LDS Freedom Forum

God hath from the beginning chosen the elect for salvation, 2 Thes. 2:13. This is one of many Biblical verses of scripture that at some point became false doctrine. What do I mean? It is not translated or possibly originally written incorrectly and has caused many to misunderstand and stumble. The Lord has once again in the latter days, given a crystal clear view of this principle. A plan has been chosen and instituted for our Heavenly Father's children. We are not pre ordained to succeed or fail.

The Prophet Joseph Smith spoke of intelligences as follows: "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them" (TPJS, p. 354).

The scriptural source for the word "intelligences" is the book of Abraham 3:21-22. The Lord instructed the patriarch Abraham regarding the premortal experiences of all who have been or ever will be upon the earth. Among those events was the Council in Heaven, at which the Father's Plan of Salvation for his children was discussed. Abraham wrote of this, "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them" (Abr. 3:22-23)

Try a different translation.
ESV:

13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

4Joshua8 wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 5:25 pm Try a different translation.
ESV:

13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now you are cooking. You have just pointed out a fact that I have mentioned in the past. I have often been told by protestants that every word of the Bible is perfect and without error, no mistakes. My answer over five decades now has always been the same to them. Alright, which translation is the "perfect one"?

Yet some are already elect and are great and or noble according to the Lord.

I do not think the Lord picks who is or will be elect. But it is obviously known in advance. We still chose but to say god doesn't know the outcome is contradictory. The difference between predetermined and fore ordained I guess.

BTW Jesus says he lost not one of the elect! and that the elect are numbered to him. And he said that 2000 years ago. He claims some knowledge.

TheDuke wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 6:11 pm Yet some are already elect and are great and or noble according to the Lord.

I do not think the Lord picks who is or will be elect. But it is obviously known in advance. We still chose but to say god doesn't know the outcome is contradictory. The difference between predetermined and fore ordained I guess.

BTW Jesus says he lost not one of the elect! and that the elect are numbered to him. And he said that 2000 years ago. He claims some knowledge.

It was at a later point in the pre earthly spirit world where we were accountable enough that Heavenly Father's plan was presented and we chose who to follow. That means we were so accountable that following Satan would end our chances to return to Heavenly Fater. By that time as TheDuke mentions, there were some who had shown themselves and had over time become great and noble, those the Lord said he would make leaders.

Many are called but few of those step forward and through the Lord's atonement make themselves the elect or the chosen. Yes, the Lord will not lose one of these. His promises are sure. Pre destination is false, we all have our agency.