M. Russell Ballard suspect of "manipulation and fraud" in 1961.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Well, this tidbit of info is quite interesting given the recent allegations (said to be false by the church) about Ballard giving tithing data over to OUR in order to target wealthy donors. The following quote comes from a Wiki pages on him:

"In 1961, Ballard was the president of Keystone Securities Corporation in Salt Lake City. The Securities and Exchange Commission opened an investigation into Keystone in 1962 after accusations that Ballard and Keystone had violated the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 and the Securities Act of 1933. The investigation centered around "manipulation and fraud."[16] The SEC completed its investigation in 1963. Keystone, with Ballard as the primary cause, was found to have violated the Securities Act of 1933 in the following charges: providing false statements to the SEC, and aiding and abetting Shasta Mineral and Chemical Company in making false statements that included misrepresenting the relationships of the Shasta officers with both Ballard and Keystone. The SEC revoked the broker-dealer registration of Keystone as a result.[17]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russel ... 0of%201933.

[Chip]

From the Wiki entry on Ballard:

"He was the top-selling salesman for his father's Nash car dealership when he left it in the early 1950s to pursue other business interests. In 1956, Ballard returned and took over the Ballard Motor Company from his father."

Remember that video where the gay man claimed that he had sex numerous times with Gordon B. Hinckley at some party house in SLC? I think I remember him saying that he worked at a Nash car dealership. If I recall, that dealership was the hub for connections to the party house. Are they the same?

[SimpleSaint]

Interesting questions Chip... Could Ballard's Gordon Bowen connection help in figuring that out?

[SimpleSaint]

From the Wiki entry on Ballard:

"He was the top-selling salesman for his father's Nash car dealership when he left it in the early 1950s to pursue other business interests. In 1956, Ballard returned and took over the Ballard Motor Company from his father."

Remember that video where the gay man claimed that he had sex numerous times with Gordon B. Hinckley at some party house in SLC? I think I remember him saying that he worked at a Nash car dealership. If I recall, that dealership was the hub for connections to the party house. Are they the same?

I'd be interested in seeing that video if you're able to locate it again.

[Telavian]

I'd be interested in seeing that video if you're able to locate it again.

[silverado]

The Ballard Motor Company was at 633 South Main St.

[Libertas Est Salus]

What do people think of that video alleging all sorts of wild behavior by GBH? The whole thing seems a bridge too far for me. I can very easily accept that GBH was not a true PSR (as I am now of the opinion that we haven't had a true PSR since JS). But my goodness that video has some incredible claims. Doesn't it seem impossible that the leader of the Mormon church could do hardly a fraction of those things in the State of Utah without news spreading like wildfire?

Also, the main accuser (who was on his deathbed), he doesn't strike me as particularly credible.

But maybe I'm just too naive.

What are y'alls thoughts?

[Reluctant Watchman]

What do people think of that video alleging all sorts of wild behavior by GBH? The whole thing seems a bridge too far for me. I can very easily accept that GBH was not a true PSR (as I am now of the opinion that we haven't had a true PSR since JS). But my goodness that video has some incredible claims. Doesn't it seem impossible that the leader of the Mormon church could do hardly a fraction of those things in the State of Utah without news spreading like wildfire?

Also, the main accuser (who was on his deathbed), he doesn't strike me as particularly credible.

But maybe I'm just too naive.

What are y'alls thoughts?

JR Sweet's journals (Mormon Monarch) implicate GBH on this same claim.

I think there's something odd going on w/ GBH, the way he handled 9/11 was suspect.

[Libertas Est Salus]

What do people think of that video alleging all sorts of wild behavior by GBH? The whole thing seems a bridge too far for me. I can very easily accept that GBH was not a true PSR (as I am now of the opinion that we haven't had a true PSR since JS). But my goodness that video has some incredible claims. Doesn't it seem impossible that the leader of the Mormon church could do hardly a fraction of those things in the State of Utah without news spreading like wildfire?

