LDS Freedom Forum

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:40 am And I’ll take it a step farther. If you home school, and then send your kids to college, you might as well throw most of that effort out the window, because the vast majority of their fundamental values are going to get undone through the higher ed system. The proof is in the pudding. The record speaks for itself.

If they need a degree for their employment they should go work and take online classes where they aren’t as likely to be influenced by the liberal culture on campus. Perhaps they should even get educated in a trade which can’t be duplicated by AI.

Christianlee wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:48 am Perhaps they should even get educated in a trade which can’t be duplicated by AI.

Young people looking for a marketable skill should look at a job where a person works with his hands---and not hands on a keyboard. Any keyboard job can and will be replaced by AI.

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:29 am Fair enough. Let’s just say the modern education system. Is there any bigger tool?

The collapse of the family unit is bigger. Its where kids get their values and truths about life.

Its why I continue to live with my exwife to raise our girls. My kids have a solid moral foundation and was raised on christian values in the home, they go to one of the poorer district public schools but I aint worried because they believe me more then any teacher at school.

randyps wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:25 am

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:29 am Fair enough. Let’s just say the modern education system. Is there any bigger tool?

The collapse of the family unit is bigger. Its where kids get their values and truths about life.

Its why I continue to live with my exwife to raise our girls. My kids have a solid moral foundation and was raised on christian values in the home, they go to one of the poorer district public schools but I aint worried because they believe me more then any teacher at school.

It's nice that your ex lets you have a room in the house she will take if you get divorced. Schools now teach children that their parents are wrong. They teach children to hide things from their parents. They even offer the children incentives to get their parents in trouble. They also ask questions that are none of their business. Like how many guns are in the home? Where are they?

The indoctrinators are with your children most of their waking hours. Where are you. Aside from a few hours at or after dinner, your children are asleep.

I have fought with teachers. I have convinced teachers to quit and leave town. I have gathered hundreds of signatures in order to get a teacher fired. I have placed articles in the paper and on the radio about the incompetence of a specific teacher. I am willing to fight to the death. Most teachers are the scum of the earth. The lying &!@$#%$ and bastards go to church and pretend to worship God. You have to arm your children with truth. They need to report to you any time a teacher says anything different. Some of these POS even teach in Primary.

randyps wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:25 am

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:29 am Fair enough. Let’s just say the modern education system. Is there any bigger tool?

The collapse of the family unit is bigger. Its where kids get their values and truths about life.

Its why I continue to live with my exwife to raise our girls. My kids have a solid moral foundation and was raised on christian values in the home, they go to one of the poorer district public schools but I aint worried because they believe me more then any teacher at school.

I don’t envy your overconfidence. Let’s see how things look 10-20 years from now.

And, families were abdicating their role to the educational system long before the rampant demise of the family. In fact I know plenty of “solid” families who have turned their kids over to the world through the educational system(s), and they all seem to think that in the end they will have a bigger influence than the world, but it seldom turns out that way.

I and everyone in my family are products of that disastrous paradigm. I come from an intact TBM family. My parents were the first in their families to get college educations. Neither of their fathers graduated high school. But my parents had full faith and confidence in education and the education system, and pushed it hard. At this point, 2-3 generations later, it is a total disaster across the board. I would gladly trade the last three “educated” generations for the uneducated generations before them. At least those folks had a productive orientation, and knew how to work.

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 12:15 pm

randyps wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:25 am

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:29 am Fair enough. Let’s just say the modern education system. Is there any bigger tool?

The collapse of the family unit is bigger. Its where kids get their values and truths about life.

Its why I continue to live with my exwife to raise our girls. My kids have a solid moral foundation and was raised on christian values in the home, they go to one of the poorer district public schools but I aint worried because they believe me more then any teacher at school.

I don’t envy your overconfidence. Let’s see how things look 10-20 years from now.

And, families were abdicating their role to the educational system long before the rampant demise of the family. In fact I know plenty of “solid” families who have turned their kids over to the world through the educational system(s), and they all seem to think that in the end they will have a bigger influence than the world, but it seldom turns out that way.

I and everyone in my family are products of that disastrous paradigm. I come from an intact TBM family. My parents were the first in their families to get college educations. Neither of their fathers graduated high school. But my parents had full faith and confidence in education and the education system, and pushed it hard. At this point, 2-3 generations later, it is a total disaster across the board. I would gladly trade the last three “educated” generations for the uneducated generations before them. At least those folks had a productive orientation, and knew how to work.

