Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
fractal_light_harvest
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Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

I don’t want to beat this topic to death but this thread is a test attempt at as a sort of forum based focus group. The poll I asked about LDS involvement in secret combinations was the most voted poll question so far.

If anyone is interested, please explain further *why* and *how* you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved or why you’re not sure or undecided. I’ll take responses from the previous thread into account too.

Please feel free to discuss whatever your rational is. My objective is to categorize the lines of thinking not support one or the other necessarily. But since there was more support for pro-secret combination I am going to want to delve into that without ignoring the other views.

The main arguments I’m aware of right now are involvement with UN agendas are seen as a sort of secret combination and the obfuscation of tithing funds. If you have other theories or want to add/flesh those out, or voice which view you believe is accurate, please feel free. We’ll see if this is feasible/worthwhile or if people already chimed in enough on the poll thread. I assume the argument against is an ‘innocent until proven guilty’ mindset?

Atrasado
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by Atrasado »

Besides the top leaders' obvious alignment with Babylon? Isaiah 28 and 29, for one. The drunkards of Ephraim made an agreement with death and hell.
And it's funny that President Nelson should belong to the Brotherhood of Death and would be leading the Church right now during Covid-19. They scheme to hide what they do from Jehovah, and work in the dark. Gordon Bowen's connections to multiple members of the Quorum of the Twelve is suspicious as well.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by Seed Starter »

Atrasado wrote: November 24th, 2023, 4:26 pm Besides the top leaders' obvious alignment with Babylon? Isaiah 28 and 29, for one. The drunkards of Ephraim made an agreement with death and hell.
And it's funny that President Nelson should belong to the Brotherhood of Death and would be leading the Church right now during Covid-19. They scheme to hide what they do from Jehovah, and work in the dark. Gordon Bowen's connections to multiple members of the Quorum of the Twelve is suspicious as well.
At the very least I would think Nelson would make a statement disavowing his membership in S&B. I would guess the calculus there is saying anything will alert the majority to this information so it's better to let a few people online think he's dirty than bring it out into the light for the entire church to see. It would be great if some news outlet made a big thing about it so he would be forced to comment on it. What a great teaching opportunity he's missing out on. Say it is evil and tell the youth of today how the atonement helped your younger self overcome it. Tell them how they need to awaken to secret combinations all around us. Testify about the truth found in the BOM.

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

Atrasado wrote: November 24th, 2023, 4:26 pm Besides the top leaders' obvious alignment with Babylon? Isaiah 28 and 29, for one. The drunkards of Ephraim made an agreement with death and hell.
And it's funny that President Nelson should belong to the Brotherhood of Death and would be leading the Church right now during Covid-19. They scheme to hide what they do from Jehovah, and work in the dark. Gordon Bowen's connections to multiple members of the Quorum of the Twelve is suspicious as well.
In what ways do you see them aligned with Babylon? Their UN association? Sustainable development goals? Other things?
I’ve seen references to Isa 28/29. You take Drunkards of Ephraim to mean they are fake prophets I believe?
Can you specifically elaborate on what you mean by brotherhood of death and who is Gordon Bowen? He’s associated with LDS top leadership?

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

Seed Starter wrote: November 24th, 2023, 5:16 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 24th, 2023, 4:26 pm Besides the top leaders' obvious alignment with Babylon? Isaiah 28 and 29, for one. The drunkards of Ephraim made an agreement with death and hell.
And it's funny that President Nelson should belong to the Brotherhood of Death and would be leading the Church right now during Covid-19. They scheme to hide what they do from Jehovah, and work in the dark. Gordon Bowen's connections to multiple members of the Quorum of the Twelve is suspicious as well.
At the very least I would think Nelson would make a statement disavowing his membership in S&B. I would guess the calculus there is saying anything will alert the majority to this information so it's better to let a few people online think he's dirty than bring it out into the light for the entire church to see. It would be great if some news outlet made a big thing about it so he would be forced to comment on it. What a great teaching opportunity he's missing out on. Say it is evil and tell the youth of today how the atonement helped your younger self overcome it. Tell them how they need to awaken to secret combinations all around us. Testify about the truth found in the BOM.
Membership in S&B? What’s S&B?

