LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 3:16 pm**

BigFootCain wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 1:57 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 1:49 pm
Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 1:08 pm
Did he say why he wouldn’t send his own kids to BYU?
Wokeness, and snotty elitism of many students in the business school (he taught accounting, I think).

Peter Johnson actually scares me much, much less as far as "woke creep" than many others.
I knew Peter Johnson and worked with him more recently as he was an SP and Area Authority. His wife is really nice. I don't care for him at all. One of his daughters works at BYU as a DEI person in their athletics department. And she has made some fairly woke comments when people were talking about anti-racism. I hope he is not called as an apostle. In my opinion he has become like the rest of the corporate authorities.

I met him once several years ago before his call. He gave me his phone number and said we should talk; I texted him and never received a reply...who knows. Did he give me some bogus number, or did he just blow me off? Who knows.

Let's just say his answer regarding LGBTQ+ issues was very non-helpful and very "political". Things like "I think Pres. Nelson has clarified the Church's stance"...okay well what is that stance and how clarified? ....proceeds to do a little song and dance....

He was very "nice and polite" which is all that really seems to matter these days. Just be kind and it doesn't matter what you preach.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 3:36 pm**

BigFootCain wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 1:57 pm
I knew Peter Johnson and worked with him more recently as he was an SP and Area Authority. His wife is really nice. I don't care for him at all. One of his daughters works at BYU as a DEI person in their athletics department. And she has made some fairly woke comments when people were talking about anti-racism. I hope he is not called as an apostle. In my opinion he has become like the rest of the corporate authorities.

There has been a lot of water under the bridge over the last 20 years, for sure. I remember sitting in his living room, and he and his wife were desperately trying to get us to buy their house (a humble house, not a mansion by any means) to get us to stay in the ward. I think he had been hired at BYU. We were buying our first house, and had two small children and had outgrown our apartment. We couldn't afford to buy in Gilbert, and had to move where we could afford to buy a house. They were both really nice people.

Not to absolve him or them as parents, but woke children can only partially be laid at their feet. I know many good, conservative people whose children are wandering in the wilderness and chewing on husks until they (hopefully) get it together.

I'm sure he's "church broke" and would kiss the ring within the system, but all of them are that way. From a pure "he's a good guy" standpoint, he's a good guy.

He has quite the story about his faith journey (including dabbling with Nation of Islam before finding the gospel).

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 3:39 pm**

Ahmed Corbitt being brought in for cleanup duty with the Brad Wilcox incident was interesting. And then he was called soon after to be a 1Q70. I trust Corbitt less than Johnson.

We had an Arizona-wide youth broadcast during Covid, and Corbitt tried for a long time to get the tech working. He wanted to show us President Nelson linking arms with the NAACP president. It was cringe --- along the lines of "see, he has a black friend."

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 4:37 pm**

Christianlee wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 2:06 pm I am sure a good corporate yes man will be called. Race won’t really matter that much as long as a person has been allowed to climb the ladder.

yep, 2 europeans in the P70 where apostles are called from these days

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 4:52 pm**

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:45 am
gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:39 am Come on, the man ways 95 years old! People that age die every day, it's just what happens.
It's just surprising to me considering he wasn't even in the general conference death chair yet.

I expected Holland to go first…

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 4:56 pm**

gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:39 am Come on, the man was 95 years old! People that age die every day, it's just what happens.

As one or two others have said, I do not think he was murdered but his death comes at a convenient time. Maybe in actual fact it was the stress from the Tim Ballard business which finished him off.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 4:59 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 4:56 pm
gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:39 am Come on, the man was 95 years old! People that age die every day, it's just what happens.
As one or two others have said, I do not think he was murdered but his death comes at a convenient time. Maybe in actual fact it was the stress from the Tim Ballard business which finished him off.

