What is the “right way”? An expose on love.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Below is a FB post from a cousin of mine. My response (which I’ll share later) led to some interesting discussion.

I’d be curious if you agree or disagree (or have a nuanced view) w/ the following:

I thought my job as a dad was to teach my kids the right way.
I had to learn the “right way” is to just love them.

[Reluctant Watchman]

A few words from Lehi to get the creative juices flowing:

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Now add this verse to the mix:

25 Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.

[David13]

So to say there is no right way.

There is only amorality, or no morality. No right and no wrong.

dc

[Reluctant Watchman]

So to say there is no right way.

There is only amorality, or no morality. No right and no wrong.

dc

“Moral relativism is the idea that there is no universal or absolute set of moral principles. It's a version of morality that advocates ‘to each her own,’ and those who follow it say, ‘Who am I to judge?’”

[Bronco73idi]

So to say there is no right way.

There is only amorality, or no morality. No right and no wrong.

dc

“Moral relativism is the idea that there is no universal or absolute set of moral principles. It's a version of morality that advocates ‘to each her own,’ and those who follow it say, ‘Who am I to judge?’”

Philosophy of men have brought about these ridiculous ideas and women embrace them. They make their husbands follow them.

Moses 2nd wife thought it was wrong to follow Moses’s God law and make her kids bleed. Obviously Moses was too weak to be a man, so his God had to come down to kill him until his wife had to circumcise her sons herself!

The Lord isn’t going to make most people follow his law, because? It’s a mean answer, no equality in this answer!

[Reluctant Watchman]

So to say there is no right way.

There is only amorality, or no morality. No right and no wrong.

dc

“Moral relativism is the idea that there is no universal or absolute set of moral principles. It's a version of morality that advocates ‘to each her own,’ and those who follow it say, ‘Who am I to judge?’”

Philosophy of men have brought about these ridiculous ideas and women embrace them. They make their husbands follow them.

Moses 2nd wife thought it was wrong to follow Moses’s God law and make her kids bleed. Obviously Moses was too weak to be a man, so his God had to come down to kill him until his wife had to circumcise her sons herself!

The Lord isn’t going to make most people follow his law, because? It’s a mean answer, no equality in this answer!

I think anyone who demands (keyword there) you “follow” them, is wrong, regardless of gender. Many men in the church have been taught that their wives must follow them.

Maybe it was you who stormed out of the temple endowment when Eve no longer covenanted with Adam. I’m pretty sure someone shared that here on the forum.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I’m struggling to find the verse in the BoM that prophesies that in the last days many shall say that there is no sin? Does anybody have a reference to that prophecy? I was pretty sure there was a verse outside of Levi’s discourse that talked about this.

[Fight for the right]

Below is a FB post from a cousin of mine. My response (which I’ll share later) led to some interesting discussion.

I’d be curious if you agree or disagree (or have a nuanced view) w/ the following:

I thought my job as a dad was to teach my kids the right way.
I had to learn the “right way” is to just love them.

I love them alright but I don't like some of the things they do and I'll tell them LOUD AND CLEAR. Just to love them statement is plain old stupid.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Below is a FB post from a cousin of mine. My response (which I’ll share later) led to some interesting discussion.

I’d be curious if you agree or disagree (or have a nuanced view) w/ the following:

I thought my job as a dad was to teach my kids the right way.
I had to learn the “right way” is to just love them.

I love them alright but I don't like some of the things they do and I'll tell them LOUD AND CLEAR. Just to love them statement is plain old stupid.

I think a balance can and should happen. God did not intend for us to exist in a vacuum. We are born into family groups for a reason. I believe the role of a parent is to teach “the law”, but that actually gets quite confusing at times. Many religions preach there version of “the law”, yet I feel these dogmas are preached through guilt, shame, and compulsion.

I believe the greatest effort should be made in helping our children discern the fruits of “the law”, and whether they produce lasting misery or lasting happiness.

In some ways I believe my cousin in simply pushing away really hard from various false traditions and beliefs in the LDS church.

[Fight for the right]

Firstly we are all God's children and we better teach them the law's Christ has implemented or we won't have them in the next life and we'll be condemned now and then. You talk about discernment. Yes one of the gifts of the Spirit. They need to be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit which puts off the natural man. The world today is being run by the natural man who is close to Satan and his gang.

