Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

[4Joshua8]

I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!

The scriptures are full of “negative” revelation that puts down God’s rebellious covenant people. The positive and uplifting portion of the revelation is reserved only for the righteous—those who believe and obey.

I just don't see the active LDS that I'm aware of, who are largely God fearing, earnest, gospel-attending and loving people, mainly trying to do good, be faithful and raise their children/grandchildren in righteousness as being "rebellious covenant people".

I wouldn’t know on a case by case basis, but on the whole, the church has been led astray.

Are these people you speak of doing any of the following?
Sending their kids to public school when we know it is sending them like sheep to the slaughter and is neglecting the duty of the parents?
Married mothers in the workforce?
Women who do not submit to and obey their husbands?
Men who do not submit to and obey God’s word in the Bible?
Dressing immodestly?
Listening to music like Taylor Swift and Beyoncé (and many others)?
Absorbed in the television and movie culture?
Playing video games that glorify violence?
Neglecting the poor while they themselves are well off?
Wearing fine apparel and buying expensive cars?
Donating to the building of hundreds of lavishly expensive fine sanctuaries?
Using pornography and masturbating?
Absorbed in sports?
Voting for and donating to Democrats and some republicans?
Support abortion, whether at any time or in specific cases?
Reading smut?
Supporting gay marriage?
Supporting of science that contradicts the Bible, like evolution, big bang, death before sin, etc.
Rejecting the Bible?
This list could go on and on.

I think I probably just described most LDS, didn’t I?

These things are sin. Apostasy in a wicked world. Idolatry. Etc. And it’s made worse by the claims of LDS to be God’s chosen people, even covenant Israel.

I won’t play the judge and say the members are doomed. I don’t know exactly how God will judge in each case. But I know the LDS church is worldly and in apostasy, absorbed in Babylon’s culture.

Even the “more righteous part” are doing some of these things.

If you believe they’re not wicked, I won’t argue with you. Just know that those of us who see trouble in the church are seeing something you might want to open your eyes to someday.

I hope you’re right and that I’m wrong. And if so, may God give me the grace to repent.

[JohnnyL]

I like how he "almost goes there" :



Members might not neglect conspiracy theories if the church wasn't adamantly against researching and seeking the truth about them:

here they are basically telling us "avoid stuff that doesn't edify". that's actually not Mormon's point in telling us about CT's / CT's, as Mormon's point was that we should seek out and learn about the secrets so they wouldn't get above us. Well, Benson is dead now, and no one has filled his shoes, so we're on our own.

IMO, there's no such thing as "a baseless conspiracy theory", simply because every conspiracy theory "has a base" - something that's true that caused folks to question official narratives. I wish Q15 could get back to the point where they were suspicious of all "the government narratives", rather than the current wearing of UN pins to show their support for the child molesters.

You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.

What I hear you saying is that you agree that so-called prophets CAN lead the church astray by not following the commandments of the Lord. Is that right?

A prophet or the apostles could, in certain ways, but usually more like... hold them back from greater things. Think of ministering and quorum closeness and what greater good could come if we all did them (and these have been talked about in General Conference a few times)--that's the apostles telling us.

I'm sure it goes the same way sometimes in some things from Jesus to them.

Not even Joseph Smith claimed to be perfect, and they're all human but the ones Jesus wants. That means they have been indoctrinated of the world (most all of us had to a great extent), biased, strongly opinonated, and especially, mortal and subject to Satan, man, and bodily problems.

Look at the example of the apostles in Jerusalem. Because they did not ponder the words of Christ, much less pray, the Father told Jesus to say no more to them about the Lehites or the lost tribes because of, it would seem, their stiffneckness and unbelief.
3 Nephi 15:14 And not at any time hath the Father given me commandment that I should tell it unto your brethren at Jerusalem.

15 Neither at any time hath the Father given me commandment that I should tell unto them concerning the other tribes of the house of Israel, whom the Father hath led away out of the land.

16 This much did the Father command me, that I should tell unto them:

17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.

[BroJones]

I read the first article - very well done! Pushes back on the "official narrative" after quoting parts of it.

Meanwhile the Gadiantons are active.
E.g., Trump may be elected, but will the Gads promote civil unrest?

And will the VP (Harris) accept the Electoral college results, so he can be seated?

[InfoWarrior82]

You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.

What I hear you saying is that you agree that so-called prophets CAN lead the church astray by not following the commandments of the Lord. Is that right?

