LDS Freedom Forum

I write these words because in pleading with Our Father in Heaven.... I know that I am not worthy to kneel at his feet... But, please let me guide others, so that they may be saved by your grace. Let me serve.

I have been praying in earnest for an understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Being far from the war, empathy wanes and we attempt to place blame on one side or the other for the atrocities that we see in the news.

The first impression that I received... "Soon many will be comforted." I do not know what is meant by "soon"... a day, a week, a year.... a thousand years? Nor do I know who will be comforted.... or How? Will they receive comfort in their hearts? Will war end? Will they die and no longer feel the pains here on earth? I do not know.

I simply know that he has heard my prayers, and many will be comforted.

Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

If any man had the right to condemn his persecutors, it would have been our Lord and Saviour. Yet, he truly loved and asked our Father in Heaven to forgive them. How can we, who are not as worthy take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance? How can we, so full of fault, condemn our neighbors for their iniquities.

Are we so busy building up our stores that we turn a blind eye to those who struggle. (Not our fault, they made poor choices). Love knows no boundaries. Love is our answer.

If we perish tomorrow with a hardness in our hearts that we pass on to our children... harsh will be our judgement.

*I share with you not because I am a good person who is better than any of you. I am not even close to the person that I need to be... I am more like Moses who was told to go to Mount Nebo and die..
"...because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet you shall see the land before you, though you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving to the children of Israel.”

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am I write these words because in pleading with Our Father in Heaven.... I know that I am not worthy to kneel at his feet... But, please let me guide others, so that they may be saved by your grace. Let me serve.

I have been praying in earnest for an understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Being far from the war, empathy wanes and we attempt to place blame on one side or the other for the atrocities that we see in the news.

The first impression that I received... "Soon many will be comforted." I do not know what is meant by "soon"... a day, a week, a year.... a thousand years? Nor do I know who will be comforted.... or How? Will they receive comfort in their hearts? Will war end? Will they die and no longer feel the pains here on earth? I do not know.

I simply know that he has heard my prayers, and many will be comforted.

Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

If any man had the right to condemn his persecutors, it would have been our Lord and Saviour. Yet, he truly loved and asked our Father in Heaven to forgive them. How can we, who are not as worthy take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance? How can we, so full of fault, condemn our neighbors for their iniquities.

Are we so busy building up our stores that we turn a blind eye to those who struggle. (Not our fault, they made poor choices). Love knows no boundaries. Love is our answer.

If we perish tomorrow with a hardness in our hearts that we pass on to our children... harsh will be our judgement.

*I share with you not because I am a good person who is better than any of you. I am not even close to the person that I need to be... I am more like Moses who was told to go to Mount Nebo and die..
"...because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet you shall see the land before you, though you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving to the children of Israel.”

Being far from the war, empathy wanes

This is true and I don't think it's a bad thing, I would argue that it is a good thing to not care about what is going on in the middle east because it's none of our business, and there's nothing we can do about it anyway. We need to take care of our own communities, that's how we make a difference in the world. I have the same attitude about this as Wranglerstar https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-oMWzfy_48s.

Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly.

I don't really know what this means. I personally don't believe that unconditional love exists in this world, with the only exception being the love that a parent has for their child. It sounds to me like you're saying that parents should teach their children to be punching bags.

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am I write these words because in pleading with Our Father in Heaven.... I know that I am not worthy to kneel at his feet... But, please let me guide others, so that they may be saved by your grace. Let me serve.

I have been praying in earnest for an understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Being far from the war, empathy wanes and we attempt to place blame on one side or the other for the atrocities that we see in the news.

The first impression that I received... "Soon many will be comforted." I do not know what is meant by "soon"... a day, a week, a year.... a thousand years? Nor do I know who will be comforted.... or How? Will they receive comfort in their hearts? Will war end? Will they die and no longer feel the pains here on earth? I do not know.

I simply know that he has heard my prayers, and many will be comforted.

Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

If any man had the right to condemn his persecutors, it would have been our Lord and Saviour. Yet, he truly loved and asked our Father in Heaven to forgive them. How can we, who are not as worthy take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance? How can we, so full of fault, condemn our neighbors for their iniquities.

Are we so busy building up our stores that we turn a blind eye to those who struggle. (Not our fault, they made poor choices). Love knows no boundaries. Love is our answer.

If we perish tomorrow with a hardness in our hearts that we pass on to our children... harsh will be our judgement.

