LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm**

tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:07 am For a mortal man to have actual “sealing” power, like Nephi III, what he does has to be binding on God.

Just curious who believes that what the current “PSRs” are doing is binding on God, and why?

The Lord said when we do what he says he is bound. God cannot lie.

Therefore:
1. If I believe that God himself revealed eternal marriage sealings by revelation to Joseph Smith
2. AND I believe that God himself gave Joseph Smith Apostolic authority to seal on earth and in heaven
3. AND I believe that the Apostolic authority was passed down by correctly performed priesthood ordination as God himself instructed to any man at all that is living today

Then yes, I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
The only way I see to reject that is to not believe 1, 2, or 3.
Because if God said it and we do it he is bound.

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 7:26 pm**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm
tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:07 am For a mortal man to have actual “sealing” power, like Nephi III, what he does has to be binding on God.

Just curious who believes that what the current “PSRs” are doing is binding on God, and why?
The Lord said when we do what he says he is bound. God cannot lie.

Therefore:
1. If I believe that God himself revealed eternal marriage sealings by revelation to Joseph Smith
2. AND I believe that God himself gave Joseph Smith Apostolic authority to seal on earth and in heaven
3. AND I believe that the Apostolic authority was passed down by correctly performed priesthood ordination as God himself instructed to any man at all that is living today

Then yes, I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
The only way I see to reject that is to not believe 1, 2, or 3.
Because if God said it and we do it he is bound.

Yes I can see the logic in this. I guess one question I have is how do we know the sealing power specifically can be passed on from man to man by priesthood ordination?

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 7:51 pm**

fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:26 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm
tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:07 am For a mortal man to have actual “sealing” power, like Nephi III, what he does has to be binding on God.

Just curious who believes that what the current “PSRs” are doing is binding on God, and why?
The Lord said when we do what he says he is bound. God cannot lie.

Therefore:
1. If I believe that God himself revealed eternal marriage sealings by revelation to Joseph Smith
2. AND I believe that God himself gave Joseph Smith Apostolic authority to seal on earth and in heaven
3. AND I believe that the Apostolic authority was passed down by correctly performed priesthood ordination as God himself instructed to any man at all that is living today

Then yes, I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
The only way I see to reject that is to not believe 1, 2, or 3.
Because if God said it and we do it he is bound.
Yes I can see the logic in this. I guess one question I have is how do we know the sealing power specifically can be passed on from man to man by priesthood ordination?

Because scripture says so:

I could of course quote D&C 132 but most here reject that scripture.

D&C 20:2 Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church;
3 And to Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church, and ordained under his hand;

D&C 107:66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

D&C 27:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;

D&C 124:91...that my servant Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right;
92 That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,
93 That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 7:56 pm**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:51 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:26 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm

The Lord said when we do what he says he is bound. God cannot lie.

Therefore:
1. If I believe that God himself revealed eternal marriage sealings by revelation to Joseph Smith
2. AND I believe that God himself gave Joseph Smith Apostolic authority to seal on earth and in heaven
3. AND I believe that the Apostolic authority was passed down by correctly performed priesthood ordination as God himself instructed to any man at all that is living today

Then yes, I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
The only way I see to reject that is to not believe 1, 2, or 3.
Because if God said it and we do it he is bound.
Yes I can see the logic in this. I guess one question I have is how do we know the sealing power specifically can be passed on from man to man by priesthood ordination?
Because scripture says so:

I could of course quote D&C 132 but most here reject that scripture.

D&C 20:2 Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church;
3 And to Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church, and ordained under his hand;

D&C 107:66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

D&C 27:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;

D&C 124:91...that my servant Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right;
92 That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,
93 That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

So am I interpreting those scriptures correctly in that you believe they say that all apostles have the sealing power and also the patriarch of the church?

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 8:13 pm**

fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:56 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:51 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:26 pm

Yes I can see the logic in this. I guess one question I have is how do we know the sealing power specifically can be passed on from man to man by priesthood ordination?
Because scripture says so:

I could of course quote D&C 132 but most here reject that scripture.

D&C 20:2 Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church;
3 And to Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church, and ordained under his hand;

D&C 107:66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

D&C 27:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;

D&C 124:91...that my servant Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right;
92 That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,
93 That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
So am I interpreting those scriptures correctly in that you believe they say that all apostles have the sealing power and also the patriarch of the church?

