Abraham Gileadi canceled by Deseret Book

[Peeps2.0]

" juvenile fantasy" ? right. lol.

isn't that kinda ridiculous to say that, considering the great prophets in the Bible that lived it.
But I guess it was just a " juvenile fantasy" for them. lol

I guess I could understand if God always opposed it,
but we know that great men -Abraham - our father,
Isaac, Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon lived it.
Abraham - who the Lord said:
"In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed—"

I wonder where YOU might be without it ?
"the whole nation of Israel comes from the offspring of the four wives of Jacob."
(2 wives, 2 concubines)"

The scriptures though seem to strongly suggest it is not of God.

so that of course is completely wrong.
I guess you don't even believe in the Bible, or consider anything to be scripture,
but what came from Joseph Smith - like the D&C.
but even the D&C acknowledges it.

The Lord didn't command it.

Neither was the Lord against it.

The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy.

We first see it in Genesis 4:19. Later, Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon had multiple wives
or concubines.

What about all those then in the Bible that the Lord approved of.
so are you then going to throw out the Bible - as well. as the D&C ? SMH.

D&C132:
"justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants,
as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines"

Isaac only had one wife, Rebecca (also spelled "Rebekah"). So whoever the "Lord" was that was addressing Joseph Smith in D&C section 132, was not the same "LORD God" of the Bible-- which I am absolutely not throwing out, but instead, I will throw out section 132.

Genesis 4:19 was speaking of one of Cain's descendants, Lamech. The first murderer's descendant gave us the first example of polygamy.

Solomon's wives led him into idolatry.

Read 1 Kings 11:
1 " But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:
2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.
7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
9 And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the Lord God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,
10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the Lord commanded."

[A Disciple]

The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy.

As Peeps writes, the Bible presents a narrative of Polygamy that is far from a ringing endorsement. If you simply consider the question: Does polygamy yield good fruit? The Bible answer is a solid No.

King Solomon became a corrupted king as a consequence of polygamy. His corruption resulted in the fall and captivity of his country.

Jacob was tricked in marrying his intended wife's sister. The family of Jacob was a soap opera of deceit and murder. The grand accomplishment of the family was to be enslaved in Egypt.

Isaac was not a polygamist and is by all accounts a model of righteousness.

Abraham consented to his wife's plea to father a son with her maid, as she was barren. This decision created much conflict in the family and resulted in Abraham sending the maid and the son he fathered away. Per the Bible account, Abraham's polygamy was a result of his and Sarah's lack of faith that God would bless them with a son.

Yes, polygamy produced more offspring. But it also produced conflict and sorrow. Why would any people want that?

[Being There]

The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy.

As Peeps writes, the Bible presents a narrative of Polygamy that is far from a ringing endorsement. If you simply consider the question: Does polygamy yield good fruit? The Bible answer is a solid No.

King Solomon became a corrupted king as a consequence of polygamy. His corruption resulted in the fall and captivity of his country.

Jacob was tricked in marrying his intended wife's sister. The family of Jacob was a soap opera of deceit and murder. The grand accomplishment of the family was to be enslaved in Egypt.

Isaac was not a polygamist and is by all accounts a model of righteousness.

Abraham consented to his wife's plea to father a son with her maid, as she was barren. This decision created much conflict in the family and resulted in Abraham sending the maid and the son he fathered away. Per the Bible account, Abraham's polygamy was a result of his and Sarah's lack of faith that God would bless them with a son.

Yes, polygamy produced more offspring. But it also produced conflict and sorrow. Why would any people want that?

Does polygamy yield good fruit?

maybe you should be asking that question to Joseph Smith's children.
Or maybe even look in the mirror - and look for yourself,
because I wonder where YOU might be without it ?
"the whole nation of Israel comes from the offspring of the four wives of Jacob."
(2 wives, 2 concubines)"


I really don't care - AT ALL about polygamy - it doesn't matter to me.
I'm not for it - or against it.
What I do care about, is the truth,
And the truth is -is that God allowed it. PERIOD !

If it was a sin - or a bad thing to do, or wrong - He would have condemned it. AND HE DIDN'T !

END OF STORY........

[Hogmeister]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Definately worth if you put in the effort. Will open up the more difficult scriptures to your understanding. There are some things I disagree with AG on. I get more and more convinced that the Davidic or Latter day servant is not a single superhuman individual but God's endowed/chosen latter day people (many are called but few are chosen).

[Hogmeister]

The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy.

As Peeps writes, the Bible presents a narrative of Polygamy that is far from a ringing endorsement. If you simply consider the question: Does polygamy yield good fruit? The Bible answer is a solid No.

King Solomon became a corrupted king as a consequence of polygamy. His corruption resulted in the fall and captivity of his country.

Jacob was tricked in marrying his intended wife's sister. The family of Jacob was a soap opera of deceit and murder. The grand accomplishment of the family was to be enslaved in Egypt.

