LDS Freedom Forum

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:54 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:50 am

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:46 am If a prophet speaks the word of God we reverence it because it is the word of God. Can a man be a president of our church and not be a prophet? I would think the answer is yes. We know that King Noah had priests surrounding him and of all the people in scripture they became the most wicked. When a true prophet spoke to them, they killed him. The problem is that King Noah was a King. In other words, he had status and worldly power. It forced the priests to lose their souls. A priest in that condition who doesn't lose his soul will lose his life. Alma had to flee and hide to protect himself. In these days, exactly how does a person flee and hide? You could argue it is not possible.

It is quite simple actually, you can up and leave the organization. You can leave the church. For now, they aren’t hunting you down… for now.

Yes you can leave the church. But whose goals are met by people leaving church? God or Satan's? Did God give us spiritual armor to retreat? Shouldn't we be able to get the fiends out of our own church? If not, why? And one thing to remember is the fiends always set up a fall guy to take the blame. It's something we need to be careful, not to fire on good hearted people who are caught up without their knowledge.

Jesus taught us to “pluck out” prophets who are leading us astray. He is one the who taught that it is ok to separate yourself from anyone who is striving to do so.

I do believe that “retreating” as you put it, is what the Lord intended in most instances. He did not tell us to remain in a burning ship. Rarely has the Lord ever commanded that war or the offensive is justified. Defense yes, but not offense. And yes, there are instances when offense is justified, but it is rare. The wicked will destroy the wicked.

My beef is not with the typical Joe-shmo member. My angst is against the top leadership of the church. They are the ones spiritually and physically abusing the members. I don’t see how leaving the church is firing on “good-hearted” people. I was one of those who blindly placed my trust in these men. I now know that was wrong.

Many, many years ago I was in a small training meeting with then Elder Anderson of the 70.

I thought he was humble, authentic, sincere and relatable. By nature I am skeptical of people, and usually takes time for me to trust a person, but I took a near instant liking of him. I still like him today.

I can't explain his recent words or actions. I would say they seem to me to be a sharp contrast to my interaction with him and his talks prior to Nelson being in command.

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:54 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:50 am

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:46 am If a prophet speaks the word of God we reverence it because it is the word of God. Can a man be a president of our church and not be a prophet? I would think the answer is yes. We know that King Noah had priests surrounding him and of all the people in scripture they became the most wicked. When a true prophet spoke to them, they killed him. The problem is that King Noah was a King. In other words, he had status and worldly power. It forced the priests to lose their souls. A priest in that condition who doesn't lose his soul will lose his life. Alma had to flee and hide to protect himself. In these days, exactly how does a person flee and hide? You could argue it is not possible.

It is quite simple actually, you can up and leave the organization. You can leave the church. For now, they aren’t hunting you down… for now.

Yes you can leave the church. But whose goals are met by people leaving church? God or Satan's? Did God give us spiritual armor to retreat? Shouldn't we be able to get the fiends out of our own church? If not, why? And one thing to remember is the fiends always set up a fall guy to take the blame. It's something we need to be careful, not to fire on good hearted people who are caught up without their knowledge.

The members LOVE the fiends. They praise them without ceasing. Monkeys see, then monkeys do. No one at church expresses ANY desire to quit being a monkey. They drive ME out when I point out the fiends.

tribrac wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:19 pm Many, many years ago I was in a small training meeting with then Elder Anderson of the 70.

I thought he was humble, authentic, sincere and relatable. By nature I am skeptical of people, and usually takes time for me to trust a person, but I took a near instant liking of him. I still like him today.

I can't explain his recent words or actions. I would say they seem to me to be a sharp contrast to my interaction with him and his talks prior to Nelson being in command.

Those who took the vaxx unrepentantly are not what they used to be. They seem cut off, spiritually, and are more prone to following men without question.

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:54 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:50 am

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:46 am If a prophet speaks the word of God we reverence it because it is the word of God. Can a man be a president of our church and not be a prophet? I would think the answer is yes. We know that King Noah had priests surrounding him and of all the people in scripture they became the most wicked. When a true prophet spoke to them, they killed him. The problem is that King Noah was a King. In other words, he had status and worldly power. It forced the priests to lose their souls. A priest in that condition who doesn't lose his soul will lose his life. Alma had to flee and hide to protect himself. In these days, exactly how does a person flee and hide? You could argue it is not possible.

