Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
larsenb
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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 8:14 pm
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm
mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:34 pm I like how he "almost goes there" :


:)

Members might not neglect conspiracy theories if the church wasn't adamantly against researching and seeking the truth about them:



here they are basically telling us "avoid stuff that doesn't edify". that's actually not Mormon's point in telling us about CT's / CT's, as Mormon's point was that we should seek out and learn about the secrets so they wouldn't get above us. Well, Benson is dead now, and no one has filled his shoes, so we're on our own.

IMO, there's no such thing as "a baseless conspiracy theory", simply because every conspiracy theory "has a base" - something that's true that caused folks to question official narratives. I wish Q15 could get back to the point where they were suspicious of all "the government narratives", rather than the current wearing of UN pins to show their support for the child molesters.
You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.
ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:
Image
The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?
I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Hogmeister wrote: October 30th, 2024, 5:22 am
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm
mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:34 pm I like how he "almost goes there" :


:)

Members might not neglect conspiracy theories if the church wasn't adamantly against researching and seeking the truth about them:



here they are basically telling us "avoid stuff that doesn't edify". that's actually not Mormon's point in telling us about CT's / CT's, as Mormon's point was that we should seek out and learn about the secrets so they wouldn't get above us. Well, Benson is dead now, and no one has filled his shoes, so we're on our own.

IMO, there's no such thing as "a baseless conspiracy theory", simply because every conspiracy theory "has a base" - something that's true that caused folks to question official narratives. I wish Q15 could get back to the point where they were suspicious of all "the government narratives", rather than the current wearing of UN pins to show their support for the child molesters.
You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.
Jesus sure painted a target on his back. Should've taken the advice of Jeff so he could better perform his purpose.
Jesus' main mission was the last sacrifice. The Church could probably be described as having a different mission.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 9:15 am
JohnnyL wrote: October 30th, 2024, 9:12 am
Telavian wrote: October 29th, 2024, 3:40 pm

I find it so fascinating that the Book of Mormon is a book about spiritual apostasy, yet it was given to a people who think they can't apostatize.
??

I am certain that I can.
I am also certain that the Church won't.
This is exactly what I meant. It doesn't even logically make sense.
Everyone in the church could be in apostasy, but somehow the church is still not in apostasy. Very strange.

The true church could be entirely composed of apostate people with apostate beliefs and apostate actions, yet still true!
The people actually constitute the real church. If most of them actually do apostasize, the mission they are supposed to fulfill will fall by the wayside, as well.

The phrase 'the Church is true' is very nebulous and imprecise. In my view, better couched in terms and questions like: Did Christ establish the Church? Was priesthood authority given to its members? Is the church a restoration to some degree of the primitive church? and similar questions, and when posed, the 'truth' of the church comes into better focus.

Ancillary questions might be: Has Christ disavowed the current church? Is the priesthood still held and is valid for many of the Church's members,; is the Church still fulfilling much of its original purpose?

And if you're answer to these questions is 'yes', except for the 'disavow' question, it is a sign of your faith and experience. For anyone else, they are partaking of a different faith and conviction, and would probably fall back on passages from Isaiah to convince themselves that Christ has disavowed and disowned the entire current Church . . . despite the earnest faith and performance of most of its current active members.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

JohnnyL wrote: October 30th, 2024, 9:38 am
Hogmeister wrote: October 30th, 2024, 5:22 am
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm

You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.
Jesus sure painted a target on his back. Should've taken the advice of Jeff so he could better perform his purpose.
Yes, and three years later, he was dead. ;) (Although, of course, that was his purpose.)
However, being dead in three years is not the purpose of the Church.
You got there before I did. :shock:

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 10:54 am
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 10:49 am If you are exercising faith in Jesus Christ and trying to live the Gospel as you discern it from the scriptures, you really aren't in a state of apostasy. Who exactly are these 'people' you are talking about? If you are tagging active LDS, do you have any inkling of what a black-and-white judgement this is? Making these kinds of accusations, for me, is dangerous territory. Why? Because as you judge, you will be judged. I try to stay away from such judgements, myself . . . especially those that partake of being sweeping, black-and-white generalities.
I would really reread what you just wrote and think about it for a bit. What you said is exactly what Laman and Lemuel said about their people. However, it seems God disagreed.