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HereWeGo
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by HereWeGo »

fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 24th, 2023, 5:21 pm
Membership in S&B? What’s S&B?
Skull & Bones -- a secret society with blood oaths to be loyal to the society. It is my understanding that there are public records showing another of the 15 is also a member (Holland, I believe).

A Disciple
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by A Disciple »

How does the profession of Nehor compare to the secret order of the Gadiantons? The former progresses to the latter, but both are threats to Truth and Liberty. The Priestcraft and Anti-Christ philosophies - the profession of Nehor - are evident in the operation of the church. Is a "secret combination" needed to keep leadership in line with this Priestcraft? Or does the Priestcraft persist because it is the easy path for church officials to follow?

Consider king Noah. Was his order sustained by secret combinations or by the simple bribery of his priests that if you played nice everyone would live well and no one would get hurt?

The first secret combination we read of in the Book of Mormon was actually Amalackiah who used murder to become king of the Lamanites, and to exploit the Lamanites to go to war against the Nephites. Amalickiah was of the profession of Nehor and he turned to murder / secret combinations when his political artifice among the Nephites failed.

The Gadiantons embraced secret combinations as a means to gain control of the government of the people. The Nephites at various times either supported this corruption or fought against it. Ultimately, they were consumed by it.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

HereWeGo wrote: November 24th, 2023, 7:04 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 24th, 2023, 5:21 pm
Membership in S&B? What’s S&B?
Skull & Bones -- a secret society with blood oaths to be loyal to the society. It is my understanding that there are public records showing another of the 15 is also a member (Holland, I believe).
Oh wow I think I did read that on another site but saw no proof of it. At least two members of current Q15 are S&B then? Plus it’s the president of the Q12 and President of the whole church?! Do you believe their oaths to these secret orgs override their oaths made in the temple?

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

A Disciple wrote: November 24th, 2023, 7:35 pm How does the profession of Nehor compare to the secret order of the Gadiantons? The former progresses to the latter, but both are threats to Truth and Liberty. The Priestcraft and Anti-Christ philosophies - the profession of Nehor - are evident in the operation of the church. Is a "secret combination" needed to keep leadership in line with this Priestcraft? Or does the Priestcraft persist because it is the easy path for church officials to follow?

Consider king Noah. Was his order sustained by secret combinations or by the simple bribery of his priests that if you played nice everyone would live well and no one would get hurt?

The first secret combination we read of in the Book of Mormon was actually Amalackiah who used murder to become king of the Lamanites, and to exploit the Lamanites to go to war against the Nephites. Amalickiah was of the profession of Nehor and he turned to murder / secret combinations when his political artifice among the Nephites failed.

The Gadiantons embraced secret combinations as a means to gain control of the government of the people. The Nephites at various times either supported this corruption or fought against it. Ultimately, they were consumed by it.
You believe something analogous is maybe happening among the lds?

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by Seed Starter »

fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 24th, 2023, 7:57 pm
HereWeGo wrote: November 24th, 2023, 7:04 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 24th, 2023, 5:21 pm
Membership in S&B? What’s S&B?
Skull & Bones -- a secret society with blood oaths to be loyal to the society. It is my understanding that there are public records showing another of the 15 is also a member (Holland, I believe).
Oh wow I think I did read that on another site but saw no proof of it. At least two members of current Q15 are S&B then? Plus it’s the president of the Q12 and President of the whole church?! Do you believe their oaths to these secret orgs override their oaths made in the temple?
Here is the apologist explanation:
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... college.3F

"One individual described the group as ‘one big happy family’ comprised of ‘light and fun interaction." :lol: :lol: YA OK...

Nelson writes about his membership on page 48 of his autobiography here:
https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... 1/mode/2up

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by Niemand »

Very simple, the phrase "LDS church" means a variety of things. One of these is the general membership, who clearly is not in on any such thing. Secondly you have the leadership, and when we discuss the leadership, it depends which level. Like most globalism this is a trickle down process and many people lower down pass on their orders without knowing what they are.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by A Disciple »

You believe something analogous is maybe happening among the lds?

LDS leadership culture is wholly corrupted with groupthink - don't rock the boat, praise, please & suck up to superiors, etc. Keeping the peace on the good ship Zion is priority #1. Even if the ship is sailing into a cyclone leaders and members should support and praise the captain.

