“Why I was released early from the High Council” (video)

[Reluctant Watchman]

To share with everyone his “personal revelation “ and give it as God spoke to him and the answer he got was it didn’t matter. Why would God “talk to him” if it didn’t matter. This gentleman is intelligent and charismatic. So yes whether his agenda is righteous or not he is not just storytelling he has an agenda.

If meddling for good is considered an “agenda”, well, I say we need more of it.

If I were you, I would have raised my concerns and expressed my opinions anonymously on the internet but stayed in the Church. Like started a YouTube channel or something or something like your website.

In fact, I may do that someday, lol.

But that way, no uppity Stake Prez could ex me.

Just speaking for myself.

Why stay with a church when I think they are spiritually and physically abusing the members? And, mind you, there is no way in hell they'll relinquish their "keys and authority" to some peon who disagrees with doctrine. They erroneously think they speak for the Lord. It literally says in the handbook that I either shut up or they excommunicate me. Not a place I want to be.

[Magus]

Is it your belief, however, that he would have needed a temple recommend at some point in his life in order to be worthy of exaltation? (Having received the exalting ordinances)

No, I don't know why anyone would need a current piece of paper from their bishop and stake president to be worthy of exaltation, having already received their ordinances and living their life righteously.

Thanks; was just trying to understand your position better.

But for anyone to have received those ordinances at all, they would’ve been required to have that piece of paper at some point, no? I only point it out because while this treatment may not impact this guy in that regard, what about all those that haven’t received those ordinances yet, but may see it the same way as him? Maybe his children don’t get that paper because they see it the same way — supposedly, no exaltation for them.

You have a valid concern - if I were those kids, I'd just do what I need to to get the recommend so I can get my ordinances done.

Tbh, I have been growing to dislike the whole concept of a temple recommend. It feels like gate keeping to me at this point....and maybe not in the best, most productive way. I'd rather they let my worthiness be strictly between me and the Lord.

[Magus]

I think he got an answer, it just seems to me like he probably misinterpreted it.

Or not.

well - say the Church was running everything how you think it's supposed to.

Is it the rule to pay your tithe to the church or not?

[RTStone]

...Yet, as soon as the mask insanity was lifted and we returned to our ward we were immediately given new callings, including a stake assignment no less. However, leadership offered no apologies and no regrets for what had happened...

The example of the Q15 has created a type of psychosis in downstream leaders.

For the welfare of the body, these phonies need to be abandoned post-haste. What they are up to now is crapping on the legacy of their more-legitmate predecessors, like Ezra Taft Benson, who they don't want you to study, because he warned about the pit these phonies have dragged the church into. The phonies are now guided by their worldly concerns, having amassed so much money. They are not shepherding the flock, like they are supposed to.

ETF also died as a multi-millionaire. I use to really like him until I found that out. If you are a GA you are on the gravy train to riches.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I think he got an answer, it just seems to me like he probably misinterpreted it.

Or not.

well - say the Church was running everything how you think it's supposed to.
Is it the rule to pay your tithe to the church or not?

We've already established it is a lower law. And, it is taught incorrectly. And the church is corrupt in how they use the funds. You tell me if the Lord simply wants me to pay my dues and shut up, ignoring any accountability or transparency on the part of the corporation, I mean, church.

[Magus]

Or not.

well - say the Church was running everything how you think it's supposed to.
Is it the rule to pay your tithe to the church or not?

We've already established it is a lower law. And, it is taught incorrectly. And the church is corrupt in how they use the funds. You tell me if the Lord simply wants me to pay my dues and shut up, ignoring any accountability or transparency on the part of the corporation, I mean, church.

I dunno what the Lord wants except obedience to his will. Whatever that is in any particular case. I know you have your reasoning.

[Magus]

...Yet, as soon as the mask insanity was lifted and we returned to our ward we were immediately given new callings, including a stake assignment no less. However, leadership offered no apologies and no regrets for what had happened...

The example of the Q15 has created a type of psychosis in downstream leaders.

For the welfare of the body, these phonies need to be abandoned post-haste. What they are up to now is crapping on the legacy of their more-legitmate predecessors, like Ezra Taft Benson, who they don't want you to study, because he warned about the pit these phonies have dragged the church into. The phonies are now guided by their worldly concerns, having amassed so much money. They are not shepherding the flock, like they are supposed to.

ETF also died as a multi-millionaire. I use to really like him until I found that out. If you are a GA you are on the gravy train to riches.

I kind of doubt it was the Church funds....the guy was in the President's cabinet for a time. As in President of the United States. Dude had connections.

[Reluctant Watchman]

well - say the Church was running everything how you think it's supposed to.
Is it the rule to pay your tithe to the church or not?

We've already established it is a lower law. And, it is taught incorrectly. And the church is corrupt in how they use the funds. You tell me if the Lord simply wants me to pay my dues and shut up, ignoring any accountability or transparency on the part of the corporation, I mean, church.

I dunno what the Lord wants except obedience to his will. Whatever that is in any particular case. I know you have your reasoning.