"And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him."
1 Nephi 17:22
Lehi was led away by commandment of the Lord and the judgements against the 'Jews' of the day came from Him, as well, both through Lehi and Jeremiah, and apparently others. Have you been led away from the Church in the same way, and has the Lord told you that the entire Church is in apostasy? Interesting claims, if that is the case.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 30th, 2024, 10:57 am
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm
mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:34 pm I like how he "almost goes there" :


:)

Members might not neglect conspiracy theories if the church wasn't adamantly against researching and seeking the truth about them:



here they are basically telling us "avoid stuff that doesn't edify". that's actually not Mormon's point in telling us about CT's / CT's, as Mormon's point was that we should seek out and learn about the secrets so they wouldn't get above us. Well, Benson is dead now, and no one has filled his shoes, so we're on our own.

IMO, there's no such thing as "a baseless conspiracy theory", simply because every conspiracy theory "has a base" - something that's true that caused folks to question official narratives. I wish Q15 could get back to the point where they were suspicious of all "the government narratives", rather than the current wearing of UN pins to show their support for the child molesters.
You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.
What I hear you saying is that you agree that so-called prophets CAN lead the church astray by not following the commandments of the Lord. Is that right?
Ive always said that individual leaders can lead us astray. Not necessarily by "not following the commandments of the Lord". The leading astray has more to do w/being taken in by current beliefs that may be erroneous and dangerous, in my view. I.e., mRNA good, ignoring alternative treatments, national identity bad, UN agendas good, etc., etc.

Of course, the Ensign Peak fiasco/machinations, could be construed as the leaders implementing it, being dishonest, which is a fundamental commandment.

You may have noticed that recent conference talks have altogether avoided politically tainted topics. Is that a course correction? Possibly.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 9:42 am
JohnnyL wrote: October 30th, 2024, 9:36 am Ha ha, nothing strange. Well, I guess, if we were to ignore/ not believe in propechy
Where does it say the church can't or won't go astray? You likely will reference D&C 13, however this is not what it says. Where else?
Once again, the problem with what exactly is the Church? I can see leaders implementing or trying to implement a direction that leads the Church astray, But the 'Church' doing so? As an assertion, doesn't make much sense, in my view.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

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larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:38 am Lehi was led away by commandment of the Lord and the judgements against the 'Jews' of the day came from Him, as well, both through Lehi and Jeremiah, and apparently others. Have you been led away from the Church in the same way, and has the Lord told you that the entire Church is in apostasy? Interesting claims, if that is the case.
God told me that I should bear my testimony upon return to the church after my Bishop literally told me I was not welcome because of my Covid stance. When I did it started a massive chain of actions which let me to where I am today. I actually had notes on my phone that wouldn't load as the area of the chapel had poor reception. I went outside the church and prayed that if God helped the notes to load then I would bear my testimony. I was incredibly nervous because I knew the ultimate results. I fully trust that God helped me in that process.

God also led me to where I physical am as well. It's a bit of a story, but a random person I never met came up to me in a parking lot with a message from God. It was pertinent, timely and very helpful. Without a doubt, God is watching us and very gracious.

Sorry, the audio is not very good. However you are welcome to listen to my entire story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7kpFgicmLU

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 10:54 am
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 10:49 am If you are exercising faith in Jesus Christ and trying to live the Gospel as you discern it from the scriptures, you really aren't in a state of apostasy. Who exactly are these 'people' you are talking about? If you are tagging active LDS, do you have any inkling of what a black-and-white judgement this is? Making these kinds of accusations, for me, is dangerous territory. Why? Because as you judge, you will be judged. I try to stay away from such judgements, myself . . . especially those that partake of being sweeping, black-and-white generalities.
I would really reread what you just wrote and think about it for a bit. What you said is exactly what Laman and Lemuel said about their people. However, it seems God disagreed.

"And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him."
1 Nephi 17:22
Another point that I should have brought up is that the people in the land of Jerusalem that Laman and Lemuel were referring to were not followers of the Messiah, of Jesus Christ. So no, I was not saying "exactly what Laman and Lemuel said about their people".

