LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **November 29th, 2023, 8:14 pm**

The gospel is deeply imbedded in the Bible. It took the restoration to see much of it.
Former Protestant Explains Restored Doctrine of Christ w/the Bible // John Pennington Part 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPT7v-po0Ng

The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture, as explained by the elders, as they had read them hundreds of times. When they read the Bible (this time) it was (now as) a new book to them. This was being born again, to see the Kingdom of God. They were not in it, but could see it from the outside, which they could not do until the Spirit of the Lord took the veil from before their eyes. It was a change of heart but not of state; they were converted, but were yet in their sins. Although Cornelius had seen an holy angel, and on the preaching of Peter the Holy Ghost was poured out upon him and his household, they were only born again to see the Kingdom of God. Had they not been baptized afterwards they would not have been saved (see Acts, 10th chapter). Explaining the 5th verse, he said "To be born of water and of the Spirit" meant to be immersed in water for the remission of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost thereafter. This was given by the laying on of the hands of one having authority given him of God. "Recollections of the Prophet Joseph Smith," The Juvenile Instructor 27 (1892)

Posted: **November 30th, 2023, 12:51 pm**

Here is a prime example of not grasping much of the Bible as spoken above, without understanding the fully restored gospel in the latter days.

The following was written be the same Apostle, Paul. These verses seem to contradict each other, yet we know they don't.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12

We need to be ever so grateful that we live when we do, even though it is a time of great tribulation and danger, it is a time of great knowledge.

Posted: **November 30th, 2023, 2:47 pm**

When lds Elders today lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?

"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

This grace occurs amongst the people called the Christians ........Joels prophecy confirms this, that it would occur in the last days, it began on the day of Pentecost and has continued to our times amongst the Christian peoples. It is the sign of a Living Faith.

Posted: **November 30th, 2023, 6:31 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑November 30th, 2023, 2:47 pm When lds Elders today lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?

"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

This grace occurs amongst the people called the Christians ........Joels prophecy confirms this, that it would occur in the last days, it began on the day of Pentecost and has continued to our times amongst the Christian peoples. It is the sign of a Living Faith.

Thanks for asking, here is your evidence and answer from acts chapter 8. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Posted: **December 1st, 2023, 9:31 am**

I am well aware as a bible believing Christian of Acts 8.14, one that all Born Again Christians rejoice in.
However my brother you have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders today lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"

Posted: **December 1st, 2023, 9:47 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 1st, 2023, 9:31 am I am well aware as a bible believing Christian of Acts 8.14, one that all Born Again Christians rejoice in.
However my brother you have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders today lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"

Last night, I participated in an LDS ordinance of conferring the Holy Ghost with my two little nine year old nephews. While there were no 'signs' we could observe, I will say that my heart/chest burned strongly while this ordinance was performed and also that I have full faith these two young children of God will grow into their understanding of what happened last night. I could certainly tell what happened and I'll be excited to recount it and share it with them over these next few formative years of their lives as they age and grow.

Posted: **December 1st, 2023, 4:39 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 1st, 2023, 9:31 am I am well aware as a bible believing Christian of Acts 8.14, one that all Born Again Christians rejoice in.
However my brother you have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders today lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"

You asked for New Testament evidence, If you won't accept "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost", knowing how the H.G. was given in the same way, with the same ancient priesthood restored, what do you want, photographs of modern day church members with signed notarized statements from the original Apostles stating that these modern saints were having the same spiritual experience? As one who has experienced this, speaking to you who have felt the Holy Ghost but not been given it as the ancient church members were, what more would you like here?

You and I have talked quite a few times about modern day church members receiving miraculous experiences. Yes wonderful experiences such as healing or answers to prayers can happen to true believers world wide and sometimes do. To me this is ground we have been over before, but if you wish, I will tell you of a Pentecost type of experience given at the dedication of the Kirtland Temple, a place I have been in a number of times, and a temple which was built at much sacrifice by humble faithful Christians because of a commandment given by the Lord.

Posted: **December 1st, 2023, 6:07 pm**

My brother you still have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders "TODAY" lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"
I am well aware of the Kirkland Temple, I would say if such occured then, is it occuring in your Chapels and temples "TODAY"
Is that mighty outpouring of Gods Spirit occuring "TODAY" in said places, the great manifestations of power, glory and utter joy that causes one to arise and praise God in Tongues and to prophesy.