[Mindfields]

law's Christ has implemented

And just what are these laws exactly?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Firstly we are all God's children and we better teach them the law's Christ has implemented or we won't have them in the next life and we'll be condemned now and then. You talk about discernment. Yes one of the gifts of the Spirit. They need to be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit which puts off the natural man. The world today is being run by the natural man who is close to Satan and his gang.

I think God is far more loving and forgiving than most of us have been taught. “We better…” is a phrase rooted in compulsion and guilt. “Having” children in the next life is an interesting LDS theology. This suggests some form of hierarchy. While a parent does raise a child, I have to wonder if our “age” is simply determined by our progression of light and knowledge.

While I do believe that those who are given “the law” of faith, repentance, and baptism enter in by the gate, there are also measures taken to exalt those without the law. Hence why I quoted this:

“ and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.”

And yes, much of the world is running toward natural man tendencies and ego. Those traits being found amongs all sections, religions, and organizations.

[Bronco73idi]

“Moral relativism is the idea that there is no universal or absolute set of moral principles. It's a version of morality that advocates ‘to each her own,’ and those who follow it say, ‘Who am I to judge?’”

Philosophy of men have brought about these ridiculous ideas and women embrace them. They make their husbands follow them.

Moses 2nd wife thought it was wrong to follow Moses’s God law and make her kids bleed. Obviously Moses was too weak to be a man, so his God had to come down to kill him until his wife had to circumcise her sons herself!

The Lord isn’t going to make most people follow his law, because? It’s a mean answer, no equality in this answer!

I think anyone who demands (keyword there) you “follow” them, is wrong, regardless of gender. Many men in the church have been taught that their wives must follow them.

Maybe it was you who stormed out of the temple endowment when Eve no longer covenanted with Adam. I’m pretty sure someone shared that here on the forum.

That’s hilarious!

Eve does covenant with the Father, not my fault you are too blind to understand.

It wasn’t me who stormed out of anywhere.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Philosophy of men have brought about these ridiculous ideas and women embrace them. They make their husbands follow them.

Moses 2nd wife thought it was wrong to follow Moses’s God law and make her kids bleed. Obviously Moses was too weak to be a man, so his God had to come down to kill him until his wife had to circumcise her sons herself!

The Lord isn’t going to make most people follow his law, because? It’s a mean answer, no equality in this answer!

I think anyone who demands (keyword there) you “follow” them, is wrong, regardless of gender. Many men in the church have been taught that their wives must follow them.

Maybe it was you who stormed out of the temple endowment when Eve no longer covenanted with Adam. I’m pretty sure someone shared that here on the forum.

That’s hilarious!

Eve does covenant with the Father, not my fault you are too blind to understand.

It wasn’t me who stormed out of anywhere.

You know what I was stating.

[Bronco73idi]

I think anyone who demands (keyword there) you “follow” them, is wrong, regardless of gender. Many men in the church have been taught that their wives must follow them.

Maybe it was you who stormed out of the temple endowment when Eve no longer covenanted with Adam. I’m pretty sure someone shared that here on the forum.

That’s hilarious!

Eve does covenant with the Father, not my fault you are too blind to understand.

It wasn’t me who stormed out of anywhere.

You know what I was stating.

I do, I also know that Moses was almost killed, not his Gentile wife! She made a marriage covenant with her husband and he made a marriage covenant with his lord.

Think about it brother

[Fight for the right]

law's Christ has implemented

And just what are these laws exactly?

The ten commandments. The Bible, the book of Mormon, doctrine and covenants, and so on are full of Christ's teachings or commandments.

[Atrasado]

It seems to me that charity is the answer to many things, if not all things. Charity doesn't excuse sin or teach that sin is acceptable. But it is patient and kind, and it bears with people and their struggles. It doesn't judge, while also maintaining standards. It doesn't lie, or accept lies, while still loving the hurt and confused child behind the lies. I struggle to have charity, but I do believe in it.

There are snakes out there that with full knowledge hurt people. I don't understand it, but they exist. Christ could call them out for he knew each man and their heart. We don't, so we testify to their works and leave them to God. We forgive all men.

[Reluctant Watchman]

It seems to me that charity is the answer to many things, if not all things. Charity doesn't excuse sin or teach that sin is acceptable. But it is patient and kind, and it bears with people and their struggles. It doesn't judge, while also maintaining standards. It doesn't lie, or accept lies, while still loving the hurt and confused child behind the lies. I struggle to have charity, but I do believe in it.