*I share with you not because I am a good person who is better than any of you. I am not even close to the person that I need to be... I am more like Moses who was told to go to Mount Nebo and die..
"...because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet you shall see the land before you, though you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving to the children of Israel.”

I believe those are words from the Lord.

As word of encouragement. You of yourself are not worthy, but Jesus' blood has made you so, rejoice in His mercy and grace for you more than what you feel is your own nothingness- for He has called you to be a Daughter of the Living God. He has a crown for you/us. Often times we let our own feelings of nothingness trump the blessings that God has for us ( I'm not saying you are doing this, but if you are just want to encourage you to accept all He desires for you to accept and to accept what He says about you) He loves you. Of your own works you are unworthy to fall to your knees at his feet, but of and through Jesus' blood and in Faith, you are MORE than worthy, because Jesus made you so and because HE said so. You are righteous because of faith in Him, let that righteousness continue to produce good fruit in your life. Anyways, I apologize if I read this wrong, but I really wanted to encourage you in the Lord and to know how He views you- and His view is worth so much more than our own limited view and He sees all you can be and is rooting for you and continuing to woo you towards that. It is why you fall to your knees, He loves it and desires to continue to cultivate that relationship with you, for He is your Father.

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

What exactly do you mean by this?

You are aware that this phrase is used to justify gross and abominable sin. To those who are in sin, to tell them they are doing that which is against God is to "hate" them.

So I'm very interested in what exactly you man by this and would love an example of what you mean.

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:48 am

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

What exactly do you mean by this?

You are aware that this phrase is used to justify gross and abominable sin. To those who are in sin, to tell them they are doing that which is against God is to "hate" them.

So I'm very interested in what exactly you man by this and would love an example of what you mean.

I believe unconditional love can be manifest without condoning sin and inappropriate behavior.

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:58 am
I don't really know what this means. I personally don't believe that unconditional love exists in this world, with the only exception being the love that a parent has for their child. It sounds to me like you're saying that parents should teach their children to be punching bags.

In Loving our children unconditionally, we step in and teach them. We listen to them. We do not react in rage when they are wrong. We defend ourselves if they attempt to hurt us. We provide guidance and discipline. All out of Love.

Can we teach our children to use these same principals in dealing with their fellow man? By all means they should defend themselves, but not out of anger or seeking revenge, for then their hearts are giving in to the evils.

The old chestnut, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner," is appropriate here. We have to preach against all sin and iniquity and hold fast to God and those things which are good. We have to love our enemies as well, for God maketh the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. That said, we also have to pray for our enemies' sins to be exposed and pray for the Lord to prevent them from hurting others anymore, and we have to work to make those things a reality as we expose the hidden things of darkness.

In other words, we have to walk a very fine line. We must receive railings and not return them against our persecutors. (It's important to understand that stating true things about someone is not railing against them.) We have to forgive in our hearts even men like Rusty, Gordon Bowen, Tony Fauci, Bill Gates, the Podesta brothers, and Klaus Schwab. But we do not release them from the consequences of their actions because God will have his vengeance. Thankfully, though, we don't have any part in that.

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:48 am

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

What exactly do you mean by this?

You are aware that this phrase is used to justify gross and abominable sin. To those who are in sin, to tell them they are doing that which is against God is to "hate" them.

So I'm very interested in what exactly you man by this and would love an example of what you mean.

Why do you feel this way? It takes a great deal of love and prayer to be able to articulate, in a teaching manner, to those who have done wrong. We can indeed love the person who has sinned. This in no way implies that I agree with their sin, nor should it be glossed over. They are held accountable by the courts on Earth as well as on high.

Many years ago, I watched videos of Hamas parents teaching their young children to hate Israelis. They made cartoon in which Iraeli soldiers were killing their favorite cartoon characters. The children were upset and the parents taught them to seek revenge. From babies.... hatred is ingrained. And we are shocked at the atrocities. We condemn them. Parents must teach love. It is what I have been told to give to you.

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:19 am

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:48 am

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

What exactly do you mean by this?

You are aware that this phrase is used to justify gross and abominable sin. To those who are in sin, to tell them they are doing that which is against God is to "hate" them.

So I'm very interested in what exactly you man by this and would love an example of what you mean.

Why do you feel this way? It takes a great deal of love and prayer to be able to articulate, in a teaching manner, to those who have done wrong. We can indeed love the person who has sinned. This in no way implies that I agree with their sin, nor should it be glossed over. They are held accountable by the courts on Earth as well as on high.

