LDS Freedom Forum

If there are two statments that contradict each other. One from Ezra Taft Benson, and one from ithink. I think I'll listen to what Ezra Taft Benson says over ithink. But that's just me.

Joppa wrote:If there are two statments that contradict each other. One from Ezra Taft Benson, and one from ithink. I think I'll listen to what Ezra Taft Benson says over ithink. But that's just me.

The same could be said about anyone else who posts on this forum — including you and I, of course.

Contradictions are interesting things, especially because contradictions might only exist in our perceptions. Of course, perception determines reality, so your words are very wise, Joppa. If you perceive a contradiction between the statement of a prophet and the statement of anyone else, it is a wise thing to make an attempt to more fully understand the words of the prophet, who speaks for the Lord, that the words of one who does not speak for the Lord. Even with the words of prophets, the only sure resolution to contradictions is the Spirit. The words and deeds of the prophets have proven to lead me to more truth than the words and deeds of anyone else. With that in mind, I intend to continue my study of the "business" of the prophets.

The following might be of use to some people (not sure if it's been mentioned yet, too many posts and not enough time to sift through them all):

"While living amid the foreseen “distress of nations, with perplexity,” members also have prophetic leadership which provides direction. (Luke 21:25; see also D&C 88:79.) Several times a year, we sustain fifteen Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators. So we know to whom to look, even though there are a few members who “seek not the welfare of Zion” and “set themselves up for a light.” (2 Ne. 26:29.) Furthermore, the Prophet Joseph clearly taught that recipients of that apostleship possess “all the keys that ever were, or that can be conferred upon mortal man.” (Cited by Brigham Young, in Journal of Discourses, 1:137.) - Elder Neal A. Maxwell

I also have an mp3 of that and it's clear that the "few members" he's referencing are from the Qof12, etc., and not the general populous as some might suppose - notice the construction of the sentence. The video copy is even better.

Yet another reminder that we need to seek after and verify the truth of what they say. We certainly should not rely on blindly following everything coming out of everyone's mouth...we need to apply a few filters to make sure that which ends up being distilled is the truth.

I wanted to bump this topic back to the top. I find it odd that the church has spent billions (I'm hearing they did) to support something so worldly. I understand cleaning up downtown and making shopping/eating available to temple square visitors, but there is a lot of irony in it.

Col. Flagg wrote:

armedtotheteeth wrote:Sorry for the bad play on words, but I wanted to get people to look. Can I question aspects of the churches business side without questioning the saving souls side? Are they linked or one in the same? Example, my wife and I have been discussing the city creek shopping center here in SLC. I don’t like it! In fact I think it’s a great and spacious building that will be jam pack full of modern day golden idols! Get out of debt, live frugally, dress modestly, don’t listen to bad music, don’t be of the world………but here, here is a building full of everything antithesis of what we know to be true and precious!

Do all business deals go before the brethren? Are they done by revelation? Or are they just business?
I am not opposed to the business side, just question something’s.

Thoughts?

My initial thought was why in the world would the church spend $2 BILLION rennovating a mall in downtown SLC? To me, it seemed that the church was interested in creating an image for itself, something that the Lord and Savior couldn't have been too happy with and certainly the money could be spent for better and more righteous, spiritual purposes, such as helping those in need, missionary work, etc. instead of sprucing up a stinking shopping mall (of all things). How is/was this an appropriate use of church monies??? There are a lot of LDS families with no health insurance, children that are not getting enough food, parents that are out of work, etc. who could use some assistance. However, since then, I've come to understand that the money did not come from tithing funds (good thing) but rather from the church's business arm and I've decided to stop questioning some of the things the brethren are doing and have faith that they are in tune with the Lord and are not doing anything contrary to his will. I think shadow may be on to something when he says the complex may be used for some other purpose(s) in the future.

