LDS Freedom Forum

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:26 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:18 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 9:55 am
Then why have 12 ordained in Jerusalem and another 12 in the New World? What you are proposing is a dictatorship. The Lord can do as He pleases, and that includes being free to give his authority to many people.

Yes, the Lord can do as he pleases, and in that case they were in a whole different world so to speak, but for our time, there is only one who holds keys to perform all the ordinances.

Reluctant Watchman knows that those two groups of Apostles were separated by continents and he is creating a strawman argument. By the way, the Lord has absolute power to do this.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 7:57 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 7:50 pm

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 7:23 pm Here is my take on church leaders after many years of studying and living the gospel in the church. This is it, and not more or less is right. The Lord will replace any high church leader if they get too far off track and don't quickly get back on. The church and priesthood will remain on the earth from this time, never to be taken again through the Lord's second coming (see D&C 13 among other scripture). Should the Prophet go astray or need special guidance, our Lord will provide it in the due time to fulfil his purposes. He can visit and speak with the Prophet any time he wishes. We must be ready to receive revelation. We could print this and put it in a frame or on the refrigerator with a magnet. . This is all scripturally sound and true doctrine. It will not change. Once we understand it, we need to be ready to follow the spirit to be completely as far as humanly possible, making correct and righteous judgements and decisions.

Interesting how “my take” is nearly the opposite, after studying the scriptures, specifically the teachings of Christ.

JST Mark 9 would suggest that he won’t “replace” a leader, he invited us to trust in the Lord alone.

The righteous will remain on the Earth. In fact, the Lord specifically prophesied that he’d remove his gospel from wicked and apostate religions.

The Lord can and will raise up any number of prophets from various segment of society and cultures. The Lord and nearly all ancient prophets prophesied about the derelict nature of modern religious leaders. The LDS org is the epitome of apostasy and dereliction.

President Wilford Woodruff said: “The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty” (Official Declaration 1).

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 8:34 am

Seed Starter wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 9:42 pm I'm nearly done with my resignation letter. I will share when I'm done. I'm not leaving this forum but I'm done white-knuckling my membership in the LDS church. The cognitive dissonance is too much for me to tolerate a minute longer. I'm feeling a great deal of weight this evening. Not because I'm unsure about my decision but because I feel locked in the cage of my birth. Pulling myself through the bars is painful. I've been a member for over half a century (my entire life) and I know what to expect from some family and even some friends. I feel conditioned not to do what I'm doing and I never thought it would be so uncomfortable to reject the conditioning.

I've spent over 3 years praying, studying the scriptures, pondering, and researching this decision. I'm extremely sad because in my opinion the corporate church contradicts the Gospel of Christ and many of its leaders aren't who they said they were. I feel like my trust was taken advantage of in many ways. I love Christ and His gospel. He is my rock and the only way to salvation. I believe in the Book of Mormon. I believe the Holy Ghost can confirm the truth of all things. The crazy thing is my love for those two things is why I'm separating myself from the corporate church. I believe I've come to understand the difference between a mistake and wanton disobedience to Christ. Spiritually speaking I am a rootbound tree growing in a pot inside of a house. I want to be outside where I can stretch my roots deeply into the soil and I want to produce good fruit and shade for the weary. I want to protect smaller plants. I want to grow strong enough to handle the wind in my branches. I want the sunlight to shine down on me. I did not put myself in the pot but that pot is limiting my growth in many ways.

I realize many members are on this site and I have no ill will toward them. I appreciate all of the things I've been taught by all of you wonderful people. Even in disagreement, there are lessons for me to learn. I appreciate the acts of kindness I've experienced here. This feels like my home ward. Thank you! I would appreciate anyone who feels like praying for me and my family to do so.