Also, the main accuser (who was on his deathbed), he doesn't strike me as particularly credible.

But maybe I'm just too naive.

What are y'alls thoughts?

JR Sweet's journals (Mormon Monarch) implicate GBH on this same claim.

I think there's something odd going on w/ GBH, the way he handled 9/11 was suspect.

Interesting. I don't know anything about JR Sweet, so I guess that necessitates another credibility assessment for me.

I definitely agree that GBH's handling of 9/11 was suspect. In fact, the easiest way for me to make sense of the church leadership over the last 2 decades (and particularly RMN's tenure) is to assume that TPTB have dirt on them and are using that dirt as leverage to dictate their behavior.

I still can't wrap my mind around GBH being able to live such a fabulously degenerate double life as a homosexual in the state of Utah without it becoming public knowledge, especially during that time period.

I have no problem being wrong on this. I just want the truth, whatever it is.

[Chip]

The Ballard Motor Company was at 633 South Main St.

Listen for a few seconds here. At 1:24 the guy that was investigating GBH said that GBH was involved in heterosexual and homosexual love affairs at the house on Lakeland Drive and at the car lot on South Main, in an apartment above:

https://www.youtube.com/live/nW5hgJ9Yic ... qJjkH&t=67

[Reluctant Watchman]

Interesting. I don't know anything about JR Sweet, so I guess that necessitates another credibility assessment for me.

I definitely agree that GBH's handling of 9/11 was suspect. In fact, the easiest way for me to make sense of the church leadership over the last 2 decades (and particularly RMN's tenure) is to assume that TPTB have dirt on them and are using that dirt as leverage to dictate their behavior.

I still can't wrap my mind around GBH being able to live such a fabulously degenerate double life as a homosexual in the state of Utah without it becoming public knowledge, especially during that time period.

I have no problem being wrong on this. I just want the truth, whatever it is.

I don't necessarily invite anyone to read this, it's horrific if true, but nonetheless, it exists: https://mormonmonarch.com/prophet-of-pain/

[SimpleSaint]

What do people think of that video alleging all sorts of wild behavior by GBH? The whole thing seems a bridge too far for me. I can very easily accept that GBH was not a true PSR (as I am now of the opinion that we haven't had a true PSR since JS). But my goodness that video has some incredible claims. Doesn't it seem impossible that the leader of the Mormon church could do hardly a fraction of those things in the State of Utah without news spreading like wildfire?

Also, the main accuser (who was on his deathbed), he doesn't strike me as particularly credible.

But maybe I'm just too naive.

What are y'alls thoughts?

Maybe that's just it, you surround yourself with people who don't seem credible while engaging in this type of behavior so that even if they were to tell the truth, people would have a hard time believing them. Why would anyone believe someone who participates in an immoral lifestyle?

One reason why children are also targets of abusers is because they may not even be able to make sense of what happened to them and describe it to adults in a way that adults can understand. They may have a hard time figuring out if what happened to them was wrong since it is someone they "trust" doing those things to them. Then they may have trust issues moving forward with telling someone else about what happened to them. Such was the case with me when i finally came out in my early pre-teen years about my being sexually abused by a priesthood holder and family friend (he converted my dad to the church) from 3-7 years of age. My mom confessed to me later in my adult years that my dad did not believe me when I told them which is why nothing was done about it and why I felt like it was just swept under the rug. If this man who abused me could get away with it even without being in a position of power, imagine what higher up leadership can do. These men in leadership have that much power and influence that I can see them being able to get away with things simply because of the shock value that it creates when people of good faith hear that these supposedly good men could ever do such things. The cognitive dissonance doesn't easily allow for people to accept it.

[JuneBug12000]

My ex husband and his brothers were abused by their uncle and cousin. He remembered as a small child being taken to the hospital laying in his belly in the back seat of a car because his anus was pulled out and very painful.

His dad wanted to be a good member of the church so they had to "forgive them" and kept having contact for their whole lives.

Needless to say, all the boys had trouble.