My daughter moved to San Diego while her husband went to law school. They lived in an apartment right behind the San Diego Temple.
I could walk to the Temple and do a session. I was startled at how beautiful it is. But then I had a feeling of resentment. I wondered about the money it took to build such an elaborate building. It also seemed like "Showing Off" to me.
As I sat through the session, I knew my feelings were wrong. I repented. I trust our Prophet and this Church. I trust them with my tithing money. I knew in my heart, it wasn't my call.

This thread is evidence of why the Lord is going to destroy us. All we can do is argue with each other. Contention. Contention. Contention. Not saying I'm perfect, but we Gentiles really suck, and when the Lord's people become ripened in iniquity, bad things start happening. We've got to stop the contention. We do it in the name of understanding so that we can salve our consciences, but we are really digging our own graves. I mostly agree with ithink's opinions, but who stinking cares? Leave me to my beliefs and I'll leave you to yours. Preach to me in love and quit taking offense that I disagree with what I view as making the temple into a den of thieves. I'll preach an opposite view point to you in love and I'll not be offended that you have such esteem for the head of the Church. We are arguing about trivia, and in doing so we are missing the whole point. In the end it is all about love and charity, and I've seen none of that on this thread. All I've seen are offense and defense. We think we are preaching in love when we speak to someone condescendingly as if they were wrong to try to "save" them from themselves. That seems puffed up to me. There are kernels of truth in every post I've seen. Unfortunately those kernels are largely a second thought to a pretty acrid argument that is concluded with a smiley face, just to show that all the malice and intolerance that was typed up in a post was done so "lovingly." Feel free to read sarcasm into that last sentence. We can do better. Jesus expects us to. We've covenanted to.

chasetafer0707 wrote:This thread is evidence of why the Lord is going to destroy us. All we can do is argue with each other. Contention. Contention. Contention. Not saying I'm perfect, but we Gentiles really suck, and when the Lord's people become ripened in iniquity, bad things start happening. We've got to stop the contention. We do it in the name of understanding so that we can salve our consciences, but we are really digging our own graves. I mostly agree with ithink's opinions, but who stinking cares? Leave me to my beliefs and I'll leave you to yours. Preach to me in love and quit taking offense that I disagree with what I view as making the temple into a den of thieves. I'll preach an opposite view point to you in love and I'll not be offended that you have such esteem for the head of the Church. We are arguing about trivia, and in doing so we are missing the whole point. In the end it is all about love and charity, and I've seen none of that on this thread. All I've seen are offense and defense. We think we are preaching in love when we speak to someone condescendingly as if they were wrong to try to "save" them from themselves. That seems puffed up to me. There are kernels of truth in every post I've seen. Unfortunately those kernels are largely a second thought to a pretty acrid argument that is concluded with a smiley face, just to show that all the malice and intolerance that was typed up in a post was done so "lovingly." Feel free to read sarcasm into that last sentence. We can do better. Jesus expects us to. We've covenanted to.

Chase, this post is going completely away from the thread and perhaps should be a new topic. I did find this, and wanted to share it
with you.

" There is some justification for their contention, because they are passionate in their beliefs. If we on the receiving end of their brash remarks, are able to see beyond their abrasive behavior and peel through the layers, then perhaps we might be able to put ourselves in their shoes and see things from their perspective and perhaps also come to an amicable resolution.
So could it be that for this group of people, they are not just being argumentative for controversy's sake, but rather they have a bigger purpose of trying to vent or express their opinions just to get their points across? There is a deeper purpose behind their rants, and it takes a bigger person to be able to handle their remarks and try to see where they may be coming from.
Admittedly, this gracious stance of trying to find out the deeper meanings behind meandering conversations that may not seem to be heading anywhere might wear us down. Where then do we draw the line? We do so only when we see the validity of their controversial behaviors, otherwise, it might be better to just walk away from these people. There is really no need for us to be like them."

by Mr Teacher
Created on: September 02, 2011 ( Did I really post this? I must be starting to like you people)