Ive always said that individual leaders can lead us astray. Not necessarily by "not following the commandments of the Lord". The leading astray has more to do w/being taken in by current beliefs that may be erroneous and dangerous, in my view. I.e., mRNA good, ignoring alternative treatments, national identity bad, UN agendas good, etc., etc.

Of course, the Ensign Peak fiasco/machinations, could be construed as the leaders implementing it, being dishonest, which is a fundamental commandment.

You may have noticed that recent conference talks have altogether avoided politically tainted topics. Is that a course correction? Possibly.

Well, not allowing secret combinations to get above us is a commandment of the Lord, right?

Someone posted this elsewhere, but applies to our current awful situation:


7)For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other-either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken. (1 Nephi 14)

12)And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold, if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, they shall be saved; for the Lord God will fulfil his covenants which he has made unto his children; and for this cause the prophet has written these things. (2 Nephi 6)

[TheDuke]

Lehi's main issue was the government,not the church. His nation was to be taken captive, his city sieged, his family and friends starved and eating dogs, and then carryd away captive. The fact that the Jews didn't listen to god had little to do with their individual welfare or internal (own government) issues.

Lehi's government and church were the same.

that is not true. sure they were intertwined but after Samuel made Saul king, they were fully separated. The king ran the government and the HP the religion. They didn't have a concept of a "church" in those days, as before Babylon they didn't have synogogues or written scriptures outside of temple, except some how Laban, go figure?

Their big issue was an enemy with swords not words or deeds. Read what Lehi wrote! and Jeremiah (they were contemporaries).

[larsenb]

ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:

The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?

I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.

Yes, that is surprising of Meridian, actually.

I guess my only question at this point would be:

Members have been given milk for so long, will they be able to get where they need to be ("wise as serpents") before it's too late?

I mean, just today, I saw a post from a friend from high school about how we can't vote for "that criminal, DJT!". She lives in the heart of Utah (Layton), in a cookie cutter neighborhood in a cookie cutter house. She thinks she's "with it", as far as knowing what's going on in the world. I suspect her political beliefs are representative of the greater wasatch front - I mean, seriously: Cox for governor? lol.

"blissfully unaware" is a phrase that comes to mind.

The majority voted for Trump in last election, last I heard. People wake up at different rates. People wean themselves from the MSM at different rates and degrees. Yes, many of our leaders have been caught up in 'Democratic' world-views. I could tell you some stories . . .

But unlike your friend from high school, many of these types along the Wasatch Front have waked up after seeing the Trump persecution and lawfare conducted against him, etc., even if COVID didn't have that effect.

If things get so bad, our economics go totally to heck in a hand basket and/or persecution raises its head more against Christians in general and freedom-loving people in particular, a title wave of people will be waking up. Of that I have no doubt. However, you're right, it's more of a church thing due to our leaders seeming lack of awareness of these dire issues. But I'm not sure the Lord hasn't allowed such a situation for His own purposes.

[larsenb]

The scriptures are full of “negative” revelation that puts down God’s rebellious covenant people. The positive and uplifting portion of the revelation is reserved only for the righteous—those who believe and obey.

I just don't see the active LDS that I'm aware of, who are largely God fearing, earnest, gospel-attending and loving people, mainly trying to do good, be faithful and raise their children/grandchildren in righteousness as being "rebellious covenant people".

I wouldn’t know on a case by case basis, but on the whole, the church has been led astray.

Are these people you speak of doing any of the following?
Sending their kids to public school when we know it is sending them like sheep to the slaughter and is neglecting the duty of the parents?
Married mothers in the workforce?
Women who do not submit to and obey their husbands?
Men who do not submit to and obey God’s word in the Bible?
Dressing immodestly?
Listening to music like Taylor Swift and Beyoncé (and many others)?
Absorbed in the television and movie culture?
Playing video games that glorify violence?
Neglecting the poor while they themselves are well off?
Wearing fine apparel and buying expensive cars?
Donating to the building of hundreds of lavishly expensive fine sanctuaries?
Using pornography and masturbating?
Absorbed in sports?
Voting for and donating to Democrats and some republicans?
Support abortion, whether at any time or in specific cases?
Reading smut?
Supporting gay marriage?
Supporting of science that contradicts the Bible, like evolution, big bang, death before sin, etc.
Rejecting the Bible?
This list could go on and on.

I think I probably just described most LDS, didn’t I?

These things are sin. Apostasy in a wicked world. Idolatry. Etc. And it’s made worse by the claims of LDS to be God’s chosen people, even covenant Israel.

