LDS Freedom Forum

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 6:22 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:32 pm

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:16 pm

Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

Iohani Wolfgramm raised several people from the dead. His story is quite fascinating. A friend of mine knew him and recounted the story of when Iohani told him he had receive the gift of healing from the Savior.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third, fourth, fifth had accounts. Im asking for firsthand accounts. I was there. I was raised from the dead by the priesthood. I healed the blind and maimed. Etc. I am tired of the faith building but either false or half-truth stories. Give me a real example to believ it. Or has faith withered that much that no one heals anymore? Or.perhaps the stories of old are also lies meant to gain followers and believers?

No, these are first-hand stories. He's written a book on them and about his life as well. Don't poo poo something unless you are willing to make the effort to study them for yourself. And if you don't want to... whatever, don't.

It seems blasphemous to repeat the priesthood blessings. It only requires one blessing, then faith. Does the number of blessings they repeat to someone mean they love that person more than people who receive a single blessing? Does “blessing” actually mean something else they were doing to Holland during these visits?

logicalheart wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:24 pm It seems blasphemous to repeat the priesthood blessings. It only requires one blessing, then faith. Does the number of blessings they repeat to someone mean they love that person more than people who receive a single blessing? Does “blessing” actually mean something else they were doing to Holland during these visits?

Getting rid of his double chin couldn't hurt. A doctor with a brain might even suggest losing 50 pounds. I don't think the second anointing means he can disregard wisdom in eating and expect to be healthy.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am I just have a hard time believing anything that comes out of the church these day. We’ve been lied to for generations and seen copious amounts of Mormon-lore and deceit. I do wish any and all be healed by faith, but how often have we been fed stories of faith that turned out to be fabrications at best and lies at worst?

Then there's the problem of bending over backward to disbelieve anything coming from the Brethren/leaders, or to believe in next to impossible ideas such as the RIchards/Taylor assassination of the Smith brothers.

larsenb wrote: ↑December 10th, 2023, 6:34 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am I just have a hard time believing anything that comes out of the church these day. We’ve been lied to for generations and seen copious amounts of Mormon-lore and deceit. I do wish any and all be healed by faith, but how often have we been fed stories of faith that turned out to be fabrications at best and lies at worst?

Then there's the problem of bending over backward to disbelieve anything coming from the Brethren/leaders, or to believe in next to impossible ideas such as the RIchards/Taylor assassination of the Smith brothers.

Swinging to extremes can always happen, but the lies from the religious corporation are pretty well known at this point. Holland himself has a tarnished record of honesty.

larsenb wrote: ↑December 10th, 2023, 6:34 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am I just have a hard time believing anything that comes out of the church these day. We’ve been lied to for generations and seen copious amounts of Mormon-lore and deceit. I do wish any and all be healed by faith, but how often have we been fed stories of faith that turned out to be fabrications at best and lies at worst?

Then there's the problem of bending over backward to disbelieve anything coming from the Brethren/leaders, or to believe in next to impossible ideas such as the RIchards/Taylor assassination of the Smith brothers.

This is generally what happens when a leadership group sets a poor track record of integrity/honesty or try to hide/obscure relevant historical facts. Those they lead eventually find it increasingly hard to trust them and rely on their own or some other groups theories and views to fill in the gaps.

FrankOne wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 11:32 am

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:13 pm
It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

So in other words, he recovered naturally. I've never read of a miraculous healing that occurred over the space of several months.

The miracle and godsend of doctors? These things take time and faith to work. The right drugs and treatments can do wonders. (sarcasm)

I am awaiting the days when science really does amazing things to the point that it's flat out astonishing. I believe that the Q15's position in those days will be revelatory of where their faith lies. The power of man, the power of science with the obligatory kudos to "god". 'Miracles and Godsends'.

A miraculous healing that occurs over several months could be if the person has a disease or injury that the drs all believe wont heal, wont get better and maybe will just get worse, slowly gets better until its gone, instead.

Lol.