Does this mean the matter is closed for the church

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:00 pm**

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 3:36 pm
BigFootCain wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 1:57 pm
I knew Peter Johnson and worked with him more recently as he was an SP and Area Authority. His wife is really nice. I don't care for him at all. One of his daughters works at BYU as a DEI person in their athletics department. And she has made some fairly woke comments when people were talking about anti-racism. I hope he is not called as an apostle. In my opinion he has become like the rest of the corporate authorities.
There has been a lot of water under the bridge over the last 20 years, for sure. I remember sitting in his living room, and he and his wife were desperately trying to get us to buy their house (a humble house, not a mansion by any means) to get us to stay in the ward. I think he had been hired at BYU. We were buying our first house, and had two small children and had outgrown our apartment. We couldn't afford to buy in Gilbert, and had to move where we could afford to buy a house. They were both really nice people.

Not to absolve him or them as parents, but woke children can only partially be laid at their feet. I know many good, conservative people whose children are wandering in the wilderness and chewing on husks until they (hopefully) get it together.

I'm sure he's "church broke" and would kiss the ring within the system, but all of them are that way. From a pure "he's a good guy" standpoint, he's a good guy.

He has quite the story about his faith journey (including dabbling with Nation of Islam before finding the gospel).

Tell me more about being "church broke".

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:00 pm**

Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:08 pm My money is on Ahmed Corbitt to replace Ballard. He's charismatic, black, and has a professional background at the UN.

No way.. you see how the other 11 treat Suarez?

Last October conference (a year ago) RMN walked down the row of apostles and shook everyone’s hand, until he got to within 5’ of Suarez. He stopped and gave him a tiny wave, turned around and went the other way.

Now, maybe Suarez was sick with a cold or something, and Rusty knew it.

At any rate, there wasn’t a warm embrace or handshake…. the optics didn’t look good

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:01 pm**

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 3:39 pm Ahmed Corbitt being brought in for cleanup duty with the Brad Wilcox incident was interesting. And then he was called soon after to be a 1Q70. I trust Corbitt less than Johnson.

We had an Arizona-wide youth broadcast during Covid, and Corbitt tried for a long time to get the tech working. He wanted to show us President Nelson linking arms with the NAACP president. It was cringe --- along the lines of "see, he has a black friend."

Tell me more about Ahmed Corbitt. What did he do with regard to the Brad Wilcox incident?

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:10 pm**

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 10:50 am Maybe the reason why our church leaders are old cob webs is because they can be killed off with no one suspecting foul play?

I think it's more basic than that. It evolved as a means of succession which came with some of the least conflict. Firstly, the new leader gets there by virtue of survival not partisan votes, and secondly, because they are elderly their term of office can be farily limited. People like RMN are the exception. In the case of the GAs, they come with a long track record, and do not rush into their positions. There is no sudden rise to the top, and those who are divisive or independent minded are often rooted out.

The Vatican votes for its leaders but has a complex method of doing so, during which the cardinals have to be shut in. The Anglican Communion has two worldly leaders, one of whom comes through primogeniture (the British monarch) and the other who is a political appointment. The Presbyterians vote for their leader but through a bigger group and the term limit of the Moderator is brief and not to be repeated. The Dalai and Panchen lamas are picked as children before they can form their own factions.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:13 pm**

Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 4:59 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 4:56 pm
gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:39 am Come on, the man was 95 years old! People that age die every day, it's just what happens.
As one or two others have said, I do not think he was murdered but his death comes at a convenient time. Maybe in actual fact it was the stress from the Tim Ballard business which finished him off.
Does this mean the matter is closed for the church

Of course not. But I think he was probably given a row for being involved in it. Their technique now would be to pin it on him and try and bury it with him.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:25 pm**

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 5:00 pm
Tell me more about being "church broke".

Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon, in some leaked video of informational sessions with the Brethren, jokingly referred to himself as "church broke" ---- by which he meant, broken like a horse is to the saddle. He meant to convey that he is 100% at their disposal, understands the ins and outs, etc. and they can count on him.