I won’t play the judge and say the members are doomed. I don’t know exactly how God will judge in each case. But I know the LDS church is worldly and in apostasy, absorbed in Babylon’s culture.

Even the “more righteous part” are doing some of these things.

If you believe they’re not wicked, I won’t argue with you. Just know that those of us who see trouble in the church are seeing something you might want to open your eyes to someday.

I hope you’re right and that I’m wrong. And if so, may God give me the grace to repent.

My gosh, you’re really focused on some negative stuff.

What has impressed me recently in my meetings are excellent talks and testimonies. Two amazing young people going on missions, with incredible testimonies and stories of the reasons why they are going. A couple of these recently returning with even more impressive stories of their experiences. The administering brother to my family is engaged in a group dedicated to bringing people in the Philippines out of dire poverty. And much more I could mention.

Again, I just don’t buy into exaggerated generalities such as: “I know the LDS church is worldly and in apostasy, absorbed in Babylon’s culture.” Not my focus. Is there truth to some of these accusations existing among certain segments of the Church population? Undoubtedly. But they don’t get much traction in any church milieu I’m acquainted with.

I think it is more important to focus on and encourage the good that we see and experience. I’ll let the Lord do the judging. I don’t have enough knowledge to engage in such things, nor do I want to be subjected to the same accusatory scrutiny I might subject others to by focusing on what I think are all the bad things they are doing, a la: as you judge, so shall you be judged.

[larsenb]

What I hear you saying is that you agree that so-called prophets CAN lead the church astray by not following the commandments of the Lord. Is that right?

Ive always said that individual leaders can lead us astray. Not necessarily by "not following the commandments of the Lord". The leading astray has more to do w/being taken in by current beliefs that may be erroneous and dangerous, in my view. I.e., mRNA good, ignoring alternative treatments, national identity bad, UN agendas good, etc., etc.

Of course, the Ensign Peak fiasco/machinations, could be construed as the leaders implementing it, being dishonest, which is a fundamental commandment.

You may have noticed that recent conference talks have altogether avoided politically tainted topics. Is that a course correction? Possibly.

Well, not allowing secret combinations to get above us is a commandment of the Lord, right?

Someone posted this elsewhere, but applies to our current awful situation:


7)For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other-either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken. (1 Nephi 14)

12)And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold, if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, they shall be saved; for the Lord God will fulfil his covenants which he has made unto his children; and for this cause the prophet has written these things. (2 Nephi 6)

But remember, Moroni is addressing the gentiles, not the Church, per se. So, the commandment is directed to the gentiles in general, to include the Church, of course. Moroni was shown our day (that of the gentiles). The Church, in and of itself, could do diddly squat to prevent the Gadiantons from getting above us.

In my view, we are in the middle of the big gentile push to not let the secret combinations get above us. I’ve never seen such a world-wide awareness and awakening to such things come into being, occasioned largely by what was done to put the COVID control mechanisms in place and then the killer clot shots.

I’ve never seen the lines drawn so clearly between the wicked and those trying to align with righteousness. Quite amazing, actually . . . and foreboding, because it presages the big events of the last days . . . in my view.

[davedan]

Trump seems more awake to how DC works than ever before. Trump sounds like he is wanting to make some BIG changes and is not going to get COWed by corrupt advisors this time around. If Trump wins as POTUS, the Gad's may pull out all the stops, and try and pull the plug on the US before he enters office. I think the Gad's may be all out of legal options in terms of impeachment and endless accusations and indictments. I am not sure the Gad's can't afford to allow and AWAKE trump to be POTUS.

[JohnnyL]

Ha ha, nothing strange. Well, I guess, if we were to ignore/ not believe in propechy

Where does it say the church can't or won't go astray? You likely will reference D&C 13, however this is not what it says. Where else?

Once more, General Conference shows up to help.

In the Space of Not Many Years
Elder David A. Bednar

"Apostasy can occur at two basic levels—institutional and individual. At the institutional level, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will not be lost through apostasy or taken from the earth.

The Prophet Joseph Smith proclaimed: “The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing … ; the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.”

At the individual level, each of us must “beware of pride, lest [we] become as the Nephites of old.”

(May I suggest that if you or I believe we are sufficiently strong and stalwart to avoid the arrogance of pride, then perhaps we already are suffering from this deadly spiritual disease. Simply stated, if you or I do not believe we could be afflicted with and by pride, then we are vulnerable and in spiritual danger. In the space of not many days, weeks, months, or years, we might forfeit our spiritual birthright for far less than a mess of pottage.