This is exactly what happened with king Noah. Noah aspired to do great things for his people and he succeeded. But he wanted all the praise and he certainly did not want any critics. A key element of the king Noah story is Noah was persuaded by Abinadi. But the priests held sway and they pressured Noah to execute Abinadi.

Most Western institutions are of the sort exemplified by Noah and his priests. We see organizations do crazy, self-destructive things and we assume the president is at fault. This can be the case. But often it is the president clinging to his job by going along with what the "board" wants, or what the high-level staff wants. Institutions are failing because the high-level officers are controlling the "president" and the president is too weak-minded to push back.

In the LDS church we see RMN as the leader and no doubt he is flexing his position. What we don't see are the internal factions. What is kept hidden from the membership is to what extent there is disagreement and the nature of that disagreement. And note that the leadership claims that is a good thing! No, it is a deceptive thing. By hiding disagreement the membership has no idea who stands for what. We only see RMN claim credit when decisions are made public and we are let to assume he is the one in charge.

A thing to consider about this leadership dynamic is it allows string pullers to avoid accountability when things go awry. The "president" takes the fall and when the next in line takes over there is a make believe moment that the new person is different. But we continually see in western institutions that the new leader is just like the old leader. That would be the case if the leader is subservient to the string pullers.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

Seed Starter wrote: November 24th, 2023, 8:58 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 24th, 2023, 7:57 pm
HereWeGo wrote: November 24th, 2023, 7:04 pm

Skull & Bones -- a secret society with blood oaths to be loyal to the society. It is my understanding that there are public records showing another of the 15 is also a member (Holland, I believe).
Oh wow I think I did read that on another site but saw no proof of it. At least two members of current Q15 are S&B then? Plus it’s the president of the Q12 and President of the whole church?! Do you believe their oaths to these secret orgs override their oaths made in the temple?
Here is the apologist explanation:
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... college.3F

"One individual described the group as ‘one big happy family’ comprised of ‘light and fun interaction." :lol: :lol: YA OK...

Nelson writes about his membership on page 48 of his autobiography here:
https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... 1/mode/2up
Hmmm….that is honestly pretty weird. And even FAIR admits RMN joined S&B. Wow I’m not really sure what to say. FAIRs explanation was really odd to me. They just sort of sideways acknowledged it and moved on. This is pretty fascinating/strange

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

A Disciple wrote: November 25th, 2023, 5:59 am You believe something analogous is maybe happening among the lds?

LDS leadership culture is wholly corrupted with groupthink - don't rock the boat, praise, please & suck up to superiors, etc. Keeping the peace on the good ship Zion is priority #1. Even if the ship is sailing into a cyclone leaders and members should support and praise the captain.

This is exactly what happened with king Noah. Noah aspired to do great things for his people and he succeeded. But he wanted all the praise and he certainly did not want any critics. A key element of the king Noah story is Noah was persuaded by Abinadi. But the priests held sway and they pressured Noah to execute Abinadi.

Most Western institutions are of the sort exemplified by Noah and his priests. We see organizations do crazy, self-destructive things and we assume the president is at fault. This can be the case. But often it is the president clinging to his job by going along with what the "board" wants, or what the high-level staff wants. Institutions are failing because the high-level officers are controlling the "president" and the president is too weak-minded to push back.

In the LDS church we see RMN as the leader and no doubt he is flexing his position. What we don't see are the internal factions. What is kept hidden from the membership is to what extent there is disagreement and the nature of that disagreement. And note that the leadership claims that is a good thing! No, it is a deceptive thing. By hiding disagreement the membership has no idea who stands for what. We only see RMN claim credit when decisions are made public and we are let to assume he is the one in charge.

A thing to consider about this leadership dynamic is it allows string pullers to avoid accountability when things go awry. The "president" takes the fall and when the next in line takes over there is a make believe moment that the new person is different. But we continually see in western institutions that the new leader is just like the old leader. That would be the case if the leader is subservient to the string pullers.
So you are thinking there could be string pullers influencing RMNs actions??

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by A Disciple »

I believe the lawyers and accountants have considerable influence on church policy. And there is a PR group that has a lot of say on managing the corporate message. The LDS church has become a well oiled machine.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by tmac »

It is interesting that this particular issue would generate such large and lopsided response in the poll, and both surprising and disappointing that so few seem to be willing to discuss it.