So sad when parents don't protect kids.

I think sometimes people just don't know what to do.

But his dad was definitely wrong to not break contact with them and protect his family.

[Seed Starter]

Well, this tidbit of info is quite interesting given the recent allegations (said to be false by the church) about Ballard giving tithing data over to OUR in order to target wealthy donors. The following quote comes from a Wiki pages on him:

"In 1961, Ballard was the president of Keystone Securities Corporation in Salt Lake City. The Securities and Exchange Commission opened an investigation into Keystone in 1962 after accusations that Ballard and Keystone had violated the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 and the Securities Act of 1933. The investigation centered around "manipulation and fraud."[16] The SEC completed its investigation in 1963. Keystone, with Ballard as the primary cause, was found to have violated the Securities Act of 1933 in the following charges: providing false statements to the SEC, and aiding and abetting Shasta Mineral and Chemical Company in making false statements that included misrepresenting the relationships of the Shasta officers with both Ballard and Keystone. The SEC revoked the broker-dealer registration of Keystone as a result.[17]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russel ... 0of%201933.

How funny this Valley Music Hall is noted as a highlight:
"One highlight of Ballard's business career was his presidency of the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful, Utah, which offered family entertainment. There Ballard worked with Art Linkletter, Danny Thomas, Bob Cummings, and other Hollywood celebrities who were advisers to the enterprise. Although the music hall failed financially, investors recovered their money when the LDS Church purchased the building."

That theater had a $1 million dollar operating loss in 1970. The church bailed him out of that mess or he would have been in real trouble with investors.
Go to 35 minute mark:

Getting his son in law to deal with his Tim Ballard investment isn't going to fool anyone.

[Robin Hood]

Interesting. I don't know anything about JR Sweet, so I guess that necessitates another credibility assessment for me.

I definitely agree that GBH's handling of 9/11 was suspect. In fact, the easiest way for me to make sense of the church leadership over the last 2 decades (and particularly RMN's tenure) is to assume that TPTB have dirt on them and are using that dirt as leverage to dictate their behavior.

I still can't wrap my mind around GBH being able to live such a fabulously degenerate double life as a homosexual in the state of Utah without it becoming public knowledge, especially during that time period.

I have no problem being wrong on this. I just want the truth, whatever it is.

I don't necessarily invite anyone to read this, it's horrific if true, but nonetheless, it exists: https://mormonmonarch.com/prophet-of-pain/

Something struck me as a little odd in the first paragraph. It says that GBH was newly appointed as the church president and therefore wanted the info on the mind control programme. The thing is, GBH had been running the church for years before he was made president. He was a counsellor in the FP to more than one ailing church president, and it was an open secret that he was calling all the shots. He wouldn't have had to wait until his ascension in order to get this information.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Interesting. I don't know anything about JR Sweet, so I guess that necessitates another credibility assessment for me.

I definitely agree that GBH's handling of 9/11 was suspect. In fact, the easiest way for me to make sense of the church leadership over the last 2 decades (and particularly RMN's tenure) is to assume that TPTB have dirt on them and are using that dirt as leverage to dictate their behavior.

I still can't wrap my mind around GBH being able to live such a fabulously degenerate double life as a homosexual in the state of Utah without it becoming public knowledge, especially during that time period.

I have no problem being wrong on this. I just want the truth, whatever it is.

I don't necessarily invite anyone to read this, it's horrific if true, but nonetheless, it exists: https://mormonmonarch.com/prophet-of-pain/

Something struck me as a little odd in the first paragraph. It says that GBH was newly appointed as the church president and therefore wanted the info on the mind control programme. The thing is, GBH had been running the church for years before he was made president. He was a counsellor in the FP to more than one ailing church president, and it was an open secret that he was calling all the shots. He wouldn't have had to wait until his ascension in order to get this information.

