LDS Freedom Forum

Although I was born and raised in the church, I feel like I'm playing catch up due to the fact that I was born and raised in a latin American country where the church has only been since the 80's and for the most part is still in it's infancy. After watching the left behind movies and reading revelations in the bible, I do not know what the churche's position is on The Rapture? so I ask if anyone can enlighten me and give me some quotes and so forth.

If you are wanting to play catchup while sticking to mostly scripture, ensign, and some journal of discourses type things the below link is a great site. Its organized by topic and all references given.

http://www.ldslastdays.com/

The term and connotation of "Rapture" as it is used today is a new doctrine of the last two hundred years among protestants. The slippery slope in it IMO is that most "rapture" believers believe they will be caught up before anything very bad starts to happen. When bad things start to happen many will probably lose faith all together or believe they were to wicked to get raptured and thus are going to hell anyway so they may as well well do whatever they want. This is what i see as the "rapture trap".

In terms of LDS we believe

BIBLE, 1 THES 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

D&C, 88:96
96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.

I think its clear and agreed upon LDS doctrine that this happens after Christs appearance at the mount of olives (much of bad things happen before this time) some-time later at the time of the second coming. But before the burning of the earth and Christs millennial reign. The burning of the earth is why the saints need to be caught up to heaven since every corruptible thing on earth will be destroyed.

When we return the earth be in its millennial glory will be a very different place from what we know of it now. Many of those changes will take place while we are "caught up"

Read Matthew 24 or Joseph Smith Matthew. Here's the quote in general:

36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

First, the day that no man knoweth that the Lord is referring to is His Second Coming. We also know that the Doctrine and Covenants referred the the Second Coming as "a light that breaketh forth in the East." Most have interpreted this as the idea that the commencement of the tribulation that precedes the Second Coming would start suddenly, and then slowly the sun will lighten the whole land--in other words, it will start suddenly but take time to complete.

Evangelicals have interpreted this as the rapture, the Lord will take those that are saved and leave the rest for the tribulation. This is incorrect. If you cross-reference, you see that the Lord take those who are to burn and leaves the righteous to inherit the earth!

D&C 63:53 These things are the things that ye must look for; and, speaking after the manner of the Lord, they are now nigh at hand, and in a time to come, even in the day of the coming of the Son of Man.
54 And until that hour there will be foolish virgins among the wise; and at that hour cometh an entire separation of the righteous and the wicked; and in that day will I send mine angels to pluck out the wicked and cast them into unquenchable fire

Thessalonians describes the process in 4: 17 16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But this happens at the very END right before Christ comes to the Earth during his final ascent, not at the beginning of tribulation. In essence, there is no rapture for the righteous. They must suffer the tribulations and them when they are washed clean through tribulation at the very end, they will be caught up with the Lord.

Another passage from D&C 63:

the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, I, the Lord, am with them, and will come down in heaven from the presence of the Father and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire... he that liveth when the Lord shall come, and hath kept the faith, blessed is he; nevertheless, it is appointed to him to die at the age of a man [100 years - Is. 66:20]. Wherefore, children shall grow up until they become old; old men shall die; but they shall not sleep in the dust, but they shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye" (D&C 63:34,50-51).

The rapture is a dangerous concept because it teaches that no Christian now here will have to suffer. What happens when this doesn't come to pass and there is suffering? Many will lose the faith! It's a doctrine of Satan, I believe.

I too read the Left Behind series. It is entertaining and did help me understand somewhat how the signs and the plagues of Revelations come upon us, and a bit about the wicked kingdoms that will arise before the end, but it introduces false doctrine as well as completely neglect the fact that Zion and the New Jerusalem will be built on the American continent.

pjbrownie, That's interesting that we both see the rapture doctrine as something potentially dangerous. Ive never met anyone else who perceived or thought that.

pjbrownie and hedgehog. I feel the same way about the Rapture. It's sad because many Christians expect to be raptured before the real tribulations start and won't have to deal with them at all. This is just not the case! I know of some evangelicals who aren't doing any food storage or preparations because they don't think they'll need to. Their faith will be shaken to the very core when the Rapture doesn't happen. The righteous will be caught up with Christ just before the destruction of the wicked right at his Coming but this will be after the tribulation time.

I read the Left Behind books, too, but found them to be very simplistic and weren't really the way I see things. I liked the series by Richard and Jessica Draper "The Seventh Seal" books. The series by Christopher Stewart "The Brothers" volumes were so much better.

Thank you guys for the info, yeah it never made much sense watching those movies. I definitely agree that the rapture could be used as a trap. I really liked the seventh seal books very intense. I still have to finish the last one, I just can't read it right now I'm pregnant with pih so I tried to stay away from anything that might get my bp up.

I've posted elsewhere that the Rapture is a dangerous philosophy. It not only leaves Christians unprepared for the coming tribulations, I suspect many will abandon their God when they come to the conclusion that because the rapture was false, all the rest must be false. Many hearts will fail...

I wish we could take a poll to find out just how many of the rapture believing christians go to church or read their bibles on a regular basis. There version of the rapture fits all too well with their confess Jesus and be saved and it doesn't matter what else you do because you believe in Jesus doctrine.