I suspect that it is largely one of those gut feeling sorts of things, based primarily on circumstantial evidence (like the JFK assassination, 911, and a whole bunch of other things), possibly without necessarily a foolproof smoking gun, per se.

Since it’s something I am interested in, and today is shaping up to be a pretty quiet “snow day” for me, I’ll take a stab at outlining some of my thoughts and connecting a few dots on the subject.

Without citing specific scriptural references (anyone who wants to find them can), I’m going to start my personal outline with some basic, fundamental premises, the first of which is essentially God’s mission statement: For this is My work and My glory, to bring to pass the the immortality and eternal life (exaltation) of man. According to my understanding of His plan and approach, the most fundamental element in the whole equation is Agency, Choice, and/or Free Will, otherwise known as Freedom and/or Liberty.

To assist in that physical and spiritual process/journey, He has given (from the outset) four very basic, fundamental commandments, that can essentially be used both as tools for accomplishing God’s objective(s), as well as Measuring Sticks, for evaluation: 1) work and produce; 2) multiply and reproduce; 3) love and worship God, our divine Creator, above all else, and; 4) love our neighbors as ourselves, and treat them the way we would want to be treated. And all of this is supposed to be voluntary, and as a matter of personal choice, and with pure motives, of course.

But, in order for any of this to actually work as intended, there must needs be opposition in all things. There must be a test. Among other things, there must be both natural adversity and an adversary.

At this point my working definition of “The Adversary” is something to this effect: “A grand and overarching Secret Combination, with Satan at its head, in combination with all his mortal and extra-mortal minions, and a myriad of smaller secret combinations, all seeking to exercise power, dominion and control, to ultimately make mankind zombie slaves, deprived of freedom (agency), common sense, reason, and fundamental capability, among other things. In a nutshell, seeking to destroy mankind and its associated potential, as created and intended by God. And at this point, we are a very long way down that path, with an important question to ask at this point: Which direction is the Church headed?

Both God and Satan have described some of the tools that the Adversary uses to accomplish these objectives. The first is power, dominion and authority — because, in God’s own words: We have learned from sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men that when they get/have a little authority, as they suppose, they will use it to exercise unrighteous/unjust dominion.

And, in Satan’s own words: You can buy anything in this world for Money — obviously including power, control and authority.

So, where does that leave us? Where does that leave the LDS Church and those who have Authority in it, as they suppose?

Now, let’s start looking at the largely circumstantial evidence, including current “Fruits” of the Church and its current “leadership,” based on the fundamental measuring sticks God has provided.

What if any evidence (fruits) do those in authority have to show of spiritual gifts, including revelation, prophesy, miracles, etc.? By their fruits, would you say they have gifts of the spirit, and revere and worship God above all else? If not, who/what do they worship? Based on the evidence, who do they hang-out with, and aspire to be with and be like? In addition to the UN, WEF, NAACP, BLM, etc., let’s throw out some other names, including, but not limited to: Bill Gates, George Soros, Klaus Schwab, the Pope, etc., all of whom are working to centralize and consolidate power and exercise control to eliminate freedom.

Who are the so-called “authorities” leading the Church trying hardest to impress? God, or the world? Since you can buy anything in this world for money, what are these authorities trying to buy with their money? What role does money play with these authorities? What are they doing with their money? Working tirelessly to help the poor and less fortunate? And to shed light on works of darkness? How important is power, authority, influence and control, to them? How important is their “friendship” and alliances with the world? Who is their god at this point? Is it conscious and knowing? Or is it unwitting? If it is unwitting, what kind of discernment do they have? What kind of prophets are they? What do the fruits and evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, suggest? When was the last time they condemned the world, and its growing wickedness? What are they doing to wear-out themselves and their lives to shed light on works of darkness?

Quoting another thread: “. . . know ye not that friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4

Is the COJCOLDS the actual Church of the Lamb of God, or is it part of the grand Secret Combination — the Whore of Babylon — intended to lead men astray, toward the world, and away from God?

Again, what does the evidence suggest? What do your gut, discernment, reason, common sense, and the Spirit tell you?
Last edited by tmac on November 26th, 2023, 10:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

tmac wrote: November 26th, 2023, 10:11 am It is interesting that this particular issue would generate such large and lopsided response in the poll, and both surprising and disappointing that so few seem to be willing to discuss it.

