well, this topic just drew me in like a black hole! I'll try to simply leave a bit of information without a personal opinion.

Here is some interesting information on the 'occult' connection to NASA.

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/mad-s ... k-parsons/

and

here is a statement from a book published in 1967 which I posted on Will Grigg's blog a few days ago: http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/

Mr. Grigg asked:
"What's the purpose of spending obscene sums of money on a huge rocket booster that is grotesquely over-powered for use in low earth orbit, but has insufficient Delta-V to carry out a lunar mission?"

Annonymous said:
"The Report From Iron Mountain, On the Possibility and Desirability of Peace",1967, discusses possible "Substitutes for the Functions of War" which 'functions' were previously defined in the 'document'.

Although considered by some to be a political satire, it's contents are prophetic.

Briefly...under the heading of Economic Substitutes:

b) A giant open-end space research program, aimed at unreachable targets.

...under the heading of Political Substitutes:

a) An omnipresent, virtually omnipotent international police force.
b) An established and recognized extraterrestrial menace.


...under the heading of Ecological Substitutes(only 1):

A comprehensive program of applied eugenics.

...under Cultural Substitutes for War:

No replacement institution offered. Scientific. The secondary requirements of the space research, social welfare, and/or eugenics programs.

I guess that means an "open-end space research program" is to provide the "circus" part of the Roman equation.

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Moss Man
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Moss Man »

I noticed that Alex Jones had a guest on his show, today, that has walked on the moon. Did anyone listen? What do you think of this?

cayenne
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by cayenne »

Firend, you make a great point about the moon dust vs the man leaping. I think I am dumb lol, but not too dumb to realize simple physics would say the dirt dropping and the man dropping should be similar.

The dirt dropped quick(like it would here on earth :)) yet the man dropped slowly like he was on a wire.


Moss man, love the name and your picture lol. I have not been to Alex Jones in a couple days, I suppose I better head on over there.

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mchlwise
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by mchlwise »

Cowell wrote:You also need to come up with a better explanation for the flag moving. Your argument relies too heavily on a proposition that is less than likely. I want to hear your "logical" explanation for why the flag moved after the actor-naut did not touch the flag. It's very easy to claim to make logical arguments when you can rewrite facts any way you want them. However, it is obvious he is nowhere near the flag.
I went back and watched 3 times when he went by the flag and the flag moved.

What basis do you have for stating that "it is obvious he is nowhere near the flag"?

We can see the base of the flag, but we only see the astronaut from about the waist up. We can't see his feet, and we have no frame of reference for judging the distance he is from the flag.

Your own argument (and again, just use some logic and common sense) that it was some kind of breeze from him jumping by requires that he be fairly close to the flag - within a couple of feet at the most.

It's "obvious"? Hardly. "Nowhere near"? Then you've disproven your own theory.

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mchlwise
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by mchlwise »

firend wrote:When the astromen leap up and slowly come back down, why does the dirt they kick up come down so quickly? I mean the dirt is actually going down at the same time as they are moving up.....and they are in a near vacuum or whatever.....hmmmmmm
I'm not sure what footage you're looking at, but in this video posted by cowell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNL ... re=related

Starting at about 12 seconds, you can see dust kicked up as he walks away from the camera. The dust kicks up, and casts a shadow on the surface as it moves away from him. Judging by the movement of the shadow, the dust stays off the surface for a significant amount of time, and then seems to dissipate (the shadow fades).

When he then jumps up, dust also kicks up and appears to disappear. I can see how this can be confused for falling back down long before his foot does, but when you look carefully and study the astronaut's shadow, when the dust is kicked up, the shadow fades and becomes blurry in the area where the dust was kicked up while he is still in the air, indicating that the dust is also still in the air.

To me, it appears that gravity is working the same on the dust and the person, and that the dust which was kicked mostly upwards dissipates evenly in nearly all directions - as it would in no atmosphere.

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Cowell
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

He was nowhere near enough the flag to touch it. Anyone can make that observation...
mchlwise wrote:...we only see the astronaut from about the waist up. We can't see his feet, and we have no frame of reference for judging the distance he is from the flag.
Apparently you have not seen the original video that I posted on this. Find your frame of reference during the first entire minute of the video. Contrast this with the giant blob that goes jumping past directly in front of the camera, after adjusting the camera, at 2:37. He is so close to the camera that we can only see him waist up, as you observed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1UEv2PIzl4&NR=1

cayenne
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by cayenne »

mchlwise wrote:
firend wrote:When the astromen leap up and slowly come back down, why does the dirt they kick up come down so quickly? I mean the dirt is actually going down at the same time as they are moving up.....and they are in a near vacuum or whatever.....hmmmmmm
I'm not sure what footage you're looking at, but in this video posted by cowell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNL ... re=related

Starting at about 12 seconds, you can see dust kicked up as he walks away from the camera. The dust kicks up, and casts a shadow on the surface as it moves away from him. Judging by the movement of the shadow, the dust stays off the surface for a significant amount of time, and then seems to dissipate (the shadow fades).