Does it not break your common sense meter (BS meter really) when the church hides $32B from you illegally, and their excuses are flat-out stupid?

[Magus]

We've already established it is a lower law. And, it is taught incorrectly. And the church is corrupt in how they use the funds. You tell me if the Lord simply wants me to pay my dues and shut up, ignoring any accountability or transparency on the part of the corporation, I mean, church.

I dunno what the Lord wants except obedience to his will. Whatever that is in any particular case. I know you have your reasoning.

Does it not break your common sense meter (BS meter really) when the church hides $32B from you illegally, and their excuses are flat-out stupid?

What should I think?

[Reluctant Watchman]

I dunno what the Lord wants except obedience to his will. Whatever that is in any particular case. I know you have your reasoning.

Does it not break your common sense meter (BS meter really) when the church hides $32B from you illegally, and their excuses are flat-out stupid?

What should I think?

Member: Lord, should I give my money to a church that is financially corrupt?
Jesus:

[Magus]

Does it not break your common sense meter (BS meter really) when the church hides $32B from you illegally, and their excuses are flat-out stupid?

What should I think?

Member: Lord, should I give my money to a church that is financially corrupt?
Jesus:

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

Nephi: Stop changing doctrine and building up fine sanctuaries at the expense of the poor.
Member: Nah, we're good.

[Magus]

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

Nephi: Stop changing doctrine and building up fine sanctuaries at the expense of the poor.
Member: Nah, we're good.

I'd be interested to know how much of the Church's wealth actually comes from the poor. My personal guess would be not that much of it. That most of it probably comes from well-off to wealthy tithe-payers and then the Church's financial investments.

[JuneBug12000]

What should I think?

Member: Lord, should I give my money to a church that is financially corrupt?
Jesus:

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

I don't know why it should be.

Jesus set up a church through Moses. It was corrupted by his day. He spoke the truth, even in his "home ward." The people were angry and tried to throw him off a cliff. He passed through the crowd safe. He went and taught people in the wilderness.

I want to follow Jesus.

I acknowledge that this church was set up by God. That the leadership went astray. I continue to speak truth in church. It seems likely they will soon cast me out. I am comfortable worshipping I'm the "wilderness."

Just like Jesus.

[JuneBug12000]

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

Nephi: Stop changing doctrine and building up fine sanctuaries at the expense of the poor.
Member: Nah, we're good.

I'd be interested to know how much of the Church's wealth actually comes from the poor. My personal guess would be not that much of it. That most of it probably comes from well-off to wealthy tithe-payers and then the Church's financial investments.

Does it matter the dollar amount?

I gave from my want, but I gave.

So, should my sacrifice be worth less because of the amount? Or is it really based on sacrifice?

And if my pittance is too small, feel free to return it to me. It would make a world of difference in my life.

[Magus]

Member: Lord, should I give my money to a church that is financially corrupt?
Jesus:

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

I don't know why it should be.

Jesus set up a church through Moses. It was corrupted by his day. He spoke the truth, even in his "home ward." The people were angry and tried to throw him off a cliff. He passed through the crowd safe. He went and taught people in the wilderness.

I want to follow Jesus.

I acknowledge that this church was set up by God. That the leadership went astray. I continue to speak truth in church. It seems likely they will soon cast me out. I am comfortable worshipping I'm the "wilderness."

Just like Jesus.

Yeah - thing is though, even though the Church had been corrupted by Jesus's time, he didn't go around telling people to leave it. He still attended the temple. Restoration still came through it. The apostles still practiced many of the customs until they were told to drop some of them. The Christians were just Jews who believed in Christ.

[Magus]

Nephi: Stop changing doctrine and building up fine sanctuaries at the expense of the poor.
Member: Nah, we're good.

I'd be interested to know how much of the Church's wealth actually comes from the poor. My personal guess would be not that much of it. That most of it probably comes from well-off to wealthy tithe-payers and then the Church's financial investments.

Does it matter the dollar amount?

I gave from my want, but I gave.

So, should my sacrifice be worth less because of the amount? Or is it really based on sacrifice?

And if my pittance is too small, feel free to return it to me. It would make a world of difference in my life.

I was just responding to his accusation that the Church is building temples off the backs of the poor.

That seems unlikely to me on face value. It would seem to me that the contributions of the poor to the wealth of the Church are dwarfed by the contributions of the well-off to wealthy. I could be wrong, but just my practical guess.

[JuneBug12000]

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

I don't know why it should be.

Jesus set up a church through Moses. It was corrupted by his day. He spoke the truth, even in his "home ward." The people were angry and tried to throw him off a cliff. He passed through the crowd safe. He went and taught people in the wilderness.

I want to follow Jesus.

I acknowledge that this church was set up by God. That the leadership went astray. I continue to speak truth in church. It seems likely they will soon cast me out. I am comfortable worshipping I'm the "wilderness."

Just like Jesus.