Isaac was not a polygamist and is by all accounts a model of righteousness.

Abraham consented to his wife's plea to father a son with her maid, as she was barren. This decision created much conflict in the family and resulted in Abraham sending the maid and the son he fathered away. Per the Bible account, Abraham's polygamy was a result of his and Sarah's lack of faith that God would bless them with a son.

Yes, polygamy produced more offspring. But it also produced conflict and sorrow. Why would any people want that?

All the evil in the world is due to parents having offspring. Polygamy offspring is not inherently worse than any other.

[A Disciple]

All the evil in the world is due to parents having offspring. Polygamy offspring is not inherently worse than any other.

I disagree. From public and private record, polygamous families produce more conflict and strife. And of course they would! There is a reason monogamy and fidelity in marriage is celebrated as the most preferred way to bring children into the world!

The biblical record does not lend support for polygamy. Sure, go ahead and rationalize that it was needful for Jacob to have a dozen sons and he needed to procreate with multiple women to do that. That is quite the rationalization as the children of Israel utterly failed to keep God's covenant! This is why the rationalization is so bizarre. No one can point to polygamy and argue that people who did it created a lasting heritage of faith and honor. No, what we end up with is lies, deception and human and institutional failure.

By the way, I am a direct descendant of polygamists. One side of the family did alright with it. The other side had the wives divorcing my great grandparent and calling the experience the worst thing possible.

[Being There]

The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy.

As Peeps writes, the Bible presents a narrative of Polygamy that is far from a ringing endorsement. If you simply consider the question: Does polygamy yield good fruit? The Bible answer is a solid No.

King Solomon became a corrupted king as a consequence of polygamy. His corruption resulted in the fall and captivity of his country.

Jacob was tricked in marrying his intended wife's sister. The family of Jacob was a soap opera of deceit and murder. The grand accomplishment of the family was to be enslaved in Egypt.

Isaac was not a polygamist and is by all accounts a model of righteousness.

Abraham consented to his wife's plea to father a son with her maid, as she was barren. This decision created much conflict in the family and resulted in Abraham sending the maid and the son he fathered away. Per the Bible account, Abraham's polygamy was a result of his and Sarah's lack of faith that God would bless them with a son.

Yes, polygamy produced more offspring. But it also produced conflict and sorrow. Why would any people want that?

Does polygamy yield good fruit?

maybe you should be asking that question to Joseph Smith's children.
Or maybe even look in the mirror - and look for yourself,
because I wonder where YOU might be without it ?
"the whole nation of Israel comes from the offspring of the four wives of Jacob."
(2 wives, 2 concubines)"


I really don't care - AT ALL about polygamy - it doesn't matter to me.
I'm not for it - or against it.
What I do care about, is the truth,
And the truth is -is that God allowed it. PERIOD !

If it was a sin - or a bad thing to do, or wrong - He would have condemned it. AND HE DIDN'T !

END OF STORY........

but I guess to be fair about this - how to look at this - these revealing truths in the Bible.....

I LOVE THE BOOK OF MORMON, and I believe in it and what it says,
and it tells a different story - about having 1 wife.

I don't have the scriptures right now - but you can look it up

[Being There]

" juvenile fantasy" ? right. lol.

isn't that kinda ridiculous to say that, considering the great prophets in the Bible that lived it.
But I guess it was just a " juvenile fantasy" for them. lol

I guess I could understand if God always opposed it,
but we know that great men -Abraham - our father,
Isaac, Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon lived it.
Abraham - who the Lord said:
"In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed—"

I wonder where YOU might be without it ?
"the whole nation of Israel comes from the offspring of the four wives of Jacob."
(2 wives, 2 concubines)"

The scriptures though seem to strongly suggest it is not of God.

so that of course is completely wrong.
I guess you don't even believe in the Bible, or consider anything to be scripture,
but what came from Joseph Smith - like the D&C.
but even the D&C acknowledges it.

The Lord didn't command it.

Neither was the Lord against it.

The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy.

We first see it in Genesis 4:19. Later, Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon had multiple wives
or concubines.

What about all those then in the Bible that the Lord approved of.
so are you then going to throw out the Bible - as well. as the D&C ? SMH.

D&C132:
"justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants,
as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines"

Isaac only had one wife, Rebecca (also spelled "Rebekah"). So whoever the "Lord" was that was addressing Joseph Smith in D&C section 132, was not the same "LORD God" of the Bible-- which I am absolutely not throwing out, but instead, I will throw out section 132.

Genesis 4:19 was speaking of one of Cain's descendants, Lamech. The first murderer's descendant gave us the first example of polygamy.

Solomon's wives led him into idolatry.

Read 1 Kings 11:
1 " But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:
2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.
7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
9 And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the Lord God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,
10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the Lord commanded."