In Matt 18:18 the Lord gave all the twelve authority to seal:
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

They later called another Apostle to replace Judas. It was three of them gave the Apostleship to Joseph Smith.

I believe every worthy man correctly ordained by someone already in possession of the sealing authority holds the sealing power.
I happen to believe the accounts of the last charge meeting.

I also take Joseph at his word:

“The spirit, power, and calling of Elijah is, that ye have power to hold the key of the revelation, ordinances, oracles, powers and endowments of the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood and of the kingdom of God on the earth; and to receive, obtain, and perform all the ordinances belonging to the kingdom of God, even unto the turning of the hearts of the fathers unto the children, and the hearts of the children unto the fathers, even those who are in heaven” HC 6:251

“This is the spirit of Elijah, that we redeem our dead, and connect ourselves with our fathers which are in heaven, and seal up our dead to come forth in the first resurrection; and here we want the power of Elijah to seal those who dwell on earth to those who dwell in heaven” HC 6:252

“The doctrine or sealing power of Elijah is as follows:—If you have power to seal on earth and in heaven, then we should be wise. The first thing you do, go and seal on earth your sons and daughters unto yourself, and yourself unto your fathers in eternal glory”. TPJS 340

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 8:39 pm**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 8:13 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:56 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:51 pm

Because scripture says so:

I could of course quote D&C 132 but most here reject that scripture.

D&C 20:2 Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church;
3 And to Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church, and ordained under his hand;

D&C 107:66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

D&C 27:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;

D&C 124:91...that my servant Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right;
92 That from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,
93 That whoever he blesses shall be blessed, and whoever he curses shall be cursed; that whatsoever he shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever he shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
So am I interpreting those scriptures correctly in that you believe they say that all apostles have the sealing power and also the patriarch of the church?
In Matt 18:18 the Lord gave all the twelve authority to seal:
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

They later called another Apostle to replace Judas. It was three of them gave the Apostleship to Joseph Smith.

I believe every worthy man correctly ordained by someone already in possession of the sealing authority holds the sealing power.
I happen to believe the accounts of the last charge meeting.

I also take Joseph at his word:

“The spirit, power, and calling of Elijah is, that ye have power to hold the key of the revelation, ordinances, oracles, powers and endowments of the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood and of the kingdom of God on the earth; and to receive, obtain, and perform all the ordinances belonging to the kingdom of God, even unto the turning of the hearts of the fathers unto the children, and the hearts of the children unto the fathers, even those who are in heaven” HC 6:251

“This is the spirit of Elijah, that we redeem our dead, and connect ourselves with our fathers which are in heaven, and seal up our dead to come forth in the first resurrection; and here we want the power of Elijah to seal those who dwell on earth to those who dwell in heaven” HC 6:252

“The doctrine or sealing power of Elijah is as follows:—If you have power to seal on earth and in heaven, then we should be wise. The first thing you do, go and seal on earth your sons and daughters unto yourself, and yourself unto your fathers in eternal glory”. TPJS 340

This is interesting. I could see how this could make sense assuming one believes the keys of Elijah were restored and so on.

What is your view, if I can ask, of past apparent misuses of the sealing power in light of what the Book of Mormon says about it?

For example John W Taylor resigned from the q12 for sealing polygamous marriages after the manifesto. But the book of mormon states only those who will not misuse the power are given it by god I believe.

“Although the church officially forbade new plural marriages with the 1890 Manifesto, Taylor continued to privately marry additional wives. Under pressure, he submitted his resignation from the Quorum of the Twelve on October 28, 1905.[3] Matthias F. Cowley also resigned from the Quorum at the same time over the plural marriage dispute.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Taylor_(Mormon)

Helaman
“ yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.…. Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven”

Also Nephi did not apparently receive this power by the laying on of hands but probably already had some form of priesthood, likely Melchizedek I’d say. What’re your thoughts on this if any?

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 8:59 pm**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm [I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.

What is your definition of “living faithfully”?

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 9:11 pm**

tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 8:59 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm [I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
What is your definition of “living faithfully”?