It is "TODAY" that I query about..........

Posted: **December 1st, 2023, 6:30 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 1st, 2023, 6:07 pm My brother you still have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders "TODAY" lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"
I am well aware of the Kirkland Temple, I would say if such occured then, is it occuring in your Chapels and temples "TODAY"
Is that mighty outpouring of Gods Spirit occuring "TODAY" in said places, the great manifestations of power, glory and utter joy that causes one to arise and praise God in Tongues and to prophesy.

It is "TODAY" that I query about..........

Did you read Cruiserdude"s post? Yes there is. And furthermore I promise you I feel the Holy Spirt every day, I testify to you that that is true. I know what it feels like, love and intelligence is communicated, impressions are given even when I fall short on some things. I know if I turned my back on the Lord this would soon to a large degree stop. I have a parting thought as well. Satan cannot counterfeit the feeling and influence of the Holy Ghost. He may be able to do other things in an effort to confuse us, but he does not and never will have the power to do that. I have no doubt that you have felt the influence of the Holy Ghost. All who are sincere in any age, who begin to learn about the Lord and exercise true faith in him will be rewarded with some influence of the spirit.

I have also seen some absolute miracles as well and testify of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Now one last thing, here is a witness of the subject which you are asking about. This happened imminently after baptism in this case.

Joseph Smith1::73 Immediately on our coming up out of the water after we had been baptized, we experienced great and glorious blessings from our Heavenly Father. No sooner had I baptized Oliver Cowdery, than the Holy Ghost fell upon him, and he stood up and prophesied many things which should shortly come to pass. And again, so soon as I had been baptized by him, I also had the spirit of prophecy, when, standing up, I prophesied concerning the rise of this Church, and many other things connected with the Church, and this generation of the children of men. We were filled with the Holy Ghost, and rejoiced in the God of our salvation.

74 Our minds being now enlightened, we began to have the scriptures laid open to our understandings, and the true meaning and intention of their more mysterious passages revealed unto us in a manner which we never could attain to previously, nor ever before had thought of.

I have experienced this kind of experience many times, and thankfully and openly testify of it.

Posted: **December 2nd, 2023, 11:45 am**

My brother you still have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders "TODAY" lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"
Is that dramatic life changing outpouring of the Holy Ghost as evidenced in the New testament occuring in your Baptism services "TODAY"
The wonderous joyous spontaneous speaking in tongues and prophesing?
Have you been to any LDS baptism and witnessed these New testament outpourings of the Spirit when the convert has had hands laid apon their heads by your Elders to recieve the Holy Spirit?.

Posted: **December 2nd, 2023, 6:05 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 2nd, 2023, 11:45 am My brother you still have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders "TODAY" lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"
Is that dramatic life changing outpouring of the Holy Ghost as evidenced in the New testament occuring in your Baptism services "TODAY"
The wonderous joyous spontaneous speaking in tongues and prophesing?
Have you been to any LDS baptism and witnessed these New testament outpourings of the Spirit when the convert has had hands laid apon their heads by your Elders to recieve the Holy Spirit?.

yes.

Posted: **December 2nd, 2023, 6:19 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 2nd, 2023, 11:45 am My brother you still have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders "TODAY" lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"
Is that dramatic life changing outpouring of the Holy Ghost as evidenced in the New testament occuring in your Baptism services "TODAY"
The wonderous joyous spontaneous speaking in tongues and prophesing?
Have you been to any LDS baptism and witnessed these New testament outpourings of the Spirit when the convert has had hands laid apon their heads by your Elders to recieve the Holy Spirit?.

Yes, yes, and yes. By the way, as far as speaking in tongues goes, the kind where someone has a message in an unknown tongue for those present, must have a second witness who has the interpretation given, and intelligence communicated, and if doing what the Lord wants, should then give that interpretation to those present, otherwise this is not a true message from the Lord. I have heard a fake message proclaimed by a Cleveland minister, and he knew it. In addition, Satan and his "angels" who were cast out of heaven for disobedience can counterfeit this and every other gift of the spirit you can name, except the influence of the Holy Ghost.