FYI

I think you need to read this.

Isaac's Second Marriage
http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2013 ... riage.html

[Shawn Henry]

If it was a sin - or a bad thing to do, or wrong - He would have condemned it. AND HE DIDN'T !

He did Einstein! He did it in plain language, but you don't believe the BoM!

He told Jacob to go to the temple and get his words. Christ's words regarding polygamy are: "which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord"!!!

Calling something an abomination is a condemnation. How exactly do you not understand simple language? Does Barney need to come and break it down for you!

[Peeps2.0]

FYI

I think you need to read this.

Isaac's Second Marriage
http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2013 ... riage.html

I read it. But I don't believe it. Making claims that go against Biblical scripture. Isaac's one wife, Rebecca/Rebekah, had twins. Those twins were making war with each other in her womb. One womb. Two sons. Two nations. One Rebecca/Rebekah. I don't view Genesis as "Genesis through the lens of Anthropology," as this site did/does. I view Genesis through the lens of Genesis, and bypass the 'wisdom of men' when it comes to scripture. And Genesis says this:

Chapter 25:
20 "And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.
21 And Isaac intreated the Lord for his wife, because she was barren: and the Lord was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the Lord.
23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

The site you referenced was talking about Cain's lineage. Genesis chapter 4 is dedicated to Cain. It tells how he had a son named Enoch, and how Cain built a city, and called it Enoch. Lamech, Namaah, Tubal Cain, etc., are serpent's seed, brood of viper Christ was speaking of in John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

There are 2 Enochs, one from Cain, one from Seth (Seth's Enoch was the 7th generation after Adam. Cain's Enoch was the third generation).
There are 2 Lamechs. And so on, and so forth...


An evil twin system arose from the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Cain vs Abel. Cain slew Abel. Seth replaced Abel.

This evil twin-system converged in Rebecca/Rebekah.
Two nations, two manner of people, spread out from there to fulfill God's covenant to Abraham in part, to be a father of many nations. And this is the likely reason Abraham engaged in polygamy after Sarah died. Isaac would not have needed to. And he probably wouldn't have wanted to either, because polygamy had caused his mother so much grief (Hagar & Ishmael).

[Being There]

If it was a sin - or a bad thing to do, or wrong - He would have condemned it. AND HE DIDN'T !

He did Einstein! He did it in plain language, but you don't believe the BoM!

He told Jacob to go to the temple and get his words. Christ's words regarding polygamy are: "which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord"!!!

Calling something an abomination is a condemnation. How exactly do you not understand simple language? Does Barney need to come and break it down for you!

you should have read my comment below before yelling so loud -
I think I made that clear - with my comment about the Book of Mormon and only having 1 wife,
(but it really doesn't change anything very much anyway)

and btw thanks for calling me Einstein - Einstein was great.

However, anyway, we can not just throw out the Bible, and everything I have said,
and just accept the Book of Mormon only.

These were real people - like our father Abraham
Great prophets - these great men had more than 1 wife !

so I'm sorry for all you guys who are so against that,
but there is no way to get around those facts -
no matter how much you cry about it - and jump up and down;
or even try to twist the scriptures like many do,
but I'm not going to be pulled into just another 100th debate on this -
because really - I just don't care -
but I do care about the truth.

[RosyPosy]

Well to get the tread back on track. Thanks for everyone's input regarding the link I shared. I'm definitely participate in the event.

I find astounding that the church has essentially become part of the cancel culture.

[Being There]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Gileadi is always worth it.

Have you read this book ?
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS BOOK.


A well known LDS writer once wrote a foreword in a book and said -

"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures,
but Latter-day Saints do not read the scriptures."

Hugh Nibley

this was the book

The Last Days - Types and Shadows from the Bible and Book of Mormon
AVRAHAM GILEADI

[RosyPosy]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Gileadi is always worth it.

Have you read this book ?
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS BOOK.


A well known LDS writer once wrote a foreword in a book and said -

"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures,
but Latter-day Saints do not read the scriptures."

Hugh Nibley

this was the book

The Last Days - Types and Shadows from the Bible and Book of Mormon
AVRAHAM GILEADI

TBH I never heard of him till this thread. But it is an investment that I will make.

[Peeps2.0]

Well to get the tread back on track. Thanks for everyone's input regarding the link I shared. I'm definitely participate in the event.

I find astounding that the church has essentially become part of the cancel culture.

Lol, sorry, but it seems that most all discussions between TBMs/LDS, exMOs, whether RLDS/CoC, mainstream-Brighamites, or fundies, it will eventually digress, and degrade into a polygamy debate no matter the original subject!