The Church is true and still holds Priesthood authority despite any faults or past mistakes by leaders or members. The people are the Church, and we are a family. And we all know no family is perfect, and neither is any leader or member in the church. But the apostleship has not been taken away as it was before. The ordinances and covenants are gifts from God that seal you legally into his family. You need both the relationship with God, and the binding covenant done through Priesthood Keys to make your relationship legal or binding in heaven.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:26 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:18 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 9:55 am
Then why have 12 ordained in Jerusalem and another 12 in the New World? What you are proposing is a dictatorship. The Lord can do as He pleases, and that includes being free to give his authority to many people.

Yes, the Lord can do as he pleases, and in that case they were in a whole different world so to speak, but for our time, there is only one who holds keys to perform all the ordinances.

Reluctant Watchman knows that those two groups of Apostles were separated by continents and he is creating a strawman argument. By the way, the Lord has absolute power to do this.

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:35 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 8:34 am

Seed Starter wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 9:42 pm I'm nearly done with my resignation letter. I will share when I'm done. I'm not leaving this forum but I'm done white-knuckling my membership in the LDS church. The cognitive dissonance is too much for me to tolerate a minute longer. I'm feeling a great deal of weight this evening. Not because I'm unsure about my decision but because I feel locked in the cage of my birth. Pulling myself through the bars is painful. I've been a member for over half a century (my entire life) and I know what to expect from some family and even some friends. I feel conditioned not to do what I'm doing and I never thought it would be so uncomfortable to reject the conditioning.

I've spent over 3 years praying, studying the scriptures, pondering, and researching this decision. I'm extremely sad because in my opinion the corporate church contradicts the Gospel of Christ and many of its leaders aren't who they said they were. I feel like my trust was taken advantage of in many ways. I love Christ and His gospel. He is my rock and the only way to salvation. I believe in the Book of Mormon. I believe the Holy Ghost can confirm the truth of all things. The crazy thing is my love for those two things is why I'm separating myself from the corporate church. I believe I've come to understand the difference between a mistake and wanton disobedience to Christ. Spiritually speaking I am a rootbound tree growing in a pot inside of a house. I want to be outside where I can stretch my roots deeply into the soil and I want to produce good fruit and shade for the weary. I want to protect smaller plants. I want to grow strong enough to handle the wind in my branches. I want the sunlight to shine down on me. I did not put myself in the pot but that pot is limiting my growth in many ways.

I realize many members are on this site and I have no ill will toward them. I appreciate all of the things I've been taught by all of you wonderful people. Even in disagreement, there are lessons for me to learn. I appreciate the acts of kindness I've experienced here. This feels like my home ward. Thank you! I would appreciate anyone who feels like praying for me and my family to do so.

The Church is true and still holds Priesthood authority despite any faults or past mistakes by leaders or members. The people are the Church, and we are a family. And we all know no family is perfect, and neither is any leader or member in the church. But the apostleship has not been taken away as it was before. The ordinances and covenants are gifts from God that seal you legally into his family. You need both the relationship with God, and the binding covenant done through Priesthood Keys to make your relationship legal or binding in heaven.

The fact that there is an end to the time of the Gentiles because they reject the Gospel, by definition means that the Church will not survive. It already walks in much apostasy. The blind are leading the blind.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 7:57 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 7:50 pm

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 7th, 2023, 7:23 pm Here is my take on church leaders after many years of studying and living the gospel in the church. This is it, and not more or less is right. The Lord will replace any high church leader if they get too far off track and don't quickly get back on. The church and priesthood will remain on the earth from this time, never to be taken again through the Lord's second coming (see D&C 13 among other scripture). Should the Prophet go astray or need special guidance, our Lord will provide it in the due time to fulfil his purposes. He can visit and speak with the Prophet any time he wishes. We must be ready to receive revelation. We could print this and put it in a frame or on the refrigerator with a magnet. . This is all scripturally sound and true doctrine. It will not change. Once we understand it, we need to be ready to follow the spirit to be completely as far as humanly possible, making correct and righteous judgements and decisions.

Interesting how “my take” is nearly the opposite, after studying the scriptures, specifically the teachings of Christ.

JST Mark 9 would suggest that he won’t “replace” a leader, he invited us to trust in the Lord alone.

