LDS Freedom Forum

The way that this Ben fellow used Alma’s seed metaphor in chapter 32 to construe that he needs to explore homosexual relationships is scriptural antichrist-level stuff. Alma tells us what the seed is. It’s the word of God. It is not a fill-in-the-blank-for-whatever-argument-you-wish-to-support.

I don’t know what I’d do if I had to deal with this nonsense in church on Sundays. This is why I go to a Spanish ward, this wouldn’t stand there.

latterdayloco wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 6:48 pm The way that this Ben fellow used Alma’s seed metaphor in chapter 32 to construe that he needs to explore homosexual relationships is scriptural antichrist-level stuff. Alma tells us what the seed is. It’s the word of God. It is not a fill-in-the-blank-for-whatever-argument-you-wish-to-support.

I don’t know what I’d do if I had to deal with this nonsense in church on Sundays. This is why I go to a Spanish ward, this wouldn’t stand there.

The key is to respond in peace of the Lord. To not be angered - at least towards them. They are just overwhelmed by deception and lies. But when one speaks truth- it cuts- it is sharper than any two edged sword... you don't have to swing the blade hard, just speak it. If we do it in anger we begin to lose the battle. It's like little children when needing to correct them. We don't need to be emotional about it, but firm and direct and pure for their benefit, not because it bothers us. It allows us to teach truth in a pure way so when they walk away they don't have an excuse to justify their action and blame it on us for being "homophobes" or whatever else. In pureness of heart what we sow (using the seed metaphor, but in truth) it will place truht in them and poke their conscience and they won't be able to justify their actions. It is in Charity, its the only way.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:14 am

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 10:47 am

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 8:43 am
Homosexuals are worse than drug dealers. So I'm actually conflating drug dealers with homosexuals.

I think then that we ought to bring back the Mormon electro shock therapy to cure the faggories of their faggotry, and lesbies of their lesbianisms!
Maybe an annual purge?
Electro shock trucks patrolling the streets!
What say ye?

I say your disingenuous, putting up strawmen for your own agenda.

Drug dealers a can kill the body, but homosexuality kills the soul.

The scriptures do tell us how to judge sin it turns out.

Of course, an argument about homosexual love must always be diverted not with a strawman, but strawmen.

But I have done no such thing., let alone "argue".

Whoever derailed the thread to include drug dealers is responsible for that.

Now.
You will provide "scripture" telling us to judge one another.
I'm waiting.

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:20 am

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 10:47 am

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 8:43 am
Homosexuals are worse than drug dealers. So I'm actually conflating drug dealers with homosexuals.

I think then that we ought to bring back the Mormon electro shock therapy to cure the faggories of their faggotry, and lesbies of their lesbianisms!
Maybe an annual purge?
Electro shock trucks patrolling the streets!
What say ye?

Who said anything about electro-shock therapy? Electro-shock therapy was (and is-b/c it is STILL used) is absolutely barbaric.

If people really cared so much about electro-shock therapy they would advocate that it be completely banned; but they only bring it up b/c it was used against homosexuals decades ago....but who gives 2 flips about the FACT that is is STILL used by modern "doctors" today!!

Maybe you should actually look at who it is used against...or do you just care about being stylish and virtue signaling.

Who used it against homos?
And keep at the virtue signaling garbage. Go for it.
You'll be coping harder in no time.
Knave.

John Tavner wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 7:38 pm

latterdayloco wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 6:48 pm The way that this Ben fellow used Alma’s seed metaphor in chapter 32 to construe that he needs to explore homosexual relationships is scriptural antichrist-level stuff. Alma tells us what the seed is. It’s the word of God. It is not a fill-in-the-blank-for-whatever-argument-you-wish-to-support.

I don’t know what I’d do if I had to deal with this nonsense in church on Sundays. This is why I go to a Spanish ward, this wouldn’t stand there.

The key is to respond in peace of the Lord. To not be angered - at least towards them. They are just overwhelmed by deception and lies. But when one speaks truth- it cuts- it is sharper than any two edged sword... you don't have to swing the blade hard, just speak it. If we do it in anger we begin to lose the battle. It's like little children when needing to correct them. We don't need to be emotional about it, but firm and direct and pure for their benefit, not because it bothers us. It allows us to teach truth in a pure way so when they walk away they don't have an excuse to justify their action and blame it on us for being "homophobes" or whatever else. In pureness of heart what we sow (using the seed metaphor, but in truth) it will place truht in them and poke their conscience and they won't be able to justify their actions. It is in Charity, its the only way.

latterdayloco wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 6:48 pm The way that this Ben fellow used Alma’s seed metaphor in chapter 32 to construe that he needs to explore homosexual relationships is scriptural antichrist-level stuff. Alma tells us what the seed is. It’s the word of God. It is not a fill-in-the-blank-for-whatever-argument-you-wish-to-support.

I don’t know what I’d do if I had to deal with this nonsense in church on Sundays. This is why I go to a Spanish ward, this wouldn’t stand there.

"Ben used Alma's seed...."