There are snakes out there that with full knowledge hurt people. I don't understand it, but they exist. Christ could call them out for he knew each man and their heart. We don't, so we testify to their works and leave them to God. We forgive all men.

The idea of what constitutes “love” has been distorted in society today, especially w/in the church.

[fractal_light_harvest]

It seems to me that charity is the answer to many things, if not all things. Charity doesn't excuse sin or teach that sin is acceptable. But it is patient and kind, and it bears with people and their struggles. It doesn't judge, while also maintaining standards. It doesn't lie, or accept lies, while still loving the hurt and confused child behind the lies. I struggle to have charity, but I do believe in it.

There are snakes out there that with full knowledge hurt people. I don't understand it, but they exist. Christ could call them out for he knew each man and their heart. We don't, so we testify to their works and leave them to God. We forgive all men.

The idea of what constitutes “love” has been distorted in society today, especially w/in the church.

I think this is one way Satan gains control over groups is by distorting the way they define or apply important concepts such as "love". Then the people who don't like the definition are so offended they go out of their way to practice the polar opposite and he successfully creates a "faction war" of two polar opposite groups ideologically opposed to one another and out for blood.

[Wondering Wendy]

I thought my job as a dad was to teach my kids the right way.
I had to learn the “right way” is to just love them.

I think his words are correct, though I don't know if he's implementing them properly since I don't know him.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I would clarify we are to love them as Father and Jesus love us. They are our perfect exemplars. They teach us the proper way to live, which is the only way to receive a fullness of joy.

God allows us our free agency to live as we choose, his spirit always trying to guide us toward the holy path, chastising us as we go. What is his typical chastisement, though? Mostly leaving us to the consequences of our choices and withdrawing his spirit and protection from us, I think.

Some of us have to live through those consequences in order to truly learn why holiness is the best path.

As parents, we are to teach our children the best, holy path. We also are to teach by word and deed, even as Jesus did. We do the best we can so they understand the path. Then, whether they choose that path, is up to them. It usually depends on whatever spiritual level they are at. Keep in mind, not all our children will be on the same level.

We love them, as Father loves us. We allow them to sin and make mistakes, just as we have. We continue to point the way to the holy path, hoping they will someday choose to follow Christ. We don't have to be harsh or angry about how we correct them. A calm, sure word every now and then seems to work for God, as does a good example.

This is how I see it at the moment, anyway.

[JK4Woods]

… Ummm…

So I heard this the other day from a sister who went out to lunch with Stake President's wife last week.

She heard that some of the YM in our stake wards have turned into hooligans. Literally they pick on people, are rude and do rude things.

Because they are juvenile Delinquents the YW won't do combined activities with them anymore.

These YM will go to a supermarket, and climb the shelving and run/jump from shelf to shelf...

Newish young bishop of this ward (a lawyer for wills & trusts) with little kids, who often quotes Disney movies when speaking, has decided a book club is the way to wrangle the kids into some semblance of order....

Book club starts in January....

[CuriousThinker]

… Ummm…

So I heard this the other day from a sister who went out to lunch with Stake President's wife last week.

She heard that some of the YM in our stake wards have turned into hooligans. Literally they pick on people, are rude and do rude things.

Because they are juvenile Delinquents the YW won't do combined activities with them anymore.

These YM will go to a supermarket, and climb the shelving and run/jump from shelf to shelf...

Newish young bishop of this ward (a lawyer for wills & trusts) with little kids, who often quotes Disney movies when speaking, has decided a book club is the way to wrangle the kids into some semblance of order....

Book club starts in January....

Where the heck are the parents?!

[FrankOne]

Below is a FB post from a cousin of mine. My response (which I’ll share later) led to some interesting discussion.

I’d be curious if you agree or disagree (or have a nuanced view) w/ the following:

I thought my job as a dad was to teach my kids the right way.
I had to learn the “right way” is to just love them.

As I have been through this myself, my conclusion is "both". Everything in its time. This subject is one of the deepest that exists on earth.

one would have to define "right" and one would have to define "love".

Agreement in this discussion between two people can never be found except between two that are one with Christ, which I haven't yet found on earth.

[FrankOne]

A few words from Lehi to get the creative juices flowing:

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

Did God say the above or did a Man?

I would call the above, a sequential fallacy created by a Man to make an attempt to answer his own existence and convince others in order to validate his position.

"philosophies of men"

edit to add a brief conclusion to Lehi's words:

"happiness cannot exist if sin does not exist".

False