Many years ago, I watched videos of Hamas parents teaching their young children to hate Israelis. They made cartoon in which Iraeli soldiers were killing their favorite cartoon characters. The children were upset and the parents taught them to seek revenge. From babies.... hatred is ingrained. And we are shocked at the atrocities. We condemn them. Parents must teach love. It is what I have been told to give to you.

To love unconditionally is used by Satan…..

Should we be like the Jewish people and cage the Hamas people? No

Should we be like the Hamas people and grow hatred in our children for the Jewish people? No

If you love me keep my commandments….

When asked about our opinion, we should let them know and if isn’t found upon a rock it will crumble when it comes under strain.

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:19 am

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:48 am

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

What exactly do you mean by this?

You are aware that this phrase is used to justify gross and abominable sin. To those who are in sin, to tell them they are doing that which is against God is to "hate" them.

So I'm very interested in what exactly you man by this and would love an example of what you mean.

Why do you feel this way? It takes a great deal of love and prayer to be able to articulate, in a teaching manner, to those who have done wrong. We can indeed love the person who has sinned. This in no way implies that I agree with their sin, nor should it be glossed over. They are held accountable by the courts on Earth as well as on high.

Many years ago, I watched videos of Hamas parents teaching their young children to hate Israelis. They made cartoon in which Iraeli soldiers were killing their favorite cartoon characters. The children were upset and the parents taught them to seek revenge. From babies.... hatred is ingrained. And we are shocked at the atrocities. We condemn them. Parents must teach love. It is what I have been told to give to you.

Why do I feel what way? I'm stating an observation.

So more to the point, Wyatt is your view on LGBTQ+?
Should someone who is openly queer be allowed into the Temple?

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:27 am

To love unconditionally is used by Satan…..

And yet we are commanded to love our neighbors. We are not commanded to love those who are easy for us to understand and abstain from loving those who hurt us. We are to forgive and love all.

This brings to mind the dream I had of a homeless man beating me... In the dream I was able to feel a complete love for him.

viewtopic.php?p=1315369&hilit=homeless#p1315369

The joy of love surpasses all doubts in my mind as I feel it course thru me. Satan can use this against me, but he cannot take away the reward. If I am judged harshly, let it not be for a stiff neck and a selective love of my fellow man.

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:48 pm Why do I feel what way? I'm stating an observation.

So more to the point, Wyatt is your view on LGBTQ+?
Should someone who is openly queer be allowed into the Temple?

I have "alphabet" friends whom I love dearly. My neighbor is a kind loving "gay" woman who does much to help our neighbors.

Yet, I do not believe that her lifestyle is agreeable to our Father in Heaven.

On that note, I do not believe gay temple marriages should be performed in the temple.

... and I am torn as to whether she should be allowed. She is honestly living a very Christ-like life.... albeit this one fault.

So very thankful that I am not the one to judge whether or not any should or should not be in the temple. Myself, I stopped going when I became aware that a person merely has to lie during the recommend phase to be granted access. The hypocrisy was too much.

I have often wondered what would happen if we were to receive a jolt of electricity upon entering the temple... the voltage being determined upon our worthiness. It might surprise many to witness the jolts that many "good" people would receive.

I witnessed a child molester enter the temple and I waited with my breath held for him to be struck down. (I was 13 and I honestly thought God would punish him for stepping into such a holy space).

Nothing.... absolutely nothing happened.... except my faith in the sanctity of the temple was rocked off its foundation.

Over the years, I have learned that it is not my place to decide who is worthy. I am to forgive and to Love.

Yes we should love and forgive others but we are also commanded to warn.
And to posses true love for another we shouldn't be afraid to warn.

Ezekiel 3:18
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely adie; and thou givest him not bwarning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall cdie in his diniquity; but his blood will I erequire at thine hand.

Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.” (Ezek. 3:17–19.)

Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
Doctrine & Covenants 88:81

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 1:59 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:48 pm Why do I feel what way? I'm stating an observation.

So more to the point, Wyatt is your view on LGBTQ+?
Should someone who is openly queer be allowed into the Temple?

I have "alphabet" friends whom I love dearly. My neighbor is a kind loving "gay" woman who does much to help our neighbors.

Yet, I do not believe that her lifestyle is agreeable to our Father in Heaven.