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

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larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 3:33 pm
Telavian wrote: October 29th, 2024, 3:14 pm
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 2:49 pm And your last statement. I don't see active LDS ignoring the restoration at all. You obviously live in a different world than I do.
You and I see the restoration vastly differently. Active LDS are the ones in apostasy and are ignoring the Book of Mormon and consequently God. Yes, you and I live in a different world.
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 2:49 pm My personal view is it that you might benefit by rethinking some of your closely held beliefs and views. Though, I think we both know, that isn't going to happen any time soon.
I am very stubborn I will admit. However, in the last 5 years or so I have drastically changed. I now know that I know almost nothing and have let God mold me as he sees fit. I am also no longer beholden to dogmas. This has been so spiritually liberating that I can't begin to explain it.
Yup. You've got that right. I hear good lessons and talks drawing on the Book of Mormon ALL THE TIME, in various church venues. So, I'm clueless as to how you could come to think "active LDS are the ones in apostasy and are ignoring the Book of Mormon and consequently God." An incredible accusation, in my view. Very black-and-white, which is epidemic with so many people now-a-days.

And I can well imagine that freeing yourself from the strictures of "dogma" would be liberating for you. I just hope those dogmas you are referring to don't involve standard morality and basic ideas of right and wrong.
his is NOT LDS!

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

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Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 12:07 pm
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:38 am Lehi was led away by commandment of the Lord and the judgements against the 'Jews' of the day came from Him, as well, both through Lehi and Jeremiah, and apparently others. Have you been led away from the Church in the same way, and has the Lord told you that the entire Church is in apostasy? Interesting claims, if that is the case.
God told me that I should bear my testimony upon return to the church after my Bishop literally told me I was not welcome because of my Covid stance. When I did it started a massive chain of actions which let me to where I am today. I actually had notes on my phone that wouldn't load as the area of the chapel had poor reception. I went outside the church and prayed that if God helped the notes to load then I would bear my testimony. I was incredibly nervous because I knew the ultimate results. I fully trust that God helped me in that process.

God also led me to where I physical am as well. It's a bit of a story, but a random person I never met came up to me in a parking lot with a message from God. It was pertinent, timely and very helpful. Without a doubt, God is watching us and very gracious.

Sorry, the audio is not very good. However you are welcome to listen to my entire story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7kpFgicmLU
I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

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TheDuke wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:07 pm I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!
I kind of agree with you. However, I do think it is more nuanced than you believe.

Lehi was led away and essentially told his church had gone astray. I believe that is what God did to me.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

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TheDuke wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:07 pm
Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 12:07 pm
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:38 am Lehi was led away by commandment of the Lord and the judgements against the 'Jews' of the day came from Him, as well, both through Lehi and Jeremiah, and apparently others. Have you been led away from the Church in the same way, and has the Lord told you that the entire Church is in apostasy? Interesting claims, if that is the case.
God told me that I should bear my testimony upon return to the church after my Bishop literally told me I was not welcome because of my Covid stance. When I did it started a massive chain of actions which let me to where I am today. I actually had notes on my phone that wouldn't load as the area of the chapel had poor reception. I went outside the church and prayed that if God helped the notes to load then I would bear my testimony. I was incredibly nervous because I knew the ultimate results. I fully trust that God helped me in that process.

God also led me to where I physical am as well. It's a bit of a story, but a random person I never met came up to me in a parking lot with a message from God. It was pertinent, timely and very helpful. Without a doubt, God is watching us and very gracious.

Sorry, the audio is not very good. However you are welcome to listen to my entire story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7kpFgicmLU
I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!
The scriptures are full of “negative” revelation that puts down God’s rebellious covenant people. The positive and uplifting portion of the revelation is reserved only for the righteous—those who believe and obey.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 12:07 pm
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:38 am Lehi was led away by commandment of the Lord and the judgements against the 'Jews' of the day came from Him, as well, both through Lehi and Jeremiah, and apparently others. Have you been led away from the Church in the same way, and has the Lord told you that the entire Church is in apostasy? Interesting claims, if that is the case.
God told me that I should bear my testimony upon return to the church after my Bishop literally told me I was not welcome because of my Covid stance. When I did it started a massive chain of actions which let me to where I am today. I actually had notes on my phone that wouldn't load as the area of the chapel had poor reception. I went outside the church and prayed that if God helped the notes to load then I would bear my testimony. I was incredibly nervous because I knew the ultimate results. I fully trust that God helped me in that process.