In the context of temple marriage I would say keeping their covenants and not committing grievous sins.

Scripture also tells us:
D&C 130:20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

Any blessing is always contingent on obedience to the corresponding laws.
If you meet the conditions of the law I believe God is bound to bless you.
If you meet the conditions of the marriage sealing covenant I believe God will make it eternal.

Unless we think God doesn't keep his word.

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 9:15 pm**

Any blessing that we get from any ordinance, is dependent on our faithfulness to the covenants associated with those ordinances.

The Temple ordinances can indeed seal a couple for all eternity, but that depends on the couple's faithfulness, both individually and as one unit, to bring that about.

So it is with the saving ordinances that one receives before the temple ordinances.

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 9:36 pm**

fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 4:59 pm
TheDuke wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 4:57 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 9:53 am

I see. So you believe RMN has sealing power and authority from God but just has never prophesied anything? How did he come upon or receive the sealing power to seal marriages?
Actually I feel he has administrative power for sealing ordinances. I didn’t say “sealing power “

As far as prophecy, not what administration would mean
I see. So, if I may ask, where does the sealing power to perform this ordinance come from then in your mind the Duke?

from Joseph from PJJ from Jesus from Father

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 9:40 pm**

TheDuke wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 9:36 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 4:59 pm
TheDuke wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 4:57 pm

Actually I feel he has administrative power for sealing ordinances. I didn’t say “sealing power “

As far as prophecy, not what administration would mean
I see. So, if I may ask, where does the sealing power to perform this ordinance come from then in your mind the Duke?
from Joseph from PJJ from Jesus from Father

So you believe RMN does have the actual sealing power then, the same that Nephi had in the book of mormon ? Not just administrative oversight?

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.

In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 10:11 pm**

tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?

That's a matter of faith.
But I'll say this - in vs 37 it's God saying Amen, not us. It's his spirit withdrawing.

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 10:47 pm**

Telavian wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 5:01 pm
TheDuke wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 4:57 pm Actually I feel he has administrative power for sealing ordinances. I didn’t say “sealing power “
That sounds meaningless. "Administrative power" for ordinances. Of course he does. He is the leader of an organization that defines ordinances a certain way.
He can make up whatever ordinances he wants and then claim "administrative power" over them.

However, if the ordinance means nothing and has no eternal power then isn't he a major liar to claim anything else?

Not what I meant. I meant administrative authority from the Lord. So, anciently the HP had rights to administer, whether they had power was up to them, like with Eli. They performed the ordinances and administered the daily efforts. What I was trying to say was the PSR's have the Lord's permission or authority to administer the ordinances, not self made and not final sealing power.

This is the way baptism has been seen all along. Someone with authority (commission) performs the baptism ordinance, and later the HG seals it up. Confusion occurs with temple marriages as they are called "sealings" when they are not really such but are celestial marriage ceremonies or ordinances which maybe sealed. Even sealing to children is bad name as it is a linking ordinance that must be sealed by HSoP.

Posted: **December 5th, 2023, 10:50 pm**

tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?

not sure it is possible to bind god? It is possible to enter a covenant which is binding but only if the covenant is of the Lord and by his authority and then all laws are obeyed. So, if you mean "bind god" by entering a valid covenant ok, but to just make one up and think god is bound is silly. IMO

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 6:33 am**

TheDuke wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:50 pm
tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?
not sure it is possible to bind god? It is possible to enter a covenant which is binding but only if the covenant is of the Lord and by his authority and then all laws are obeyed. So, if you mean "bind god" by entering a valid covenant ok, but to just make one up and think god is bound is silly. IMO

God himself said he is bound when we do what he says.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 6:35 am**

JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:11 pm
tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:16 pm I believe that priesthood sealing ordinances performed by those with that authority on those who live faithfully will in fact bind God.
In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?
That's a matter of faith.
But I'll say this - in vs 37 it's God saying Amen, not us. It's his spirit withdrawing.

In my view, that goes without saying.

“37 That [the rights of the priesthood] may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.”

So, besides actual fruits, how would we know who actually still has God’s actual power and authority and who has lost it?

