LDS Freedom Forum

https://apnews.com/article/mormon-sex-a ... f222c35e7e

“On Friday, Nov. 3, 2023, an Arizona Superior Court judge dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that Paul Adams, a parishioner, was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.”

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims.”

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:42 pm https://apnews.com/article/mormon-sex-a ... f222c35e7e

“On Friday, Nov. 3, 2023, an Arizona Superior Court judge dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that Paul Adams, a parishioner, was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.”

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims.”

Why is there no concern for the child?

Fred wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:58 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:42 pm https://apnews.com/article/mormon-sex-a ... f222c35e7e

“On Friday, Nov. 3, 2023, an Arizona Superior Court judge dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that Paul Adams, a parishioner, was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.”

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims.”

Why is there no concern for the child?

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

If they were with Christ they’d know every time they turn their back on a child or offend one they’ve offended the kingdom of god. But they can’t see this because their minds are blinded by Satan — their god. That is what *I believe* is going on.

The vast majority of the Bishops that I've known are good guys, I'm sure some of them are devastated when Kirton McConkie and the Stake President tells them not to go to the police. I know for me if a grown man confessed to me that he is raping his children it would take all of my power to not pull out my 9mm and work on my double tap, and if i were able to restrain myself i would be dialing 9-1-1 before he even left my office, screw KM and the SP.

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 6:51 am The vast majority of the Bishops that I've known are good guys, I'm sure some of them are devastated when Kirton McConkie and the Stake President tells them not to go to the police. I know for me if a grown man confessed to me that he is raping his children it would take all of my power to not pull out my 9mm and work on my double tap, and if i were able to restrain myself i would be dialing 9-1-1 before he even left my office, screw KM and the SP.

Having served as a bishop and having to deal with this issue, I found the opposite was true. I was unequivocally instructed to go to the police if I hadn't already done so (I had). The church legal people were very helpful and acted swiftly and decisively.
I can't fault them.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 9:41 am

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 6:51 am The vast majority of the Bishops that I've known are good guys, I'm sure some of them are devastated when Kirton McConkie and the Stake President tells them not to go to the police. I know for me if a grown man confessed to me that he is raping his children it would take all of my power to not pull out my 9mm and work on my double tap, and if i were able to restrain myself i would be dialing 9-1-1 before he even left my office, screw KM and the SP.

Having served as a bishop and having to deal with this issue, I found the opposite was true. I was unequivocally instructed to go to the police if I hadn't already done so (I had). The church legal people were very helpful and acted swiftly and decisively.
I can't fault them.

There is a very clear reason why different bishops are given different counsel by the church lawyers. It depends on where you live. If your location, in this case Arizona, recognizes LDS clergy-penitent privilege then the lawyers are allowed to tell you to keep the confession confidential. If your location doesn’t recognize LDS clergy-penitent privilege then they must counsel you to go to the police.

However, I have a glaring problem with this. Just because Arizona or some other locality make it legal for a bishop to keep his mouth shut, it does NOT require him to do so. That is up to the church. It is the LDS legal team in Salt Lake that is hiding the abuse, not any law passed by Arizona.

Arizona states that clergy MAY keep the secret, not that they MUST. The Church can choose to counsel either way. The Church in this case chose to allow two different bishops to keep this man’s secret for years, causing another baby to be abused by him, and the abuse didn’t stop until the perp offed himself.

Despicable Klown Church.

Fred wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:58 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:42 pm https://apnews.com/article/mormon-sex-a ... f222c35e7e

“On Friday, Nov. 3, 2023, an Arizona Superior Court judge dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that Paul Adams, a parishioner, was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.”

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims.”

Why is there no concern for the child?

Nowhere. I don't know about anyone else, but I believe Jesus would not release a press statement, saying that, "We are pleased with the court's decision.” The 2nd daughter was 6-weeks old.

