LDS Freedom Forum

I'm not suggesting foul play, but this is very convenient timing. Did he mention being sick in his last talk? All I remember him saying is that his eyes were getting bad.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50784094/pr ... -at-age-95

Come on, the man was 95 years old! People that age die every day, it's just what happens.

peradventure “sorcery”, “φᾰρμᾰκείᾱ • (pharmakeíā)”, "pharmacy" .. pharmaceutical way of silencing used??
lifelong confidentiality .. ??

gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:39 am Come on, the man ways 95 years old! People that age die every day, it's just what happens.

It's just surprising to me considering he wasn't even in the general conference death chair yet.

He's also been frail and ailing, even before the Tim Ballard stuff.

I guess whenever any apostle dies now, there are those who will allege foul play.

Holland is also not well, and has been in and out of the hospital (like Ballard). When he dies, will it be because of the "musket fire" talk? The conspiracy theorists have eternally moving goalposts.

You know that Elder Ballard was embroiled in the Tim Ballard case, and was accused of delivering tithing records to OUR? I would like to think his death today has nothing to do with that accusation, but I am not so sure. I expect we will know if he was helped on his way, if that legal issue disappears.

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:46 am He's also been frail and ailing, even before the Tim Ballard stuff.

I guess whenever any apostle dies now, there are those who will allege foul play.

Holland is also not well, and has been in and out of the hospital (like Ballard). When he dies, will it be because of the "musket fire" talk? The conspiracy theorists have eternally moving goalposts.

No one alleged foul play, I'm just saying that it's convenient timing for both him and the church.

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:54 am

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:46 am He's also been frail and ailing, even before the Tim Ballard stuff.

I guess whenever any apostle dies now, there are those who will allege foul play.

Holland is also not well, and has been in and out of the hospital (like Ballard). When he dies, will it be because of the "musket fire" talk? The conspiracy theorists have eternally moving goalposts.

No one alleged foul play, I'm just saying that it's convenient timing for both him and the church.

Your sentence "I'm not suggesting foul play, but this is very convenient timing." would in fact seem to suggest the very thing you are saying you are not suggesting.

There have been enough urban rumors (which do have some validity IMO) to cause one to pause and question whenever anyone dies and has ties with the LDS org.

Dying suddenly at the age of 95 is not uncommon and I do not suspect foul play. I do suspect foul play in the passing of Ezra Taft Benson, however.

Mike

I love the precision in the description:

After a recent brief hospital stay, he returned to his home where he attended to duties as he was able to before passing away at approximately 11:15 p.m. on Sunday, November 12, 2023, surrounded by loved ones. He was 95.

I mean, if you are on your death-bed, what "duties" are you attending to? Besides saying goodbyes to your family.

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 8:14 am I love the precision in the description:

After a recent brief hospital stay, he returned to his home where he attended to duties as he was able to before passing away at approximately 11:15 p.m. on Sunday, November 12, 2023, surrounded by loved ones. He was 95.

I mean, if you are on your death-bed, what "duties" are you attending to? Besides saying goodbyes to your family.

"Before his passing, he dutifully bore testimony of our beloved prophet, Russell, even M. Nelson."

Clearly his COVID shot finally kicked in and and did the job.

At the risk of spreading urban legends, gossip or rumours. And I am not suggesting foul play.

Does anyone else remember a press conference or interview with President Nelson just after he was made president where he talked about the recent deaths in the 15? President Nelson said he was at the bed side of each of them as they passed away?

At the time I thought to myself that it was odd that he would rush to their homes in their final momnets, then it occured to me..."well he is a doctor, I wonder if he administered the hospice Morphine?"

Who is elevated to being Acting President of the Q12? Holland who is bad health. Then German with U.S.A. citizenship Uchtdorf.

WikiUp wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 8:38 am Who is elevated to being Acting President of the Q12?

Presumably Elder Holland.

That's really too bad. I would have loved to see that old con artist have to go through a deposition and a fraud trial. I guess he got off the hook one last time.

Sorry, if that doesn't sound generous. It's just that with everything coming out about Ballard and OUR and Russ Ballard and Gordon Bowen I was so hoping that MDG (modern day Gadianton) would get publicly exposed while he was still living.

Of course, now they're going to try to pin it all on him. This solves a world of problems for the MDGs.

gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 8:00 am

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:54 am

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:46 am He's also been frail and ailing, even before the Tim Ballard stuff.

I guess whenever any apostle dies now, there are those who will allege foul play.

Holland is also not well, and has been in and out of the hospital (like Ballard). When he dies, will it be because of the "musket fire" talk? The conspiracy theorists have eternally moving goalposts.

No one alleged foul play, I'm just saying that it's convenient timing for both him and the church.

Your sentence "I'm not suggesting foul play, but this is very convenient timing." would in fact seem to suggest the very thing you are saying you are not suggesting.

Well, considering the OUR scandal, which isn't going away, and the Gordon Bowen connection, it is very convenient. Even you have to recognize that.

.

WikiUp wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 8:50 am.

There's a lot of turnover coming. Uchtdorf is in good health (it appears) but is 83 years old. I think he may be president, but it's Bednar, just 71 years old, that is positioned to be the next long-term president.

He's given at least 3 "farewell" talks the last several conferences. He's the last of the old breed for me, IE called in the 1980's instead of the 1990's.

Edit: Nelson and Oaks were before him, but not in the Q12 so wasn't counting them.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think it’ll be interesting to see how things play out leadership wise. In a TBMs mind his passing would be associated with God’s will and that his mortal mission was completed and so forth.

Nelson 99
Oaks 91
Eyring 90
Holland 82
Uchtdorf 83
Bednar 71
Cook 83
Christofferson 78
Anderson 72
Rasband 72
Stevenson 68
Renlund 70
Gong 69
Soares 65

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 9:14 am Nelson 99
Oaks 91
Eyring 90
Holland 82
Uchtdorf 83
Bednar 71
Cook 83
Christofferson 78
Anderson 72
Rasband 72
Stevenson 68
Renlund 70
Gong 69
Soares 65

That’s crazy Nelson is 39 years older than the youngest apostle!

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 8:14 am I love the precision in the description:

After a recent brief hospital stay, he returned to his home where he attended to duties as he was able to before passing away at approximately 11:15 p.m. on Sunday, November 12, 2023, surrounded by loved ones. He was 95.

I mean, if you are on your death-bed, what "duties" are you attending to? Besides saying goodbyes to your family.

this sounds like hospice care. He went to the hospital. His condition was such that there was little they could do for him. He returned home to be with family during the final days of his life. Very normal. A sepsis condition. A cancer. An anueirism.