LDS Freedom Forum

I ran across these two articles this morning. One is by the largest publisher of conservative books in the United States. The other is by Patrick Buchanan. The article by Jeffrey (his last name) points out that the current Bush doctrine of spreading Democracy throughout the world is NOT new; President (Secret Combination) Wilson proposed it nearly a century ago as a way to bring permanent peace to the world. Boy, was HE wrong!

I was personally disappointed when Patrick Buchanan reluctantly endorsed George Bush for President in the last election. It appears from his article that he is having second thoughts -- regretful ones.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=12168

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=12113

I also want to ask a question. Has anyone written an article spelling out the various reasons -- from the scriptures and modern prophets -- that the War in Iraq is an "abomination", as Scott Bradley told us last week? If so, could you please point me to where I can find it? And if not, perhaps I or someone else could do it, beginning with the scriptures that Scott mentioned last week. Or perhaps a couple of us could work together to come up with an even better (two heads are better...) end product.

Steve

As reasons for considering the war against Iraq and Afghanistan to be abominations, I submit the following:

From the US Constitution: "Congress shall have the Power...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;...". This states clearly that it is the responsibility of Congress to declare war, not that or the privilege of the President. Congress acted illegally in relinquishing that responsibility to the President.

So why should we care what the Constitution says. Most Americans don't, but Latter Day Saints, especially American LDSs had better start caring. Here's why:

D&C 98:6: Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land.

D&C 101:77: According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh...80: And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose...

D&C 109:54: ...may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever.

D&C 134:1: We believe that governments are instituted of God for the benefit of man, and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them for the good and safety of society.

David O. McKay stated years ago “Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States.”

Ezra Taft Benson stated “I reverence the Constitution of the United States as a sacred document. To me its words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed His stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land. I testify that the God of heaven sent some of His choicest spirits to lay the foundation of this government, and He has sent other choice spirits—even you who read my words—to preserve it.” The Constitution, a Heavenly Banner, by Ezra Taft Benson

To my knowledge, no subsequent Prophet has yet advised that we are no longer bound by these admonitions. The relative discretion in little further public discussion on the issue is easily understood, although as recently as Oct. 2001 Conference, President Hinkley stated: “The Constitution under which we live, and which has not only blessed us but has become a model for other constitutions, is our God-inspired national safeguard ensuring freedom and liberty, justice and equality before the law.”

Latter Day Saints are obligated to insist that their elected leaders adhere strictly to their constitutional oaths of office, and should make no apologies for holding them to their obligations. However, I do not expect the Church leadership will directly criticize our elected leaders or the wars they get us into. To do so would bring upon the Church the wrath of the puppet masters, or modern day Gadiantons, who could cause the Church serious difficulties with it's tax status, and with its missionary and temple building programs throughout the world.

See this thread for my additional thoughts on war. Sorry they were so long in coming:

http://latterdayconservative.com/forum/ ... c.php?t=93

[quote]From the US Constitution: "Congress shall have the Power...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;...". This states clearly that it is the responsibility of Congress to declare war, not that or the privilege of the President. Congress acted illegally in relinquishing that responsibility to the President.[/quote]

Where is it stated in the Constitution that these powers cannot be temporarily relinquished? I never read that part. If Congress decides to give the power to declare war on a nation to the president then they can. Just the same way they can take away the power to torture (Mcain bill).

I believe war, civil war, is about to unfold in America followed by Chinese & Russian invasions. This is the kick off to build the new Jerusalem.

sschultz wrote: ↑April 25th, 2006, 11:58 am

From the US Constitution: "Congress shall have the Power...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;...". This states clearly that it is the responsibility of Congress to declare war, not that or the privilege of the President. Congress acted illegally in relinquishing that responsibility to the President.

Where is it stated in the Constitution that these powers cannot be temporarily relinquished? I never read that part. If Congress decides to give the power to declare war on a nation to the president then they can. Just the same way they can take away the power to torture (Mcain bill).

I am no constitution expert, but I believe that the constitution is enumerating certain powers granted, with restrictions expressly set forth and all other powers reserved to the states.

If the document grants or restricts powers and assigns those powers expressly without the caveat of sharing, tossing power around to whomever it chooses, then that power to do so is not granted, but instead strictly limits what can be done and by whom - so as to preserve a limit and balance of powers.

So by your reasoning, if the congress decides to let the judiciary make laws, or the executive decide what is law then they all can do whatever they want, just because it is not limited as such in the constitution? Yeah that is what we have now anyway.

The real power of government lies with the people and the people's responsibility to uphold the rules or limits by which all the branches of government are supposed to operate. The people cannot exercise their mandated role of speaking up if their speech is curtailed, their right of assembly is restricted, or their voice not allowed or their will not heeded.

According to the Lord we are not to add to or subtract from the Constitution as established; therefore, powers cannot be delegated out side of constitutional constraints, no more than we can alter scripture.


D&C 101: 80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.


D&C 98: 4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

And since the constitution has been altered, we surely have "cometh of evil."

OTEC, over OPEC & war, war, war in 2024.

sbenard wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2006, 3:55 am I ran across these two articles this morning. One is by the largest publisher of conservative books in the United States. The other is by Patrick Buchanan. The article by Jeffrey (his last name) points out that the current Bush doctrine of spreading Democracy throughout the world is NOT new; President (Secret Combination) Wilson proposed it nearly a century ago as a way to bring permanent peace to the world. Boy, was HE wrong!

I was personally disappointed when Patrick Buchanan reluctantly endorsed George Bush for President in the last election. It appears from his article that he is having second thoughts -- regretful ones.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=12168

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=12113

I also want to ask a question. Has anyone written an article spelling out the various reasons -- from the scriptures and modern prophets -- that the War in Iraq is an "abomination", as Scott Bradley told us last week? If so, could you please point me to where I can find it? And if not, perhaps I or someone else could do it, beginning with the scriptures that Scott mentioned last week. Or perhaps a couple of us could work together to come up with an even better (two heads are better...) end product.

Steve

I spent 12 years in the Army and now work as a civilian for the DOD. I also spent a total of 22 months in Iraq. The Iraq war was a complete abomination. Every dead Iraqi and Americans blood is on the hands of the politicians who supported this war. We were told so many lies to get us into this war. While I truly believe that there are righteous reasons for war, Iraq was not one of them.

Is war going to occur? Are big wars going to occur in the 21st Century? That is like asking if we will experience a pandemic like that of 1918. Yes, these things will occur.

By the way, remember, everything in your cell phone was designed with the purpose of killing people. Most of our medical breakthroughs were due to trying to find ways to keep soldiers healthy and fighting. And someday our development of autonomous robots that look like us and kill like us will be due to research by the military.