Yeah - thing is though, even though the Church had been corrupted by Jesus's time, he didn't go around telling people to leave it. He still attended the temple. Restoration still came through it. The apostles still practiced many of the customs until they were told to drop some of them. The Christians were just Jews who believed in Christ.

Jesus definitely spoke directly and with strong insults against the wayward leaders and practices of the church in his day.

Even still the scriptures tell us to go out of Babylon and touch not the unclean thing. Doctrine and Covenants 101 prophesies and warns us about the leadership putting the money to the exchanger, failing to build the watchtowers and the destruction that follows. Mormon 8 is a warning for our day, for our church.

I, as many who are like me, still believe in the Restoration. Still believe the Book of Mormon. Still partake of the sacrament.

I guess I'm just a "Mormon" who believes in Christ.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

Nephi: Stop changing doctrine and building up fine sanctuaries at the expense of the poor.
Member: Nah, we're good.

I'd be interested to know how much of the Church's wealth actually comes from the poor. My personal guess would be not that much of it. That most of it probably comes from well-off to wealthy tithe-payers and then the Church's financial investments.

The fact that ANY of it comes from the poor (those who cannot put food on the table or pay rent) is wrong.

[Magus]

Nephi: Stop changing doctrine and building up fine sanctuaries at the expense of the poor.
Member: Nah, we're good.

I'd be interested to know how much of the Church's wealth actually comes from the poor. My personal guess would be not that much of it. That most of it probably comes from well-off to wealthy tithe-payers and then the Church's financial investments.

The fact that ANY of it comes from the poor (those who cannot put food on the table or pay rent) is wrong.

Didn't God command everyone to pay a tenth of their increase, tho. Poor or not. Yes, I'm aware of the debate about "increase." My point is God commanded everyone pay, regardless of wealth status.

[Seed Starter]

I mean, surely you can see how it's a lot more complicated than that for other people.

I don't know why it should be.

Jesus set up a church through Moses. It was corrupted by his day. He spoke the truth, even in his "home ward." The people were angry and tried to throw him off a cliff. He passed through the crowd safe. He went and taught people in the wilderness.

I want to follow Jesus.

I acknowledge that this church was set up by God. That the leadership went astray. I continue to speak truth in church. It seems likely they will soon cast me out. I am comfortable worshipping I'm the "wilderness."

Just like Jesus.

Yeah - thing is though, even though the Church had been corrupted by Jesus's time, he didn't go around telling people to leave it. He still attended the temple. Restoration still came through it. The apostles still practiced many of the customs until they were told to drop some of them. The Christians were just Jews who believed in Christ.

But he told people to follow him, not the people who corrupted it. If people are corrupting the church now why should we follow them? Staying in the church must not require following corrupt men. Those corrupt men kick people out of the church if they question them publicly. Instead of kicking Jesus out of the church or Jesus leaving the men of his time just killed him. Had Jesus lived decades after this do you think he would have stayed in their church?

[Magus]

I don't know why it should be.

Jesus set up a church through Moses. It was corrupted by his day. He spoke the truth, even in his "home ward." The people were angry and tried to throw him off a cliff. He passed through the crowd safe. He went and taught people in the wilderness.

I want to follow Jesus.

I acknowledge that this church was set up by God. That the leadership went astray. I continue to speak truth in church. It seems likely they will soon cast me out. I am comfortable worshipping I'm the "wilderness."

Just like Jesus.

Yeah - thing is though, even though the Church had been corrupted by Jesus's time, he didn't go around telling people to leave it. He still attended the temple. Restoration still came through it. The apostles still practiced many of the customs until they were told to drop some of them. The Christians were just Jews who believed in Christ.

But he told people to follow him, not the people who corrupted it. If people are corrupting the church now why should we follow them? Staying in the church must not require following corrupt men. Those corrupt men kick people out of the church if they question them publicly. Instead of kicking Jesus out of the church or Jesus leaving the men of his time just killed him. Had Jesus lived decades after this do you think he would have stayed in their church?

He didn't leave it then.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Didn't God command everyone to pay a tenth of their increase, tho. Poor or not. Yes, I'm aware of the debate about "increase." My point is God commanded everyone pay, regardless of wealth status.

Those who are truly poor have no increase. That's the whole point. Increase does not include basic necessities like food and shelter.

[Magus]

Didn't God command everyone to pay a tenth of their increase, tho. Poor or not. Yes, I'm aware of the debate about "increase." My point is God commanded everyone pay, regardless of wealth status.

Those who are truly poor have no increase. That's the whole point. Increase does not include basic necessities like food and shelter.

Yes I get that.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Didn't God command everyone to pay a tenth of their increase, tho. Poor or not. Yes, I'm aware of the debate about "increase." My point is God commanded everyone pay, regardless of wealth status.

Those who are truly poor have no increase. That's the whole point. Increase does not include basic necessities like food and shelter.

Yes I get that.

Well, if you "get that", then God does not expect everyone to pay.

BTW, the elephant in the room here is that the church is financially corrupt and compromised.