If, however, you or I believe we could be afflicted with and by pride, then we consistently will do the small and simple things that will protect and help us become “as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon [us].” “Blessed are they who humble themselves without being compelled to be humble.”)"

There are plenty more prophets and apostles who have testified of this.

[InfoWarrior82]

Ive always said that individual leaders can lead us astray. Not necessarily by "not following the commandments of the Lord". The leading astray has more to do w/being taken in by current beliefs that may be erroneous and dangerous, in my view. I.e., mRNA good, ignoring alternative treatments, national identity bad, UN agendas good, etc., etc.

Of course, the Ensign Peak fiasco/machinations, could be construed as the leaders implementing it, being dishonest, which is a fundamental commandment.

You may have noticed that recent conference talks have altogether avoided politically tainted topics. Is that a course correction? Possibly.

Well, not allowing secret combinations to get above us is a commandment of the Lord, right?

Someone posted this elsewhere, but applies to our current awful situation:


7)For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other-either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken. (1 Nephi 14)

12)And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold, if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, they shall be saved; for the Lord God will fulfil his covenants which he has made unto his children; and for this cause the prophet has written these things. (2 Nephi 6)

But remember, Moroni is addressing the gentiles, not the Church, per se. So, the commandment is directed to the gentiles in general, to include the Church, of course. Moroni was shown our day (that of the gentiles). The Church, in and of itself, could do diddly squat to prevent the Gadiantons from getting above us.

In my view, we are in the middle of the big gentile push to not let the secret combinations get above us. I’ve never seen such a world-wide awareness and awakening to such things come into being, occasioned largely by what was done to put the COVID control mechanisms in place and then the killer clot shots.

I’ve never seen the lines drawn so clearly between the wicked and those trying to align with righteousness. Quite amazing, actually . . . and foreboding, because it presages the big events of the last days . . . in my view.

Except the leaders of our church are joined in building up the secret combinations.

[JohnnyL]

ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:

The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?

I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.

Perhaps he will say more OUTSIDE of Meridian Magazine?
Pls let us know if he speaks in ANY other venue, also when Part 4 comes out.

I often mention this topic in my ward in Missouri, and in my Seminary classes, so members here are made award of it. (I like to refer to D&C 89 and 38 also.)

At least Jeff used to be (hopefully still is) a great thinker. I've always been impressed by his articles, and I'm glad he took over from Dan. I hope his articles continue in the same vein.

[Telavian]

Where does it say the church can't or won't go astray? You likely will reference D&C 13, however this is not what it says. Where else?

Once more, General Conference shows up to help. ... There are plenty more prophets and apostles who have testified of this.

So your argument is that leaders of the LDS church can say and define whatever they want, and it becomes eternally binding?

[JohnnyL]

ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:

The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?

I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.

Yes, that is surprising of Meridian, actually.

I guess my only question at this point would be:

Members have been given milk for so long, will they be able to get where they need to be ("wise as serpents") before it's too late?

I mean, just today, I saw a post from a friend from high school about how we can't vote for "that criminal, DJT!". She lives in the heart of Utah (Layton), in a cookie cutter neighborhood in a cookie cutter house. She thinks she's "with it", as far as knowing what's going on in the world. I suspect her political beliefs are representative of the greater wasatch front - I mean, seriously: Cox for governor? lol.

"blissfully unaware" is a phrase that comes to mind.

Layton is more that way. A lot more non-members than typical, and some richer people.

The great majority of USA Church members are "blissfully unaware". Much of that has to do with being misled by media, especially the older ones who don't get on the internet and are able to find other possibilities.
"Waking up" is the biggest slap in the face most people will ever get--it can be painful, embarrassing, disorienting, confusing, etc., and is a fertile ground for feelings of betrayal, hurt, apostacy, etc.

[JohnnyL]

Where does it say the church can't or won't go astray? You likely will reference D&C 13, however this is not what it says. Where else?

Once more, General Conference shows up to help. ... There are plenty more prophets and apostles who have testified of this.

So your argument is that leaders of the LDS church can say and define whatever they want, and it becomes eternally binding?

Please review more recent General Conference talks about what constitutes doctrine and the law of witnesses.

