“Why I was released early from the High Council” (video)

[Reluctant Watchman]

A friend of mine shared this video from their brother. Last time I was down in UT schedules didn’t align for me to meet this man, but I love his honesty and willingness to follow what the Lord has taught him even amidst the watchful eye of church leaders, and to feel at peace for doing so.

[ransomme]

Including my own family, I know several taking this same approach. I wonder just how noticable these awakenings will be in the coffers of Church Inc.

It will be noticable in my ward, because we aren't the only ones.

[Bonhoeffer]

We’ve done the same for the same reasons with the added reason that we refuse to supplement BYU woke professors with these sacred funds. Also, after hearing the gospel of prosperity preached over the conference pulpit this past Oct it affirmed our decisions further.
A few yrs back, I was in tithing settlement with 2 of our kids. My husband wasn’t present as he was caring for injured people at the hospital that day. Being that he’s a Dr we have a higher income than most but what people don’t see is the countless times I couldn’t buy the most meager of foods at the grocery store bc we didn’t even have $5 on a credit card. We made sure to pay our tithing during those very difficult times, for fear we wouldn’t be “blessed” and all. I went hungry most evenings, my husband took advantage of the free hospital food and thankfully we got through the extremely dark days to now when we have amazing food security. There’s nothing scarier than worrying about how you’ll be able to feed or shelter your family.

Anyway, back to the tithing settlement- the then bishop told my kids that “everything we have, our nice house, etc. was a result of their parent’s righteousness.” Boy did I call him out on that! As poor as we were during my husband’s residency we knew of many others in our branch & district who were worse off and were far more “righteous” than us. We are wealthy bc my husband chose to dedicate himself to a very tedious education and grueling line of work that happens to pay well. He went into a lot of debt to do that & carries more risk with his line of work than most do. The bishop was very taken aback. Far too many members attribute their temporal “wealth” to their spiritual superiority. The BofM is rife with such teachings, no wonder people think that.

Now that my eyes have been open to the obscene wealth, the extravagant lifestyles of its leaders, the wining & dining of dignitaries and other “important people,” while ignoring the starving and poor in spirit I see being settled before the Lord very differently. Men don’t get to decide my standing before Him any longer. The curtain in the temple rent for a reason after Christ was killed. I refuse to allow them the opportunity to even ask. It’s honestly none of their business.

[Reluctant Watchman]

We’ve done the same for the same reasons with the added reason that we refuse to supplement BYU woke professors with these sacred funds. Also, after hearing the gospel of prosperity preached over the conference pulpit this past Oct it affirmed our decisions further.
A few yrs back, I was in tithing settlement with 2 of our kids. My husband wasn’t present as he was caring for injured people at the hospital that day. Being that he’s a Dr we have a higher income than most but what people don’t see is the countless times I couldn’t buy the most meager of foods at the grocery store bc we didn’t even have $5 on a credit card. We made sure to pay our tithing during those very difficult times, for fear we wouldn’t be “blessed” and all. I went hungry most evenings, my husband took advantage of the free hospital food and thankfully we got through the extremely dark days to now when we have amazing food security. There’s nothing scarier than worrying about how you’ll be able to feed or shelter your family.

Anyway, back to the tithing settlement- the then bishop told my kids that “everything we have, our nice house, etc. was a result of their parent’s righteousness.” Boy did I call him out on that! As poor as we were during my husband’s residency we knew of many others in our branch & district who were worse off and were far more “righteous” than us. We are wealthy bc my husband chose to dedicate himself to a very tedious education and grueling line of work that happens to pay well. He went into a lot of debt to do that & carries more risk with his line of work than most do. The bishop was very taken aback. Far too many members attribute their temporal “wealth” to their spiritual superiority. The BofM is rife with such teachings, no wonder people think that.

Now that my eyes have been open to the obscene wealth, the extravagant lifestyles of its leaders, the wining & dining of dignitaries and other “important people,” while ignoring the starving and poor in spirit I see being settled before the Lord very differently. Men don’t get to decide my standing before Him any longer. The curtain in the temple rent for a reason after Christ was killed. I refuse to allow them the opportunity to even ask. It’s honestly none of their business.

Thank you for sharing your story. I think BoM believers often confuse the doctrinal teaching of the Lord and how he blessed people in their righteousness, but those blessings aren’t always material things, like food housing and shelter. And the opposite (or lack of “things”) isn’t always a sign of wickedness.