I suspect at it is largely one of those gut feeling sort of things, based primarily on circumstantial evidence (like the JFK assassination, 911, and a whole bunch of other things), without a foolproof smoking gun.

Since it’s something I am interested in, and today is shaping up to be a pretty quiet “snow day” for me, I’ll take a stab at outlining some of my thoughts on the subject.

Without citing specific scriptural references (anyone who wants to find them can), I’m going to start my personal outline with some basic, fundamental premises, the first of which is essentially God’s mission statement: For this is My work and My glory, to bring to pass the the eternal and everlasting life (exaltation) of man. According to my understanding of His plan and approach, the most fundamental element in the whole equation is Agency, Choice, and/or Free Will, otherwise known as Freedom and/or Liberty.

To assist in that physical and spiritual process, He has given (from the outset) four very basic, fundamental commandments, that can essentially be used both as tools for accomplishing God’s objective(s), as well as Measuring Sticks, for evaluation: 1) multiply and reproduce; 2) work and produce; 3) love and worship God, our divine Creator, above all else, and; 4) love our neighbors as ourselves, and treat them the way we would want to be treated. All of this voluntarily, and as a matter of personal choice, and with pure motives, of course.

But, in order for any of this to actually work as intended, There must needs be opposition in all things. Among other things, there must be adversity and an adversary.

At this point my working definition of “The Adversary” is something to this effect: “A grand and overarching Secret Combination, with Satan at its head, in combination with all his mortal and extra-mortal minions, seeking to exercise power, dominion and control, to ultimately make mankind zombie slaves, deprived of freedom (agency), common sense, and reason, among other things.

Both God and Satan have described some of the tools that the Adversary uses to accomplish these objectives. The first is power, dominion and Authority — because, in God’s words, We have learned from sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men that when they have a little authority, as they suppose, they will exercise unrighteous/unjust dominion.

And, in Satan’s own words: You can buy anything in this world for Money.

So, where does that leave us? Where does that leave the LDS Church and those who have Authority in it, as they suppose?

Now, let’s start looking at the largely circumstantial evidence, including “Fruits,” based on the fundamental measuring sticks.

What if any evidence (fruits) do those in authority have to show of spiritual gifts, including revelation, prophesy, miracles, etc.? By their fruits, would you say they have gifts of the spirit, and revere and worship God above all else? If not, who do they worship? Based on the evidence, who do they hang-out with, and aspire to be with and be like? Let’s throw out some names: Bill Gates, George Soros, Klaus Schwab, etc., all of whom are working to centralize and consolidate power and exercise control to eliminate freedom.

Who are the so-called “authorities” leading the Church trying to impress? Since you can buy anything in this world for money, what are these authorities trying to buy with their money? How important is money to these authorities? What are they doing with their money? How important is power, authority, influence and control, to them? How important is their “friendship” with the world? Who is their god at this point? Is it conscious and knowing? Is it unwitting? What do the fruits and circumstantial evidence suggest?

Quoting another thread: “. . . know ye not that friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4

Is the COJCOLDS the Church of the Lamb of God, or part of the grand Secret Combination — the Whore of Babylon — intended to lead men astray, toward the world, and away from God?

Again, what does the circumstantial evidence suggest?
Thank you. These are very interesting ideas to chew on imo. This sums up the issue nicely and is the most comprehensive explanation I’ve seen. InfoWarrior82 did include a post with lots of direct evidence showing the LDS’ undeniable involvement with UN initiatives in the polling thread on this topic but I haven’t seen anyone put down the overarching *theory* or framework for it all in one place.

The James 4:4 quote was especially damning imo when you take it at face value. It does beg the question…should the LDS be “flirting” with Babylon and the whore like the evidence InfoWarrior82 and others have provided show they are?

I would say when put how you did it makes sense members believe this line of thinking so much since there have also been lots of threads on here about 9/11, CIA Mkultra, UT politics, TB, SRA etc. So it makes sense that members would see this issue in a similar light as having so much circumstantial evidence which ultimately puts the burden of proof on the church to disprove their associations and dealings with Babylon.

76 individuals on this site believe the church is or probably is involved in this. That was higher than any other issue. 114 people voted which was nearly 3x as many as on other polls. It’s clearly a hotbed issue.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by RosyPosy »

Simple it is outlined in the scriptures in my post here.
RosyPosy wrote: November 19th, 2023, 8:27 pm Mormon 8

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

39 Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not?