It is quite simple actually, you can up and leave the organization. You can leave the church. For now, they aren’t hunting you down… for now.

Yes you can leave the church. But whose goals are met by people leaving church? God or Satan's?
I think it depends. Whose goals were met by Lehi's family leaving Jerusalem? If the church has been corrupted then staying would serve Satan's goals. When this happened in the BOM the righteous had to separate. The physical church may look to be intact but may in fact be rotting.

Did God give us spiritual armor to retreat?
I haven't officially left yet but I haven't been back to church in nearly 4 years. I use spiritual armor all the time and sometimes against members who attack me. Protective armor and weaponry can be very useful in battle but spiritual intel is perhaps more important. The church tends to disarm its members through conditioning.

Shouldn't we be able to get the fiends out of our own church?
YES

If not, why?
Because of the power dynamics in the church. Common consent is dead. Members who tell others about fiends will be removed and their removal supported by conditioned members. Sometimes members even blame the person who was removed rather than take notice of any problem. There aren't enough members willing to push back to make changes.

And one thing to remember is the fiends always set up a fall guy to take the blame. It's something we need to be careful, not to fire on good hearted people who are caught up without their knowledge.
Good hearted people don't deserve fire. I wouldn't call for firing on anyone. I think if people just stop following that would be enough. It is worth noting that so called good hearted people watch and participate in other good hearted people get kicked out of the church. Don't they call it a court of love now? When it comes to the church and who we follow we just need good discernment and a commitment to following that discernment no matter what. So many good people are programmed to such an extent that they fight to stay asleep. It seems like so many are striving for that perfect proverbial attendance record (box checking) instead of striving to fix anything that might involve personal risk.

You bring up some good questions. I added my opinion in red.

tribrac wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:19 pm Many, many years ago I was in a small training meeting with then Elder Anderson of the 70.

I thought he was humble, authentic, sincere and relatable. By nature I am skeptical of people, and usually takes time for me to trust a person, but I took a near instant liking of him. I still like him today.

I can't explain his recent words or actions. I would say they seem to me to be a sharp contrast to my interaction with him and his talks prior to Nelson being in command.

That's interesting. I wonder what prompted this uncharacteristic behavior. I wonder if he was assigned to talk like this. One time my wife was trying to get my teen son a job he didn't want and made him talk to our friend who was hiring. The person doing the hiring asked my son why he wanted to work there. My son said, "my mom asked me to." That was the end of the interview. Perhaps Anderson is just better at hiding it than my son I wonder if this baring testimony of the corporate sole is on some sort of official job list they must comply with on a regular basis. I wonder if GA's sign a contract to do x for x. I'm not talking about an NDA but an actual employment contract that stipulates what they shall and shall not do.

RMN is talked about more than any other president. I don't think that's organic. Andersen drops his name more than anyone. This is two years old, from the Tribune:

"Naming Nelson

When the prophet speaks … fellow church leaders like to quote him.

And apostle Neil L. Andersen quotes — and notes — church President Russell M. Nelson in his General Conference speeches more than any of his colleagues do.

Researcher Christian Anderson crunched the data and discovered Andersen has mentioned, quoted or footnoted the church’s prophet 98 times in conference since Nelson became president, including 23 in his most recent sermon."

23 times in one talk! lol.

"Apostle Quentin L. Cook ranks a distant second at 64, according to Anderson, followed by Nelson’s first counselor in the governing First Presidency, Dallin H. Oaks, at 62, apostle Ronald A. Rasband (57, including 18 in this month’s talk), second counselor Henry B. Eyring (55), apostles Gary E. Stevenson (52), D. Todd Christofferson (35), Dale G. Renlund (31) and David A. Bednar (30)."

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/10 ... -land-see/

Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:43 pm

Juliet wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:54 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:50 am

It is quite simple actually, you can up and leave the organization. You can leave the church. For now, they aren’t hunting you down… for now.

Yes you can leave the church. But whose goals are met by people leaving church? God or Satan's?
I think it depends. Whose goals were met by Lehi's family leaving Jerusalem? If the church has been corrupted then staying would serve Satan's goals. When this happened in the BOM the righteous had to separate. The physical church may look to be intact but may in fact be rotting.