God also led me to where I physical am as well. It's a bit of a story, but a random person I never met came up to me in a parking lot with a message from God. It was pertinent, timely and very helpful. Without a doubt, God is watching us and very gracious.

Sorry, the audio is not very good. However you are welcome to listen to my entire story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7kpFgicmLU
Very impressive testimony and a tragic outcome . . . from one perspective. I don't know all the details regarding the scriptures you were expounding or the details of your various interactions with your leaders and fellow ward members, but it truly sounds as if your leaders really dropped the ball in treating you in a decent and righteous manner. Very sad. My sense is that they are going to have a lot to answer for regarding their behavior.

It also sounds as if your community, for whatever reason, and your Ward/Stake environment, are really informed by letter-of-the-law types of people . . . . . perhaps even bordering on being 'woke'. We have one member of our Ward, very intelligent and musically gifted, who is still wearing a mask, with all of his kids. He is also very liberal.

My situation was different. I was studying the COVID issue from the git-go, and knew all about effective alternative treatments. When church was shut down, we stopped attending, and never went back as long as they were masking. Your situation would be much harder because of your 7 kids. Our children had long flown the home hearth, so it was easy for us to lay low. But I was never aware of anything like contact tracing being enforced. I had also told what I knew about alternative treatments and the dangers of the clot shot to my EQ President, my Bishop, and the First Counselor to the Stake President, who was a friend of ours. My wife even took this information to the house of one of our top 3 leaders. Though, she was reluctantly reprimanded by our Bishop for this (she had apparently been reported), no one ever ever accused me or her of not following our 'prophet' by essentially saying he was wrong about the mRNA shots, etc.

My stance in a temple interview (coming up) when asked if I accept the President as a prophet, sear and revelator, would be yes, I do. But my unspoken caveat to that assertion (unless asked, or pressed to elaborate), would be that I do as long as they act as such, and that I pray that the Lord gives them those opportunities.

So, from how you've presented your story, I think you are justified in acting and feeling as you do, and I hope the Lord guides and directs you on your subsequent thoughts, plans and actions. If you feel a calm reassurance about aspects of your decisions and actions with regard to what you are dealing with, and that this comes from the Lord, that would certainly be good support for you.

The danger I see someone in your position may be subject to, is accepting all the negative judgements against the church and its leaders you may be tempted to buy into. I think Reluctant Watchmen has really succumbed to this danger in certain particulars.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:28 pm
TheDuke wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:07 pm I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!
I kind of agree with you. However, I do think it is more nuanced than you believe.

Lehi was led away and essentially told his church had gone astray. I believe that is what God did to me.
It wasn't a Church, per se. It was a people. Didn't Jeremiah have a lot to say about why God thought they had gone astray?

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

4Joshua8 wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:34 pm
TheDuke wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:07 pm
Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 12:07 pm

God told me that I should bear my testimony upon return to the church after my Bishop literally told me I was not welcome because of my Covid stance. When I did it started a massive chain of actions which let me to where I am today. I actually had notes on my phone that wouldn't load as the area of the chapel had poor reception. I went outside the church and prayed that if God helped the notes to load then I would bear my testimony. I was incredibly nervous because I knew the ultimate results. I fully trust that God helped me in that process.

God also led me to where I physical am as well. It's a bit of a story, but a random person I never met came up to me in a parking lot with a message from God. It was pertinent, timely and very helpful. Without a doubt, God is watching us and very gracious.

Sorry, the audio is not very good. However you are welcome to listen to my entire story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7kpFgicmLU
I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!
The scriptures are full of “negative” revelation that puts down God’s rebellious covenant people. The positive and uplifting portion of the revelation is reserved only for the righteous—those who believe and obey.
I just don't see the active LDS that I'm aware of, who are largely God fearing, earnest, gospel-attending and loving people, mainly trying to do good, be faithful and raise their children/grandchildren in righteousness as being "rebellious covenant people".