[Being There]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Definately worth if you put in the effort. Will open up the more difficult scriptures to your understanding. There are some things I disagree with AG on. I get more and more convinced that the Davidic or Latter day servant is not a single superhuman individual but God's endowed/chosen latter day people (many are called but few are chosen).

there is only 1 end-time Davidic servant of the Lord

here- read these 2 comments I made and especially what these scriptures say and why.
viewtopic.php?p=1413913&hilit=there+is+ ... s#p1413913

[jonubg]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Gileadi is always worth it.

Have you read this book ?
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS BOOK.


A well known LDS writer once wrote a foreword in a book and said -

"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures,
but Latter-day Saints do not read the scriptures."

Hugh Nibley

this was the book

The Last Days - Types and Shadows from the Bible and Book of Mormon
AVRAHAM GILEADI

I have this book and I was amazed at Nibley’s comment and it is totally true.

[Robin Hood]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Definately worth if you put in the effort. Will open up the more difficult scriptures to your understanding. There are some things I disagree with AG on. I get more and more convinced that the Davidic or Latter day servant is not a single superhuman individual but God's endowed/chosen latter day people (many are called but few are chosen).

there is only 1 end-time Davidic servant of the Lord

here- read these 2 comments I made and especially what these scriptures say and why.
viewtopic.php?p=1413913&hilit=there+is+ ... s#p1413913

It is my understanding there is to be one end-time servant (Davidic Servant), and One Mighty & Strong one. The former is a player on the world stage, the other is a character within Mormonism, who will set the church in order.

[Hogmeister]

I also found this event he will be participating in, looks exciting. I know nothing of Gileadi's works but if you think it is worth it let me know.

https://bookofmormonisaiah.com/a-day-of ... itute+Home

Definately worth if you put in the effort. Will open up the more difficult scriptures to your understanding. There are some things I disagree with AG on. I get more and more convinced that the Davidic or Latter day servant is not a single superhuman individual but God's endowed/chosen latter day people (many are called but few are chosen).

there is only 1 end-time Davidic servant of the Lord

here- read these 2 comments I made and especially what these scriptures say and why.
viewtopic.php?p=1413913&hilit=there+is+ ... s#p1413913

I have written 10 pages on why the end time servant that Isaiah is writing about is not a singular individual, just as the woman or virgin often is not. The prophets often use a singular form to represent the many or a people, depending on the "role" of the people the prophet want to illustrate or address. The name of Jacob or Israel is often used to represent God's people in different time periods, and not the ancient singular individual with the same name. Isaiah himself does this. Do Jacob or Israel the singluar individual walk the earth again in the last days according to Isaiah or is Isaiah addressing God's chosen people (taken/gathered from the ends of the earth Isa 41:9) in the last days? Amazing that it is so difficult of a concept.

Isa41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. 9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

Nephi is expounding Isaiah in plainess as Nephi delights in plainess but Nephi never really addresses the concept of a singular end time servant individual in Isaiah, but rather expounds from Isaiah on the mission and situation of God's people (God's servant Jacob/Israel) in the end times.

[Being There]

Definately worth if you put in the effort. Will open up the more difficult scriptures to your understanding. There are some things I disagree with AG on. I get more and more convinced that the Davidic or Latter day servant is not a single superhuman individual but God's endowed/chosen latter day people (many are called but few are chosen).

there is only 1 end-time Davidic servant of the Lord

here- read these 2 comments I made and especially what these scriptures say and why.
viewtopic.php?p=1413913&hilit=there+is+ ... s#p1413913

It is my understanding there is to be one end-time servant (Davidic Servant), and One Mighty & Strong one. The former is a player on the world stage, the other is a character within Mormonism, who will set the church in order.

sounds good, but not correct - please try to study these scriptures, and it will show you why
they are the same person - OMAS and the DS
I've already gone over this - more than once with you.
but here it is again.

please don't just try to refute it.
if you really are looking for the truth, you don't have to listen to me,
just read the scriptures, and they speak for themselves.

* and sorry - the color is kinda not exactly right - with who I am referring to,
but I don't have time right now to fix it.


The One Mighty and Strong - in D&C 85
is the Lord's end-time Davidic servant
as found in Isaiah.

look for word links. ********

ALSO the word "inheritances" is clue.
shall return, and come to their inheritances,

is a key word, in showing the time -
the time after the U.S. is cleansed and swept clean - destroyed and become "the waste places of Zion" -
"the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come,
and shall build up the waste places of Zion"
and (come to their inheritances - and Zion is established)
"that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem"


about inheritances, and the end-times -after the U.S is destroyed,
and about the Lord's end-time servant - The one mighty and strong -
who appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near.