Did God give us spiritual armor to retreat?
I haven't officially left yet but I haven't been back to church in nearly 4 years. I use spiritual armor all the time and sometimes against members who attack me. Protective armor and weaponry can be very useful in battle but spiritual intel is perhaps more important. The church tends to disarm its members through conditioning.

Shouldn't we be able to get the fiends out of our own church?
YES

If not, why?
Because of the power dynamics in the church. Common consent is dead. Members who tell others about fiends will be removed and their removal supported by conditioned members. Sometimes members even blame the person who was removed rather than take notice of any problem. There aren't enough members willing to push back to make changes.

And one thing to remember is the fiends always set up a fall guy to take the blame. It's something we need to be careful, not to fire on good hearted people who are caught up without their knowledge.
Good hearted people don't deserve fire. I wouldn't call for firing on anyone. I think if people just stop following that would be enough. It is worth noting that so called good hearted people watch and participate in other good hearted people get kicked out of the church. Don't they call it a court of love now? When it comes to the church and who we follow we just need good discernment and a commitment to following that discernment no matter what. So many good people are programmed to such an extent that they fight to stay asleep. It seems like so many are striving for that perfect proverbial attendance record (box checking) instead of striving to fix anything that might involve personal risk.

You bring up some good questions. I added my opinion in red.

Thank you I really appreciate your comments.

In my ward and those I visit while traveling (none of which is Wasatch Front) at least in Sacrament meeting talks I hear very little mention of the church leadership. I infer from this that members get their fill talking about the "brethren" in RS and EQ and don't feel the need to pile on deeper. On those Sundays where there is Sunday School and with this year being the study of the New Testament, the content shared in the block of meetings in my Ward can be 100% consistent with Protestant Christianity. I don't say that as a compliment but it is better than the alternative of hero worship.

There is a real dissonance between the leadership and the membership. Unless coerced, the membership I see is restrained and guarded in their praise of leadership. I would offer that a real factor is members simply don't see much to make them enthusiastic cheerleaders for the "brethren". Church media tries very hard to give the general membership reasons to gush about the accomplishments of church leadership, but the church has grown so large the distance between the members and the high leadership and what the leadership actually does for members is a chasm.

And that would be ok and understandable. First, because there is no reason for and in fact is a sin for Christians to idolize their leaders. Second, churches should be democratic - they should have a flat hierarchy. More importantly they should be self sufficient and self reliant with decisions made and programs run locally. If this were the case the focus would be on local leadership and how well they served the needs of the members. The LDS church culture deflects attention and responsibility from local leaders to distant church officers who do not have any actual responsibility over local members but who claim credit for any good local members experience. This is not only wrong but it is corrosive to the church. Having apostles like Elder Andersen pattern adulation of the church president is the wrong message and wrong example.

tmac wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:27 am

Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:17 pm Elder Andersen one of the absolute worst RMN sycophants among the GAs, posted this on Twitter today:

“Who could we trust more than President Nelson? Of course, he’s the Lord’s prophet—he’s the president of the Church—but even if he were not, what a life he has lived!”

What an absolutely absurd statement from a so-called Apostle of Jesus Christ. Idol worship at its finest. But it’s almost as if he’s saying, “Even if none of the rest of it is true, RMN is still quite a guy!” What a glowing endorsement for a Babylonian man, with no corresponding witness of Christ.

I recall a conference address by Elder Andersen within the last few years (I don't care enough to look it up) where he first spoke about Jesus and it was ho-hum. Nothing you couldn't find anywhere. But toward the end of the talk he began talking about RMN and was GUSHING. It was clear to me which of the two he actually knew.

"A phrase I was very intrigued with from President @NelsonRussellM's recent talk in general conference was “seek guidance from voices you can trust.”
It's simply unbelievable that ANYONE in the church has the nerve to say "seek guidance from voices that you can trust"...given the compete, utter and deadly screw-up on everything covid by Q15. They COULDN'T have been more WRONG if they tried.

Is it normalcy bias, cognitive dissonance or years of brainwashing that has members not seeing the obvious problem here??