Anything and everything can be rationalized away, some way or another:
Maybe 5 apostles said it, but one said something else.
JS wasn't a prophet.
JS wasn't a prophet, but the Book of Mormon is true.
JS was a prophet, then later he wasn't.
JS was a prophet, then he wasn't, he just vacillated back and forth.
JS might have been, but only sometimes (those quotes I like that support one's views).
JSA was, but BY and his successors weren't.
I'll believe an apostate over JS.
It doesn't mean that.
It's not clear.
I don't believe they ever said that.
Maybe he said that, but he didn't mean it that way.
Maybe he said that, but I don't believe it.
"Maybe he said that, but it's not true.
Maybe he said that, and it might or might not be true, but even if it is, it's not binding.
It might be in the scriptures, but I don't believe that section because JS didn't write it.
It's in the scriptures, though I have twisted them to mean what I want them to, which is the correct way.
Because of this one experience, all experiences point to the same thing.
Etc.

I have seen an ENDLESS list and circle of (illogical) excuses on this board for reasons one doesn't believe.

If one desires a testimony of things, one needs to do their own work or be open to answers to questions they ask instead of dismissing all uncomfortable answers by using one of the above excuses or any others. Work by others obviously doesn't work for those who have no desire to believe.

[Telavian]

I have seen an ENDLESS list and circle of (illogical) excuses on this board for reasons one doesn't believe.

I agree with you. There are an infinite amount of ways to rationalize things.

I just have a hard time trusting an organization in apostasy saying they are not in apostasy, and we should trust them instead.

[larsenb]

Well, not allowing secret combinations to get above us is a commandment of the Lord, right?

Someone posted this elsewhere, but applies to our current awful situation:


7)For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other-either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken. (1 Nephi 14)

12)And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold, if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, they shall be saved; for the Lord God will fulfil his covenants which he has made unto his children; and for this cause the prophet has written these things. (2 Nephi 6)

But remember, Moroni is addressing the gentiles, not the Church, per se. So, the commandment is directed to the gentiles in general, to include the Church, of course. Moroni was shown our day (that of the gentiles). The Church, in and of itself, could do diddly squat to prevent the Gadiantons from getting above us.

In my view, we are in the middle of the big gentile push to not let the secret combinations get above us. I’ve never seen such a world-wide awareness and awakening to such things come into being, occasioned largely by what was done to put the COVID control mechanisms in place and then the killer clot shots.

I’ve never seen the lines drawn so clearly between the wicked and those trying to align with righteousness. Quite amazing, actually . . . and foreboding, because it presages the big events of the last days . . . in my view.

Except the leaders of our church are joined in building up the secret combinations.

I would say they've been entrained by some of the agendas promoted by the secret combinations, not that they are blanket building up the combinations. In fact, i wonder how many of the Q15 would fully support these tendencies, if polled individually.

[larsenb]

I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.

Perhaps he will say more OUTSIDE of Meridian Magazine?
Pls let us know if he speaks in ANY other venue, also when Part 4 comes out.

I often mention this topic in my ward in Missouri, and in my Seminary classes, so members here are made award of it. (I like to refer to D&C 89 and 38 also.)

At least Jeff used to be (hopefully still is) a great thinker. I've always been impressed by his articles, and I'm glad he took over from Dan. I hope his articles continue in the same vein.

Dan was a founding 'editor', but I don't think he ever had a hand in actually editing prospective articles for the Interpreter Journal.

[larsenb]

I have seen an ENDLESS list and circle of (illogical) excuses on this board for reasons one doesn't believe.

I agree with you. There are an infinite amount of ways to rationalize things.

I just have a hard time trusting an organization in apostasy saying they are not in apostasy, and we should trust them instead.

But what do you mean by "an organization in apostasy"? Far too nebulous and too much of an accusatory generalization. Your experience was with your immediate leaders who were, from what you said, treating you like garbage and not fulfilling their duties in a righteous manner.

[Telavian]

But what do you mean by "an organization in apostasy"? Far too nebulous and too much of an accusatory generalization. Your experience was with your immediate leaders who were, from what you said, treating you like garbage and not fulfilling their duties in a righteous manner.

Based on your other comments, yes the "church" is a collection of people with each at individual levels of apostasy. Some 0% and some 100%.

I would say the church as a whole is in apostasy, because we have generationally been led astray by well-intentioned men who advocated for their opinions. This is manifest in false doctrines, false reliance on the handbook, and false reliance on the church itself. In my experience, God is spoken about however is secondary to the church itself.

Again, yes everyone is at a different point. However, in general if people are more in the apostasy camp, then I think it is safe to say the church is in apostasy.

[GeeR]

But what do you mean by "an organization in apostasy"? Far too nebulous and too much of an accusatory generalization. Your experience was with your immediate leaders who were, from what you said, treating you like garbage and not fulfilling their duties in a righteous manner.