On that note, I do not believe gay temple marriages should be performed in the temple.

... and I am torn as to whether she should be allowed. She is honestly living a very Christ-like life.... albeit this one fault.

So very thankful that I am not the one to judge whether or not any should or should not be in the temple. Myself, I stopped going when I became aware that a person merely has to lie during the recommend phase to be granted access. The hypocrisy was too much.

I have often wondered what would happen if we were to receive a jolt of electricity upon entering the temple... the voltage being determined upon our worthiness. It might surprise many to witness the jolts that many "good" people would receive.

I witnessed a child molester enter the temple and I waited with my breath held for him to be struck down. (I was 13 and I honestly thought God would punish him for stepping into such a holy space).

Nothing.... absolutely nothing happened.... except my faith in the sanctity of the temple was rocked off its foundation.

Over the years, I have learned that it is not my place to decide who is worthy. I am to forgive and to Love.

Interesting, do you believe that Christ was ever harsh, mean, or would be considered as "hateful"?

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 1:42 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:27 am

To love unconditionally is used by Satan…..

And yet we are commanded to love our neighbors. We are not commanded to love those who are easy for us to understand and abstain from loving those who hurt us. We are to forgive and love all.

This brings to mind the dream I had of a homeless man beating me... In the dream I was able to feel a complete love for him.

viewtopic.php?p=1315369&hilit=homeless#p1315369

The joy of love surpasses all doubts in my mind as I feel it course thru me. Satan can use this against me, but he cannot take away the reward. If I am judged harshly, let it not be for a stiff neck and a selective love of my fellow man.

I think Isaiah says it best here, as SJR3t2 says, you have to understand the Hebrew tongue a little.

Isaiah 1
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Can we not reason together?

Should we baptize the sinner or ask him/her to repent and then baptize them?

Leave the whore of Babylon behind you and follow your Lord and God.

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 1:59 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:48 pm Why do I feel what way? I'm stating an observation.

So more to the point, Wyatt is your view on LGBTQ+?
Should someone who is openly queer be allowed into the Temple?

I have "alphabet" friends whom I love dearly. My neighbor is a kind loving "gay" woman who does much to help our neighbors.

Yet, I do not believe that her lifestyle is agreeable to our Father in Heaven.

On that note, I do not believe gay temple marriages should be performed in the temple.

... and I am torn as to whether she should be allowed. She is honestly living a very Christ-like life.... albeit this one fault.

So very thankful that I am not the one to judge whether or not any should or should not be in the temple. Myself, I stopped going when I became aware that a person merely has to lie during the recommend phase to be granted access. The hypocrisy was too much.

I have often wondered what would happen if we were to receive a jolt of electricity upon entering the temple... the voltage being determined upon our worthiness. It might surprise many to witness the jolts that many "good" people would receive.

I witnessed a child molester enter the temple and I waited with my breath held for him to be struck down. (I was 13 and I honestly thought God would punish him for stepping into such a holy space).

Nothing.... absolutely nothing happened.... except my faith in the sanctity of the temple was rocked off its foundation.

Over the years, I have learned that it is not my place to decide who is worthy. I am to forgive and to Love.

I wonder if you carry this "unconditional" love over to other areas. This person you love so dearly who only has this one itsy, bitsy tiny "fault"-really it's not that big of a deal it's just a "fault". The one thing about those who proclaim "love unconditionally" is that they are the biggest hypocrites. They will say "oh this one friend . . . .I love them so dearly . . .they are queer...but they are sooooooooooo awesome, so wonderful, so Christlike...heck their crap doesn't even stink!"

But then when confronted with the "racist", the person who stands against it-they will hurl vile insults, calling them bigots, homophobes, wicked evil doers.

Your virtue signaling story about how much you "love unconditional" is garbage, trash, worthless. Why? Because it is so trite, so pase; you say it because it's the "in-thing" to do. You get to prop yourself up as someone who is so good, when the story of propping yourself up as someone who "loves unconditional" is about the most well-worn story that LDS members use to make themselves look so awesome to everyone else.

You even tell on yourself about how you do not abide by that which you preach.

You expected a lightening bolt for the child-molester and have judged him.
You believe your queer friend lives the most Christlike life . . .with just one tiny fault.

How about you use that same phrase with the "minor attracted individual". He lives the most "Christlike life" with this one fault...right?

Meh . . .I'm glad not have to deal with this type of goody-too-shoes virtue signaling BS much anymore.