The trust the "brethren" they won't lead you astray ship...sunk with their Godsend urging.

jack wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 2:22 pm

tmac wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 11:27 am

Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:17 pm Elder Andersen one of the absolute worst RMN sycophants among the GAs, posted this on Twitter today:

“Who could we trust more than President Nelson? Of course, he’s the Lord’s prophet—he’s the president of the Church—but even if he were not, what a life he has lived!”

What an absolutely absurd statement from a so-called Apostle of Jesus Christ. Idol worship at its finest. But it’s almost as if he’s saying, “Even if none of the rest of it is true, RMN is still quite a guy!” What a glowing endorsement for a Babylonian man, with no corresponding witness of Christ.

I recall a conference address by Elder Andersen within the last few years (I don't care enough to look it up) where he first spoke about Jesus and it was ho-hum. Nothing you couldn't find anywhere. But toward the end of the talk he began talking about RMN and was GUSHING. It was clear to me which of the two he actually knew.

This is a *really* good observation imo.

Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:55 pm I wonder if this baring testimony of the corporate sole is on some sort of official job list they must comply with on a regular basis. I wonder if GA's sign a contract to do x for x. I'm not talking about an NDA but an actual employment contract that stipulates what they shall and shall not do.

This past Sunday was Fast and Testimony for our ward and we had a member of the Presidency of the Seventy visit (used to live in our stake) along with our stake president.

Out of all the ward members who bore a testimony not one mentioned prophets or church leaders. But the Seventy got up at the end and testified of Nelson. I wondered about if he was on assignment.

Our stake president has members reading all of Nelson’s talks since he took control and is planning our next stake conference around those talks. I’ve wondered if that was a suggestion given in trainings with the general authorities.

The heavy emphasis on Nelson is startling to me. Sure, there has always been talk about prophets before, but nothing that focused the members worldwide on a single man like we are seeing today.

Chip wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:39 pm

tribrac wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:19 pm Many, many years ago I was in a small training meeting with then Elder Anderson of the 70.

I thought he was humble, authentic, sincere and relatable. By nature I am skeptical of people, and usually takes time for me to trust a person, but I took a near instant liking of him. I still like him today.

I can't explain his recent words or actions. I would say they seem to me to be a sharp contrast to my interaction with him and his talks prior to Nelson being in command.

Those who took the vaxx unrepentantly are not what they used to be. They seem cut off, spiritually, and are more prone to following men without question.

It's very strange.

On a psychological level, it's almost as if they are doubling down on being scammed. Like as if they know on a subconscious level that it was wrong to do it, but don't want to admit it.

On a spiritual level, it seems like their connection to heaven may be cut off completely. But, I can't really judge the spiritual aspect. Just a weird feeling I get when speaking to them.

3Nephi18:25 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:25 pm I wondered about if he was on assignment.

Our stake president has members reading all of Nelson’s talks since he took control and is planning our next stake conference around those talks. I’ve wondered if that was a suggestion given in trainings with the general authorities.

Oh, absolutely.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:54 pm

Chip wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:39 pm

tribrac wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:19 pm Many, many years ago I was in a small training meeting with then Elder Anderson of the 70.

I thought he was humble, authentic, sincere and relatable. By nature I am skeptical of people, and usually takes time for me to trust a person, but I took a near instant liking of him. I still like him today.

I can't explain his recent words or actions. I would say they seem to me to be a sharp contrast to my interaction with him and his talks prior to Nelson being in command.

Those who took the vaxx unrepentantly are not what they used to be. They seem cut off, spiritually, and are more prone to following men without question.

It's very strange.

On a psychological level, it's almost as if they are doubling down on being scammed. Like as if they know on a subconscious level that it was wrong to do it, but don't want to admit it.

On a spiritual level, it seems like their connection to heaven may be cut off completely. But, I can't really judge the spiritual aspect. Just a weird feeling I get when speaking to them.

The best theory I can come up with is a partial-withdrawing of the holy ghost. It sounds bad I think but I don’t know what else to attribute it to. I think it has left the top leaders almost completely. I don’t know how they could say the things they are if they had the gift or even partial companionship of the holy ghost . It shows that the church is regressing and moving *away* from Christ as a body and *not* towards Him.