Also reflects on the strength of the "TBM" church, imho.
40 years ago, people were attracted to Mormonism, not based on any special doctrine, but they saw the strength of their families, saw the gospel exemplified in real life and wanted that for themselves.
I think we still have RELATIVELY strong families, but it is ONLY relative to the rest of the world. Objectively measuring against the past, we have backslid along with the rest of the world. And like tmac is saying (I think) a lot of this can be laid at the feet of what WE HAVE ALLOWED to be taught to our kids for 13 years, 9 months of the year.

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 12:15 pm

randyps wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:25 am

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:29 am Fair enough. Let’s just say the modern education system. Is there any bigger tool?

The collapse of the family unit is bigger. Its where kids get their values and truths about life.

Its why I continue to live with my exwife to raise our girls. My kids have a solid moral foundation and was raised on christian values in the home, they go to one of the poorer district public schools but I aint worried because they believe me more then any teacher at school.

I don’t envy your overconfidence. Let’s see how things look 10-20 years from now.

And, families were abdicating their role to the educational system long before the rampant demise of the family. In fact I know plenty of “solid” families who have turned their kids over to the world through the educational system(s), and they all seem to think that in the end they will have a bigger influence than the world, but it seldom turns out that way.

I and everyone in my family are products of that disastrous paradigm. I come from an intact TBM family. My parents were the first in their families to get college educations. Neither of their fathers graduated high school. But my parents had full faith and confidence in education and the education system, and pushed it hard. At this point, 2-3 generations later, it is a total disaster across the board. I would gladly trade the last three “educated” generations for the uneducated generations before them. At least those folks had a productive orientation, and knew how to work.

There are kids from broken down households that have no option but being raised in the k-12 schooling system. Thats a family unit problem. No father, mother working 2 jobs.

I have no words for the middle class family that allow their kids to be raised and influenced in the system, but its still a family unit decision and therefore a family unit problem.

There’s no question, there are plenty of kids who have no other option as a result of the demise of the nuclear family. But, with even the middle class and intact families relying on the education system as full day care for working parents, kids don’t hardly stand a fight chance.

Christianlee wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 5:17 pm Hamas sympathizers seem to be all over the place. Polls of younger people indicate they favor Hamas. Will it take another terrorist attack to wake us up?

Bro you're being propagandised. This subject totally exposes the false dialectic of american politics of "right" vs "left", and how oftentimes conservatives are just as dumb as leftists. Progressive/socialist young people who support Hamas because they idiotically see the conflict through the lens of "white oppressor vs brown person" are indeed retarded, but so are the boomer conservatives with a bogus traditional fetish for Jews and Israel. Israel is not our friend, and Judaism is not a friend of Christianity, cope and seethe.

In reality you need to wake up just as much as anyone, there are malicious and intelligent forces that are very invested in harnessing the angst of parochial conservatives and re-directing it to feeding the pointless, stupid attitude of "those darn leftists", as if that's the actual source of our problems or the means of formulating a real solution. News media on either side is not motivated by truth.

Imo the only good take here as a western citizen is to realise that no side is the correct side, no side is "God's chosen", no side is the "obvious moral choice", the real victims are the innocent civilians (interesting how acceptable it is to dehumanise Palestinian innocents), and maybe the common sense perspective for America is to tend to their own affairs, root-out Israeli snake coils in american political trappings, and let the sand people play in the sand, like why the need bomb them in mass slaughter, proper james bond villain mentality.

And as for 9/11, Israel may well have orchestrated that. They may realise that the *enchanted* boomer generation won't be around much longer and now is the time if any to make another move while the getting's good, but I speculate.

abijah wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 5:44 pm

Christianlee wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 5:17 pm Hamas sympathizers seem to be all over the place. Polls of younger people indicate they favor Hamas. Will it take another terrorist attack to wake us up?

Bro you're being propagandised. This subject totally exposes the false dialectic of american politics of "right" vs "left", and how oftentimes conservatives are just as dumb as leftists. Progressive/socialist young people who support Hamas because they idiotically see the conflict through the lens of "white oppressor vs brown person" are indeed retarded, but so are the boomer conservatives with a bogus fetish for Jews and Israel. Israel is not our friend, and Judaism is not a friend of Christianity, cope and seethe.

In reality you need to wake up just as much as anyone, there are malicious and intelligent forces that are very invested in harnessing the angst of parochial conservatives and re-directing it to feeding the pointless, stupid attitude of "those darn leftists", as if that's the actual source of our problems or the means of formulating a real solution. News media on either side is not motivated by truth.