These spirits also cannot read your or my minds. They can by watching us have a good idea of what we are thinking. These spirits can be cast out of a possessed person if someone present knows what to do and it helps much to be worthy of this kind of spiritual power. Some of these spirits are more determined than others. They hate praying, and they must respect the name of the Lord.

I will be glad to have a conversation with you on any issue, but there are a few super special experiences I and others have had that I feel should remain private. Therefore don't expect me to say all I know. Now I hope this finally answers your question. In addition, I have posted probably 25 or so latter day saint speaking in tongues events with the interpretation of each one on this forum. They were needed, they were important and sobering, and they were powerful.

I personally know at least one who was a neighbor of mine while he was serving a mission in Holland. My own daughter while serving a mission to the Philippines was attacked by a malevolent spirit who was even able to scratch her across the back while she was awake and in her own apartment among other related events in that area. I have seen many true gifts of the spirit manifested, including a number gift of tongues events where the person needing to hear a certain thing was told the very thing they needed at that exact time and both knew the Lord had directed the very words spoken. The times I have seen this happen is almost countless. Lastly, as far as the gift of tongues go, there is another form, where one person can speak in a language they don't understand, but the hearer does. I have some related stories, but we will save them for another time.

Posted: **December 3rd, 2023, 9:06 am**

Can you give me one instance were you have personally witnessed in any of your LDS baptism services were a new convert had hands laid apon them after their baptism by your LDS Elders to recieve the Holy Ghost, that apon the LDS Elders saying "Amen"over their heads, that said convert was immediatly filled with the Holy Ghost and such was the joy, glory and power that filled their entire being that they arose immediatly from their seat and began to praise God in the Gift of Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance like unto same manner that occured when the Ancient Apostles laid their hands apon their new converts?

Posted: **December 3rd, 2023, 9:08 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:06 am Can you give me one instance were you have personally witnessed in any of your LDS baptism services were a new convert had hands laid apon them after their baptism by your LDS Elders to recieve the Holy Ghost, that apon the LDS Elders saying "Amen"over their heads, that said convert was immediatly filled with the Holy Ghost and such was the joy, glory and power that filled their entire being that they arose immediatly from their seat and began to praise God in the Gift of Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance like unto same manner that occured when the Ancient Apostles laid their hands apon their new converts?

No. I know someone who did experience that. But it was in the mid-1960s.

Posted: **December 3rd, 2023, 9:36 am**

Luke wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:08 am
TheChristian wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:06 am Can you give me one instance were you have personally witnessed in any of your LDS baptism services were a new convert had hands laid apon them after their baptism by your LDS Elders to recieve the Holy Ghost, that apon the LDS Elders saying "Amen"over their heads, that said convert was immediatly filled with the Holy Ghost and such was the joy, glory and power that filled their entire being that they arose immediatly from their seat and began to praise God in the Gift of Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance like unto same manner that occured when the Ancient Apostles laid their hands apon their new converts?
No. I know someone who did experience that. But it was in the mid-1960s.

God bless you my brother Luke for your sincerity and honesty,.........
A honest man could only respond as you have, for such does not occur in any lds baptism service today, nor is said Gift of Tongues to be evidenced in any of their chapel meetings or gatherings today..........
The last time it was manifest in a LDS chapel in Great Britain that I am aware of was a fast and testimony meeting in the 1990s. The man was cast out and banned from entering any lds church in mainland uk.
As a matter of interest to you, my brother attended the lds church in the Bristol area in the 1990s, there was in his ward "Polygamists" at that time. I think he told me that after a while they were told not to attend any of the LDS services anymore by the lds leaders.

Posted: **December 3rd, 2023, 11:11 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:36 am
Luke wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:08 am
TheChristian wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:06 am Can you give me one instance were you have personally witnessed in any of your LDS baptism services were a new convert had hands laid apon them after their baptism by your LDS Elders to recieve the Holy Ghost, that apon the LDS Elders saying "Amen"over their heads, that said convert was immediatly filled with the Holy Ghost and such was the joy, glory and power that filled their entire being that they arose immediatly from their seat and began to praise God in the Gift of Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance like unto same manner that occured when the Ancient Apostles laid their hands apon their new converts?
No. I know someone who did experience that. But it was in the mid-1960s.