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Telavian
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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

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larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:03 pm The danger I see someone in your position may be subject to, is accepting all the negative judgements against the church and its leaders you may be tempted to buy into. I think Reluctant Watchmen has really succumbed to this danger in certain particulars.
Thank you. I do feel like I am in a very unique perspective. I see a lot wrong with the church, however I also see a lot right about it. I personally try to see things logically instead of emotionally and so I do disagree with a lot of people who have left the church.

I won't watch most of the anti-stuff, because I personally want the data and not the feelings that seem to dominate. I also think the LDS people are typically really good people who are trying their hardest to follow God, however they have been led astray simply based on the traditions of their fathers. The leaders are in the same boat and are just a reflection of the people.

God will correct the church, however I doubt it will be very pleasant.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:10 pm
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:03 pm The danger I see someone in your position may be subject to, is accepting all the negative judgements against the church and its leaders you may be tempted to buy into. I think Reluctant Watchmen has really succumbed to this danger in certain particulars.
Thank you. I do feel like I am in a very unique perspective. I see a lot wrong with the church, however I also see a lot right about it. I personally try to see things logically instead of emotionally and so I do disagree with a lot of people who have left the church.

I won't watch most of the anti-stuff, because I personally want the data and not the feelings that seem to dominate. I also think the LDS people are typically really good people who are trying their hardest to follow God, however they have been led astray simply based on the traditions of their fathers. The leaders are in the same boat and are just a reflection of the people.

God will correct the church, however I doubt it will be very pleasant.
I think you are right. I'm mainly worried about how God will deal with me.

I personally think we may be in the midst of a time we were warned about via Orson Whitney and Heber C. Kimball:

"“I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy to the people of God. Then, brethren, look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall; for I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming, and who will be able to stand?” (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1945, p. 446.)

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by BroJones »

larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:04 am
mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 8:14 pm
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm

You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.
ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:
Image
The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?
I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.
Perhaps he will say more OUTSIDE of Meridian Magazine?
Pls let us know if he speaks in ANY other venue, also when Part 4 comes out.

I often mention this topic in my ward in Missouri, and in my Seminary classes, so members here are made award of it. (I like to refer to D&C 89 and 38 also.)
Last edited by BroJones on October 30th, 2024, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by Telavian »

larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:17 pm "“I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy to the people of God. Then, brethren, look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall; for I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming, and who will be able to stand?” (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1945, p. 446.)
I do think God will test his people. However I just don't think the correct answer is to follow the leaders without question. This just seems too easy to me and against several examples in the scriptures.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

BroJones wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:21 pm
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:04 am
mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 8:14 pm

ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:
Image
The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?
I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.
Perhaps he will say more OUTSIDE of Meridian Magazine?
Pls let us know if he speaks ANY other venue, also when Part 4 comes out.

I often mention this topic in my ward in Missouri, and in my Seminary classes, so members here are made award of it. (I like to refer to D&C 89 and 38 also.)
Steve, I've PM'd you on this subject.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by larsenb »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:31 pm
larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:17 pm "“I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy to the people of God. Then, brethren, look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall; for I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming, and who will be able to stand?” (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1945, p. 446.)
I do think God will test his people. However I just don't think the correct answer is to follow the leaders without question. This just seems too easy to me and against several examples in the scriptures.
Why should "the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy" just pertain to the common membership?? Kimball didn't exclude our leaders from this possibility.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by TheDuke »

Telavian wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:28 pm
TheDuke wrote: October 30th, 2024, 1:07 pm I would never challenge your personal revelations. But I am SURE god didn't tell you anything about the rest of the church. He doesn't work that way, perhaps personal interpretation of general revelation. You will NEVER get negative stuff about anyone or anything from god unless it is pure 100% evil to stay away from. Always positive, even if promise of support in a hellish time. When I see people post stuff like you have above about how everyone else is led astray and god has walked away, while others testify otherwise. I am only able to say that your god isn't my god.

Many of us learned many things over the years and enhanced in the days of Covid. Not just covid but the larger PTB attempt to take over our lives. but losing all faith is not god's way. Sorry, sounds like a contrary spirit as the true spirit is always, always, always uplifting and never ever putting down a mass of believers as a whole!
I kind of agree with you. However, I do think it is more nuanced than you believe.