“Mormon temple rituals key to retaining younger members, LDS leader says”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... unger-mem/

FrankOne wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 11:32 am

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:13 pm
It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

So in other words, he recovered naturally. I've never read of a miraculous healing that occurred over the space of several months.

The miracle and godsend of doctors? These things take time and faith to work. The right drugs and treatments can do wonders. (sarcasm)

I am awaiting the days when science really does amazing things to the point that it's flat out astonishing. I believe that the Q15's position in those days will be revelatory of where their faith lies. The power of man, the power of science with the obligatory kudos to "god". 'Miracles and Godsends'.

Those days have started. Look up home websites for quantumtouch.com, emofree.com, peakstates.com, ICNR.com, etc.--lots and lots of testimonials and case studies of "miraculous" healings. Not so many perfected yet, and mostly not as powerful as the "get up and walk" ones. I think much of this will be handy in the last days.

SunriseBoy wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 3:18 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:26 am

Sunain wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:13 pm
It sounds like President Ballard and Renlund gave him multiple blessings, each time they visited.

So in other words, he recovered naturally. I've never read of a miraculous healing that occurred over the space of several months.

Maybe he just got sick and tired of all the pretense of the 'blessings'!
The spirit of healing is a very, very, rare thing amongst Mormons.
All the quacks and surgeons get way more kudos than does Christ's healing power.

Sometimes that gift of healing is there, but you need unhealthy people to actually want it, and are willing to listen and give it a go. That is what I find is very, very rare.

Yes, quacks and surgeons often do!

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:16 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 2:09 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 9:53 am Good for Holland

Teaching that there are two separate healing types, one of faith...and one of priesthood, is an excellent microcosm of what's wrong

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 8:20 am Don't you mean "exercise faith in christ" rather than "exercise faith in the priesthood"? What does that even mean?

Many people don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. There is the faith to be healed, faith that the power of the priesthood can heal, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

Guy had messed up neck, complications; got a priesthood blessing; neck and everything all cleared up immediately, both verified by his words and his actions.

BTW, the gift of healing (physical, emotional, spiritual) does not always come through a priesthood blessing of laying on of hands.

Is it greater to bring someone back to life spiritually, or to do so physically?

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:16 pm Please give us a verifiable, first hand account of the priesthood healing. Not someone undergoing chemo and they received a blessing and four months later the cancer was gone. I want a story about grandpa getting shot in the face, dying, son gives him a blessing to be healed and grandpa stands up and continues hunt right them and there. I want some real faith promoting story. Not something about a dude in the hospital for three weeks and miraculously after then 53rd priesthood blessing (and countless drugs and medical intervention) he feels better. Oh it must have been the priesthood blessings! Arent we promised by Christ that if you have enough faith you could in fact command the dead to arise and walk? Right then and there. Bam. Your alive! So where is that faith? These dudes are claiming to be Christs right hand men on Earth. Then prove it. Show us your faith. Stop giving us these fake, faith promoting stories. Stop claiming to be Christs apostles if you dont have the faith in or the power of Christ to command the sick to be well and the dead to rise .

Iohani Wolfgramm. He died a while ago, but his legacy lives on. I read his book "Man of Faith and Vision." I have an electronic copy. I've found a story that might fit what you are asking for and will copy it in a new post.

Edit: The story doesn't fit what you are asking in regards to apostles of the LDS Church. It concerns a very humble man and his little daughter. He did finally come to the mainland United States, and his fame spread until he was told not to give anymore blessings. I think he asked for permission later (to give at least one blessing), and it was given.

He was humble and he was obedient to his leaders. That obedient to his leaders part was a disservice to those he could have blessed after he was forbidden, but he was a very good man.

This is long for a post, so I will probably put it in more than one post. It took me a few minutes because a pdf has weird formatting when you copy and paste.

Starts on page 89 in the book (105 in the document).