ALSO
Most don't know this, and are only familiar with the Mighty and Strong One
that is spoken of in D&C 85 who is the Lord's end-time servant.
7-8: “And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send ********one mighty and strong,
holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words;
while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth to set in order the house of God,
********and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God; while that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by a vivid shaft of lightening.”

quote
"I once heard an LDS lecturer declare: “If the authorities knew how many problems this scripture was going to cause them, they would have never let it in the Doctrine and Covenants.” This may be true and the present day authorities would love to rip this section out of the book, but since it would bring criticism from the people, they decided to ignore it instead.
Even if it were taken out of the D&C (which may possibly happen in the future), it would still be in Isaiah,
and all the Bibles in the world cannot be changed."

Isaiah speaks of both "mighty and strong". There are 2 of them.
1. is His right hand, is the Lord's Davidic servant.
2. is His left hand, the king of Assyria. (Isaiah 28:2)
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/search? ... of+Assyria

Isaiah 28
2 My Lord has in store******** one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters”
identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
******** A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies
(Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground
(cf. vv 1, 3).


His right hand, is the Lord's Davidic servant. (below)
Isaiah 34

16 Search, and read it in the book of Jehovah: None is unaccounted for, not one lacks her mate.
By his mouth he decreed it,
by his Spirit he brings them together.
17 ******** It is he who allots them an inheritance, his hand that divides it by measure.
They shall possess it forever,
inhabit it from generation to generation.

Carrying bird imagery a step further, Isaiah shows that Jehovah assigns each female a mate by an edict recorded in his “book”—the Book of Life. Jehovah’s mouth—his servant—“decrees” or “ordains” (siwwa) it, while Jehovah’s Spirit brings them together so that they find one another. Jehovah’s hand—his servant—assigns them permanent inheritances in the land, as did Joshua:
“I have created you and appointed you to be a covenant of the people,
******** to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates” (Isaiah 49:8; cf. Joshua 11:23).
Unlike in modern times, divine inheritances are never sold.


Isaiah 49

8 Thus says Jehovah:At a favorable time I have answered you; in the day of salvation I have come to your aid:
******** I have created you and appointed you to be a covenant of the people,to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates,
9 to say to the captives, Come forth!
and to those in darkness, Show yourselves! They shall feed along the way and find pasture on all barren heights;

The servant’s reversal of circumstances portends a reversal of circumstances for Jehovah’s elect.
As Jehovah empowers his servant, so the servant empowers them (Isaiah 61:1-5).
Both follow the same pattern of loyalty to Jehovah: “Your faithfulness in time [of trial] shall prove to be a strength, your wisdom and knowledge your salvation” (Isaiah 33:6).
The “favorable time” in which Jehovah answers his servant’s intercession on behalf of his people
under the terms of the Davidic Covenant coincides with the “day of salvation”—Jehovah’s Day of Judgment that precedes his coming to the earth.

Jehovah’s “creating” or re-creating and “appointing” his servant as a covenant to his people (cf. Isaiah 42:6)
denotes his ascent to the seraph level and his role as mediator of Jehovah’s covenant.
After freeing the spiritual captives of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 42:7)—those who were blind and deaf on account of their idolatries (Isaiah 42:17-20)—the servant frees them physically (vv 24-25; Isaiah 45:13).
Those who were subject to physical darkness—to the king of Assyria/Babylon—
******** the servant appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near (v 8; Isaiah 52:7; 58:8, 12).


"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed;
for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.
And there shall rise up one mighty among them [the seed of Lehi], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren." (2 Nephi 3:23-24)

[HereWeGo]

TBH I never heard of him till this thread. But it is an investment that I will make.

Endtime Prophesy is a great book. The last chapter is about the "latterday mormon gentile church" as he calls it. He backs up all of his conclusions with scriptural quotations.
https://isaiahinstitute.com/product/end ... -analysis/

[Shawn Henry]

If it was a sin - or a bad thing to do, or wrong - He would have condemned it. AND HE DIDN'T !

He did Einstein! He did it in plain language, but you don't believe the BoM!

He told Jacob to go to the temple and get his words. Christ's words regarding polygamy are: "which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord"!!!

Calling something an abomination is a condemnation. How exactly do you not understand simple language? Does Barney need to come and break it down for you!

you should have read my comment below before yelling so loud -
I think I made that clear - with my comment about the Book of Mormon and only having 1 wife,
(but it really doesn't change anything very much anyway)

and btw thanks for calling me Einstein - Einstein was great.

However, anyway, we can not just throw out the Bible, and everything I have said,
and just accept the Book of Mormon only.

These were real people - like our father Abraham
Great prophets - these great men had more than 1 wife !

so I'm sorry for all you guys who are so against that,
but there is no way to get around those facts -
no matter how much you cry about it - and jump up and down;
or even try to twist the scriptures like many do,
but I'm not going to be pulled into just another 100th debate on this -
because really - I just don't care -
but I do care about the truth.

Yeah, my emotions definitely showed, sorry about that, but these are not necessarily facts.