Imo the only good take here as a western citizen is to realise that no side is the correct side, no side is "God's chosen", no side is the "obvious moral choice", the real victims are the innocent civilians (interesting how acceptable it is to dehumanise Palestinian innocents), and maybe the common sense perspective for America is to tend to their own affairs, root-out Israeli snake coils in american political networks, and let the sand people play in the sand, like why the need bomb them in mass slaughter, proper james bond villain mentality.

And as for 9/11, Israel likely orchestrated that.

I remember watching the Palestinians after 9-11 cheering. The Palestinian citizens are being used as human shields by Hamas. That’s a fact. The only hope for them is for Hamas to be defeated. That is not a left or right issue. I have no use for your propaganda. I have no idea what your religious background is, but you seemed to have been brainwashed by somebody to hate Jews.

Christianlee wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 6:17 pmI remember watching the Palestinians after 9-11 cheering.

Well that's reprehensible, but also, obviously they would be glad. America supports Israel with weapons and money, who in turn use that support to kill them while the West cheers. They might suck still, but I won't ascribe some high level of evil against them for being passively glad from the sidelines.

Whereas symbolism of *dancing* is interesting in terms of occult spiritual teachings related to raising order from the dust of destruction. Makes me think of Audrey Horne in Twin Peaks, dancing in heels that flicker from red to black-and-white.

The Palestinian citizens are being used as human shields by Hamas.

Wow, you repeated this narrative-driven superficial imagery every news outlet under the sun is bent on repeating, as if this is the be-all-end-all of the situation, and as if we've heard the other side of the story (there is one, whether you like it or not). I don't like Hamas, and I don't have some special kinship or favour to Palestinians, but I also realise warfare propaganda when I see it and have some discernment to see who controls the storyline, that it's not the comic-book/cartoon style of "good vs evil" that its presented to be through skillful camerawork and clever reporting. When in reality you are propagandised by Jews to hate their enemies, fight their wars, and they're smart enough to infiltrate and influence the "right-wing" media you trust so much.

quote=Christianlee wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 6:17 pm Its The only hope for them is for Hamas to be defeated.

Sure, "as long as Hamas is defeated", how many slaughtered innocent civilians does that include as collateral? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? James bond villain mentality.

quote=Christianlee wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 6:17 pmThat is not a left or right issue.

Yeah I wonder why that is.

Christianlee wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 6:17 pmI have no use for your propaganda. I have no idea what your religious background is, but you seemed to have been brainwashed by somebody to hate Jews.

I think you are more the victim of propaganda here (though it's possible I am too), and influenced by the silly american tradition that elevates modern Jews as some kind of mystical talisman of a people, or the modern fire-purchased state of 'Israel' being 'the' manifestation of biblical prophecy, when the scriptures are clear on who the covenant actually belongs to, which is the believers and followers of Jesus of Nazareth.

I don't dislike Jews more than any other group of people, but I feel a need to push back against people with bizarre, theologically-incoherent sacred/political cows that are incongruent with reality.

Voyager wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 10:52 pm

Fred wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 6:09 pm What we need to realize is that our leaders are liars. Not merely mistaken. Purposefully telling lies in order to help satan sit on the throne. Even our church leaders are lying pricks that delight in helping satan. There is only one source that can be trusted. It is illegal to teach truth in school. People that allow their children to attend public school are playing Hell Roulette with their lives. If the child believes the teachers, Hell is the likely end destination. And yet, school teachers are given more and more money each year to help satan gain full power. Even so, we allow them to associate with us and our children. We overlook that they are one of satan's greatest tools. Very few people will exert as much energy to destroy a child's life as a school teacher.

Until we wake up and realize that God is the only viable answer, we are doomed.

Can you give a real example of a regular teacher leading students to hell? I don't mean the most outrageous examples that you find on the internet or the news, I don't mean blanket generalizations, I don't mean some anecdotal example from someone who heard it from someone else, or something from a while ago, or that one teacher in the news that abused kids out of the 100+ other faculty members that are regular law-abiding citizens. I'm talking AVERAGE since you are convinced all of them are disciples of satan.

How, for instance, would an average English, math, or ag sciences teacher at a regular school teach everyone to be followers of satan? You walk into the classroom, what is happening in there? Describe the typical day of satanic indoctrination.

You didn't ask me but here's my commentary. I think asking for examples but only if they meet these criteria is unreasonable:

Must be a real example of a teacher leading students to hell.
Must be a non-outrageous example of a teacher leading students to hell.
Can't be on the internet or on the news.
No generalizations.
Can't be an anecdotal example heard from someone else but you will accept anecdotal stories as long as Fred has first-hand knowledge.
Has to be recent.
It doesn't count if the teacher was in the news and they were the only teacher who abused students at that school.
Must be average law-abiding citizens (as if a real disciple of satan has to break laws since leading people to hell is only done through law breaking).