Lehi was led away and essentially told his church had gone astray. I believe that is what God did to me.
Lehi's main issue was the government,not the church. His nation was to be taken captive, his city sieged, his family and friends starved and eating dogs, and then carryd away captive. The fact that the Jews didn't listen to god had little to do with their individual welfare or internal (own government) issues.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by mudflap »

larsenb wrote: October 30th, 2024, 11:04 am
mudflap wrote: October 29th, 2024, 8:14 pm
larsenb wrote: October 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm

You should be happy that in these articles you have push-back from a common, but very well established member, to the opinion you've just posted. For me, seeing this type of information promulgated in a fairly prominent LDS-related publication, illustrates to me that you can't realistically put the body of the Church into a black and white box.

Leaders come and go. They may represent a singular viewpoint held by a segment of the Church, but that just ain't all there is regarding the variety of opinion and outlooks held by many Church members.

Jeff has said in one of the articles, indicating what he believes, something like: the Church would make itself a target in a way detrimental to its main purpose, if it waxed prolific in going after the political machinations of the powers that be.

I would be more interested in your opinion of the articles once your actually read them . . . being careful to weigh the good as well as what you might think where they fail.
ok, I read the first one - I'll peruse the others tomorrow.

My initial thoughts are -
- why the pre-school-type intro? Shouldn't Mormons be *the most* informed when it comes to "secret combinations"? And if we're not, why aren't we?

But I agree with almost everything he says, even if it does appear to be geared toward "the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints".

I appreciate your thoughtful thread (we need more of this, so kudos to you!) - Just wanted to say:

1. If anyone needs Jeff Lindsay to inform you about secret combinations, I have to assume you've strictly limited your scripture study in the past 10+ years to the "Come Follow Me" manual, along with their "how does it make you feel.....?" questions. And nothing else. Maybe Meridian magazine is the wasatch front's gateway to deeper subjects? Anyway, at least it's being said. finally. after a decade of near silence.*
2. Weird (or...?) that Bednar waits till Nelson is 100+ to talk about CT's / SC's in conference? Here's the frequency of "secret combinations" mentioned in conference lately:
Image
The one reference in 2010's is Nelson - and he mentions it at the end of his talk, but provides no commentary on it - just states that the Book of mormon informs us about SC's.

In my opinion, a major reason (in the top 5) Mormon wrote the BOM was as a warning to the future inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why else include the reason for the downfalls of both previous civilizations here?

* I just don't know what they do with it now that Bednar talked about it - I mean, if you're all in on the jab, the UN, voting for Soros picks for President, Ukraine good/Russia bad - then who are the bad guys?
I was frankly surprised Meridian saw fit to publish his articles. I don't see them as the gateway to deeper subjects. But I do think it is significant that the former chief editor of the Interpreter Journal didn't target this journal for his articles.

And he undoubtedly used a " pre-school-type intro" precisely because of the neglect of this topic in the last few decades. I think that our current and awful political scene, even the COVID fiasco, is waking many people up, and probably a significant portion of active LDS have wondered about the neglect of this topic, and are fully aware of its importance in our day.

For me, it will be interesting to see how far he might go in using the Secret Combination template he outlined to describe current events in his next installment, Part 4. Whatever he says, my guess is he will probably hold back in outlining everything he may discern about our current, high-level secret combinations.
Yes, that is surprising of Meridian, actually.

I guess my only question at this point would be:

Members have been given milk for so long, will they be able to get where they need to be ("wise as serpents") before it's too late?

I mean, just today, I saw a post from a friend from high school about how we can't vote for "that criminal, DJT!". She lives in the heart of Utah (Layton), in a cookie cutter neighborhood in a cookie cutter house. She thinks she's "with it", as far as knowing what's going on in the world. I suspect her political beliefs are representative of the greater wasatch front - I mean, seriously: Cox for governor? lol.

"blissfully unaware" is a phrase that comes to mind.

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Re: Jeff Lindsay's Articles on Secret Combinations -Meridian Magazine

Post by Telavian »

TheDuke wrote: October 30th, 2024, 2:49 pm Lehi's main issue was the government,not the church. His nation was to be taken captive, his city sieged, his family and friends starved and eating dogs, and then carryd away captive. The fact that the Jews didn't listen to god had little to do with their individual welfare or internal (own government) issues.
Lehi's government and church were the same.

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