One could make the point that the Brass Plates show Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had only one wife because when the Nephites use the Brass Plates to excuse themselves for the practice, they list David and Soloman as the reason. If the Plates allowed for the narrative, they would have also listed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but they didn't list them, therefore the Brass Plates vindicate them. A little reverse engineering and your problem is solved. It's an abomination.

[Robin Hood]

there is only 1 end-time Davidic servant of the Lord

here- read these 2 comments I made and especially what these scriptures say and why.
viewtopic.php?p=1413913&hilit=there+is+ ... s#p1413913

It is my understanding there is to be one end-time servant (Davidic Servant), and One Mighty & Strong one. The former is a player on the world stage, the other is a character within Mormonism, who will set the church in order.

sounds good, but not correct - please try to study these scriptures, and it will show you why
they are the same person - OMAS and the DS
I've already gone over this - more than once with you.
but here it is again.

please don't just try to refute it.
if you really are looking for the truth, you don't have to listen to me,
just read the scriptures, and they speak for themselves.

* and sorry - the color is kinda not exactly right - with who I am referring to,
but I don't have time right now to fix it.


The One Mighty and Strong - in D&C 85
is the Lord's end-time Davidic servant
as found in Isaiah.

look for word links. ********

ALSO the word "inheritances" is clue.
shall return, and come to their inheritances,

is a key word, in showing the time -
the time after the U.S. is cleansed and swept clean - destroyed and become "the waste places of Zion" -
"the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come,
and shall build up the waste places of Zion"
and (come to their inheritances - and Zion is established)
"that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem"


about inheritances, and the end-times -after the U.S is destroyed,
and about the Lord's end-time servant - The one mighty and strong -
who appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near.

ALSO
Most don't know this, and are only familiar with the Mighty and Strong One
that is spoken of in D&C 85 who is the Lord's end-time servant.
7-8: “And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send ********one mighty and strong,
holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words;
while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth to set in order the house of God,
********and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God; while that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by a vivid shaft of lightening.”

quote
"I once heard an LDS lecturer declare: “If the authorities knew how many problems this scripture was going to cause them, they would have never let it in the Doctrine and Covenants.” This may be true and the present day authorities would love to rip this section out of the book, but since it would bring criticism from the people, they decided to ignore it instead.
Even if it were taken out of the D&C (which may possibly happen in the future), it would still be in Isaiah,
and all the Bibles in the world cannot be changed."

Isaiah speaks of both "mighty and strong". There are 2 of them.
1. is His right hand, is the Lord's Davidic servant.
2. is His left hand, the king of Assyria. (Isaiah 28:2)
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/search? ... of+Assyria

Isaiah 28
2 My Lord has in store******** one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters”
identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
******** A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies
(Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground
(cf. vv 1, 3).


His right hand, is the Lord's Davidic servant. (below)
Isaiah 34

16 Search, and read it in the book of Jehovah: None is unaccounted for, not one lacks her mate.
By his mouth he decreed it,
by his Spirit he brings them together.
17 ******** It is he who allots them an inheritance, his hand that divides it by measure.
They shall possess it forever,
inhabit it from generation to generation.

Carrying bird imagery a step further, Isaiah shows that Jehovah assigns each female a mate by an edict recorded in his “book”—the Book of Life. Jehovah’s mouth—his servant—“decrees” or “ordains” (siwwa) it, while Jehovah’s Spirit brings them together so that they find one another. Jehovah’s hand—his servant—assigns them permanent inheritances in the land, as did Joshua:
“I have created you and appointed you to be a covenant of the people,
******** to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates” (Isaiah 49:8; cf. Joshua 11:23).
Unlike in modern times, divine inheritances are never sold.


Isaiah 49

8 Thus says Jehovah:At a favorable time I have answered you; in the day of salvation I have come to your aid:
******** I have created you and appointed you to be a covenant of the people,to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates,
9 to say to the captives, Come forth!
and to those in darkness, Show yourselves! They shall feed along the way and find pasture on all barren heights;

The servant’s reversal of circumstances portends a reversal of circumstances for Jehovah’s elect.
As Jehovah empowers his servant, so the servant empowers them (Isaiah 61:1-5).
Both follow the same pattern of loyalty to Jehovah: “Your faithfulness in time [of trial] shall prove to be a strength, your wisdom and knowledge your salvation” (Isaiah 33:6).
The “favorable time” in which Jehovah answers his servant’s intercession on behalf of his people
under the terms of the Davidic Covenant coincides with the “day of salvation”—Jehovah’s Day of Judgment that precedes his coming to the earth.

Jehovah’s “creating” or re-creating and “appointing” his servant as a covenant to his people (cf. Isaiah 42:6)
denotes his ascent to the seraph level and his role as mediator of Jehovah’s covenant.
After freeing the spiritual captives of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 42:7)—those who were blind and deaf on account of their idolatries (Isaiah 42:17-20)—the servant frees them physically (vv 24-25; Isaiah 45:13).
Those who were subject to physical darkness—to the king of Assyria/Babylon—
******** the servant appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near (v 8; Isaiah 52:7; 58:8, 12).


