LDS Freedom Forum

First, I believe there is a very strong vibe in LDS culture to be a high achiever. This is most obvious in the Mountain West / Wasatch Front where we see the collective outcome of high quality communities and high standards of living. But where ever the church is, you will have multiple LDS families who demonstrate high achievement.

Second, I believe a culture of high achievement is good. The pursuit for excellence is a far better course for humanity than alternative pursuits. Societies benefit greatly from people developing and perfecting their talents and putting those talents on display. And while it is true that a high achievement culture invites pride and competition, those negatives prevail in all cultures. You have never known spitefulness until you spend time in a spiritually impoverished area and realize how much another person's success and good fortune is cause for jealousy and anger.

What I am wondering about is what factors created the LDS high achievement culture? To what degree do we credit church teachings? To what degree do we credit church leadership? To what degree do we credit the people who joined the church and brought ideas into the church? And perhaps most importantly, does the church today encourage personal excellence as a doctrine? Or is it the culture of people in the church who promote achievement?

I believe that high achievement used to be an important church teaching - the glory of God is intelligence was a big idea in my youth. In recent years, as wokeness has corrupted all of western culture, the church leadership has adjusted its message in order to appear more inclusive. But the culture of high achievement will continue to be embraced and taught by church member who understand the benefits of that culture - teaching one's children to read and write and think and work and to set high goals is the greatest form of privilege parents can provide and parents SHOULD give their children that gift!

I think it has at least partly to do with the general "class" of people that are our leaders. We are taught to be like them and to look to them for guidance while they are almost always successful people personally.

In my previous ward my Bishop was an OB/GYN and my Stake President was a partner in a law firm. In my current ward my Stake President is a successful person in the movie industry. The Apostles are almost all successful PhDs or business owners. This rubs off on people.

Combined with the concept that we essentially have to work our way to heaven and I think you have a receipt for a high level of people as far as Babylon standards.

Telavian wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 8:58 am I think it has at least partly to do with the general "class" of people that are our leaders. We are taught to be like them and to look to them for guidance while they are almost always successful people personally.

In my previous ward my Bishop was an OB/GYN and my Stake President was a partner in a law firm. In my current ward my Stake President is a successful person in the movie industry. The Apostles are almost all successful PhDs or business owners. This rubs off on people.

Combined with the concept that we essentially have to work our way to heaven and I think you have a receipt for a high level of people as far as Babylon standards.

Role models are so incredibly important. I appreciate the complaint that "Mormons try too hard to be good" but it is to the credit of the culture that it invites members to be overachievers.

A Disciple wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:08 am Role models are so incredibly important. I appreciate the complaint that "Mormons try too hard to be good" but it is to the credit of the culture that it invites members to be overachievers.

True. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this.
I was just saying if everyone you look up to is a lawyer, then maybe you are likely to be a lawyer also.

Telavian wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:12 am

A Disciple wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:08 am Role models are so incredibly important. I appreciate the complaint that "Mormons try too hard to be good" but it is to the credit of the culture that it invites members to be overachievers.

True. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this.
I was just saying if everyone you look up to is a lawyer, then maybe you are likely to be a lawyer also.

Yea, where I grew up all the church leaders were scientists. I thought I wanted to be one too and aimed for that until I realized I could make a better income in computer programming. I do wonder if we will ever see in our lifetime an Apostle called who is not highly credentialed by worldly standards - a farmer or a public school teacher.

A Disciple wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:16 am Yea, where I grew up all the church leaders were scientists. I thought I wanted to be one too and aimed for that until I realized I could make a better income in computer programming. I do wonder if we will ever see in our lifetime an Apostle called who is not highly credentialed by worldly standards - a farmer or a public school teacher.

Very unlikely unless we have a great societal reset, then very likely.

I am a mostly C# backend developer. I like software development and think it trains the mind to think of things very methodical and analytical.

A Disciple wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:16 am

Telavian wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:12 am

A Disciple wrote: ↑September 6th, 2024, 9:08 am Role models are so incredibly important. I appreciate the complaint that "Mormons try too hard to be good" but it is to the credit of the culture that it invites members to be overachievers.

True. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this.
I was just saying if everyone you look up to is a lawyer, then maybe you are likely to be a lawyer also.

Yea, where I grew up all the church leaders were scientists. I thought I wanted to be one too and aimed for that until I realized I could make a better income in computer programming. I do wonder if we will ever see in our lifetime an Apostle called who is not highly credentialed by worldly standards - a farmer or a public school teacher.

A farmer was prophet from 1985 to 1994.
A school teacher was prophet from 1951-1970.