As president he was able to move about more freely, is my guess. I dunno. It's all dark and weird regardless. GBHs response to 9/11 was creepy enough for me. For a man who was a "prophet" he sure pulled out his ignoramus card, just like the Q15 are doing with Covid. But maybe they know something we don't... right? *wink*

[Mala_Suerte]

What do people think of that video alleging all sorts of wild behavior by GBH? The whole thing seems a bridge too far for me. I can very easily accept that GBH was not a true PSR (as I am now of the opinion that we haven't had a true PSR since JS). But my goodness that video has some incredible claims. Doesn't it seem impossible that the leader of the Mormon church could do hardly a fraction of those things in the State of Utah without news spreading like wildfire?

Also, the main accuser (who was on his deathbed), he doesn't strike me as particularly credible.

But maybe I'm just too naive.

What are y'alls thoughts?

I didn't watch the video, but I believe I watched it when there was a thread about it a while back. From my point of view, the witnesses and stories lacked credibility.

Regarding the "manipulation and fraud", the wikipedia article and links to the SEC notes is insufficient to really know what did or did not happen and what Ballard's role may have been. A CEO and the board of directors, for that matter, can be liable for a lot of bad acts that occur in a business even if they are unaware of the specifics. An innocent person can get caught up in and charged with the bad acts of co-workers as well. A friend of a friend is going through this right now. FBI rolled in and arrested him along w/ the CEO, CFO, investors, supervisors, etc. He was a middle man that had his name on a lot of paper work, but he was isolated from what sales was doing on one side and what upper management was doing on the other, he just processed orders. I'm not saying Ballard didn't do anything wrong, just that there isn't enough evidence presented to make a determination. I'm not spending my time digging around to find 62 year old SEC documents.

[Atrasado]

From the Wiki entry on Ballard:

"He was the top-selling salesman for his father's Nash car dealership when he left it in the early 1950s to pursue other business interests. In 1956, Ballard returned and took over the Ballard Motor Company from his father."

Remember that video where the gay man claimed that he had sex numerous times with Gordon B. Hinckley at some party house in SLC? I think I remember him saying that he worked at a Nash car dealership. If I recall, that dealership was the hub for connections to the party house. Are they the same?

No. That was a used car dealership owned by a man named Walton Hunter. Walton Hunter was a two time bishop in the Church and was excommunicated for molesting his daughters. There are six witnesses I'm aware of to the fact that Gordon Hinckley and Walton Hunter were close associates and Hinckley would visit his used car dealership.

[Atrasado]

What do people think of that video alleging all sorts of wild behavior by GBH? The whole thing seems a bridge too far for me. I can very easily accept that GBH was not a true PSR (as I am now of the opinion that we haven't had a true PSR since JS). But my goodness that video has some incredible claims. Doesn't it seem impossible that the leader of the Mormon church could do hardly a fraction of those things in the State of Utah without news spreading like wildfire?

Also, the main accuser (who was on his deathbed), he doesn't strike me as particularly credible.

But maybe I'm just too naive.

What are y'alls thoughts?

JR Sweet's journals (Mormon Monarch) implicate GBH on this same claim.

I think there's something odd going on w/ GBH, the way he handled 9/11 was suspect.

Interesting. I don't know anything about JR Sweet, so I guess that necessitates another credibility assessment for me.

I definitely agree that GBH's handling of 9/11 was suspect. In fact, the easiest way for me to make sense of the church leadership over the last 2 decades (and particularly RMN's tenure) is to assume that TPTB have dirt on them and are using that dirt as leverage to dictate their behavior.

I still can't wrap my mind around GBH being able to live such a fabulously degenerate double life as a homosexual in the state of Utah without it becoming public knowledge, especially during that time period.

I have no problem being wrong on this. I just want the truth, whatever it is.

The Lord has given us a rubric to evaluate accusations. As I understand it, the rubric is:

1. The accusers need to be eye witnesses.
2. The accusers need to be at least two or three in number.
3. The accusers, when cross examined need to agree on the details.