As stated, the rapture, or rather, the quickening, will happen after the Saints have gone through many trials, persecutions and tribulations, and then the wicked will be cleansed from the earth.

D&C, 88:96
96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.

D&C 101:24-31

23 And prepare for the revelation which is to come, when the veil of the covering of my temple, in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh shall see me together.
24 And every corruptible thing, both of man, or of the beasts of the field, or of the fowls of the heavens, or of the fish of the sea, that dwells upon all the face of the earth, shall be consumed;
25 And also that of element shall melt with fervent heat; and all things shall become new, that my knowledge and glory may dwell upon all the earth.
26 And in that day the enmity of man, and the enmity of beasts, yea, the enmity of all flesh, shall cease from before my face.
27 And in that day whatsoever any man shall ask, it shall be given unto him.
28 And in that day Satan shall not have power to tempt any man.
29 And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death.
30 In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree;
31 And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious.

The Rapture? Isn't that a reference to the time that the righteous will be raised up into heaven just before Christ's second coming and just before the wicked are burned? From what I understand, someone could be right in the middle of writing a blog post or a forum post and suddenl--

And someone found Cowell's clothes all neatly folded on his bed....(this is a reference to those who are "raptured" in the Left Behind movies.) I never could understand that.

Is the separation of the righteous from the wicked the same event dealing with the separation of the Wheat and Tares? Or is the latter for church members only?

Is the separation of the righteous from the wicked the same event dealing with the separation of the Wheat and Tares? Or is the latter for church members only?

The wheat from the tares is referencing the Church and it will happen first before the separation of the rest of the world.

Wilford Woodruffs journal speaks about this subject and specifically tells how the cleansing of the church will happen and who the tares are.

NoGreaterLove wrote:

Is the separation of the righteous from the wicked the same event dealing with the separation of the Wheat and Tares? Or is the latter for church members only?

The wheat from the tares is referencing the Church and it will happen first before the separation of the rest of the world.

Wilford Woodruffs journal speaks about this subject and specifically tells how the cleansing of the church will happen and who the tares are.

Thanks

NoGreaterLove wrote:
Wilford Woodruffs journal speaks about this subject and specifically tells how the cleansing of the church will happen and who the tares are.

What does he say?

kathyn wrote:pjbrownie and hedgehog. I feel the same way about the Rapture. It's sad because many Christians expect to be raptured before the real tribulations start and won't have to deal with them at all. This is just not the case! I know of some evangelicals who aren't doing any food storage or preparations because they don't think they'll need to. Their faith will be shaken to the very core when the Rapture doesn't happen. The righteous will be caught up with Christ just before the destruction of the wicked right at his Coming but this will be after the tribulation time.

I read the Left Behind books, too, but found them to be very simplistic and weren't really the way I see things. I liked the series by Richard and Jessica Draper "The Seventh Seal" books. The series by Christopher Stewart "The Brothers" volumes were so much better.

Let me join in agreement with you. And the worst danger are those who either do nothing from stopping the world going in a bad direction, or in some cases actually promote actions that they feel will bring end times and thus the rapture to pass. It's like the Lord saying I will return after 1,000 prophets have been killed and people would start killing prophets to hurry it up???

Original_Intent wrote:And the worst danger are those who either do nothing from stopping the world going in a bad direction, or in some cases actually promote actions that they feel will bring end times and thus the rapture to pass

O.I. I like what you said here. Additionally, I want to add something that has helped me when I'm down on myself about my performances or the lack thereof in some cases. Being imperfect does have its challanges doesn't it? This directive, I think, is for anyone, of whom, can and may have little to extreme efforts in either striving to awaken people to our present awful situation or actively engaged in it polically or something closely related, and for any good in any situation performed with a kind and righteous seeking heart. It gives me comfort and I'm certain it will to those, of whom, will adhere to the commandment.

Here it is: 2 Nephi 32:9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.

Think about it . . . it would be hard to ask God to consecrate one's performance and ask that that performance be for one's soul . . . if the task was wrong or done with less than a righteous intent.

Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

It certainly would be hard to let one's light shine when one is really not striving to glorify God in word and deed.

This all boils back down to the Wheat and Tares.

lamanite_mormonGirl wrote:Although I was born and raised in the church, I feel like I'm playing catch up due to the fact that I was born and raised in a latin American country where the church has only been since the 80's and for the most part is still in it's infancy. After watching the left behind movies and reading revelations in the bible, I do not know what the churche's position is on The Rapture? so I ask if anyone can enlighten me and give me some quotes and so forth.

Yes, so just to clarify this for you...being caught up to meet the Lord at his coming is a scriptural event...

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thes 4:15-17)

"That when the trump shall sound for the dead, we shall be caught up in the cloud to meet thee, that we may ever be with the Lord" (D&C 109:75)

The so called 'Rapture', (that word appears nowhere in Scripture by the way) is an embellishment of this scriptural truth. Instead of the sanctified true believers meeting the Lord in the air at his coming, the idea of the Rapture is that all believers in Christ, anyone that has ever confessed that Jesus Christ is the saviour, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air Seven Years before the Lord's return. This last seven years is classed as the tribulation when the antichrist will reign over the wicked before the Lord's return.

So its a matter of who will be caught up and when that is in error. The actual being caught up is scriptural truth...