“Why I was released early from the High Council” (video)

[Magus]

But he told people to follow him, not the people who corrupted it. If people are corrupting the church now why should we follow them? Staying in the church must not require following corrupt men. Those corrupt men kick people out of the church if they question them publicly. Instead of kicking Jesus out of the church or Jesus leaving the men of his time just killed him. Had Jesus lived decades after this do you think he would have stayed in their church?

He didn't leave it then.

The thought just occurred to me that I'm assuming he didn't leave. I don't know if he did or not. It seems rather obvious that if he said follow Him then he probably didn't want people following the existing church or its leaders. How could members follow both? Do any Jews think Jesus was a member in good standing when he was tortured and killed by church leaders?

Do you really think the Savior wanted anything to do with the corrupt church at the time? His name may have been on the rolls but I don't think he considered Himself a member of their church. That is my opinion. I think Jesus would say the same to some of the leaders of this church as they preach repentance while they charge fees to enter opulent houses of the Lord. These men openly teach false doctrine while sustaining one another.

So what are we to do? Stay in the church and do our usual and wait for God or does God want us involved in keeping His house orderly? Surely God sees the starving child and for some reason he relies on us to do something about this. And yet some people think God would watch a child die but he wouldn't let His church crumble through our inaction. The BOM tells us the church the modern church will crumble and warns those who will say all is well in Zion.

I think Jesus, during his mortal life, was in the church. People called him "rabbi." He attended the temple and even cleansed it. It wasn't all of Judaism that was against him - just particular people within the sect of the Pharisees. His trial was even done covertly in the middle of night so they could get away with it. There were a lot of people who did not want to crucify him, who were Jews. I feel he was a reformer (and of course, a fulfiller).

After his resurrection, he directed the apostles and things began to slowly change into the formation of a new church - BUT- remember that Christianity doesn't really claim to be a new church. It claims to be the continuation of God's church after Christ came and fulfilled the law. So really, the Pharisees and Jews left the Church, not the Christians. The Christians continued it.

[Magus]

I was released as the EQ Pres once i made my views known to my bishop.

Do you mind sharing what those views are?

I told him that this was going to be the worst PR disaster ever in church history. He said that Pres Nelson was a doctor and in position to know these things and he now had direction on what to do. That ended our discussion. The more i thought about the letter the more angry i became. I was hurt and felt betrayed by those that i thought I could trust.

I'm sorry for what you went through. To think that the Church could have avoided all of this unnecessary drama by staying out of it and allowing people to govern themselves....I understand some sort of statement was necessary by them, but we could have done without over-kill.

[Magus]

I have a hard time going to church now, its constant hero worship. Today was HC Sunday, no mention of the Savior, lots of worship of Elder Uchdorf.

Oof, yeah, I relate.

People worship the gods that are real to them....

The culture of prophet-worship in our church has always been off-putting and more should be done to dissuade it. I respect RMN, for example, I think he's a good guy, I sustain him, I sustain his mantle - but he can't hold a candle to Joseph Smith, let alone the Savior Jesus Christ.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I respect RMN, for example, I think he's a good guy, I sustain him, I sustain his mantle - but he can't hold a candle to Joseph Smith, let alone the Savior Jesus Christ.

Does your sustaining align w/ his definition of sustain? Do you make an "oath-like indication" that his calling as a prophet is "binding" upon you? When men pass off such blatant falsehoods I do not respect them. I can pray for them, but I believe their actions and teachings are nefarious.

[JuneBug12000]

My daughter was asked to talk on Sunday and said yes. Then the bishop told her the topic was tithing.

My husband and I just found out yesterday and our whole family is in something of an uproar.

My husband doesn't want her to give the talk. He wants to lay stuff out for the bishop in a text and maybe a meeting.

My daughter wants to give the talk. Avoid the word tithing and just quote Jesus on giving to the poor.

I would be happy to help my daughter tell the whole truth with scriptures and quotes from the prophets about the true doctrine, not the current policy.

But, I'm ok if my husband feels strongly that she should just not give it.

One of my older boys is worried about community, as is my husband, and wants us to just let her give the talk on giving she wants and avoid taking about tithing.

My husband also sees this as an opportunity to squash any discussions tithing settlement and baptizing our daughter next month. Neither of which he wants.

He also wants to talk with the bishop more about how things were handled with our son's mission. The problem is, we are preaching to the choir in the topic. The bishops son was sent home a week before ours in similar circumstances, so he totally gets those feelings and concerns.

What a mess.

I keep feeling we really are living in similar circumstances to the church in Jesus day. It started fine until men got in there and messed it up. Now the righteous meet in the wilderness while the wicked judge the righteous. And all the righteous can do is wait for the Lord to come clean it up.