I was finishing up the monthly reports for the Fo'u i Branch when the spirit told me to stop and look out the window, but I was too busy. The second time the spirit spoke to me he said, "Iohani, stop now and look out the window." Still I went on working. The third time I felt like someone was pushing me off the chair and told me to stop and look out the window. I was surprised to see a group of people hovering over something in the road and rushed out to find my family in trouble.

Many people, all at once, were trying to tell me what had happened, I could only see the body of my little girl Tisina with her head crushed and lifeless body laying in the street. My wife Salote had crossed the street to go to the home of Lolo and Mataele about 2:30 in the afternoon after sacrament meeting. Malina, Ana, Sale, and Tisina were to ld to wait unti l the road was clear to cross. They couldn't figure out how Tisina came loose from Malina's hand and tried to run after her mother, but she ran into the road and was hit by a car. The driver was unaware that he had hit Tisina and that her lifeless body was laying in the road. The next car was full of American soldiers who had just retumed from a sight seeing tour of the village of Ha'atafu and stopped immediately to help. Malina was the first one to try to pick Tisina's body off the street. Sale ran to hold her little head up but was too scared. Ana ran over and started to lift Tisina's body and saw the blood coming out through her mouth, nose, ears, and eyes. She was so frightened she dropped her and ran off. Salote came running and saw the blood on her face. She fainted by the roadway. Friends and neighbors came with a bucket of cold water to pour over Salote's face, then she finally came out of it.

My missionary companion Samuela Vehikite brought a mat to carry Tisina's body inside their house. A van arrived with American soldiers and offered to take Tisina back to the army hospital at Houma where an American doctor could see what could be done for the child. I agreed, so they put Tisina inside their truck and started for Houma about a mile away.

Edited because for some reason the pdf turned "I" into "J" twice.

Though shocked, I finally got my composure and ran after the truck and said, "Please stop, please. I just changed my mind. I forgot something very important to do for my daughter right now." In my mind, I had forgotten to give Tisina a priesthood blessing. I asked the soldiers if they would please back up their truck and bring Tisina into the home right away.

At this time, other churches had just barely let their members out from church. Sekona, a Samoan, call out and said, "lohani, don't try to act like God, but send your daughter to the hospital and see if a doctor can help her." Many were afraid and some were very upset with me, but I understood something that non-members did not. I called Samuela Vehikite to assist me by anointing the consecrated oil on Tisina's head, and as I began to utter the prayer, I couldn't say a word. My mouth was locked. My mind was blank. No words would come, but in a few minutes the spirit spoke to me in my mind that there were so many unbelievers in and out ofthe house that had no faith that Tisina would ever recover from her accident, that I should send the people home.

I immediately opened my eyes and asked the people if they wanted Tisina to came back to life to please leave my home now so we can pray for her. Oh my! Non-members were furious and started to spit at me. Some picked up rocks and started throwing them at the house as they were leaving, calling me names. I knew the American doctor might help Tisina walk again, but how about her brain? I knew that only God who created her, who gave her life, would be the only who that could help Tisina completely recover and bring her memory back to normal again. I asked Salote to go ahead and fix supper for the family, but I would go and pray for Tisina. I prayed and prayed and thanked the Lord for all his blessings to us, for sending us on the mission, but how I wouldn't like to part with any of my children yet because we have no white material for her burial nor funeral cloth in Tongatapu, but in Vava'u we did. I reminded the Lord of how he saved the Israelites by parting the waters of the Red Sea, how Christ raised people from the dead, and of the simple faith of a missionary who just had his daughter run over by a car and had been killed, you can understand of my love for her. 1 reviewed how Lazarus was raised after being in the tomb for four days, through faith and the power of the priesthood. I prayed and thanked the Lord for those great prophets of old and their faith and special callings in the church from Adam down to the prophet Joseph Smith. I said, "I don't want a funeral away from all my family, and if this little girl has a special mission on the earth to do, please spare her life so she can fulfil that blessing and her mission." I was on my knees over four hours that evening. Finally the Lord heard my prayer and said to me, "Tisina won't be with you tonight, but tomorrow."