I don't think of anything anymore in terms of "worthiness". I think of it as disease. Sin is a disease and it leads to death; some diseases are more advanced and some are not as advanced.

The person who is openly queer is in an advanced stage of the disease of Pride and the disease of Lust; which are the opposite of the virtues of Humility and Charity.

Anyone who thinks the person who is openly queer just has this "one fault"-has no understanding of God, of Christ, of Scriptures and what it takes to be redeemed. The diseased person full of Pride and Lust is not someone who can not enter into the Kingdom of God-full stop. The individual who repents, turns to Christ for healing of the disease of Pride and Lust is one who will be able to enter.

So yes this "one fault" will absolutely keep someone out of God's Kingdom, it's not tiny, it's not small and while it's root may be one (or two) things, the advanced stage of the disease is extremely deadly and one who truly loves their neighbor would do well to warn their neighbor of the disease of Pride and Lust and advocate for Humility and Chastity (which is a whole lot more than just no sex).

Godislove wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 2:48 pm Yes we should love and forgive others but we are also commanded to warn.
And to posses true love for another we shouldn't be afraid to warn.

Ezekiel 3:18
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely adie; and thou givest him not bwarning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall cdie in his diniquity; but his blood will I erequire at thine hand.

Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.” (Ezek. 3:17–19.)

Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
Doctrine & Covenants 88:81

I agree, warning can be is is often a part of love. More often than not though what people call warning comes from a place of frustration, anger, hate, and condemnation. Often it is done from a place of "I'm right and you're wrong," "or you better shape up or you're going to hell" rather than from a place of pleading and truly seeking the eternal welfare of another. Somewhere along the way we forgot that at one point we were sinners and we were forgiven and can be- and so can they. The light exposes darkness. The Truth of Christ and His love towards us is what allows us to even love in the first place - we love because HE loved us first. Until they see Christ in our life, living through us, our "warnings" will be much less effective and in some cases will push them farther away from God than nearer.

We also love to quote scripture "Behold I sent our out to testify and warn you neighbor" but more often than not we have a big fat beam in our own eye and can't see clear enough to get the fleck our from another persons eyes. Our day is filled with frustration, and anger and accusations and exclamations that they aren't "listening because they are tares, and we are so special and so must be the wheat." I'm not saying you personally say or do these things, but it is a general observation I"ve had over the past few years... including in my own life. For example, if I have lust toward the flesh in my own life and have not found strength in the Lord to overcome or believe He can help me, I have less moral ground to stand on when I tell a neighbor who is homosexual that htey are living a life incongruent with the Teachings of Jesus- because in that domain, so am I.

In our own "warning" we often forget the admonition to forgive, for those whom we forgive will be forgiven as they see Christ in us to love our neighbor as ourselves (first of course loving the Lord with all we are) so do we talk to our neighbor as we hope we would be treated?- I suppose hte question one should ask themselves is this - "Am I living my life in such a way, that if I give warning, people will listen, because I am pure of heart and without any guile?" More often than not, we need to clean our own bedroom first and receive from the Lord His mercy in order to share His mercy, for warnings also include great mercy- there is danger if they don't heed the warning, but the warning is from a place of mercy to offer mercy.

Again, sincerely I"m not calling you out or accusing you of these things, More just sharing hte above out of education and the necessity for us to realize HOW we do thing and the Why can make a large difference. Is it in hypocrisy? Out of Love? Out of another emotion? TO what do we point them when we warn them. Telling someone they are going to hell and not giving them JEsus to save them seems counterproductive. When Jesus told the disciples to preach - He told them to tell others that hte "kingdom is near" and to "heal the sick" then in Luke HE reverses it and says "heal the sick and preach the Kingdom is near." Perhaps we ought ot ask our selves what is the Kingdom, and what does that mean individually. Romans 14- for the Kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Do I believe I am righteous through Christ, do I have peace in my life because of the Salvation He offers, and joy in my heart for the expectation of looking like Him and Him being with me through His Holy Spirit constantly?)- can I preach hte Kingdom is near and "warn" my neighbor if I am not strong in believing the Kingdom of God is within me? Can I show them the Kingdom? Or am I just already telling them part of what they likely feel anyways which is they won't make it in the Kingdom?

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 3:13 pm

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 1:59 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:48 pm Why do I feel what way? I'm stating an observation.