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:11 pm

John Tavner wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 7:38 pm

latterdayloco wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 6:48 pm The way that this Ben fellow used Alma’s seed metaphor in chapter 32 to construe that he needs to explore homosexual relationships is scriptural antichrist-level stuff. Alma tells us what the seed is. It’s the word of God. It is not a fill-in-the-blank-for-whatever-argument-you-wish-to-support.

I don’t know what I’d do if I had to deal with this nonsense in church on Sundays. This is why I go to a Spanish ward, this wouldn’t stand there.

The key is to respond in peace of the Lord. To not be angered - at least towards them. They are just overwhelmed by deception and lies. But when one speaks truth- it cuts- it is sharper than any two edged sword... you don't have to swing the blade hard, just speak it. If we do it in anger we begin to lose the battle. It's like little children when needing to correct them. We don't need to be emotional about it, but firm and direct and pure for their benefit, not because it bothers us. It allows us to teach truth in a pure way so when they walk away they don't have an excuse to justify their action and blame it on us for being "homophobes" or whatever else. In pureness of heart what we sow (using the seed metaphor, but in truth) it will place truht in them and poke their conscience and they won't be able to justify their actions. It is in Charity, its the only way.

Is that laughing in agreement, disagreement? Mocking? I don't know. If you think it is foolishness, please explain why?

I agree if you are a laughing in agreement because of simplicity - God is incredible I will just use one scripture "JOhn 8 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”" it is receiving hte word of God and continuing in that word that we know truth and the Truth sets us free. And a reminder for others: James 1: 19My beloved brothers, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20for man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires. God truly is incredible- His loves His children and desires to bring them back, but it is the way we do it that matters otherwise we have a tendency to blaspheme His name.

Godislove wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 4:46 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 3:18 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 10:39 am "As I’ve been reflecting a lot on these crushes I’ve had throughout the years and the unhealthy ways that I’ve handled them. I’ve thought about Alma 32 and the invitation to plant a seed to see if it grows. When it comes to genuine love and connection with another man, I don’t know what would develop because I haven’t allowed myself agency to try it. "

The planting a seed metaphor is disturbing . . . .

As are many of the comments on the article. Have you read them?

Here's one such comment:

"If now (mortal existence) is the time for us to prepare to meet God, then why are you not seeking joy and happiness in this life now? Men (humans) are that they might have joy. And humans are not meant to be alone. You cannot come to God on judgement day all sad and lonely. I don't think that is coming "prepared" to meet Him. Now is the time to prepare. So please go find your life partner and experience the fullness of joy by having a companion you love and can share life with. Now is the time."

Religion is going to Hell. We know what is right. We may be forced to live within these religious structures to live out our own belief system. If you believe temple work is necessary for the highest Kingdom then you will just have to put up with the nonsense while being ready to defend true beliefs. We just can’t shut up when those true beliefs are attacked by falsehood from a person who has risen to the role of religious leader.

Jamescm wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 3:11 pm
But "be kind to yourself"?
…
People who do great things don't reach their capacity to do them while being "kind" to themselves.
…
... Okay, I'm done now. Sorry.

Epic Rant!
Don’t recant!

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:05 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:14 am

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 10:47 am

I think then that we ought to bring back the Mormon electro shock therapy to cure the faggories of their faggotry, and lesbies of their lesbianisms!
Maybe an annual purge?
Electro shock trucks patrolling the streets!
What say ye?

I say your disingenuous, putting up strawmen for your own agenda.

Drug dealers a can kill the body, but homosexuality kills the soul.

The scriptures do tell us how to judge sin it turns out.

Of course, an argument about homosexual love must always be diverted not with a strawman, but strawmen.

But I have done no such thing., let alone "argue". Sure you did. You brought up shock therapy as if it was something anyone here suggested or condoned. Just because someone on the past did that does not mean we agree. Also, it wasn't just homosexuals that received such poor treatment at the hands of backwards "science" so called.

Whoever derailed the thread to include drug dealers is responsible for that.

Now.
You will provide "scripture" telling us to judge one another. Dude. You are rude for demanding and not requesting. I will give you the scripture, but I won't likely answer you again. You are proving combative. Contentious. And you don't seem to be here for a discussion, but a fight.
I'm waiting.

Some answers in red above.

Sure. Matthew 7:1-3 JST. Judge a righteous judgement.

1. Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people.

2 Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment.

Later in the same chapter he tells them to call out the hypocritical church leaders.

Just because people like to take the scriptures out of context doesn't mean it is what Jesus said, just what they wish he said. We must judge in order for our our safety and salvation and those who are entrusted to our our care.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 12th, 2023, 1:19 pm

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:05 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:14 am

I say your disingenuous, putting up strawmen for your own agenda.

Drug dealers a can kill the body, but homosexuality kills the soul.

The scriptures do tell us how to judge sin it turns out.

Of course, an argument about homosexual love must always be diverted not with a strawman, but strawmen.

But I have done no such thing., let alone "argue". Sure you did. You brought up shock therapy as if it was something anyone here suggested or condoned. Just because someone on the past did that does not mean we agree. Also, it wasn't just homosexuals that received such poor treatment at the hands of backwards "science" so called.

Whoever derailed the thread to include drug dealers is responsible for that.