Based on your other comments, yes the "church" is a collection of people with each at individual levels of apostasy. Some 0% and some 100%.

I would say the church as a whole is in apostasy, because we have generationally been led astray by well-intentioned men who advocated for their opinions. This is manifest in false doctrines, false reliance on the handbook, and false reliance on the church itself. In my experience, God is spoken about however is secondary to the church itself.

Again, yes everyone is at a different point. However, in general if people are more in the apostasy camp, then I think it is safe to say the church is in apostasy.

What do you mean the church is in a state of apostasy! Give me one example that proves the church is in an apostate condition! Oh, oh here's a quicky one that last 30 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/S-prEU2JKbs

[Telavian]

What do you mean the church is in a state of apostasy! Give me one example that proves the church is in an apostate condition! Oh, oh here's a quicky one that last 30 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/S-prEU2JKbs

A lot of people say that the church will be false if they do X. However when the leadership does X then almost everyone is too invested to do anything about it. So they stay and act like it is not a big deal.

[larsenb]

But what do you mean by "an organization in apostasy"? Far too nebulous and too much of an accusatory generalization. Your experience was with your immediate leaders who were, from what you said, treating you like garbage and not fulfilling their duties in a righteous manner.

Based on your other comments, yes the "church" is a collection of people with each at individual levels of apostasy. Some 0% and some 100%.

I would say the church as a whole is in apostasy, because we have generationally been led astray by well-intentioned men who advocated for their opinions. This is manifest in false doctrines, false reliance on the handbook, and false reliance on the church itself. In my experience, God is spoken about however is secondary to the church itself.

Again, yes everyone is at a different point. However, in general if people are more in the apostasy camp, then I think it is safe to say the church is in apostasy.

Again, far too much of a sweeping generality for me, where you say "the church as a whole is in apostasy, because we have generationally been led astray by well-intentioned men who have advocated their opinions".

Accepting a few erroneous opinions promulgated by leaders, is not going into apostasy, in my view. The members of the Church, by and large, follow Jesus Christ and accept His atonement, study and follow His teachings, and are focused on doing good and fulfilling their duties and obligations. They also, by and large, accept the revelations of Joseph Smith as presented in the D&C. This ain't apostasy, in my view.

And regardless of what your opinion of polygamy may currently be, we aren't practicing it any more. So for me, in order to understand what you mean by your assertion I quoted, you would have to be more specific. I do believe you are correct in your idea that we put our leaders and the 'Church' too much on an unassailable pedestal. This still isn't apostasy . . .. in my view.

For me, apostasy has to do with rejecting core beliefs . . . which I don't see happening at all.

[larsenb]

What do you mean the church is in a state of apostasy! Give me one example that proves the church is in an apostate condition! Oh, oh here's a quicky one that last 30 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/S-prEU2JKbs

A lot of people say that the church will be false if they do X. However when the leadership does X then almost everyone is too invested to do anything about it. So they stay and act like it is not a big deal.

The Church doesn't do X. It's the members to include leaders who do X. If the leaders or members do an X which is a rejection of or contradicts core teachings, then they are in apostasy . . . not the 'Church', per se. And the 'apostasy' has to do with the particular rejection or contradiction they engage in; it may not be across the board.

[Telavian]

The Church doesn't do X. It's the members to include leaders who do X. If the leaders or members do an X which is a rejection of or contradicts core teachings, then they are in apostasy . . . not the 'Church', per se. And the 'apostasy' has to do with the particular rejection or contradiction they engage in; it may not be across the board.

I will be honest with you. It is impossible to have a conversation with you about anything related to this subject.

If we say the 'church', then you correctly say the church is composed of people and can't act a certain way.
If we say the 'members', then you correctly say the members are not a reflection of the church and are strictly individuals.

I feel like if I want to have a conversation with you about this then I need to start adopting legalistic answers where everything is qualified to the nth degree. I frankly am not willing to do that.

You are correct that in many of my statements I have used general language. However, this was used because it generally is accepted vernacular to simplify the conversation.

For instance, it is raining where I live. However, technically it is not raining. There is a cloud above my house which is dropping moisture. However, this is also technically not correct. There is a cloud that is not above my house which is dropping moisture and the air patterns are moving the moisture to drop above my house. However, this is also technically not correct. There are many clouds in my area that are dropping moisture that is accumulating into rain drops that is being moved by air patterns to fall onto my house.

However, this is also technically not correct ...