God bless you my brother Luke for your sincerity and honesty,.........
A honest man could only respond as you have, for such does not occur in any lds baptism service today, nor is said Gift of Tongues to be evidenced in any of their chapel meetings or gatherings today..........
The last time it was manifest in a LDS chapel in Great Britain that I am aware of was a fast and testimony meeting in the 1990s. The man was cast out and banned from entering any lds church in mainland uk.
As a matter of interest to you, my brother attended the lds church in the Bristol area in the 1990s, there was in his ward "Polygamists" at that time. I think he told me that after a while they were told not to attend any of the LDS services anymore by the lds leaders.

That's interesting. So, a man spoke in tongues during testimony meeting and was asked not to return. I wonder why? Were they freaked out just by that, or were there are things that happened.

We would sometimes have to cast devils out of people on my mission in Brazil, and they would come to Church still. I think of the Savior telling us not to cast out people, even after being excommunicated, in 3 Nephi. I wonder why we violate that commandment?

It's clear that we no longer see the signs that the Lord said would follow the saints, but we used to see them. This, of course, is a tragedy.

Posted: **December 3rd, 2023, 1:25 pm**

A certain Christian had a vision of the night many, many years ago ...........

He was with his younger brother, whom had served a full time LDS mission, they were walking up to a huge building like unto a church surrounded in darkness, its top could not be seen for it arose high into the heavens.They entered said church and it was filled with cliques of both men and women ever so finely dressed, they all had very long stiff necks.
The two brothers were dressed in the clothes of manual labourers, they were ignored by the vast congregation of long stiff necked cliques whom gossiped amongst themselves. And so the two brothers sat down by themselves all alone in the very front pew.
Suddenly another finely dressed man appeared in front of the two brothers, he then turned around and faced them. He was the leader of that congregation. The christian recognised him immediatly, it was satan.........
satan exclaimed "Hello Christian, we meet again! So you think you are going to bring the gifts of the Holy Ghost here are you? Oh, no you are not!"
Satan then began to laugh and mock the two brothers. The younger brother became afraid, so Christian told him not to fear.
satan then began to rage so publicly against them and he was joined by the long stiff necked cliques, all mocking, reviling, raging and screaming and so the Christian and his brother quietly arose and walked out of said huge building, leaving it behind them, as they left and went apon the path outside said huge building the rage and fury of the devil and his congregation became a thunderous din.............End.

Are the New testament Gifts of the Holy Ghost occuring in your meetings and conferances? The evidence of a true Apostle said Paul was that signs, wonders and miracles attended their public ministeries.
Is that joyfull heartfelt praise of praising God in tongues and the interpretation thereof, the spirit of prophecy The word of knowlegde, the healing of the sick, the fervent burning vibrant testimonies of Jesus as evidenced in the bible occuring in your gatherings?
Has Spirituality been replaced with Respectability? have the gifts of the Holy Ghost been replaced with the honors, prestiges, university educations, wealth and favors of this world? Leaving thus a form of Godlyness but denying the power thereof?

Posted: **December 4th, 2023, 2:24 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 1:25 pm A certain Christian had a vision of the night many, many years ago ...........

He was with his younger brother, whom had served a full time LDS mission, they were walking up to a huge building like unto a church surrounded in darkness, its top could not be seen for it arose high into the heavens.They entered said church and it was filled with cliques of both men and women ever so finely dressed, they all had very long stiff necks.
The two brothers were dressed in the clothes of manual labourers, they were ignored by the vast congregation of long stiff necked cliques whom gossiped amongst themselves. And so the two brothers sat down by themselves all alone in the very front pew.
Suddenly another finely dressed man appeared in front of the two brothers, he then turned around and faced them. He was the leader of that congregation. The christian recognised him immediatly, it was satan.........
satan exclaimed "Hello Christian, we meet again! So you think you are going to bring the gifts of the Holy Ghost here are you? Oh, no you are not!"
Satan then began to laugh and mock the two brothers. The younger brother became afraid, so Christian told him not to fear.
satan then began to rage so publicly against them and he was joined by the long stiff necked cliques, all mocking, reviling, raging and screaming and so the Christian and his brother quietly arose and walked out of said huge building, leaving it behind them, as they left and went apon the path outside said huge building the rage and fury of the devil and his congregation became a thunderous din.............End.