3Nephi18:25 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:25 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:55 pm I wonder if this baring testimony of the corporate sole is on some sort of official job list they must comply with on a regular basis. I wonder if GA's sign a contract to do x for x. I'm not talking about an NDA but an actual employment contract that stipulates what they shall and shall not do.

This past Sunday was Fast and Testimony for our ward and we had a member of the Presidency of the Seventy visit (used to live in our stake) along with our stake president.

Out of all the ward members who bore a testimony not one mentioned prophets or church leaders. But the Seventy got up at the end and testified of Nelson. I wondered about if he was on assignment.

Our stake president has members reading all of Nelson’s talks since he took control and is planning our next stake conference around those talks. I’ve wondered if that was a suggestion given in trainings with the general authorities.

The heavy emphasis on Nelson is startling to me. Sure, there has always been talk about prophets before, but nothing that focused the members worldwide on a single man like we are seeing today.

My wife has gone to BYU education week for the past roughly 30 years. This year she reported to me a noticeable change - that in every class she attended, the speaker quoted something from RMN. In every single class! Every class as if they all were on assignment to praise his name.

It looks like there’s differently a push to praise the man of flesh.

Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:27 am The video in the tweet is even worse. Andersen is just bragging and boasting in front of a framed picture of the two of them. These men make me sick.

https://x.com/andersenneill/status/1721 ... X959l0NNOA

Sickening freak show- such a clown

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 10:15 pm

3Nephi18:25 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:25 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 12:55 pm I wonder if this baring testimony of the corporate sole is on some sort of official job list they must comply with on a regular basis. I wonder if GA's sign a contract to do x for x. I'm not talking about an NDA but an actual employment contract that stipulates what they shall and shall not do.

This past Sunday was Fast and Testimony for our ward and we had a member of the Presidency of the Seventy visit (used to live in our stake) along with our stake president.

Out of all the ward members who bore a testimony not one mentioned prophets or church leaders. But the Seventy got up at the end and testified of Nelson. I wondered about if he was on assignment.

Our stake president has members reading all of Nelson’s talks since he took control and is planning our next stake conference around those talks. I’ve wondered if that was a suggestion given in trainings with the general authorities.

The heavy emphasis on Nelson is startling to me. Sure, there has always been talk about prophets before, but nothing that focused the members worldwide on a single man like we are seeing today.

My wife has gone to BYU education week for the past roughly 30 years. This year she reported to me a noticeable change - that in every class she attended, the speaker quoted something from RMN. In every single class! Every class as if they all were on assignment to praise his name.

It looks like there’s differently a push to praise the man of flesh.

Imagine being a high level church leader in a room with RMN instructing everyone to always refer to his quotes. Surely there must be at least a seventy or stake president somewhere who thinks this is odd...

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 6:28 am

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 10:15 pm

3Nephi18:25 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 9:25 pm

This past Sunday was Fast and Testimony for our ward and we had a member of the Presidency of the Seventy visit (used to live in our stake) along with our stake president.

Out of all the ward members who bore a testimony not one mentioned prophets or church leaders. But the Seventy got up at the end and testified of Nelson. I wondered about if he was on assignment.

Our stake president has members reading all of Nelson’s talks since he took control and is planning our next stake conference around those talks. I’ve wondered if that was a suggestion given in trainings with the general authorities.

The heavy emphasis on Nelson is startling to me. Sure, there has always been talk about prophets before, but nothing that focused the members worldwide on a single man like we are seeing today.

My wife has gone to BYU education week for the past roughly 30 years. This year she reported to me a noticeable change - that in every class she attended, the speaker quoted something from RMN. In every single class! Every class as if they all were on assignment to praise his name.

It looks like there’s differently a push to praise the man of flesh.

Imagine being a high level church leader in a room with RMN instructing everyone to always refer to his quotes. Surely there must be at least a seventy or stake president somewhere who thinks this is odd...

Everyone in the scriptures who has an encounter with Jesus comes away with a new type of of for Jesus. They just can’t stop talking about Him and how great He is.

Contrast that with the leaders of the church. They just can’t stop talking about RMN and how great he is.