When he then jumps up, dust also kicks up and appears to disappear. I can see how this can be confused for falling back down long before his foot does, but when you look carefully and study the astronaut's shadow, when the dust is kicked up, the shadow fades and becomes blurry in the area where the dust was kicked up while he is still in the air, indicating that the dust is also still in the air.

To me, it appears that gravity is working the same on the dust and the person, and that the dust which was kicked mostly upwards dissipates evenly in nearly all directions - as it would in no atmosphere.

are you serious lol....i mean really? i guess cowell is right that people see things differently. I honestly don't care if we went to the moon, but that dirt is falling faster than the human, hense the human had a wire on him or something.

cayenne
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by cayenne »

i just watched again with some people, sorry lol that is not his shadow.

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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by creator »

Joseph Fielding Smith said "We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it...The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen."

Joseph Smith Jr. said their are people living on the moon.

Brigham Young said there are people living on the sun.

Question for all the consider... what is the purpose of any planet, if not to support life!?


My conclusions... I trust and believe the Lord's prophets over anyone in government.

minuet1
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by minuet1 »

Living just a stone's throw from Kennedy Space Center and having numerous friends work out there I find this topic very interesting. I attended a presentation several years ago about everyday items we take for granted that are born from the space program. Digital watches were one. Here are two links to articles about other inventions that sprang from NASA:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife ... index.html

http://science.howstuffworks.com/ten-na ... ntions.htm

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Cowell
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

minuet1,
cowell wrote:Thanks for your comment... One thing you have to consistently remind yourself of, when you are thinking about the moon landing, is the fact that we do have an incredibly technologically advanced space program. Scientists know everything about the moon, and I don't doubt we are capable of sending everything including the kitchen sink there, but that doesn't mean man has been there. There is a big big difference.

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mchlwise
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by mchlwise »

Cowell wrote:Apparently you have not seen the original video that I posted on this. Find your frame of reference during the first entire minute of the video. Contrast this with the giant blob that goes jumping past directly in front of the camera, after adjusting the camera, at 2:37. He is so close to the camera that we can only see him waist up, as you observed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1UEv2PIzl4&NR=1
It was the video that you posted that I was referring to, but it's clear you won't look at it with an open mind and allow any other theory than the one you already hold... so I'm done on this topic.

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Cowell
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

mchlwise wrote: It was the video that you posted that I was referring to, but it's clear you won't look at it with an open mind and allow any other theory than the one you already hold... so I'm done on this topic.
I won't look at it with an open mind? And you're the one that is done with this topic?

Why won't you answer the question of why the flag moved? Is it because there is no answer, mchlwise?

When you come back to the thread, look up "cognitive dissonance": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Double think is another good one to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

These two theories explain the world Americans live in. This is why NASA could "get away" with it. And this is why the government knows it can get away with everything it gets away with everyday. You think someone at Nasa would speak up if they had an inkling something looked fishy? Well, I would also think every American soldier would catch on that everything about the current Wars is entirely fishy and that they would come home. I would think every American would wake up and demand this. But we don't, because, collectively, the entire Nation has been had, again. This is the problem, Americans do not understand how brainwashed they are. They say things like, "My other trusted Americans who are so smart and free would speak up if something were awry." But the opposite is true. Americans live in denial, and they don't even know it. I am sure you think I am being rude...I am not. It would serve you well, mchlwise, to think long and hard about this. Look around you and ask yourself, how much do the people around me really know and understand their reality? I submit to you, the vast majority know nothing.
LDSConservative wrote: My conclusions... I trust and believe the Lord's prophets over anyone in government.
Really appreciate your perspective Brian. Because the news was flooded with the Moon landing's 40th anniversary excitement a couple weeks ago, I started reading articles and watching some clips on it. I had never looked into this before (which is also a good example of how NASA and the gov could get away with something like this), but when I did, the evidence spoke for itself. It is another great example of how the government has pulled the wool over the eyes of the masses for decades.

It is especially interesting to think about this in the context of the space race with Russia, running parallel with the arms race. Then it is incredible to know of some of the cover ups and lengths they went to to pull this off. (See this video at 29 mins through 34:30: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +fox&hl=en) Watch that segment and you will see the Gadiantons at work.

Most importantly, after coming to this realization, I recalled the very direct words of Joseph Fielding Smith. It is very interesting to think about how aware he must have been to have made his statement.

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mchlwise
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by mchlwise »

Cowell wrote:I won't look at it with an open mind? And you're the one that is done with this topic?

Why won't you answer the question of why the flag moved? Is it because there is no answer, mchlwise?

When you come back to the thread, look up "cognitive dissonance": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Double think is another good one to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
I haven't the slightest idea what cognitive dissonance or double think have to do with this topic other than your own choice to ignore the theory which I put forth on why the flag moved and now accuse me of not answering that question. You responded to what I said and even attempted to refute it, but you now accuse me of never answering the question. Talk about double think.