What isn't part of the rubric are:

1. What "type" of a person the witnesses are, their personal history, or their socio-economic class. All witnesses should be treated equally.
2. What type of person the accused is. It doesn't matter the status of who is involved, high or low.
3. How believable the accusations are. Truth is often stranger than fiction and we rarely know what is really possible. Stage magicians pull off magic tricks all the time because audiences don't understand what is really possible.

The reason the Lord's law is so wise is that it is very difficult to get people to line up their accusations to very specific details. So two false witnesses against someone will have a hard time standing up against a good cross examination.

The case against Gordon Hinckley doesn't have the cross examination portion, but that was because the Church chose not to hold a disciplinary council for him, even though the scriptures dictate that a council should have been held. However, the amount of video that was recorded and the level of detail contained on those videos about those allegations are of such a level that, to a fair degree that requirement is met. Certainly there is evidence enough, to me, that I find the accusations to be quite credible under the rubric provided by the Lord in Deuteronomy and affirmed by the Lord in the New Testament and the Doctrine and Covenants.

[honestseeker12]

I don't necessarily invite anyone to read this, it's horrific if true, but nonetheless, it exists: https://mormonmonarch.com/prophet-of-pain/

Something struck me as a little odd in the first paragraph. It says that GBH was newly appointed as the church president and therefore wanted the info on the mind control programme. The thing is, GBH had been running the church for years before he was made president. He was a counsellor in the FP to more than one ailing church president, and it was an open secret that he was calling all the shots. He wouldn't have had to wait until his ascension in order to get this information.

As president he was able to move about more freely, is my guess. I dunno. It's all dark and weird regardless. GBHs response to 9/11 was creepy enough for me. For a man who was a "prophet" he sure pulled out his ignoramus card, just like the Q15 are doing with Covid. But maybe they know something we don't... right? *wink*

I don't remember anything how GBH responded to 9/11. I am not sure I was even aware of the church's response. What did he do or not do?

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don't remember anything how GBH responded to 9/11. I am not sure I was even aware of the church's response. What did he do or not do?

It's mostly what he didn't do. He quoted the book of Joel about pillars of smoke and then talked about terrorism but in a vague sense. In essence, he did nothing, when mountains of evidence were available. He also had to be aware of the firing of Bro. Jones due to his proving that explosives were used in the demolition charges.

[larsenb]

Well, this tidbit of info is quite interesting given the recent allegations (said to be false by the church) about Ballard giving tithing data over to OUR in order to target wealthy donors. The following quote comes from a Wiki pages on him:

"In 1961, Ballard was the president of Keystone Securities Corporation in Salt Lake City. The Securities and Exchange Commission opened an investigation into Keystone in 1962 after accusations that Ballard and Keystone had violated the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 and the Securities Act of 1933. The investigation centered around "manipulation and fraud."[16] The SEC completed its investigation in 1963. Keystone, with Ballard as the primary cause, was found to have violated the Securities Act of 1933 in the following charges: providing false statements to the SEC, and aiding and abetting Shasta Mineral and Chemical Company in making false statements that included misrepresenting the relationships of the Shasta officers with both Ballard and Keystone. The SEC revoked the broker-dealer registration of Keystone as a result.[17]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russel ... 0of%201933.

How funny this Valley Music Hall is noted as a highlight:
"One highlight of Ballard's business career was his presidency of the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful, Utah, which offered family entertainment. There Ballard worked with Art Linkletter, Danny Thomas, Bob Cummings, and other Hollywood celebrities who were advisers to the enterprise. Although the music hall failed financially, investors recovered their money when the LDS Church purchased the building."

That theater had a $1 million dollar operating loss in 1970. The church bailed him out of that mess or he would have been in real trouble with investors.
Go to 37 minute mark:

Getting his son in law to deal with his Tim Ballard investment isn't going to fool anyone.

I'm wondering if that's the place we meet for Stake Conferences in the Bountiful area. Close to 26th South by I-15.