Elder Johnson has worked up the ranks from SP to AA to 1Q70, so he is certainly "church broke," as are all of the 70 and A70. I doubt there are any now who would be a dissenting vote about anything, but there used to be some. Think Mark E. Peterson and Delbert Stapley with the priesthood ban in 1978, for one (or Harold B. Lee, who said it would never happen while he was alive. He was right).

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:31 pm**

Arm Chair Quarterback wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 5:01 pm
Tell me more about Ahmed Corbitt. What did he do with regard to the Brad Wilcox incident?

Wilcox gave a fireside that caused a firestorm, in which he defended the priesthood ban and said that non-Mormons are only playing at church, like kids playing house. I didn't mind the message and text, though his speaking style isn't my favorite. People were calling for him to be fired from BYU, released from the Church YM presidency, forced to undergo a Stalinesque public confession, etc. Happily, he was retained and elevated from 2C to 1C in the YM presidency. The Black Menaces at BYU stormed his class and demanded a "dialogue," and he successfully convinced them to make an appointment for a later time, which to my knowledge never took place (happily).

He had other firesides scheduled after this, including one in Canada and another in California. Elder Corbitt, the other counselor in the YM presidency, accompanied him, and many felt that this would be the big reckoning. Corbitt did a good job of not getting too deep into it, expressing love and confidence in him, etc. Not long after this, he was elevated to 1Q70.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:35 pm**

JK4Woods wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 5:00 pm
Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:08 pm My money is on Ahmed Corbitt to replace Ballard. He's charismatic, black, and has a professional background at the UN.
No way.. you see how the other 11 treat Suarez?

Last October conference (a year ago) RMN walked down the row of apostles and shook everyone’s hand, until he got to within 5’ of Suarez. He stopped and gave him a tiny wave, turned around and went the other way.

Now, maybe Suarez was sick with a cold or something, and Rusty knew it.

At any rate, there wasn’t a warm embrace or handshake…. the optics didn’t look good

Its just white men being comfortable around other whites.
Obama did the same thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nopWOC4SRm4

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:37 pm**

JK4Woods wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 5:00 pm
Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:08 pm My money is on Ahmed Corbitt to replace Ballard. He's charismatic, black, and has a professional background at the UN.
No way.. you see how the other 11 treat Suarez?

Last October conference (a year ago) RMN walked down the row of apostles and shook everyone’s hand, until he got to within 5’ of Suarez. He stopped and gave him a tiny wave, turned around and went the other way.

Now, maybe Suarez was sick with a cold or something, and Rusty knew it.

At any rate, there wasn’t a warm embrace or handshake…. the optics didn’t look good

Suarez seems to me to be the most like a "Mensch" (kind, good guy). He was an accountant/auditor, which is a business background, but isn't from the Ivy League/medicine/law/academia/CES industrial complex. Of all of them, he seems like he could understand and empathize with Everyman.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 5:41 pm**

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:16 pm
They almost have to go black. First Apostle calling since BLM in 2020, first Apostle since 2018; lots of shift since 2018 5 years ago. And yet 3 years past BLM so they could do it now and not be called out for pandering. It wouldn't surprise me if someone else dies between now and this time next year; but anytime after now starts to get a little dicey politically b/c the heat will turn up on politics.

If they are going to do it; now is probably the best time for it over the next ~18months and potentially best time over the next 4-5 years. Get Trump in again and it could be potentially seen as anti-R....

Can you imagine people freaking out if its another white man from the intermountain west? The heads exploding would be awesome!

I think Nelson wants to keep it someone who's a scriptural literalist like he is. On that, I wholeheartedly agree.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 6:16 pm**

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 5:41 pm
spiritMan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:16 pm
They almost have to go black. First Apostle calling since BLM in 2020, first Apostle since 2018; lots of shift since 2018 5 years ago. And yet 3 years past BLM so they could do it now and not be called out for pandering. It wouldn't surprise me if someone else dies between now and this time next year; but anytime after now starts to get a little dicey politically b/c the heat will turn up on politics.