.

UPDATE: My husband sent a text and let the bishop know my daughter would not be giving a talk on tithing.

He said we could not support the organization nor encourage others to do so.

He gave a little more explanation to where we are at on our journey.

The bishop did not answer the text.

We stayed home on Sunday.

Nor sure where things go from here..

[Chip]

My daughter was asked to talk on Sunday and said yes. Then the bishop told her the topic was tithing.

My husband and I just found out yesterday and our whole family is in something of an uproar.

My husband doesn't want her to give the talk. He wants to lay stuff out for the bishop in a text and maybe a meeting.

My daughter wants to give the talk. Avoid the word tithing and just quote Jesus on giving to the poor.

I would be happy to help my daughter tell the whole truth with scriptures and quotes from the prophets about the true doctrine, not the current policy.

But, I'm ok if my husband feels strongly that she should just not give it.

One of my older boys is worried about community, as is my husband, and wants us to just let her give the talk on giving she wants and avoid taking about tithing.

My husband also sees this as an opportunity to squash any discussions tithing settlement and baptizing our daughter next month. Neither of which he wants.

He also wants to talk with the bishop more about how things were handled with our son's mission. The problem is, we are preaching to the choir in the topic. The bishops son was sent home a week before ours in similar circumstances, so he totally gets those feelings and concerns.

What a mess.

I keep feeling we really are living in similar circumstances to the church in Jesus day. It started fine until men got in there and messed it up. Now the righteous meet in the wilderness while the wicked judge the righteous. And all the righteous can do is wait for the Lord to come clean it up.




.

UPDATE: My husband sent a text and let the bishop know my daughter would not be giving a talk on tithing.

He said we could not support the organization nor encourage others to do so.

He gave a little more explanation to where we are at on our journey.

The bishop did not answer the text.

We stayed home on Sunday.

Nor sure where things go from here..

The leaders will never ask for explanation from members declining to teach or talk because they don't want to partake in lies. You'd think they'd be provoked into inquiring what the heck the member is talking about, but they never have, in my experience - just a polite backing away, if anything. Never a discussion. I think it's because they know what's wrong, but don't want to have to forsake their position because they love the honor of men more than truth, more than Jesus.

[Seed Starter]

My daughter was asked to talk on Sunday and said yes. Then the bishop told her the topic was tithing.

My husband and I just found out yesterday and our whole family is in something of an uproar.

My husband doesn't want her to give the talk. He wants to lay stuff out for the bishop in a text and maybe a meeting.

My daughter wants to give the talk. Avoid the word tithing and just quote Jesus on giving to the poor.

I would be happy to help my daughter tell the whole truth with scriptures and quotes from the prophets about the true doctrine, not the current policy.

But, I'm ok if my husband feels strongly that she should just not give it.

One of my older boys is worried about community, as is my husband, and wants us to just let her give the talk on giving she wants and avoid taking about tithing.

My husband also sees this as an opportunity to squash any discussions tithing settlement and baptizing our daughter next month. Neither of which he wants.

He also wants to talk with the bishop more about how things were handled with our son's mission. The problem is, we are preaching to the choir in the topic. The bishops son was sent home a week before ours in similar circumstances, so he totally gets those feelings and concerns.

What a mess.

I keep feeling we really are living in similar circumstances to the church in Jesus day. It started fine until men got in there and messed it up. Now the righteous meet in the wilderness while the wicked judge the righteous. And all the righteous can do is wait for the Lord to come clean it up.




.

UPDATE: My husband sent a text and let the bishop know my daughter would not be giving a talk on tithing.

He said we could not support the organization nor encourage others to do so.

He gave a little more explanation to where we are at on our journey.

The bishop did not answer the text.

We stayed home on Sunday.

Nor sure where things go from here..

Silence seems pretty typical when it comes to things like this. I wonder if he'll invite you both or just leave it. Glad to hear you were direct.

[PaulH]

Do you mind sharing what those views are?

I told him that this was going to be the worst PR disaster ever in church history. He said that Pres Nelson was a doctor and in position to know these things and he now had direction on what to do. That ended our discussion. The more i thought about the letter the more angry i became. I was hurt and felt betrayed by those that i thought I could trust.

I'm sorry for what you went through. To think that the Church could have avoided all of this unnecessary drama by staying out of it and allowing people to govern themselves....I understand some sort of statement was necessary by them, but we could have done without over-kill.

I think that they should have kept silent, or at the very least not chosen sides, and let people make their own decisions. But when you sell out to evil, you do what evil requires. I don't believe they made a "mistake". They knew what they were doing.