So more to the point, Wyatt is your view on LGBTQ+?
Should someone who is openly queer be allowed into the Temple?

I have "alphabet" friends whom I love dearly. My neighbor is a kind loving "gay" woman who does much to help our neighbors.

Yet, I do not believe that her lifestyle is agreeable to our Father in Heaven.

On that note, I do not believe gay temple marriages should be performed in the temple.

... and I am torn as to whether she should be allowed. She is honestly living a very Christ-like life.... albeit this one fault.

So very thankful that I am not the one to judge whether or not any should or should not be in the temple. Myself, I stopped going when I became aware that a person merely has to lie during the recommend phase to be granted access. The hypocrisy was too much.

I have often wondered what would happen if we were to receive a jolt of electricity upon entering the temple... the voltage being determined upon our worthiness. It might surprise many to witness the jolts that many "good" people would receive.

I witnessed a child molester enter the temple and I waited with my breath held for him to be struck down. (I was 13 and I honestly thought God would punish him for stepping into such a holy space).

Nothing.... absolutely nothing happened.... except my faith in the sanctity of the temple was rocked off its foundation.

Over the years, I have learned that it is not my place to decide who is worthy. I am to forgive and to Love.

Interesting, do you believe that Christ was ever harsh, mean, or would be considered as "hateful"?

Yes, he was most likely would have been seen as all of those things by those who did not believe his words or by those who chose to live in sin... as a justification of their own inadequacies. The money lenders which he chased from the temple as an example.

A Father who disciplines his children (out of love) would be perceived as mean by a child who acted unrighteously, either from ignorance or pure disobedience.

This does not lessen the love of Christ, nor the earthly father, nor our Father above.

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 3:40 pm

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 1:42 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:27 am

To love unconditionally is used by Satan…..

And yet we are commanded to love our neighbors. We are not commanded to love those who are easy for us to understand and abstain from loving those who hurt us. We are to forgive and love all.

This brings to mind the dream I had of a homeless man beating me... In the dream I was able to feel a complete love for him.

viewtopic.php?p=1315369&hilit=homeless#p1315369

The joy of love surpasses all doubts in my mind as I feel it course thru me. Satan can use this against me, but he cannot take away the reward. If I am judged harshly, let it not be for a stiff neck and a selective love of my fellow man.

I think Isaiah says it best here, as SJR3t2 says, you have to understand the Hebrew tongue a little.

Isaiah 1
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Can we not reason together?

Should we baptize the sinner or ask him/her to repent and then baptize them?

Leave the whore of Babylon behind you and follow your Lord and God.

Thank you Bronco. The words of Isaiah are held close

spiritMan wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 3:41 pm
I wonder if you carry this "unconditional" love over to other areas. Yes, I truly do try, but I am not perfect. This is the main reason that I am admonished daily to forgive. This person you love so dearly who only has this one itsy, bitsy tiny "fault"-really it's not that big of a deal it's just a "fault". How can I love another and condemn them for their sins, when I am not perfect myself? You assume that I downplay her sin. That is not true. But, I refuse to hate, despise, or discard her. She too is a child of God and is loved by our Father. Who am I to say that she is unworthy of my love? The one thing about those who proclaim "love unconditionally" is that they are the biggest hypocrites. They will say "oh this one friend . . . .I love them so dearly . . .they are queer...but they are sooooooooooo awesome, so wonderful, so Christlike...heck their crap doesn't even stink!"

But then when confronted with the "racist", the person who stands against it-they will hurl vile insults, calling them bigots, homophobes, wicked evil doers. You paint your assumptions with a wide brush. There is a poster on this forum who openly posts racist comments. I consider her a friend and love her just the same. I know not what caused the pain in her heart... but I do not judge her. We may never agree on this earth, but I still would love to meet her in person and offer a hug in friendship. She is a beautiful person.

Your virtue signaling story about how much you "love unconditional" is garbage, trash, worthless. Why? Because it is so trite, so pase; you say it because it's the "in-thing" to do. This makes me smile. It may seem trite, pase, etc.... But I do not post to fit in. I post because I was told to share the message.You get to prop yourself up as someone who is so good, when the story of propping yourself up as someone who "loves unconditional" is about the most well-worn story that LDS members use to make themselves look so awesome to everyone else. Good grief.... I am probably the least worthy amongst us. I chose to serve as I am commanded. Not because I am better... for I know that I am not. I chose to serve because it is all that I have left to offer my father in Heaven.