"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed;
for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.
And there shall rise up one mighty among them [the seed of Lehi], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren." (2 Nephi 3:23-24)

Thank you for taking the time to explain your position on this matter. I have read it through and understand why you believe as you do.
I am still of the opinion that they are two different characters though, one concerned with House of Israel in the old world/Jerusalem and their interface with the world at large, the other specifically with the Saints, particularly in the new world/New Jerusalem, and nothing you have written causes me to question or re-evaluate that position at this time.
However, I am open to additional light and truth, so will keep my position on this matter under review.

[Being There]

It is my understanding there is to be one end-time servant (Davidic Servant), and One Mighty & Strong one. The former is a player on the world stage, the other is a character within Mormonism, who will set the church in order.

sounds good, but not correct - please try to study these scriptures, and it will show you why
they are the same person - OMAS and the DS
I've already gone over this - more than once with you.
but here it is again.

please don't just try to refute it.
if you really are looking for the truth, you don't have to listen to me,
just read the scriptures, and they speak for themselves.

* and sorry - the color is kinda not exactly right - with who I am referring to,
but I don't have time right now to fix it.


The One Mighty and Strong - in D&C 85
is the Lord's end-time Davidic servant
as found in Isaiah.

look for word links. ********

ALSO the word "inheritances" is clue.
shall return, and come to their inheritances,

is a key word, in showing the time -
the time after the U.S. is cleansed and swept clean - destroyed and become "the waste places of Zion" -
"the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come,
and shall build up the waste places of Zion"
and (come to their inheritances - and Zion is established)
"that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem"


about inheritances, and the end-times -after the U.S is destroyed,
and about the Lord's end-time servant - The one mighty and strong -
who appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near.

ALSO
Most don't know this, and are only familiar with the Mighty and Strong One
that is spoken of in D&C 85 who is the Lord's end-time servant.
7-8: “And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send ********one mighty and strong,
holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words;
while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth to set in order the house of God,
********and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God; while that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by a vivid shaft of lightening.”

quote
"I once heard an LDS lecturer declare: “If the authorities knew how many problems this scripture was going to cause them, they would have never let it in the Doctrine and Covenants.” This may be true and the present day authorities would love to rip this section out of the book, but since it would bring criticism from the people, they decided to ignore it instead.
Even if it were taken out of the D&C (which may possibly happen in the future), it would still be in Isaiah,
and all the Bibles in the world cannot be changed."

Isaiah speaks of both "mighty and strong". There are 2 of them.
1. is His right hand, is the Lord's Davidic servant.
2. is His left hand, the king of Assyria. (Isaiah 28:2)
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/search? ... of+Assyria

Isaiah 28
2 My Lord has in store******** one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,
or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters”
identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
******** A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last.
Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies
(Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground
(cf. vv 1, 3).


His right hand, is the Lord's Davidic servant. (below)
Isaiah 34

16 Search, and read it in the book of Jehovah: None is unaccounted for, not one lacks her mate.
By his mouth he decreed it,
by his Spirit he brings them together.
17 ******** It is he who allots them an inheritance, his hand that divides it by measure.
They shall possess it forever,
inhabit it from generation to generation.

Carrying bird imagery a step further, Isaiah shows that Jehovah assigns each female a mate by an edict recorded in his “book”—the Book of Life. Jehovah’s mouth—his servant—“decrees” or “ordains” (siwwa) it, while Jehovah’s Spirit brings them together so that they find one another. Jehovah’s hand—his servant—assigns them permanent inheritances in the land, as did Joshua:
“I have created you and appointed you to be a covenant of the people,
******** to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates” (Isaiah 49:8; cf. Joshua 11:23).
Unlike in modern times, divine inheritances are never sold.


Isaiah 49

8 Thus says Jehovah:At a favorable time I have answered you; in the day of salvation I have come to your aid:
******** I have created you and appointed you to be a covenant of the people,to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates,
9 to say to the captives, Come forth!
and to those in darkness, Show yourselves! They shall feed along the way and find pasture on all barren heights;

The servant’s reversal of circumstances portends a reversal of circumstances for Jehovah’s elect.
As Jehovah empowers his servant, so the servant empowers them (Isaiah 61:1-5).
Both follow the same pattern of loyalty to Jehovah: “Your faithfulness in time [of trial] shall prove to be a strength, your wisdom and knowledge your salvation” (Isaiah 33:6).
The “favorable time” in which Jehovah answers his servant’s intercession on behalf of his people
under the terms of the Davidic Covenant coincides with the “day of salvation”—Jehovah’s Day of Judgment that precedes his coming to the earth.