They (Q15) are stuck between a rock and a hard place. One one hand if they made a mistake, they cant admit it because they can "see around corners" and "the Lord wont let them lead the people astray" etc. On the other hand, they are in it up to their neck and are serving their master. Their outright stupidity of making these statements has backed them into a corner. Its a no win situation.

Its the age of information. Church statements can be verified pretty easily, and they continue to tell lies to this day. It appears that the church has hired Baghdad Bob to run the PR dept.

[Reluctant Watchman]

FYI, the video in the OP got some good traction online. Over 10k+ views. The comment section is worth a few minutes to read.

[Reluctant Watchman]

@carolynpassey624
Seven years ago we had a chat with our bishop over our concerns about tithing when our son lost his job. He asked the bishop for food from the storehouse and was refused because he wasn’t active. We were obligated to help him in his need so our tithing went directly to him . The bishop took our recommends and we have never looked back. Our journey out of the church has blessed our lives. Our spiritual journey is one of complete freedom of choice and accountability. Our integrity is intact. Bless you on your journey .

@leahcarter6618
We are on the same path. We didn’t feel right about what the church was doing with our tithing. When the SEC story broke last spring we stopped paying our tithing to the church. It is a hard road but I’m sure you will find a lot of support. Many people are waking up to the corruption within the church. We are in Utah as well.

@jenawilson7242
There has been a time in my life when I had 4 young children and no child support. I was making 800.00 a month. I needed help paying my rent. My bishop told me he would help one time. I found out that it was up to me alone to support my family, so I worked 2 jobs for a time. Whats up with a church so rich they couldn't help me?

@LC-md2rq
This is a situation that isn’t going to disappear. How can they take money from struggling young families, who cannot make monthly costs of living as it is? I’ve seen families pay in for years, then be turned down when they needed help desperately, it’s time to wake up

@Teresamaisey76
My husband and I stopped paying for this very reason.... we got our temple recommends taken away... but we now know we don't have to pay the church for salvation.

@cdub7190
We have had similar experiences regarding tithing and other policies within the church. I’ve served in three bishoprics and once as bishop. I was recently serving on the high council when many of these things came to the forefront. Subsequently I was released from my high council calling being unable to reconcile what the Lord is directing me to do and the path the church has chosen. My heart goes out to you but in the end it was only ever between you and the Lord anyway.

Following Christ is so much more important than following policies developed by men.

@lorawhitfield6995
Much respect to you! I can tell you didn’t come to this decision lightly. I am actually a recent exmo and stopping paying tithing a few years ago and instead chose where and how I wanted to give back and pour into my community. It felt right and I was completely at peace with that decision. Other things along the way have led me out of the church but not away from God. I respect everyone’s journey and I appreciate you sharing your story. I’m sure it will help many who may be struggling.

@boysrus61
You are saying exactly what I have been thinking for the past 2 years. I asked my friend who continues to pay tithes to the Church what will she say to God if He called her a robber for not paying tithes to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and succor the poor. How can she say she pays her tithes when the leaders of the church take her offering and put it in a stock fund? Is she being a good steward of her talents? We will be held accountable for where our tithes go and until the Church becomes more transparent on where all the money goes, we should pay it to places that do the Charity we support.

@paysonstudios
God bless you! I wish I had your courage. My family wouldn't understand. I am caught between my own personal integrity and the love of my family. Since I'm not a person of means anymore, and have had little to no "increase" for over a decade, I give what I can to street people and the homeless. I'm saddened by the plight of the downtrodden and ever growing homeless population in Utah. I'm also aware that the church has largely turned a blind eye to the needy right under their nose. 150+ billion of accumulated liquid assets is unconscionable. As a former ward financial clerk in a wealthy ward, I have seen things first hand on the local level. The real power for change is when we do exactly as you have done. I applaud your courage and integrity. You have made a difference to me. Thank you.

@sharondunstall709
I can tell from your video that you do not make rash decisions, nor do you take them lightly. A lot of thought, scripture study and prayer went into this. We are taught to weigh things out in our minds, to ponder them, and then ask with a sincere heart for confirmation. You took your concerns to the Lord, as each of us should do, and the spirit enlightened your mind with the answer. I applaud you and your wife for truly desiring to serve the Lord, to follow the teachings of our Saviour, and to meet the needs of your fellow men. May you and your family be blessed as you continue to be an example to us all.

There are dozens more like these.

[TwochurchesOnly]

FYI, the video in the OP got some good traction online. Over 10k+ views. The comment section is worth a few minutes to read.

An hour later, still reading comments ! thank you