A humble and very sweet warm feeling came over my heart and a great worry and fear was lifted from my shoulders that evening. I thanked God for the answer that I received. I opened my eyes slowly, filled with deep gratitude and tears of joy. I went over to Salote and said, "Not tonight, but tomorrow." Salote and the children didn't touch any food that evening. Everyone was shocked and felt so bad about Tisina.

Samuela Vehikite and I waited and waited all night long, and about 3:00 a.m. we felt the spirit fill our souls and knew that this was finally the right time for us to give Tisina her priesthood blessing. Samuela Vehikite anointed her and I sealed the blessing. I thanked the Lord and expressed his love to me in answering my prayers and said, "Tisina, by the power of the Melchizedek Priesthood which we hold, we ask Thee, our Heavenly Father, to bless Tisina from the top of her head all the way down to her toes, that every bone, muscle, nerve, blood vessel, skin, nails, hair or any part of her body that has been broken, lost or damaged, through the power of the priesthood which we hold we command it to retum to its normal place and start to function and to do their work, that she will be able to stand and her body will be retumed and renewed with all its parts and start to function as they were before. We promise you through the holy power of the priesthood that when the sun rises in the morning, you will be raised up together with the sun. And when other witnesses hear this testimony of Tisina, they will also testify that Jesus is the Christ and through him the Lord healed Tisina. Not tonight, but tomorrow Tisina will walk with the rest of the family as the spirit whispers."

After the blessing everyone knelt down before they went to bed and in a circle offered a prayer, then we retired. I came in the room where Tisina still had her face covered with a cloth. She was still dead. I picked her up and laid her little broken head on my arm and kept her body close to me. Hours seemed to pass. I finally dozed off and on for about two more hours and about 6:00 a.m. I felt someone playing around my face and touching my hair. I slowly opened my eyes and to my surprise saw Tisina standing up playing with my face and hair, with a big smile on her face.

I slowly reached out to feel Tisina's head. It was normal. I started to feel her hands, legs, face-everything that had been promised had come true. Samuela Vehikite remembered that in her priesthood blessing that when the sun rose up in the moming she would be raised up together with the sun. So he opened the window shades and sure enough, the sun had just barely risen in the sky.

How excited we were to have our little daughter back with us again. We sang a special hymn to thank God for her retum, and said a long prayer of thanksgiving by me. A few minutes later a knock came to our door. Our Aunt Marie and Uncle Maile Niu brought us Tisina's burial clothing and her burial box and asked where the dead child was. I said she was the one that answered the door. They were shocked and so relieved to know that the Lord had again blessed our family during our mission at Fo'ui. Maile Niu asked me what would be a special wish Tisina would like today? Tisina said, "Let's go for a picnic at the beach." So the family went to celebrate at Hahake beach. I want to testify to any of you who might read this story that it is true.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 4:32 pm Iohani Wolfgramm raised several people from the dead. His story is quite fascinating. A friend of mine knew him and recounted the story of when Iohani told him he had receive the gift of healing from the Savior.

You beat me to it. Yes, he raised several people from the dead.

Erastothenes wrote: ↑December 9th, 2023, 6:22 pm Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third, fourth, fifth had accounts. Im asking for firsthand accounts. I was there. I was raised from the dead by the priesthood. I healed the blind and maimed. Etc. I am tired of the faith building but either false or half-truth stories. Give me a real example to believ it. Or has faith withered that much that no one heals anymore? Or.perhaps the stories of old are also lies meant to gain followers and believers?

The story I shared was first-hand - from a book written by Iohani Wolfgramm, copied and pasted.

I'm seeing that I didn't catch all of the weird formatting pdf c&p has a tendency toward. Hopefully, it's readable anyway. I guess I could have screenshotted the story.

Here are the screenshots

Mamabear wrote: ↑December 11th, 2023, 6:53 pm Lol.

“Mormon temple rituals key to retaining younger members, LDS leader says”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... unger-mem/

that article -- so full of bs