The way Nephi III was able to bind God, and the reason God told him that He would grant (and seal) anything that Nephi asked for, is because God also observed that Nephi would never ask for anything that was contrary to the Lord’s will. Doesn’t that make a difference — to have actual power and authority, and to use it only to do the Lord’s will?

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 7:34 am**

tmac wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 6:35 am
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:11 pm
tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm

In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?
That's a matter of faith.
But I'll say this - in vs 37 it's God saying Amen, not us. It's his spirit withdrawing.
In my view, that goes without saying.

“37 That [the rights of the priesthood] may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.”

So, besides actual fruits, how would we know who actually still has God’s actual power and authority and who has lost it?

The way Nephi III was able to bind God, and the reason God told him that He would grant (and seal) anything that Nephi asked for, is because God also observed that Nephi would never ask for anything that was contrary to the Lord’s will. Doesn’t that make a difference — to have actual power and authority, and to use it to do the Lord’s will?

Of course it makes a difference. Most of us hold priesthood authority but very little power.
But as for declaring amen to a man's authority too many are eager to do it on the Lord's behalf anytime a man does anything they disagree with.
It's not our place to walk around declaring men have lost God's authority. Only God has that right.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 7:57 am**

tmac wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 6:35 am
JLHPROF wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:11 pm
tmac wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 10:01 pm

In light of D&C 121:37, who actually has authority . . . and power?
That's a matter of faith.
But I'll say this - in vs 37 it's God saying Amen, not us. It's his spirit withdrawing.
In my view, that goes without saying.

“37 That [the rights of the priesthood] may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.”

So, besides actual fruits, how would we know who actually still has God’s actual power and authority and who has lost it?

The way Nephi III was able to bind God, and the reason God told him that He would grant (and seal) anything that Nephi asked for, is because God also observed that Nephi would never ask for anything that was contrary to the Lord’s will. Doesn’t that make a difference — to have actual power and authority, and to use it to do the Lord’s will?

As far as the fruits go, the fruits/power of the Melchizedek priesthood are clearly to have open visions of heaven and direct communication/communion with Jesus and God in their presence, and to be part of the church of the Firstborn according to the section JHLPROF cited.

D&C 107
“The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—
19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.”

Yet no one has explained how it’s possible for prior q12 members to have apparently misused or abused their sealing power or why basically no q12 members for a long time have claimed any of the things mentioned in the above scripture let alone talked about them really.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 8:55 am**

At 90 votes

50% of voters believe lds marriage sealings are or probably are invalid

31% they are or probably are valid

19% are undecided or believe ‘other’

This was an appreciable increase in the percentages of those who find the ordinance valid or probably valid from what the percentages were at at 70 votes.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 9:11 am**

Late rally of Brethrenites to the poll?

It is interesting, though, that despite the rally, two to one are still not drinking all the Kool-aid on that issue.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 10:50 am**

fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:56 pm
So am I interpreting those scriptures correctly in that you believe they say that all apostles have the sealing power and also the patriarch of the church?

The office of Patriarch of the Church was eliminated in 2013 when Hyram's descendant died. Christ set up this office in D&C and said that it was to always be there and be filled by one of Hyram's descendants.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 11:13 am**

tmac wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 9:11 am Late rally of Brethrenites to the poll?

It is interesting, though, that despite the rally, two to one are still not drinking all the Kool-aid on that issue.

Late rally of Brethrenites to the poll?

It had crossed my mind.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 11:15 am**

It is my understanding that the sealing power , when effected correctly, seals for as long as time exists. I have no belief that the current admin of the church has the power to do this nor do I believe they can even comprehend it.

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 11:15 am**

HereWeGo wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 10:50 am
fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑December 5th, 2023, 7:56 pm
So am I interpreting those scriptures correctly in that you believe they say that all apostles have the sealing power and also the patriarch of the church?
The office of Patriarch of the Church was eliminated in 2013 when Hyram's descendant died. Christ set up this office in D&C and said that it was to always be there and be filled by one of Hyram's descendants.

Interesting. So do we know what the justification was for eliminating this office? The first I heard of this was from a Denver Snuffer proponent but I never bothered to confirm it.

LDS Freedom Forum

POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?

Re: POLL — Do LDS temple marriages seal a couple for time and all eternity?