The righteous will remain on the Earth. In fact, the Lord specifically prophesied that he’d remove his gospel from wicked and apostate religions.

The Lord can and will raise up any number of prophets from various segment of society and cultures. The Lord and nearly all ancient prophets prophesied about the derelict nature of modern religious leaders. The LDS org is the epitome of apostasy and dereliction.

President Wilford Woodruff said: “The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty” (Official Declaration 1).

TwochurchesOnly wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:44 am

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:35 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 8:34 am

The Church is true and still holds Priesthood authority despite any faults or past mistakes by leaders or members. The people are the Church, and we are a family. And we all know no family is perfect, and neither is any leader or member in the church. But the apostleship has not been taken away as it was before. The ordinances and covenants are gifts from God that seal you legally into his family. You need both the relationship with God, and the binding covenant done through Priesthood Keys to make your relationship legal or binding in heaven.

The fact that there is an end to the time of the Gentiles because they reject the Gospel, by definition means that the Church will not survive. It already walks in much apostasy. The blind are leading the blind.

And they keep right on walking to the cliff- business/busy ness As Usual --
Filling vacated Q12 spots, as if they really have power, "keys" etc They love their high paying positions of administration, building the great Global "church"- cuz they are special witnesses of name of Christ...

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:48 am

TwochurchesOnly wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:44 am

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:35 am

The fact that there is an end to the time of the Gentiles because they reject the Gospel, by definition means that the Church will not survive. It already walks in much apostasy. The blind are leading the blind.

And they keep right on walking to the cliff- business/busy ness As Usual --
Filling vacated Q12 spots, as if they really have power, "keys" etc They love their high paying positions of administration, building the great Global "church"- cuz they are special witnesses of name of Christ...

I wonder if the next selected member of the 12 will be telling, or will they punt to throw people off.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:30 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:18 am Yes, the Lord can do as he pleases, and in that case they were in a whole different world so to speak, but for our time, there is only one who holds keys to perform all the ordinances.

Again, I have a different opinion. The man at the helm of the LDS church is the epitome of these verses:

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

If you are happy in the LDS church, great. While I can love my friends and family who remain, to remain in the church would be one of the most spiritually limiting things I could do.

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:35 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 8:34 am

Seed Starter wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 9:42 pm I'm nearly done with my resignation letter. I will share when I'm done. I'm not leaving this forum but I'm done white-knuckling my membership in the LDS church. The cognitive dissonance is too much for me to tolerate a minute longer. I'm feeling a great deal of weight this evening. Not because I'm unsure about my decision but because I feel locked in the cage of my birth. Pulling myself through the bars is painful. I've been a member for over half a century (my entire life) and I know what to expect from some family and even some friends. I feel conditioned not to do what I'm doing and I never thought it would be so uncomfortable to reject the conditioning.

I've spent over 3 years praying, studying the scriptures, pondering, and researching this decision. I'm extremely sad because in my opinion the corporate church contradicts the Gospel of Christ and many of its leaders aren't who they said they were. I feel like my trust was taken advantage of in many ways. I love Christ and His gospel. He is my rock and the only way to salvation. I believe in the Book of Mormon. I believe the Holy Ghost can confirm the truth of all things. The crazy thing is my love for those two things is why I'm separating myself from the corporate church. I believe I've come to understand the difference between a mistake and wanton disobedience to Christ. Spiritually speaking I am a rootbound tree growing in a pot inside of a house. I want to be outside where I can stretch my roots deeply into the soil and I want to produce good fruit and shade for the weary. I want to protect smaller plants. I want to grow strong enough to handle the wind in my branches. I want the sunlight to shine down on me. I did not put myself in the pot but that pot is limiting my growth in many ways.

I realize many members are on this site and I have no ill will toward them. I appreciate all of the things I've been taught by all of you wonderful people. Even in disagreement, there are lessons for me to learn. I appreciate the acts of kindness I've experienced here. This feels like my home ward. Thank you! I would appreciate anyone who feels like praying for me and my family to do so.