Jehovah’s “creating” or re-creating and “appointing” his servant as a covenant to his people (cf. Isaiah 42:6)
denotes his ascent to the seraph level and his role as mediator of Jehovah’s covenant.
After freeing the spiritual captives of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 42:7)—those who were blind and deaf on account of their idolatries (Isaiah 42:17-20)—the servant frees them physically (vv 24-25; Isaiah 45:13).
Those who were subject to physical darkness—to the king of Assyria/Babylon—
******** the servant appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near (v 8; Isaiah 52:7; 58:8, 12).


"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed;
for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.
And there shall rise up one mighty among them [the seed of Lehi], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren." (2 Nephi 3:23-24)

Thank you for taking the time to explain your position on this matter. I have read it through and understand why you believe as you do.
I am still of the opinion that they are two different characters though, one concerned with House of Israel in the old world/Jerusalem and their interface with the world at large, the other specifically with the Saints, particularly in the new world/New Jerusalem, and nothing you have written causes me to question or re-evaluate that position at this time.
However, I am open to additional light and truth, so will keep my position on this matter under review.

I understand what you are saying,
but I guess for this particular situation, I just trust what the scriptures say about this,
and by what the scriptures say,
it would be very unlikely, or even impossible,
for the same words to be used, describing the same mission that this servant will do,
and unnecessary for there to be 2 servants doing the exact same thing.
It just has to be the same servant - the same person - by what the scriptures are saying.

Because the same wording is being used - in both the D&C, and in Isaiah,
and say the same things that this servant will do -
it must be one and the same person - the Davidic servant - who is the OMAS.

what I've found over the years - with studying the scriptures -
is that you have to look very closely at the same wording being used,
and compare to other scriptures.

I guess I really haven't even taken the time myself,
to do what I just said to do, and really study this - word by word.

Now that I see this - in every single sentence in this D&C sec 85
I can show you - in the scriptures - like in Isaiah etc.,
that every single thing - is describing and what the Lord's end-time DS will do.

don't have the time to do a good job at this - and show the corresponding scripture,
but look at what I've said in blue, and it's exactly what happens
and what the Lord's DS does.



with just this one set of scriptures - you should be able to see this -



7. And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering,
the Lord will send him, and He will have the power of the Lord with him.

whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth,
this is true - because he will come and have Christ's words - the sealed portion.

to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;
this is also true - and is exactly what is said he does in the Isaiah scriptures
that I've shown you.and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints



8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.
this verse is explaining someone else and doesn't apply.

9 And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.
this verse like verse 7 also uses the word "inheritance" and also
says "their portion shall be appointed them among", which is like what is said in verse 7 -
"and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints" - like in Isaiah 34:17
and in Isaiah 49:8

I can't take anymore time on this,
and I hope you find - not just what you are looking for - but the truth.

[Being There]

He did Einstein! He did it in plain language, but you don't believe the BoM!

He told Jacob to go to the temple and get his words. Christ's words regarding polygamy are: "which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord"!!!

Calling something an abomination is a condemnation. How exactly do you not understand simple language? Does Barney need to come and break it down for you!

you should have read my comment below before yelling so loud -
I think I made that clear - with my comment about the Book of Mormon and only having 1 wife,
(but it really doesn't change anything very much anyway)

and btw thanks for calling me Einstein - Einstein was great.

However, anyway, we can not just throw out the Bible, and everything I have said,
and just accept the Book of Mormon only.

These were real people - like our father Abraham
Great prophets - these great men had more than 1 wife !

so I'm sorry for all you guys who are so against that,
but there is no way to get around those facts -
no matter how much you cry about it - and jump up and down;
or even try to twist the scriptures like many do,
but I'm not going to be pulled into just another 100th debate on this -
because really - I just don't care -
but I do care about the truth.

Yeah, my emotions definitely showed, sorry about that, but these are not necessarily facts.

One could make the point that the Brass Plates show Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had only one wife because when the Nephites use the Brass Plates to excuse themselves for the practice, they list David and Soloman as the reason. If the Plates allowed for the narrative, they would have also listed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but they didn't list them, therefore the Brass Plates vindicate them. A little reverse engineering and your problem is solved. It's an abomination.

lol.
but whatever you say -

facts ?
if you want to throw out the Bible - and all the great men -
and the many many that had more than 1 wife - and concubines,
you go right ahead.

as I've said -
"The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy."
If you can show me otherwise - I'm all ears.

again - as I've said many times now.
I'm NOT defending polygamy at all.
I don't really care one way or the other,.
but I DO CARE about the truth - and finding it -
and what the Bible says and what history tells us.

I think I'm through here,
just a waste of time for me - endless debates on polygamy -
a subject I don't even care about.

like me, you can be satisfied with your 1 wife;
or join with Luke. lol.
(just a friendly joke there Luke)