[Teancum1]

We sat last year in tithing settlement and declared as full tithe payers. However much like the guy in this video we had stopped giving tithes to the church for nearly the same reasons in early 2022. We told him exactly what we were doing and why. Needless to say he didn’t have any clue what to say. He wanted to tie this to our righteousness by asking do we pray, read the scriptures etc. of course we answered that we do those things and likely have been doing that more earnestly than any time in our lives.
I had a similar conversation with my stake president as well. I was also released from my high council calling after less than a year’s service. Since that time I’ve received a few anonymous letters in the mail from members telling me to “doubt my doubts” etc. it’s interesting that immediately people assume you are sinful(of course I am sinful as I’m human). It saddens me that instead of having open and honest discussions about difficult policies and doctrines in the church, we must portray an outward allegiance to an organization in silence.

I am seeing more and more honest truth seekers within the church courageously following their own inspiration after much prayer and fasting. I commend Adam Boyle and others who are exhibiting integrity of heart and following Christ. I am not proud of dissenting from what the brethren are doing. It saddens me that to maintain my integrity- I must do what He is asking me to do.

I am willing to walk through the wilderness with my wife and family being led by a pillar of fire. I am sure we will see many of you there.

[Chip]

The brother in the video had very high value to the church, because of his consistency in his stake callings. It's stupid of them to alienate him because he doesn't want to give his money to the communists. But, what's new?

[AgeOfAquarius]

Thank you for sharing the video. My heart goes out to him and his family.

[Reluctant Watchman]

So far we have Adam Boyle, Teancum1, and myself as high councilors who were released from their callings. Was anybody else released as a HC lately?

[fractal_light_harvest]

We’ve done the same for the same reasons with the added reason that we refuse to supplement BYU woke professors with these sacred funds. Also, after hearing the gospel of prosperity preached over the conference pulpit this past Oct it affirmed our decisions further.
A few yrs back, I was in tithing settlement with 2 of our kids. My husband wasn’t present as he was caring for injured people at the hospital that day. Being that he’s a Dr we have a higher income than most but what people don’t see is the countless times I couldn’t buy the most meager of foods at the grocery store bc we didn’t even have $5 on a credit card. We made sure to pay our tithing during those very difficult times, for fear we wouldn’t be “blessed” and all. I went hungry most evenings, my husband took advantage of the free hospital food and thankfully we got through the extremely dark days to now when we have amazing food security. There’s nothing scarier than worrying about how you’ll be able to feed or shelter your family.

Anyway, back to the tithing settlement- the then bishop told my kids that “everything we have, our nice house, etc. was a result of their parent’s righteousness.” Boy did I call him out on that! As poor as we were during my husband’s residency we knew of many others in our branch & district who were worse off and were far more “righteous” than us. We are wealthy bc my husband chose to dedicate himself to a very tedious education and grueling line of work that happens to pay well. He went into a lot of debt to do that & carries more risk with his line of work than most do. The bishop was very taken aback. Far too many members attribute their temporal “wealth” to their spiritual superiority. The BofM is rife with such teachings, no wonder people think that.

Now that my eyes have been open to the obscene wealth, the extravagant lifestyles of its leaders, the wining & dining of dignitaries and other “important people,” while ignoring the starving and poor in spirit I see being settled before the Lord very differently. Men don’t get to decide my standing before Him any longer. The curtain in the temple rent for a reason after Christ was killed. I refuse to allow them the opportunity to even ask. It’s honestly none of their business.

Thank you for this. It means something to me personally. I admire you and your husband.

[Fred]

The church does not even hide their partnerships with satan or their funneling millions of dollars to purely satanic causes.

Is the answer to who are too stupid to be considered human, TBMs?

[JuneBug12000]

My daughter was asked to talk on Sunday and said yes. Then the bishop told her the topic was tithing.

My husband and I just found out yesterday and our whole family is in something of an uproar.

My husband doesn't want her to give the talk. He wants to lay stuff out for the bishop in a text and maybe a meeting.

My daughter wants to give the talk. Avoid the word tithing and just quote Jesus on giving to the poor.

I would be happy to help my daughter tell the whole truth with scriptures and quotes from the prophets about the true doctrine, not the current policy.

But, I'm ok if my husband feels strongly that she should just not give it.

One of my older boys is worried about community, as is my husband, and wants us to just let her give the talk on giving she wants and avoid taking about tithing.