The Church is true and still holds Priesthood authority despite any faults or past mistakes by leaders or members. The people are the Church, and we are a family. And we all know no family is perfect, and neither is any leader or member in the church. But the apostleship has not been taken away as it was before. The ordinances and covenants are gifts from God that seal you legally into his family. You need both the relationship with God, and the binding covenant done through Priesthood Keys to make your relationship legal or binding in heaven.

The fact that there is an end to the time of the Gentiles because they reject the Gospel, by definition means that the Church will not survive. It already walks in much apostasy. The blind are leading the blind.

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:58 am

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:35 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 8:34 am

The Church is true and still holds Priesthood authority despite any faults or past mistakes by leaders or members. The people are the Church, and we are a family. And we all know no family is perfect, and neither is any leader or member in the church. But the apostleship has not been taken away as it was before. The ordinances and covenants are gifts from God that seal you legally into his family. You need both the relationship with God, and the binding covenant done through Priesthood Keys to make your relationship legal or binding in heaven.

The fact that there is an end to the time of the Gentiles because they reject the Gospel, by definition means that the Church will not survive. It already walks in much apostasy. The blind are leading the blind.

Someone has to bring the gospel to the gentiles. So when did the time end or has it yet?

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:53 am When it speaks of authority here, my guess is that this refers to eternal authority, or blessing of eternal authority he could receive. When someone's own behavior grieves the spirit, they no longer have power or authority personally. But as someone ordained in the church, they can still have authority to administer to others as there are all different levels of grieving the spirit. Leaders are admonished to not allow the unworthy and unclean to participate in the ordinances, but again, we are an imperfect family learning as we go, and we see in the primitive church, they having a problem with false teachers and liars. It will always be a problem with the Lord's covenant family.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:03 am This is the dispensation of the fullness of times, any in the church who don't understand what that means are either uninformed or in a state of apostacy to some degree. It will not be taken from the earth again. Therefore it would be a very good thing to focus on our induvial stewardships, and not bail because we have some disagreement with some church leaders. They will be accountable to the Lord for their actions as well. Don't worry about it.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:03 am This is the dispensation of the fullness of times, any in the church who don't understand what that means are either uninformed or in a state of apostacy to some degree. It will not be taken from the earth again. Therefore it would be a very good thing to focus on our induvial stewardships, and not bail because we have some disagreement with some church leaders. They will be accountable to the Lord for their actions as well. Don't worry about it.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:03 am This is the dispensation of the fullness of times, any in the church who don't understand what that means are either uninformed or in a state of apostacy to some degree. It will not be taken from the earth again. Therefore it would be a very good thing to focus on our induvial stewardships, and not bail because we have some disagreement with some church leaders. They will be accountable to the Lord for their actions as well. Don't worry about it.

43 And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the redemption of Zion.

44 A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set watchman round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a watchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his servants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

56 And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money.

57 Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.

58 And inasmuch as they gather together against you, avenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

59 And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

60 And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you;

61 And this shall be my seal and blessing upon you—a faithful and wise steward in the midst of mine house, a ruler in my kingdom.

62 And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:00 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:58 am

ransomme wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:35 am

The fact that there is an end to the time of the Gentiles because they reject the Gospel, by definition means that the Church will not survive. It already walks in much apostasy. The blind are leading the blind.

Someone has to bring the gospel to the gentiles. So when did the time end or has it yet?

The gospel is brought by disciples of Christ, individuals. It is brought by individuals to other individuals. It does not need a legally defined corporation to do so.

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:58 am Someone has to bring the gospel to the gentiles. So when did the time end or has it yet?

HereWeGo wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:23 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:58 am Someone has to bring the gospel to the gentiles. So when did the time end or has it yet?

When the BoM speaks of the Gentiles in the last days, it is speaking of the "Latter-day Mormon Gentiles" as Avraham Gileadi points out.

HereWeGo wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:23 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:58 am Someone has to bring the gospel to the gentiles. So when did the time end or has it yet?