[Seed Starter]

Well, this tidbit of info is quite interesting given the recent allegations (said to be false by the church) about Ballard giving tithing data over to OUR in order to target wealthy donors. The following quote comes from a Wiki pages on him:

"In 1961, Ballard was the president of Keystone Securities Corporation in Salt Lake City. The Securities and Exchange Commission opened an investigation into Keystone in 1962 after accusations that Ballard and Keystone had violated the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 and the Securities Act of 1933. The investigation centered around "manipulation and fraud."[16] The SEC completed its investigation in 1963. Keystone, with Ballard as the primary cause, was found to have violated the Securities Act of 1933 in the following charges: providing false statements to the SEC, and aiding and abetting Shasta Mineral and Chemical Company in making false statements that included misrepresenting the relationships of the Shasta officers with both Ballard and Keystone. The SEC revoked the broker-dealer registration of Keystone as a result.[17]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russel ... 0of%201933.

How funny this Valley Music Hall is noted as a highlight:
"One highlight of Ballard's business career was his presidency of the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful, Utah, which offered family entertainment. There Ballard worked with Art Linkletter, Danny Thomas, Bob Cummings, and other Hollywood celebrities who were advisers to the enterprise. Although the music hall failed financially, investors recovered their money when the LDS Church purchased the building."

That theater had a $1 million dollar operating loss in 1970. The church bailed him out of that mess or he would have been in real trouble with investors.
Go to 37 minute mark:

Getting his son in law to deal with his Tim Ballard investment isn't going to fool anyone.

I'm wondering if that's the place we meet for Stake Conferences in the Bountiful area. Close to 26th South by I-15.

I found this old address for VMH
835 North 400 East
North Salt Lake, Utah 84054

It's on the east side of the freeway by several car dealers and I think the first bountiful exit.
https://search.brave.com/search?q=Bount ... source=web

After the church bought it they renamed to the Bountiful Regional Center and re-dedicated in 1991 by Hinckley.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/1991/2/9/ ... ty-to-good

I thought it was interesting that this building was fire damaged in the 1970's. Or maybe it isn't interesting. Apparently, Ballard sold 600k shares at $1.25 each to fund construction of VMH. Then when it was bleeding cash he came up with a new business to rescue it selling records and scriptures. That was investigated by the FTC for doing shady things related to how much merch people had to buy I think. As far as I know Ballard was never disciplined for illegal business practices even though the SEC found enough to yank his license.

[larsenb]

How funny this Valley Music Hall is noted as a highlight:
"One highlight of Ballard's business career was his presidency of the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful, Utah, which offered family entertainment. There Ballard worked with Art Linkletter, Danny Thomas, Bob Cummings, and other Hollywood celebrities who were advisers to the enterprise. Although the music hall failed financially, investors recovered their money when the LDS Church purchased the building."

That theater had a $1 million dollar operating loss in 1970. The church bailed him out of that mess or he would have been in real trouble with investors.
Go to 37 minute mark:

Getting his son in law to deal with his Tim Ballard investment isn't going to fool anyone.

I'm wondering if that's the place we meet for Stake Conferences in the Bountiful area. Close to 26th South by I-15.

I found this old address for VMH
835 North 400 East
North Salt Lake, Utah 84054

It's on the east side of the freeway by several car dealers and I think the first bountiful exit.
https://search.brave.com/search?q=Bount ... source=web

After the church bought it they renamed to the Bountiful Regional Center and re-dedicated in 1991 by Hinckley.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/1991/2/9/ ... ty-to-good

I thought it was interesting that this building was fire damaged in the 1970's. Or maybe it isn't interesting. Apparently, Ballard sold 600k shares at $1.25 each to fund construction of VMH. Then when it was bleeding cash he came up with a new business to rescue it selling records and scriptures. That was investigated by the FTC for doing shady things related to how much merch people had to buy I think. As far as I know Ballard was never disciplined for illegal business practices even though the SEC found enough to yank his license.

Yup, that's our regional center. I wouldn't have dreamed that Danny Thomas, Art Linkletter and Bob Cummings had anything to do with the place . . . maybe even performed there?