My husband also sees this as an opportunity to squash any discussions tithing settlement and baptizing our daughter next month. Neither of which he wants.

He also wants to talk with the bishop more about how things were handled with our son's mission. The problem is, we are preaching to the choir in the topic. The bishops son was sent home a week before ours in similar circumstances, so he totally gets those feelings and concerns.

What a mess.

I keep feeling we really are living in similar circumstances to the church in Jesus day. It started fine until men got in there and messed it up. Now the righteous meet in the wilderness while the wicked judge the righteous. And all the righteous can do is wait for the Lord to come clean it up.




.

[Wolfwoman]

Great little video.

I think my brain works differently from a lot of people’s brains. If a high councilman in my ward got released, I can assure you I would have no idea how long he has been on the high council for and whether he was being released early or not. How do people keep track of that stuff? I can barely keep track of how long a bishop or stake Pres. has been in.

[JuneBug12000]

Great little video.

I think my brain works differently from a lot of people’s brains. If a high councilman in my ward got released, I can assure you I would have no idea how long he has been on the high council for and whether he was being released early or not. How do people keep track of that stuff? I can barely keep track of how long a bishop or stake Pres. has been in.

You don't have to keep track of it, the ward gossip will make sure to announce the timing of the early release.

[HereWeGo]

Interesting that the Lord told him that he is responsible as to how his tithing funds are distributed. When you give them to an organization, you lose control of how they are distributed.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Interesting that the Lord told him that he is responsible as to how his tithing funds are distributed. When you give them to an organization, you lose control of how they are distributed.

I’ve always remembered a quote from Renlund, “When the distance between the giver and receiver increase, so does the sense of entitlement on the part of the receiver.” (paraphrased) Ironic, really.

IMO this is how the law of consecration is supposed to operate. You work out your full consecration between you and God, no middleman. And the servants are just that, a servant, not a “leader”, not full on their “keys and authority”, no “my stewardship vs your steward,” just you and God.

[creator]

A friend of mine shared this video from their brother...

Without watching the video I would assume the TL;DR would likely fall into two camps, it's usually someone who finds themselves at odds with the Church because they actually believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, or because they don't believe it and they want the Church to come even further over to their godless view of the world.

[creator]

..If a high councilman in my ward got released, I can assure you I would have no idea how long he has been on the high council for and whether he was being released early or not. How do people keep track of that stuff?

I'm pretty sure almost no one is keeping track of that. It's likely no one would notice (except maybe a few others that are on the high council). I suppose the value in making noise about it is so that others know they aren't alone in their concerns.

[Reluctant Watchman]

There are probably members in my former ward who think we are off serving somewhere in the stake/local area and we haven’t been to church in almost 3 years… and are no longer members.

[Teancum1]

There are probably members in my former ward who think we are off serving somewhere in the stake/local area and we haven’t been to church in almost 3 years… and are no longer members.

Have you gotten any anonymous letters much?

[larsenb]

The brother in the video had very high value to the church, because of his consistency in his stake callings. It's stupid of them to alienate him because he doesn't want to give his money to the communists. But, what's new?

Really, a salt-of-the-earth kind of guy, in my view. He makes me feel rather inadequate in my own personal journey.

[Reluctant Watchman]

There are probably members in my former ward who think we are off serving somewhere in the stake/local area and we haven’t been to church in almost 3 years… and are no longer members.

Have you gotten any anonymous letters much?

Nope, no letters. But I was visited in my home by two EQ presidents, a ward mission leader, the assistant WML, a ministering couple, a friendly neighbor, and the full-time missionaries. None of them wanted to know why we left... but I gave them a pretty good idea in general terms.

It was a bit odd though that I told my bishop via text that I'd love to chat, but he hasn't communicated a single thing in three years. And my stake president didn't care to talk either. That is until my records were removed, then he asked if we could still be friends.

[Robin Hood]

So far we have Adam Boyle, Teancum1, and myself as high councilors who were released from their callings. Was anybody else released as a HC lately?

I was released from the HC three years ago, but not for the same reason... I was called to the EQ presidency. I have now been released from that and have no calling for the first time since 2005.
However, I have had a discussion with my Bishop about tithing and he seems quite supportive.

[Seed Starter]

My daughter was asked to talk on Sunday and said yes. Then the bishop told her the topic was tithing.

My husband and I just found out yesterday and our whole family is in something of an uproar.

My husband doesn't want her to give the talk. He wants to lay stuff out for the bishop in a text and maybe a meeting.