When the BoM speaks of the Gentiles in the last days, it is speaking of the "Latter-day Mormon Gentiles" as Avraham Gileadi points out.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:21 am

John Tavner wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 9:49 am

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 9:41 am

The apostles were taken from the earth along with the fullness of Priesthood Keys.

According to who? See the funny thing about keys is they can just be handed around by laying hands on people's heads (at least the way The LDS church use them). So there isn't a need to be an Apostle to have all the keys. No rule anywhere says that. If there is a rule, then we need to discuss what an Apostle really is - and then discuss whether or not those who claim to be apostles are really apostles. At the very least. The bishopric still exists in the catholic church according to the way LDS people use the term keys.

We have a lot of traditions that say things... but very little source material for it... most of our tradtional views derive from about 2-3 generations after J.Smith.

Additionally I would ask what is the "fullness" of priesthood keys. Can you have "halfness?" of priesthood keys? So that can be passed around by laying on of hands? Sounds like there are probably milions of people not LDS that still have keys because hands were laid upon their head and what they ahve is perfectly valid because they've been passed down for generations.

You might study gospel dispensations, there is no Halfness.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:07 am

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:03 am This is the dispensation of the fullness of times, any in the church who don't understand what that means are either uninformed or in a state of apostacy to some degree. It will not be taken from the earth again. Therefore it would be a very good thing to focus on our induvial stewardships, and not bail because we have some disagreement with some church leaders. They will be accountable to the Lord for their actions as well. Don't worry about it.

Or the church and its members are high on their own pride and arrogance to think the Lord would never allow a church to fall into apostasy via incorrect doctrine. Oh, did I mention false doctrine is taught in the church? See Exhibit A:

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye

The church can't even live the Law of Consecration, how in the world are they gonna pull that one off while they hide their billions upon billions of dollars? Apostasy is changing doctrine. The church has done that since they murdered Joseph and his brothers.

John Tavner wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:38 am

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 10:21 am

John Tavner wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 9:49 am

According to who? See the funny thing about keys is they can just be handed around by laying hands on people's heads (at least the way The LDS church use them). So there isn't a need to be an Apostle to have all the keys. No rule anywhere says that. If there is a rule, then we need to discuss what an Apostle really is - and then discuss whether or not those who claim to be apostles are really apostles. At the very least. The bishopric still exists in the catholic church according to the way LDS people use the term keys.

We have a lot of traditions that say things... but very little source material for it... most of our tradtional views derive from about 2-3 generations after J.Smith.

Additionally I would ask what is the "fullness" of priesthood keys. Can you have "halfness?" of priesthood keys? So that can be passed around by laying on of hands? Sounds like there are probably milions of people not LDS that still have keys because hands were laid upon their head and what they ahve is perfectly valid because they've been passed down for generations.

You might study gospel dispensations, there is no Halfness.

I have studied. The word Keys makes an appearance ONLY in this dispensation and it isn't even used consistently within the same context through out this "dispensation". Words mean things. So why use "fullness of priesthood keys" There MUST be a less than fullness of preisthood keys if that is the case. Otherwise they just are, or aren't. Anytime I speak with God and receive revelation, I am receiving a "Gospel dispensation" Why? because God is good. Gospel = good news. I have received a dispensing of good news. Words matter, we just made them mean something they aren't because we accepted what someone else told us without looking at things in context or actually studied it out with the intent to know the heart of God.

HereWeGo wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:23 am
When the BoM speaks of the Gentiles in the last days, it is speaking of the "Latter-day Mormon Gentiles" as Avraham Gileadi points out.

Sarah wrote: ↑December 8th, 2023, 11:39 am The Law can be lived. What we aren't doing is living the commandment to lay down everything we own before the Bishop, fulfilling the law of stewardship and consecration. And these things were done through covenant. So perhaps someone with Priesthood keys will administer that covenant of consecrating certain things. My guess is that the brethren have decided, perhaps through revelation, that this commandment isn't going to work on a large scale for our current circumstances.