Now.
You will provide "scripture" telling us to judge one another. Dude. You are rude for demanding and not requesting. I will give you the scripture, but I won't likely answer you again. You are proving combative. Contentious. And you don't seem to be here for a discussion, but a fight.
I'm waiting.

Some answers in red above.

Sure. Matthew 7:1-3 JST. Judge a righteous judgement.

1. Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people.

2 Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment.

Later in the same chapter he tells them to call out the hypocritical church leaders.

Just because people like to take the scriptures out of context doesn't mean it is what Jesus said, just what they wish he said. We must judge in order for our our safety and salvation and those who are entrusted to our our care.

Right electro-shock is still used today:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK5 ... d%20nurses.

For psychiatric disorders it is termed like the following:

ECT is a relatively safe and low-risk procedure that is helpful in the treatment of depression, suicidality, severe psychosis, food refusal secondary to depression, and catatonia. It requires interprofessional care coordination among anesthesiologists, psychiatrists, and nurses. Most patients require several sessions to see a durable effect. The stigma associated with ECT is largely due to the lack of anesthesia with early treatments resulting in significant injury and severe memory loss. The antidepressant effect is seen relatively quickly and may last up to a few years. Overall, the mortality rate is very low with ECT administered in a controlled setting, but it continues to cause mild memory loss in the long term. ECT is commonly utilized in pregnant patients and the elderly due to the avoidance of psychotropic medication side effects. Although its mechanism of action is multifactorial, ECT causes changes in cerebral blood flow and regional metabolism.
---------------
In sum; it is a barbaric practice that was used to treat homosexuals and due to its used for homosexuals it is used as a weapon as to "look what they did to us!!!" even thought the exact same practice is still in use today . . . but it's used against the "right kind" of people so no one says anything against it.

John Tavner wrote: ↑November 12th, 2023, 7:22 am

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:11 pm

John Tavner wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 7:38 pm

The key is to respond in peace of the Lord. To not be angered - at least towards them. They are just overwhelmed by deception and lies. But when one speaks truth- it cuts- it is sharper than any two edged sword... you don't have to swing the blade hard, just speak it. If we do it in anger we begin to lose the battle. It's like little children when needing to correct them. We don't need to be emotional about it, but firm and direct and pure for their benefit, not because it bothers us. It allows us to teach truth in a pure way so when they walk away they don't have an excuse to justify their action and blame it on us for being "homophobes" or whatever else. In pureness of heart what we sow (using the seed metaphor, but in truth) it will place truht in them and poke their conscience and they won't be able to justify their actions. It is in Charity, its the only way.

Is that laughing in agreement, disagreement? Mocking? I don't know. If you think it is foolishness, please explain why?

I agree if you are a laughing in agreement because of simplicity - God is incredible I will just use one scripture "JOhn 8 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”" it is receiving hte word of God and continuing in that word that we know truth and the Truth sets us free. And a reminder for others: James 1: 19My beloved brothers, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20for man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires. God truly is incredible- His loves His children and desires to bring them back, but it is the way we do it that matters otherwise we have a tendency to blaspheme His name.

I can't remember.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 12th, 2023, 1:19 pm

ithink wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:05 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 11th, 2023, 11:14 am

I say your disingenuous, putting up strawmen for your own agenda.

Drug dealers a can kill the body, but homosexuality kills the soul.

The scriptures do tell us how to judge sin it turns out.

Of course, an argument about homosexual love must always be diverted not with a strawman, but strawmen.

But I have done no such thing., let alone "argue". Sure you did. You brought up shock therapy as if it was something anyone here suggested or condoned. Just because someone on the past did that does not mean we agree. Also, it wasn't just homosexuals that received such poor treatment at the hands of backwards "science" so called.

Whoever derailed the thread to include drug dealers is responsible for that.

Now.
You will provide "scripture" telling us to judge one another. Dude. You are rude for demanding and not requesting. I will give you the scripture, but I won't likely answer you again. You are proving combative. Contentious. And you don't seem to be here for a discussion, but a fight.
I'm waiting.

Some answers in red above.

Sure. Matthew 7:1-3 JST. Judge a righteous judgement.

1. Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people.

2 Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment.

Later in the same chapter he tells them to call out the hypocritical church leaders.

Just because people like to take the scriptures out of context doesn't mean it is what Jesus said, just what they wish he said. We must judge in order for our our safety and salvation and those who are entrusted to our our care.

Your reading comprehensions skills are abysmal.
Anyway.
Are you game for me to pronounce a righteous judgment on you?

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 4:32 pm He says you must love yourself in order to, and before, you can love others.

This is a lie. It leads to self loathing.

People don't like selfish people. If you are selfish, you will not like yourself.

Just curious, how do you jump from loving yourself to being selfish, how do you substitute a good thing with a bad thing?

If one is being selfish, one is not loving oneself. Loving yourself is doing what benefits you the most and being selfless is what benefits you the most. Submitting yourself to God's will is loving yourself, because that is how you truly elevate yourself and then in turn how you can better help others.

I'm assuming you were talking about the worldly corrupted version of love, but I'm pretty sure when the Savior talks about love, he is referring to love that is not corrupted.