My daughter wants to give the talk. Avoid the word tithing and just quote Jesus on giving to the poor.

I would be happy to help my daughter tell the whole truth with scriptures and quotes from the prophets about the true doctrine, not the current policy.

But, I'm ok if my husband feels strongly that she should just not give it.

One of my older boys is worried about community, as is my husband, and wants us to just let her give the talk on giving she wants and avoid taking about tithing.

My husband also sees this as an opportunity to squash any discussions tithing settlement and baptizing our daughter next month. Neither of which he wants.

He also wants to talk with the bishop more about how things were handled with our son's mission. The problem is, we are preaching to the choir in the topic. The bishops son was sent home a week before ours in similar circumstances, so he totally gets those feelings and concerns.

What a mess.

I keep feeling we really are living in similar circumstances to the church in Jesus day. It started fine until men got in there and messed it up. Now the righteous meet in the wilderness while the wicked judge the righteous. And all the righteous can do is wait for the Lord to come clean it up.




.

I'm amazed that you have the ability/faith to stay in an organization that is so openly causing so much grief for your family. It seems like more and more you have to be very defensive in how you participate. I don't say this out of judgment at all. I just haven't been back because I see constant conflict if I were to attend and act in accordance with my internal values. I think I'd be kicked out quick and I like my bishop too much to make him part of that crap show. Also I refuse to subject myself to that process. I think I remember you posting that you felt you had to stay. I just wonder how you do it when I read the things you post. It seems like it is becoming an alien environment for your family. Again no judgment here. This cannot be easy. I admire your commitment but it seems like you're close to the cons outweighing the pros. Thoughts?

[JuneBug12000]

My daughter was asked to talk on Sunday and said yes. Then the bishop told her the topic was tithing.

My husband and I just found out yesterday and our whole family is in something of an uproar.

My husband doesn't want her to give the talk. He wants to lay stuff out for the bishop in a text and maybe a meeting.

My daughter wants to give the talk. Avoid the word tithing and just quote Jesus on giving to the poor.

I would be happy to help my daughter tell the whole truth with scriptures and quotes from the prophets about the true doctrine, not the current policy.

But, I'm ok if my husband feels strongly that she should just not give it.

One of my older boys is worried about community, as is my husband, and wants us to just let her give the talk on giving she wants and avoid taking about tithing.

My husband also sees this as an opportunity to squash any discussions tithing settlement and baptizing our daughter next month. Neither of which he wants.

He also wants to talk with the bishop more about how things were handled with our son's mission. The problem is, we are preaching to the choir in the topic. The bishops son was sent home a week before ours in similar circumstances, so he totally gets those feelings and concerns.

What a mess.

I keep feeling we really are living in similar circumstances to the church in Jesus day. It started fine until men got in there and messed it up. Now the righteous meet in the wilderness while the wicked judge the righteous. And all the righteous can do is wait for the Lord to come clean it up.




.

I'm amazed that you have the ability/faith to stay in an organization that is so openly causing so much grief for your family. It seems like more and more you have to be very defensive in how you participate. I don't say this out of judgment at all. I just haven't been back because I see constant conflict if I were to attend and act in accordance with my internal values. I think I'd be kicked out quick and I like him too much to make him part of that crap show. Also I refuse to subject myself to that process. I think I remember you posting that you felt you had to stay. I just wonder how ou do it when I read the things you post. It seems like it is becoming an alien environment for your family. Again no judgment here. This cannot be easy. I admire your commitment but it seems like you're close to the cons outweighing the pros. Thoughts?

You are right that we are teetering on the brink.

More than once we have stayed home in favor of family study and discussion.

We believe our Bishop to be sincere and have no desire to cause him grief.

I am still teaching Sunday school and while some are obviously annoyed by my lessons, I was told in April by inspiration to keep going and speak the words of Christ from the scriptures. I was told to take up my cross and that any who are angry with me speaking his word are angry at Him, not me.

I also understand that I am not to leave, but if I am kicked out, not to worry.

I truly feel we are the church of Jesus' day. The righteous like John and Peter, and even Jesus kept doing what was right until they were driven out to the wilderness. We are almost there.

This current event may be the end.

Either way, I have told my husband more than one I don't want the kids going anymore. They are not teaching truth or doing right by the primary kids anymore.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I have had a discussion with my Bishop about tithing and he seems quite supportive.

I can only imagine that the conversation between you and your bishop would be drastically different than mine.