LDS Freedom Forum

Restored to perfect health, says Elder Renlund.

I hadn't heard of any miracles for or by the existing Q15.

I personally think this situation is exaggerated, but perhaps Holland is actually a believer. What do you think? I wondered if David Alexander was drunk?

I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings. I look forward to hearing his next talk and pray he will be comforted after the loss of his wife and his own health battles. May God also bless those that are Ill that they might exercise faith in the priesthood to be healed as we need divine help and assistance in these last days.

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings.

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:06 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings.

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings. I look forward to hearing his next talk and pray he will be comforted after the loss of his wife and his own health battles. May God also bless those that are Ill that they might exercise faith in the priesthood to be healed as we need divine help and assistance in these last days.

I'm glad he was healed too. I think however that it's faith in Christ that heals.

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 12:00 am I'm glad he was healed too. I think however that it's faith in Christ that heals.

Yes, if this was exclusive to the LDS church then that would mean something, however we know it is not.

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings. I look forward to hearing his next talk and pray he will be comforted after the loss of his wife and his own health battles. May God also bless those that are Ill that they might exercise faith in the priesthood to be healed as we need divine help and assistance in these last days.

Don't you mean "exercise faith in christ" rather than "exercise faith in the priesthood"? What does that even mean?

I just have a hard time believing anything that comes out of the church these day. We’ve been lied to for generations and seen copious amounts of Mormon-lore and deceit. I do wish any and all be healed by faith, but how often have we been fed stories of faith that turned out to be fabrications at best and lies at worst?

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:13 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:06 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings.

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

So in other words, he recovered naturally. I've never read of a miraculous healing that occurred over the space of several months.

Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Telavian wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:17 am

CuriousThinker wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 12:00 am I'm glad he was healed too. I think however that it's faith in Christ that heals.

Yes, if this was exclusive to the LDS church then that would mean something, however we know it is not.

If it even happened in the LDS church then that would mean something. Did they say "arise and walk," when they prayed for him? So your in the hospital receiving medical care and it works. Thats a miracle? Thats kind of what is supposed to happen. Theres a reason they didnt take Holland into the Holy of Holies, put him on an alter and pray continuously for his health. You know, maybe it was the blessings that healed Holland. My guess is that if he had died then the story would have been about how they gave him a blessing and a merciful god finally let his spirit be released. The story always changes to fit the narrative that we have the "one true church," and that the power of the priesthood is actually real and effective.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:13 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:06 pm

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

So in other words, he recovered naturally. I've never read of a miraculous healing that occurred over the space of several months.

The miracle and godsend of doctors? These things take time and faith to work. The right drugs and treatments can do wonders. (sarcasm)

I am awaiting the days when science really does amazing things to the point that it's flat out astonishing. I believe that the Q15's position in those days will be revelatory of where their faith lies. The power of man, the power of science with the obligatory kudos to "god". 'Miracles and Godsends'.

nightlight wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Well in their defense, you can’t really have a monopoly on faith. But you can on Mormon priesthood.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:06 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings.

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

Maybe he finally had the faith not to be healed...

ransomme wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 1:14 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:06 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:04 pm I am glad President Holland is still alive. I love his talks. I'm glad that God has spared his life for a season that we may continue to hear his counsel. Truly a miracle of priesthood blessings.

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

Maybe he finally had the faith not to be healed...

This is clearly the best comment in this thread. Probably the most accurate too.

nightlight wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:20 am Don't you mean "exercise faith in christ" rather than "exercise faith in the priesthood"? What does that even mean?

Many people don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. There is the faith to be healed, faith that the power of the priesthood can heal, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:13 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:06 pm

What took them so long to give him a blessing of healing? Hasn't he been sick for some time now?

It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

So in other words, he recovered naturally. I've never read of a miraculous healing that occurred over the space of several months.

Maybe he just got sick and tired of all the pretense of the 'blessings'!
The spirit of healing is a very, very, rare thing amongst Mormons.
All the quacks and surgeons get way more kudos than does Christ's healing power.

I tried to watch the video but his continuous idolizing became too much. So, only those with large families go to the Celestial Kingdom? What does that say to childless couples who wanted kids but didn't have any?

ummmmm..., in a way lds church top leaders, by saying depop method vaxxes are godsend and safe&effective and follow the φᾰρμᾰκείᾱ-pharmakeíālly-handpicked-nurtured even proff rmn, have been outliving all those death jab victims world-wide month by month, week by week, day by day, minute by minute, microsec ..

Sunain wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 2:09 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:20 am Don't you mean "exercise faith in christ" rather than "exercise faith in the priesthood"? What does that even mean?

Many people don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. There is the faith to be healed, faith that the power of the priesthood can heal, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:16 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 2:09 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:20 am Don't you mean "exercise faith in christ" rather than "exercise faith in the priesthood"? What does that even mean?

Many people don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. There is the faith to be healed, faith that the power of the priesthood can heal, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

Iohani Wolfgramm raised several people from the dead. His story is quite fascinating. A friend of mine knew him and recounted the story of when Iohani told him he had receive the gift of healing from the Savior.

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:16 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 2:09 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:20 am Don't you mean "exercise faith in christ" rather than "exercise faith in the priesthood"? What does that even mean?

Many people don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. There is the faith to be healed, faith that the power of the priesthood can heal, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

A lot of LDS will look at what you said and say, "it's wicked to ask for a sign"

This only damns them further.

They might not realize what they're saying, but in their subconscious... they are making themselves out to be God. As if you questioning them is questioning God.

But it's a simple fact that someone could believe fully in Jesus Christ, but the proof they're asking for as nothing to do with their belief in Jesus Christ, just the claims of one who claims apostolic

"17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."


"and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."
++++++++++

They don't even talk about casting out devils, they simply just don't do it

They talk about healing, but with caveats and with the "miracle" modern medicine

The fruits have been bastardized

This is also why we see the Brighamites make their church into an Old Testament(ish) version with Christian undertones and placeholders.

It's wild to live up to the New Testament. It is supernatural by definition

You can't fake it..... so you change it

But I really still believe that this is because of false traditions from our fathers

And I really do believe many of them still fit this description. I don't believe them to be bad

"they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men."

I also don't believe I'm better than that description either

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:32 pm

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:16 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 2:09 pm

Many people don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. There is the faith to be healed, faith that the power of the priesthood can heal, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

Iohani Wolfgramm raised several people from the dead. His story is quite fascinating. A friend of mine knew him and recounted the story of when Iohani told him he had receive the gift of healing from the Savior.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third, fourth, fifth had accounts. Im asking for firsthand accounts. I was there. I was raised from the dead by the priesthood. I healed the blind and maimed. Etc. I am tired of the faith building but either false or half-truth stories. Give me a real example to believ it. Or has faith withered that much that no one heals anymore? Or.perhaps the stories of old are also lies meant to gain followers and believers?