Anything that falls outside of these parameters can't be counted as evidence of teachers leading kids to hell. Fred said, "People that allow their children to attend public school are playing Hell Roulette with their lives." Then he mentioned teachers but I don't think he meant only teachers here. The hellish influence doesn't just come from teachers. IMO this statement implied that just letting kids attend public school is Hell Roulette. This Hell Roulette encompasses way more than just teachers.

You said:
"I'm talking AVERAGE since you are convinced all of them are disciples of satan."
"How, for instance, would an average English, math, or ag sciences teacher at a regular school teach everyone to be followers of satan?."

Fred's term Hell Roulette implies some sort of game of chance. If chance is involved then not all teachers are leading kids to hell and not every student will be led to hell. Fred says parents are taking a spiritual chance by sending kids to public school. I think everyone who has attended school or has children in school is aware of this danger. For some reason calling out teachers struck a nerve with you. Do you or a close loved one work for a school system? The education system employs so many people that it's hard to find anyone without ties to someone working for the system so I won't be surprised if you say yes just based on the odds.

I think it's interesting that you want a first-hand account but discount anything on the internet or on the news. If Fred just tells you a story you have to believe him or say he's making it up. At least a news story can be verified in some way, unlike any story Fred would tell. You have all of these disqualifying criteria of what counts as an example and yet you'll only accept an unverifiable story from Fred. He could probably just make up a story to make his point and my guess is if it seemed outlandish you might just just deny it. Leading children to hell is always an outrageous endeavor IMO but it doesn't need to be loud and obvious. Oftentimes it is slow and quiet. Haven't you seen tons of average teachers posting their LGBTQ/CRT classroom tactics on their personal social media pages?

I have found dozens and dozens. I have seen children catch it on video during class but that won't be accepted as evidence under your criteria. How about the sort of pornographic gender-bending, racist, and anti-American library books allowed in schools today? Teaching kids that gender is fluid is satanic. There are entire school sex ed curriculums that change the term female to "person with a vagina." I could show you this curriculum but it's also on the internet. Where are the teachers boycotting the filth on behalf of the students? Parents are doing it while the teachers keep quiet for the most part. I have seen teachers claim they quit teaching because they refuse to push these agendas. Where are all these average teachers pushing back on this crap? A few have but the average majority just say their hands are tied and they need to keep their job so they can't stop anything but they just love the children they teach.

It just seems like you changed the meaning of his post a little and then asked him to prove that satanic teachings are being taught by average teachers and then disallowed most verifiable sources and said, "show me the evidence." Looking at some of your posts you seem pretty reasonable and clued in. Certainly, you can see satanic influences coming from average teachers and students in public schools right? I would never say every teacher but too many teach their twisted morals to students.

abijah wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 6:30 pm
.... I think you are more the victim of propaganda here, and influenced by the silly american tradition that elevates modern Jews as some kind of mystical talisman of a people, when the scriptures are clear on who the covenant actually belongs to.

I don't dislike jews, but I feel a need to push back against people with bizarre, theologically-incoherent sacred cows that are incongruent with reality.

The reality is everytime we start trying to meddle with Israel/Jerusalem, or try to negotiate a 2 state solution, we as a nation, pay for it. When Ariel Sharon gave the Gaza Strip over to the Palestinians, he had a massive stroke that left him in a coma for 8 years until he died (perhaps because he forgot Leviticus 25:23, "The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.").

And simultaneously we had Hurricane Katrina hit the "West Bank" of New Orleans as the Jewish settlers were being forcibly removed from their homes, because of President Bush Jr's wanting a 2 state solution.

The modern Jews are not a righteous bunch for sure, but they are still "chosen" by God to deal with the rest of the nations. The Jewish Messiah paid for the sins of the entire world. Their rejection of Him was what opened the door for the rest of humanity. It was prophesied in Isaiah that they would reject Him. The nations are judged on how they treat them. Zephaniah 2 is coming to pass right now.

Zechariah chapter 13 says 2 out of 3 Jews will be killed in the last days, and chapter 14 describes how Jesus Christ will split the Mount of Olives into a "✝" to save the remnant third. I will just trust God to separate the sheep from the goats. This would not be possible without God using the wicked Zionists/evil Rothchilds, etc., as His mere tools to create the modern state of Israel.

This interview from 10 years ago is still relevant, and Romans chapter 11 has no expiration date. I had to rethink my old attitudes regarding the "synagogue of satan," "fake Jews," 'Khazarians," "brood of vipers," 'Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion'" thing, and put them in check.