They claim some very spiritual experiences. I almost don’t dare suggest it, but what if they in fact have had great spiritual experiences in the type of Alma 30:52-53

(“But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel”)

and instructed to tell the world about RMN

Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:27 am The video in the tweet is even worse. Andersen is just bragging and boasting in front of a framed picture of the two of them. These men make me sick.

https://x.com/andersenneill/status/1721 ... X959l0NNOA

I don't have an account, so I can't see the comments. What are the comments like? Any pushback?

Libertas Est Salus wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 7:28 am

Ebenezer wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 8:27 am The video in the tweet is even worse. Andersen is just bragging and boasting in front of a framed picture of the two of them. These men make me sick.

https://x.com/andersenneill/status/1721 ... X959l0NNOA

I don't have an account, so I can't see the comments. What are the comments like? Any pushback?

One individual is dominating the comments and probably has 50% of them and they are rather antagonistic towards the concept. If you throw those out, I’d say it’s a 50-50 split on those reaffirming Elder Anderson and those pushing back.

jack wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 7:16 am

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 6:28 am

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 10:15 pm

My wife has gone to BYU education week for the past roughly 30 years. This year she reported to me a noticeable change - that in every class she attended, the speaker quoted something from RMN. In every single class! Every class as if they all were on assignment to praise his name.

It looks like there’s differently a push to praise the man of flesh.

Imagine being a high level church leader in a room with RMN instructing everyone to always refer to his quotes. Surely there must be at least a seventy or stake president somewhere who thinks this is odd...

Everyone in the scriptures who has an encounter with Jesus comes away with a new type of of for Jesus. They just can’t stop talking about Him and how great He is.

Contrast that with the leaders of the church. They just can’t stop talking about RMN and how great he is.

They claim some very spiritual experiences. I almost don’t dare suggest it, but what if they in fact have had great spiritual experiences in the type of Alma 30:52-53

(“But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel”)

and instructed to tell the world about RMN

I think it is just the natural end result of years of the “follow the prophet” drum beat. I can think of two reasons for this craziness to happen .

1 - Those TBMs who have heard the beat all their lives grow up and are put into positions of leadership and naturally think they can help promote “the prophet” by mandating people who participate in the event they are in charge of have to quote RMN at least once just to help show their support for him.

2 - All those seeking for power and the glory of the world will automatically quote the leader of the organization they are trying to move up the ranks of, anytime they have a chance. Especially at a corporate stockholders meeting, like general conference. The more they can quote the leader the more they show the members that they are on the team. Like mentioned earlier in this thread, brown nosing fools.

The thing of it is, is that it has NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ! It’s just show and tell - show people that you follow a man and tell them what a great guy he is. Such foolishness!

Here we have so called apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ that are suppose to witness of Jesus Christ the Father of all creation, who spend their time testifying of a man! If they talked about Jesus as mush as they promote RMN this world would be a while different place.

Could these be the dogs that don’t bark?

“We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. ”--Russell M. Nelson

"We are thankful for the countless doctors, scientists, researchers, manufacturers, government leaders, and others who have performed the grueling work required to make this vaccine available. We have prayed often for this literal godsend."--Russell M. Nelson

jack wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 7:16 am

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 6:28 am

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 10:15 pm

My wife has gone to BYU education week for the past roughly 30 years. This year she reported to me a noticeable change - that in every class she attended, the speaker quoted something from RMN. In every single class! Every class as if they all were on assignment to praise his name.

It looks like there’s differently a push to praise the man of flesh.

Imagine being a high level church leader in a room with RMN instructing everyone to always refer to his quotes. Surely there must be at least a seventy or stake president somewhere who thinks this is odd...

Everyone in the scriptures who has an encounter with Jesus comes away with a new type of of for Jesus. They just can’t stop talking about Him and how great He is.

Contrast that with the leaders of the church. They just can’t stop talking about RMN and how great he is.

They claim some very spiritual experiences. I almost don’t dare suggest it, but what if they in fact have had great spiritual experiences in the type of Alma 30:52-53

(“But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel”)

and instructed to tell the world about RMN

We don’t hear much about the power of the adversary to appear as an angel of light or mimic some things the Gods of Light do, but I suspect the devil is in the details—like Rasband’s (think it was him) feeling a power come over him when Nelson was set apart. Yeah, no.