Are the New testament Gifts of the Holy Ghost occuring in your meetings and conferances? The evidence of a true Apostle said Paul was that signs, wonders and miracles attended their public ministeries.
Is that joyfull heartfelt praise of praising God in tongues and the interpretation thereof, the spirit of prophecy The word of knowlegde, the healing of the sick, the fervent burning vibrant testimonies of Jesus as evidenced in the bible occuring in your gatherings?
Has Spirituality been replaced with Respectability? have the gifts of the Holy Ghost been replaced with the honors, prestiges, university educations, wealth and favors of this world? Leaving thus a form of Godlyness but denying the power thereof?

Do I really need to tell you that I myself have been healed in a miraculous way two different times to finally get you to calm down about gifts of the spirit in the modern day church. Yes, they were miracles, one from the time of the exact blessing I rose from my chair and was imminently healed by the Lord. It was a very serious health problem which happened continually and from that second on never returned. They were years apart, and on two completely different issues. DOES THIS FINALY CALM YOU ON THIS ISSUE!!!!!!! I was there, I saw these things happen, I have seen many, many times, gifts of the spirit in the church. I will not even tell you of some events I have seen, now calm your butt down on this, I don't know how many direct posts I need to do on this subject to get you to quit badgering and pestering me and us.

Little eight year olds who have reached the age of accountability to begin to understand the baptismal covenants they are making with the Lord do not need to speak in tongues to confirm anything. They do need to feel the presence of the Holy Ghost with a comforting feeling of a burning of the heart to let them know they are on the right spiritual path. I remember those same feelings at about that age, I could feel what was being told to me was true.

The Lord does not hand out miracles like candy, but he will give them out from time to time to bless and confirm the faithful. If you have some issue understanding the world around you, take it to the Lord. Sometimes an answer may come after fasting and praying many days, Sometimes it may be delayed further than that, but spiritual gifts take effort. Especially to the spiritually mature. The Lord may quickly answer a child's simple prayer but he may make you and I put out more of an effort as he did to many in the scriptures including Jobe.

Posted: **December 4th, 2023, 2:59 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 3rd, 2023, 9:06 am Can you give me one instance were you have personally witnessed in any of your LDS baptism services were a new convert had hands laid apon them after their baptism by your LDS Elders to recieve the Holy Ghost, that apon the LDS Elders saying "Amen"over their heads, that said convert was immediatly filled with the Holy Ghost and such was the joy, glory and power that filled their entire being that they arose immediatly from their seat and began to praise God in the Gift of Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance like unto same manner that occured when the Ancient Apostles laid their hands apon their new converts?

How many of those new converts do you think had that experience? Five percent? Ten? One Hundred percent? You don't claim to know do you? Neither do I, and that does not bother me. I see gifts of the spirit manifested among the saints. In the early days of the restoration, many of our church members were told by ministers and others that the New Testament gifts of the spirit were no longer manifest on the earth.

Posted: **December 4th, 2023, 3:23 am**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 2nd, 2023, 11:45 am My brother you still have not answered my query.....

"When lds Elders "TODAY" lay their hands apon their converts after baptism, is there any New Testament evidences of the Holy Ghost falling apon the converts at the time of hands being laid apon them?"
Is that dramatic life changing outpouring of the Holy Ghost as evidenced in the New testament occuring in your Baptism services "TODAY"
The wonderous joyous spontaneous speaking in tongues and prophesing?
Have you been to any LDS baptism and witnessed these New testament outpourings of the Spirit when the convert has had hands laid apon their heads by your Elders to recieve the Holy Spirit?.

When it happens there better be someone there to interpret or there better be an Immedient transfer of intelligence to the congregation or it is a false sign. If I was told that the spirit would bring about wild rolling in the isles, dancing, jumping, and speaking in unknown tongues without any need to understand the "message" and I didn't know any better, I might at first think I was witnessing something interesting. However, the spirit of the Lord works on people in more refined way than all that. You like joy expressed, I have never been to a baptism or a testimony or sacrament meeting where I did not see multiple people sheading humble and grateful tears of joy and gratitude.