If they are going to do it; now is probably the best time for it over the next ~18months and potentially best time over the next 4-5 years. Get Trump in again and it could be potentially seen as anti-R....
Can you imagine people freaking out if its another white man from the intermountain west? The heads exploding would be awesome!

I think Nelson wants to keep it someone who's a scriptural literalist like he is. On that, I wholeheartedly agree.

What do you mean by a "scriptural literalist?"

(My money is also on a race-based, woke call to the 12, for the record.)

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 6:28 pm**

TwochurchesOnly wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:05 pm
gradles21 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:21 am I'm not suggesting foul play, but this is very convenient timing. Did he mention being sick in his last talk? All I remember him saying is that his eyes were getting bad.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50784094/pr ... -at-age-95
a TBM sibling sent text to me -- LDSdaily article
first photo is ballard standing in front of Vatican bldg --- hmmmm
next is a video (didn't bother to watch) still photo of ballard shaking hands with pope(aka his holiness) at the infamous
gathering of Q15 mtg with pope - for rome "temple"
the ldscorp is all about photo ops and idol statues that signal their total submission to UN, WEF, etc ad nauseum

That visit to the Vatican had masonry and secret combos written all over it. You can still find the newsroom article where it says the meeting was held for 33 minutes. Maybe these still photos of Ballard and the Pope are a wink and a nod to more nefarious intentions.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 6:37 pm**

J2 wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 6:16 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 5:41 pm
spiritMan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 12:16 pm
They almost have to go black. First Apostle calling since BLM in 2020, first Apostle since 2018; lots of shift since 2018 5 years ago. And yet 3 years past BLM so they could do it now and not be called out for pandering. It wouldn't surprise me if someone else dies between now and this time next year; but anytime after now starts to get a little dicey politically b/c the heat will turn up on politics.

If they are going to do it; now is probably the best time for it over the next ~18months and potentially best time over the next 4-5 years. Get Trump in again and it could be potentially seen as anti-R....
Can you imagine people freaking out if its another white man from the intermountain west? The heads exploding would be awesome!

I think Nelson wants to keep it someone who's a scriptural literalist like he is. On that, I wholeheartedly agree.
What do you mean by a "scriptural literalist?"

(My money is also on a race-based, woke call to the 12, for the record.)

President Nelson, despite being a heart surgeon, has always been strongly anti-Evolution and pro global Flood (with the whole earth being submerged, and only Noah and his extended family surviving). Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, Abraham, etc. --- all literally lived. Things like that.

I find it remarkable that, despite the rise of trendy podcast/influencer culture in the Church (with inane podcasts extolling metaphorical and allegorical scriptures), and despite waning belief in literal stuff in the Church, only the most abject literalness has ever been taught in magazines and manuals. I find that remarkable.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 7:07 pm**

laughing and mocking at a Man who had a lot of Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids is heartless.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 7:45 pm**

OCDMOM wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:07 pm laughing and mocking at a Man who had a lot of Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids is heartless.

I think Ballard was overall a pretty good guy. If you go back prior to roughly 2015ish time frame, most of his talks are really good, very moral talks. It's really only once Packard died that things started going off the rails.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 7:50 pm**

OCDMOM wrote: ↑November 13th, 2023, 7:07 pm laughing and mocking at a Man who had a lot of Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids is heartless.

I don't think anyone here is mocking President Ballard. Most of the discussion here has been about possible successors, and the possible direction the Church goes with certain losses and certain replacements in the quorum.

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 9:11 pm**

convenience ..
"Watch how a lizard cuts off its own tail to escape danger ..

another incidence of gospel fulness rejection prophecy fulfillment ..

"10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
" 3 nephi 16

Posted: **November 13th, 2023, 10:53 pm**

You dont need to wonder about his hospital stay:

On Nov 2 he posted this:

"Following a wonderful and inspiring general conference, last week I suddenly found myself in the hospital with respiratory issues. However, I have since been released from the hospital and returned home where I am attending to duties as I am able"

If it were me, 95 years old and my eyes practically non functional, and my lungs giving out, I think I would be praying for mercy from God to not draw it out further

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