40 Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads?

41 Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he vengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.

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madvin
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by madvin »

Although it seems the LDS leaders at the top tacitly support the UN and others in their conspiracies, I still do not think they are knowingly doing so. There are plenty of people who just assume 'facts' that are just not true, but the preponderance of assumptions cause them not to question. And so, the LDS leadership has been led astray by 'main stream' presentations through various forms of media and traditions found in our schools. Harold B. Lee said it plainly: we do not receive much revelation, so we do what seems right and then wait on the Lord to correct us.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by Ebenezer »

madvin wrote: November 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm Although it seems the LDS leaders at the top tacitly support the UN and others in their conspiracies, I still do not think they are knowingly doing so. There are plenty of people who just assume 'facts' that are just not true, but the preponderance of assumptions cause them not to question. And so, the LDS leadership has been led astray by 'main stream' presentations through various forms of media and traditions found in our schools. Harold B. Lee said it plainly: we do not receive much revelation, so we do what seems right and then wait on the Lord to correct us.
The Brethren are the least fallible people on earth. They see around corners.

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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by madvin »

Ebenezer wrote: November 26th, 2023, 4:07 pm
madvin wrote: November 26th, 2023, 3:41 pm Although it seems the LDS leaders at the top tacitly support the UN and others in their conspiracies, I still do not think they are knowingly doing so. There are plenty of people who just assume 'facts' that are just not true, but the preponderance of assumptions cause them not to question. And so, the LDS leadership has been led astray by 'main stream' presentations through various forms of media and traditions found in our schools. Harold B. Lee said it plainly: we do not receive much revelation, so we do what seems right and then wait on the Lord to correct us.
The Brethren are the least fallible people on earth. They see around corners.
I didn't realize it before, but the saying "...see around corners" is from the business world.

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FrankOne
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by FrankOne »

imo, the Q15 are compromised by fear in trying to protect the church, it's assets and the members. In this , they maintain their alliance with a power that is greater than their own. Blinded by fear, they lead the church into shackles and eventual destruction. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are intentionally hell bent on following Lucifer.

within the lower echelon of leaders, there are no doubt deliberate alliances with the devil himself.

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

FrankOne wrote: November 26th, 2023, 6:15 pm imo, the Q15 are compromised by fear in trying to protect the church, it's assets and the members. In this , they maintain their alliance with a power that is greater than their own. Blinded by fear, they lead the church into shackles and eventual destruction. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are intentionally hell bent on following Lucifer.

within the lower echelon of leaders, there are no doubt deliberate alliances with the devil himself.
So would you say, in your mind, it’s less overt being a part of secret combinations on their part and more going along with the world to keep their money and assets?

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FrankOne
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Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by FrankOne »

fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 26th, 2023, 8:21 pm
FrankOne wrote: November 26th, 2023, 6:15 pm imo, the Q15 are compromised by fear in trying to protect the church, it's assets and the members. In this , they maintain their alliance with a power that is greater than their own. Blinded by fear, they lead the church into shackles and eventual destruction. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are intentionally hell bent on following Lucifer.

within the lower echelon of leaders, there are no doubt deliberate alliances with the devil himself.
So would you say, in your mind, it’s less overt being a part of secret combinations on their part and more going along with the world to keep their money and assets?
i don't know. In truth, I'm guessing.

fractal_light_harvest
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Posts: 785

Re: Discussion Group: In what way(s) do you believe the LDS church is or isn’t involved in secret combinations?

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

FrankOne wrote: November 26th, 2023, 8:37 pm
fractal_light_harvest wrote: November 26th, 2023, 8:21 pm
FrankOne wrote: November 26th, 2023, 6:15 pm imo, the Q15 are compromised by fear in trying to protect the church, it's assets and the members. In this , they maintain their alliance with a power that is greater than their own. Blinded by fear, they lead the church into shackles and eventual destruction. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are intentionally hell bent on following Lucifer.

within the lower echelon of leaders, there are no doubt deliberate alliances with the devil himself.
So would you say, in your mind, it’s less overt being a part of secret combinations on their part and more going along with the world to keep their money and assets?
i don't know. In truth, I'm guessing.
Interesting. But you feel they are involved or you’re not sure?

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