Posted: **December 4th, 2023, 8:53 am**

Have you ever been to a LDS Baptism service were your LDS Elders apon laying their hands apon the newly baptised convert and witnessed that dynamic New Testament power of Gods Spirit in action, were immediatly apon your Elders saying "Amen" over the head of their baptised convert, that the convert was filled instantly with the Holy Ghost like unto the day of Pentecost or like unto Cornelius and his household and began to speak in Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance?

Posted: **December 4th, 2023, 1:20 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 4th, 2023, 8:53 am Have you ever been to a LDS Baptism service were your LDS Elders apon laying their hands apon the newly baptised convert and witnessed that dynamic New Testament power of Gods Spirit in action, were immediatly apon your Elders saying "Amen" over the head of their baptised convert, that the convert was filled instantly with the Holy Ghost like unto the day of Pentecost or like unto Cornelius and his household and began to speak in Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance?

You are bound and determined to ignore every spiritual gift I have told you about in an effort to get me to say on one narrow issue because you think on that narrow issue I have not seen the gift of the spirit manifest in that narrow particular way among hundreds of other similar examples, that you may say we are lacking something you will claim to have seen or was had anciently.

Therefore, I will answer your question directly if you will answer mine directly. Have you ever seen the Lord in this life or been in a room where he has personally visited. Not a vision, not an impression or spiritually felt his influence, have you done what I asked and ever had one of these two experiences?

Posted: **December 4th, 2023, 2:37 pm**

I asked you a sincere question that every man and woman "Born of the Spirit" would answer with great joy ...........

The recieving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....
"And the Holy Ghost fell apon them and they were filled with power and they began to speak in Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance"
Sadly it is not occuring in your lds baptism services today and you ought to contemplate why these manifestations are not occuring in them when your newly baptised converts have hands laid apon their heads.
And yet amongst those called the "Christians" this Gift is to be evidenced amongst men and women whoms only wealth is their Faith...........

Posted: **December 6th, 2023, 8:22 pm**

TheChristian wrote: ↑December 4th, 2023, 2:37 pm I asked you a sincere question that every man and woman "Born of the Spirit" would answer with great joy ...........

The recieving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....
"And the Holy Ghost fell apon them and they were filled with power and they began to speak in Tongues and prophesy as the Spirit gave them utterance"
Sadly it is not occuring in your lds baptism services today and you ought to contemplate why these manifestations are not occuring in them when your newly baptised converts have hands laid apon their heads.
And yet amongst those called the "Christians" this Gift is to be evidenced amongst men and women whoms only wealth is their Faith...........

TheChristian, I have had a personal visit from someone you and I worship, don't talk to me about something much less important and claim we don't have personal spiritual gifts of spiritual experiences. And no, I will not go into detail or tell you more. I say to you, your faith in Jesus Christ is not misplaced, and you might want to accept the full gospel, not just a large part of it. I have debated for days about telling you this, I assure you my witness is as sure as your beating heart. It was not a dream, it was not at night , it was not a vision. I hope that is very plain to you. May God bless you.

Posted: **December 7th, 2023, 10:07 am**

Those that evade a sincere query, and with great guile seek to silence the Christian,

If any man can profit from the following, so be it......

"Some have never seen Me, nor have they ever known me,
Preaching for doctrines the teachings of men and devils mingled with My Word,
Whom shall lift up their voice concerning Me and tell of My Glory?
It is not the wise in their own sight or the boastfull,
Nor shall it be the wealthy and learned or those that sit in the favoured seats of churchs,
It shall be those that the world rejects that I will choose,
The poor and the unlearned whoms only wealth is their faith in Me.
So it was in the beginning so shall it be at the end of days." Amen.....

I give to whomsoever I please the blessings of My Heaven,
For they are Mine to give alone,
No man, nor set of men have a monopoly over My blessings,
They are given without measure and without price from My own hands to both those that seek them and even unto those whom do not,
And were ever there is Faith in My name I am to be found amongst those that possess it,
As it was when I walked amongst men, so shall it be in these last of days,
And behold these are they that are of my true fold they that love Me and love their fellow men and show unto them the very same mercy that I have shown unto them. Amen.

"Jesus of Nazerath is Lord"

LDS Freedom Forum

The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration

Re: The people wondered why they had not previously understood the plain declarations of scripture - The Restoration