Just sad and despicable.
I don’t understand it. I guess the church only cares about legal this and legal that. Not actually caring about the welfare of souls.
Was it in the best interest of Paul Adams for the bishop to not report it? No! Absolutely not! It allowed him to not repent, and to continue to heap sins upon himself! Where on earth does it say bishops should do that?!
Nowhere! And it certainly was not in the best interest of the children he was abusing, obviously.

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 12:32 pm

Fred wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:58 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:42 pm https://apnews.com/article/mormon-sex-a ... f222c35e7e

“On Friday, Nov. 3, 2023, an Arizona Superior Court judge dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that Paul Adams, a parishioner, was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.”

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims.”

Why is there no concern for the child?

Nowhere. I don't know about anyone else, but I believe Jesus would not release a press statement, saying that, "We are pleased with the court's decision.” The 2nd daughter was 6-weeks old.

It really is disgusting the glibness and avoidance of any responsibility to regulate/reform the system the church is taking. They only care to cover their you-know-what.

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 6:51 am The vast majority of the Bishops that I've known are good guys, I'm sure some of them are devastated when Kirton McConkie and the Stake President tells them not to go to the police. I know for me if a grown man confessed to me that he is raping his children it would take all of my power to not pull out my 9mm and work on my double tap, and if i were able to restrain myself i would be dialing 9-1-1 before he even left my office, screw KM and the SP.

The vast majority I've known are well intentioned but lack so much discernment and backbone they almost always do whatever the corporate side of the church tells them to with very little push back if any. I believe the corporate church *ACTIVELY* selects and filters for men like this, as in "church broke' and do as their told types. I know some personally.

It's mean to say but too many of them are what the CIA would call "useful idiots". They are usually accomplished career wise but they are that way because they're 'yes men'. They're not like Jesus in this regard.

They're useful because they're easy to manipulate, like the bishop in the abuse case, and idiots because they'll actually take the fall for the church's corporate agendas without thinking or consulting the scriptures or common sense!

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 12:32 pm

Fred wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:58 pm

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 6:42 pm https://apnews.com/article/mormon-sex-a ... f222c35e7e

“On Friday, Nov. 3, 2023, an Arizona Superior Court judge dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that Paul Adams, a parishioner, was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.”

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims.”

Why is there no concern for the child?

Nowhere. I don't know about anyone else, but I believe Jesus would not release a press statement, saying that, "We are pleased with the court's decision.” The 2nd daughter was 6-weeks old.

The church statement is disgusting. Not the slightest amount of concern for the victims. They seem to only care about their money and their image.

I wonder if the judge is Mormon.

The time to leave the church is NOW!!!

Especially for anyone who’s looking to protect their children. The church will always choose itself over the safety and wellbeing of your child.

I wish I had the ability to hang a giant millstone from the spire of the SLC temple. If the church is "pleased", there ain't really much left to say on the matter. No man can serve two masters. The church has chosen theirs.

“In a prepared statement, the church said, “We are pleased with the Arizona Superior Court’s decision granting summary judgment for the Church and its clergy and dismissing the plaintiffs’ claims. Contrary to some news reports and exaggerated allegations, the court found that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its clergy handled this matter consistent with Arizona law.”

I accidentally left that part out in the original post. I wonder what it means. Contrary to some news reports and Exaggerated allegations? She was 6 weeks old. You hid this. What are the exaggerated allegations, church?

It’s easy to see what the church is doing with their press release yesterday one day after the AP news article…
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ef-society

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 4:39 am It’s easy to see what the church is doing with their press release yesterday one day after the AP news article…
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ef-society

IMG_4869.jpeg

Look! We're feeding them! With tithing money!

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 9:41 am

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 6:51 am The vast majority of the Bishops that I've known are good guys, I'm sure some of them are devastated when Kirton McConkie and the Stake President tells them not to go to the police. I know for me if a grown man confessed to me that he is raping his children it would take all of my power to not pull out my 9mm and work on my double tap, and if i were able to restrain myself i would be dialing 9-1-1 before he even left my office, screw KM and the SP.