You even tell on yourself about how you do not abide by that which you preach.

You expected a lightening bolt for the child-molester and have judged him. Yes, because I am far from perfect. The temple story was that of a "CHILD". I was told that no unclean thing could enter the temple. It was my first time at the temple and I could feel the spirit of our Father permeate thru me. Then I saw him. As a CHILD, believing that no unclean thing could enter the temple, I truly did think he would be struck down. When he was not, I began to doubt many things in which I had been taught.
You believe your queer friend lives the most (not most... but she is a good person) Christlike life . . .with just one tiny fault. Don't we all have faults? Does not the love in our hearts mean anything?

How about you use that same phrase with the "minor attracted individual". He lives the most "Christlike life" with this one fault...right?

Meh . . .I'm glad not have to deal with this type of goody-too-shoes virtue signaling BS much anymore.

I don't think of anything anymore in terms of "worthiness". I think of it as disease. Sin is a disease and it leads to death; some diseases are more advanced and some are not as advanced.

The person who is openly queer is in an advanced stage of the disease of Pride and the disease of Lust; which are the opposite of the virtues of Humility and Charity.

Anyone who thinks the person who is openly queer just has this "one fault"-has no understanding of God, of Christ, of Scriptures and what it takes to be redeemed. The diseased person full of Pride and Lust is not someone who can not enter into the Kingdom of God-full stop. The individual who repents, turns to Christ for healing of the disease of Pride and Lust is one who will be able to enter.

So yes this "one fault" will absolutely keep someone out of God's Kingdom, it's not tiny, it's not small and while it's root may be one (or two) things, the advanced stage of the disease is extremely deadly and one who truly loves their neighbor would do well to warn their neighbor of the disease of Pride and Lust and advocate for Humility and Chastity (which is a whole lot more than just no sex).

SpiritMan, I love you and welcome you to join me at any time in person. Perhaps then you will understand the sincerity of my message. I see sin. I understand sin. Yet the message I was asked to share remains true:

Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly.

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am I write these words because in pleading with Our Father in Heaven.... I know that I am not worthy to kneel at his feet... But, please let me guide others, so that they may be saved by your grace. Let me serve.

I have been praying in earnest for an understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Being far from the war, empathy wanes and we attempt to place blame on one side or the other for the atrocities that we see in the news.

The first impression that I received... "Soon many will be comforted." I do not know what is meant by "soon"... a day, a week, a year.... a thousand years? Nor do I know who will be comforted.... or How? Will they receive comfort in their hearts? Will war end? Will they die and no longer feel the pains here on earth? I do not know.

I simply know that he has heard my prayers, and many will be comforted.

Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

If any man had the right to condemn his persecutors, it would have been our Lord and Saviour. Yet, he truly loved and asked our Father in Heaven to forgive them. How can we, who are not as worthy take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance? How can we, so full of fault, condemn our neighbors for their iniquities.

Are we so busy building up our stores that we turn a blind eye to those who struggle. (Not our fault, they made poor choices). Love knows no boundaries. Love is our answer.

If we perish tomorrow with a hardness in our hearts that we pass on to our children... harsh will be our judgement.

*I share with you not because I am a good person who is better than any of you. I am not even close to the person that I need to be... I am more like Moses who was told to go to Mount Nebo and die..
"...because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet you shall see the land before you, though you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving to the children of Israel.”

I don't believe in this unconditional love which everyone seems to talk about as if it's real thing. It isn't.
Love is conditional, it's just that the conditions very depending on the kind of love and the circumstances.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 5:51 am
I don't believe in this unconditional love which everyone seems to talk about as if it's real thing. It isn't.
Love is conditional, it's just that the conditions very depending on the kind of love and the circumstances.

To say an unconditional love is not a real thing is like unto saying our Father in Heaven is not a real thing.... for he loves us unconditionally, even with all of our flaws. Even when we find it hard to love ourselves... even when we sin...

Unconditional love does not mean we close our eyes to that which is wrong. It means we draw from a deeper place and love the spirit that resides within. We help our fellow man out of love, not out of duty.

We are all children of God. How can we ask our Father for grace when our hearts are hardened to others?

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 5:51 am

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am I write these words because in pleading with Our Father in Heaven.... I know that I am not worthy to kneel at his feet... But, please let me guide others, so that they may be saved by your grace. Let me serve.