Having an open mind requires that all theories and possibilities be examined and discarded until only one remains, and not coming to a conclusion until that happens. As I stated in my original post in this topic, I don't know if we went there or not. I haven't made a conclusion one way or the other. Examining evidence and looking at the theories, I haven't yet seen something to convincingly refute the "official" account. I saw the flag move as he went by. I didn't and haven't seen anything to conclusively determine WHY the flag moved. Was it air he displaced as he went by? I can see how it could be. But we don't have a sufficient frame of reference to determine how far he is from the flag, and it is just as likely that he brushed against it slightly as he went by. Therefore there are two contradictory theories on the "flag moving" evidence, each as plausible as the other, so neither leads to a conclusion. That's not "cognitive dissonance". That's an open mind.

You can think what you want to think or believe, I don't really care. But try looking at things in a more open minded manner.

Finally, before you accuse me of cognitive dissonance, or double think, or even hypocrisy because I said I was done with this topic and have posted again in it: I haven't addressed the topic again, I've responded to your post - which was fairly off the topic anyway.

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Cowell
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

mchlwise, Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm not open minded. I have been discussing the evidence with you. I answered your question about touching the flag. I told you to watch the rest of the video that I posted which does give a frame of reference. Why do you keep saying that it doesn't? To me it is obvious that he was not near enough to the flag to touch it as he hopped by. As you even stated, you can only see him from the waist up when he hops by, he is that far from the flag. Contrast that with the picture below. The statement about his feet somehow causing the flag to move was especially curious. Believe me, I have an open mind, but you are asking me to think harder about an idea that is at odds with what I can see with my own eyes. I don't know what else to say about it. I would be surprised if anyone agreed with you on that. If you want to discuss some other hypothetical theory about it, I would love to.

As for cognitive dissonance, you had stated earlier that you didn't know how NASA could get away with it, considering the number of people involved in the moon landing and the lack of officials speaking out.
mchlwise wrote:to convince so many people who worked/work at NASA, to be so secretive about all of it, and for not one of them to provide any proof or even to come forward themselves and just say they faked it, for 40 years now... seems more difficult to me than just going to the moon as they say they did.
I simply explained two of the most important theories that help explain why this happens. This is on topic. It is the whole point of what the conspirators do and why. Hence it is the whole point to this thread. When you can't see the truth, they win, we lose. The prophet spoke the truth. The rest of the world, including myself until recently, chooses to use cognitive dissonance to explain away the prophets words (He made a mistake, it is his personal opinion, he is only human...). Hence the alternative choices I listed above, only one of which we can possibly accept as true, IMO.
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J
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space

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Cowell
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

How are these not doctored photos? The crosshairs on the camera lens end up behind the images. Hear the discussion at 27:20 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +fox&hl=en
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ready2prepare
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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by ready2prepare »

Last summer someone asked me if I believed that American astronauts actually walked on the moon.

Well, I believed it 100% in 1969 when I watched the extensive TV coverage of the Apollo 11 moon landing...and I believed the sad story of Apollo 13 that had such a happy ending...and the movie "Apollo 13" made years later which seemed to pretty closely follow what I had heard in the media about that mission... and so on.

But my answer in 2008 to the person who asked me was, "I believe there is evidence to suggest that they did, and evidence to suggest that they didn't."

When one puts one own emotional baggage (especially the need to be "right") out of the way, both scenarios are equally possible (IMHO).

Does my eternal salvation depend on my supporting either view?

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Re: Was Joseph Fielding Smith wrong about the Moon and Space?

Post by Cowell »

ready2prepare,

I think you are a wise lady. Having believed the story of going to the moon for years (because no one ever explained to me evidence to believe the contrary) and having recently come to a realization of this evidence, I can honestly say that I believe that we did not go to the moon and I do not have the desire to be right. I am sure that may surprise some people, but I sincerely search for the truth. Nothing is more important to me. And there have been many times on this forum when I have admitted that I was wrong. Just ask Mahonri. I have no shame in doing so. But I have not seen any evidence to suggest I should believe the astronauts went to the moon. For me, the fact that a lot of people believe this - is not evidence. In fact, I tend to think with most historical and political things, something is likely incorrect if everyone believes one story.

I also know others are entitled to their own opinions. I have no problem with others expressing those opinions here. I will point out if something seems incorrect in someone else's analysis of the situation. This does not mean that I am not happy to discuss it further if they come to the table with a thoughtful analysis and can withstand cowell's scrutiny of the situation. Generally, people get offended because they don't like being challenged. This is not helpful, as I just want to get at the truth. I hope if anyone has more truth to offer, they will not hesitate to speak up. I do refuse, however, to take the middle road, so as not to offend. That is a disservice to those of us who are seeking for truth.

I do believe the salvation and even the physical well being of many of our Father in Heaven's children here on earth does depend on us speaking up when we are right, especially about things that would help us comprehend the deeper mysteries of what is happening here on earth, if people had the courage to look at them and comprehend them. The last thing we need is people not speaking up about the truth of these seemingly small things.

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