Having served as a bishop and having to deal with this issue, I found the opposite was true. I was unequivocally instructed to go to the police if I hadn't already done so (I had). The church legal people were very helpful and acted swiftly and decisively.
I can't fault them.

You can really look at this case and NOT FAULT THE BISHOPS?

That's incredibly impressive.

As a bishop I learned of serious abuse and immediately called the police and kept the mother and children with me until they arrived. After this fact I called KM and the suit on the other end of the phone actually asked me why I hadn't called them first, before calling the police.

“When the culture of any organization mandates that it is more important to protect the reputation of a system and those in power than it is to protect the basic human dignity of the individuals who serve that system or who are served by that system, you can be certain that the shame is systemic, the money is driving ethics, and the accountability is all but dead.” ‘Braving the Wilderness’ by Brene Brown

“Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.”
H.L. Mencken

A facade exists to deceive the believers and the world at large. Mormonism is rotten to the core.

Protect the corporation at all costs.

LDS Physician wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 5:14 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 9:41 am

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 6:51 am The vast majority of the Bishops that I've known are good guys, I'm sure some of them are devastated when Kirton McConkie and the Stake President tells them not to go to the police. I know for me if a grown man confessed to me that he is raping his children it would take all of my power to not pull out my 9mm and work on my double tap, and if i were able to restrain myself i would be dialing 9-1-1 before he even left my office, screw KM and the SP.

Having served as a bishop and having to deal with this issue, I found the opposite was true. I was unequivocally instructed to go to the police if I hadn't already done so (I had). The church legal people were very helpful and acted swiftly and decisively.
I can't fault them.

You can really look at this case and NOT FAULT THE BISHOPS?

That's incredibly impressive.

As a bishop I learned of serious abuse and immediately called the police and kept the mother and children with me until they arrived. After this fact I called KM and the suit on the other end of the phone actually asked me why I hadn't called them first, before calling the police.

Why don't you read what I said? I had always assumed English was your first language. I said I couldn't fault the church legal team I dealt with. It's called context.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 7:55 am

LDS Physician wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 5:14 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 9:41 am

Having served as a bishop and having to deal with this issue, I found the opposite was true. I was unequivocally instructed to go to the police if I hadn't already done so (I had). The church legal people were very helpful and acted swiftly and decisively.
I can't fault them.

You can really look at this case and NOT FAULT THE BISHOPS?

That's incredibly impressive.

As a bishop I learned of serious abuse and immediately called the police and kept the mother and children with me until they arrived. After this fact I called KM and the suit on the other end of the phone actually asked me why I hadn't called them first, before calling the police.

Why don't you read what I said? I had always assumed English was your first language. I said I couldn't fault the church legal team I dealt with. It's called context.

Oooooo! I read your comment too quickly before I knee-jerked into a shocked state. My apologies, brother!

*kicks self*

LDS Physician wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 8:22 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 7:55 am

LDS Physician wrote: ↑November 10th, 2023, 5:14 am

You can really look at this case and NOT FAULT THE BISHOPS?

That's incredibly impressive.

As a bishop I learned of serious abuse and immediately called the police and kept the mother and children with me until they arrived. After this fact I called KM and the suit on the other end of the phone actually asked me why I hadn't called them first, before calling the police.

Why don't you read what I said? I had always assumed English was your first language. I said I couldn't fault the church legal team I dealt with. It's called context.

Oooooo! I read your comment too quickly before I knee-jerked into a shocked state. My apologies, brother!

*kicks self*

No problem mate.

Mamabear wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 2:39 pm I wonder if the judge is Mormon.

Probably. Too bad he was not the original Mormon.

I wonder what would happen if a ward financial clerk or an Ensign Peak employee was stealing money from the church a little at a time and it’s never discovered. He later privately confesses his crimes to his bishop. Is this information protected by the seal of the confessional or is he reported to the church and the police?