I have been praying in earnest for an understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Being far from the war, empathy wanes and we attempt to place blame on one side or the other for the atrocities that we see in the news.

The first impression that I received... "Soon many will be comforted." I do not know what is meant by "soon"... a day, a week, a year.... a thousand years? Nor do I know who will be comforted.... or How? Will they receive comfort in their hearts? Will war end? Will they die and no longer feel the pains here on earth? I do not know.

I simply know that he has heard my prayers, and many will be comforted.

Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

If any man had the right to condemn his persecutors, it would have been our Lord and Saviour. Yet, he truly loved and asked our Father in Heaven to forgive them. How can we, who are not as worthy take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance? How can we, so full of fault, condemn our neighbors for their iniquities.

Are we so busy building up our stores that we turn a blind eye to those who struggle. (Not our fault, they made poor choices). Love knows no boundaries. Love is our answer.

If we perish tomorrow with a hardness in our hearts that we pass on to our children... harsh will be our judgement.

*I share with you not because I am a good person who is better than any of you. I am not even close to the person that I need to be... I am more like Moses who was told to go to Mount Nebo and die..
"...because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet you shall see the land before you, though you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving to the children of Israel.”

I don't believe in this unconditional love which everyone seems to talk about as if it's real thing. It isn't.
Love is conditional, it's just that the conditions very depending on the kind of love and the circumstances.

I agree, it's just new agey nonsense that hippies say when coming off of a mushroom trip. And it doesn't have any doctrine backing it up.

gradles21 wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 6:20 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 5:51 am

Momma J wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 6:00 am I write these words because in pleading with Our Father in Heaven.... I know that I am not worthy to kneel at his feet... But, please let me guide others, so that they may be saved by your grace. Let me serve.

I have been praying in earnest for an understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Being far from the war, empathy wanes and we attempt to place blame on one side or the other for the atrocities that we see in the news.

The first impression that I received... "Soon many will be comforted." I do not know what is meant by "soon"... a day, a week, a year.... a thousand years? Nor do I know who will be comforted.... or How? Will they receive comfort in their hearts? Will war end? Will they die and no longer feel the pains here on earth? I do not know.

I simply know that he has heard my prayers, and many will be comforted.

Secondly.... Unless we teach our children to love unconditionally, we will be judged harshly. The examples that we set... the teachings that we offer... all hold more weight than any words we profess on a keyboard.

If any man had the right to condemn his persecutors, it would have been our Lord and Saviour. Yet, he truly loved and asked our Father in Heaven to forgive them. How can we, who are not as worthy take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance? How can we, so full of fault, condemn our neighbors for their iniquities.

Are we so busy building up our stores that we turn a blind eye to those who struggle. (Not our fault, they made poor choices). Love knows no boundaries. Love is our answer.

If we perish tomorrow with a hardness in our hearts that we pass on to our children... harsh will be our judgement.

*I share with you not because I am a good person who is better than any of you. I am not even close to the person that I need to be... I am more like Moses who was told to go to Mount Nebo and die..
"...because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet you shall see the land before you, though you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving to the children of Israel.”

I don't believe in this unconditional love which everyone seems to talk about as if it's real thing. It isn't.
Love is conditional, it's just that the conditions very depending on the kind of love and the circumstances.

I agree, it's just new agey nonsense that hippies say when coming off of a mushroom trip. And it doesn't have any doctrine backing it up.

If love never fails (1 cor 13/ Moroni 7) and God is love (1 John 4)... and he proved His love by giving His life for us already when we didn't even know who He was.. (Romans 5 and 1 John 4) and God does not change (Malachi 3, Heb 13, 1 Peter 1) and it " is the pure love of Christ that endures forever" (Moroni 7) then how can it be conditional?

The real problem comes down to us actually believing that someone can love us that purely- all we've know our entire life is conditional love. The older I get I realize we struggle believing we can be loved without having had to earn it. It doesn't mean there aren't consequences, nor a hell- but we are still loved- The very existence of Jesus Christ and what HE did proves that He loves us so much He still gave His life even though many may not accept Him. The question we must ask ourselves then is "Do I believe in the message of Jesus Christ?" "Do I receive His Love?" "Though I have ALL faith to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing" (1 Cor 13).

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There's another component to charity
Corinthians 13:6 tells us that charity “rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.”

Unconditional Love is False Doctrine
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/false-do ... is-mercier

https://ldsanswers.org/unconditional-lo ... -doctrine/