@~7:00 is when he talks about the Gaza Strip related to Hurricane Katrina.

Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 8:07 pm You didn't ask me but here's my commentary. I think asking for examples but only if they meet these criteria is unreasonable:

Must be a real example of a teacher leading students to hell.
Must be a non-outrageous example of a teacher leading students to hell.
Can't be on the internet or on the news.
No generalizations.
Can't be an anecdotal example heard from someone else but you will accept anecdotal stories as long as Fred has first-hand knowledge.
Has to be recent.
It doesn't count if the teacher was in the news and they were the only teacher who abused students at that school.
Must be average law-abiding citizens (as if a real disciple of satan has to break laws since leading people to hell is only done through law breaking).

Anything that falls outside of these parameters can't be counted as evidence of teachers leading kids to hell. Fred said, "People that allow their children to attend public school are playing Hell Roulette with their lives." Then he mentioned teachers but I don't think he meant only teachers here. The hellish influence doesn't just come from teachers. IMO this statement implied that just letting kids attend public school is Hell Roulette. This Hell Roulette encompasses way more than just teachers.

You said:
"I'm talking AVERAGE since you are convinced all of them are disciples of satan."
"How, for instance, would an average English, math, or ag sciences teacher at a regular school teach everyone to be followers of satan?."

Fred's term Hell Roulette implies some sort of game of chance. If chance is involved then not all teachers are leading kids to hell and not every student will be led to hell. Fred says parents are taking a spiritual chance by sending kids to public school. I think everyone who has attended school or has children in school is aware of this danger. For some reason calling out teachers struck a nerve with you. Do you or a close loved one work for a school system? The education system employs so many people that it's hard to find anyone without ties to someone working for the system so I won't be surprised if you say yes just based on the odds.

I think it's interesting that you want a first-hand account but discount anything on the internet or on the news. If Fred just tells you a story you have to believe him or say he's making it up. At least a news story can be verified in some way, unlike any story Fred would tell. You have all of these disqualifying criteria of what counts as an example and yet you'll only accept an unverifiable story from Fred. He could probably just make up a story to make his point and my guess is if it seemed outlandish you might just just deny it. Leading children to hell is always an outrageous endeavor IMO but it doesn't need to be loud and obvious. Oftentimes it is slow and quiet. Haven't you seen tons of average teachers posting their LGBTQ/CRT classroom tactics on their personal social media pages?

I have found dozens and dozens. I have seen children catch it on video during class but that won't be accepted as evidence under your criteria. How about the sort of pornographic gender-bending, racist, and anti-American library books allowed in schools today? Teaching kids that gender is fluid is satanic. There are entire school sex ed curriculums that change the term female to "person with a vagina." I could show you this curriculum but it's also on the internet. Where are the teachers boycotting the filth on behalf of the students? Parents are doing it while the teachers keep quiet for the most part. I have seen teachers claim they quit teaching because they refuse to push these agendas. Where are all these average teachers pushing back on this crap? A few have but the average majority just say their hands are tied and they need to keep their job so they can't stop anything but they just love the children they teach.

It just seems like you changed the meaning of his post a little and then asked him to prove that satanic teachings are being taught by average teachers and then disallowed most verifiable sources and said, "show me the evidence." Looking at some of your posts you seem pretty reasonable and clued in. Certainly, you can see satanic influences coming from average teachers and students in public schools right? I would never say every teacher but too many teach their twisted morals to students.

The reason I felt the need to ask anything is because Fred tends to paint with a very broad brush, to the extent that I find it a bit ridiculous and unreasonable. Example: EVERYONE in [group] is 100% a disciple of satan; ANYONE who does/thinks [x] is going straight to hell, etc. Every once in a while I get sick of it. I have responded to some of his other posts in the past for similar reasons. While he makes some good points he tends to take them to extremes which I think hurts his case more than it helps it.

The reason for the many qualifiers is because I was curious to know his own personal experiences with the subject matter. My own observations have been that local schools are typically reflections of the communities they're in. The really psycho schools are unsurprisingly in the really psycho cities, whereas more stable family-oriented communities typically have more stable family-oriented values (there are obviously exceptions but I've found this to generally be the case). The system is deeply flawed but my own interactions with public educators in the places I've lived have been far more positive than negative, which is in part why I find Fred's over-generalizations to be unhelpful and asked for personal experiences.

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:40 am And I’ll take it a step farther. If you home school, and then send your kids to college, you might as well throw most of that effort out the window, because the vast majority of their fundamental values are going to get undone through the higher ed system. The proof is in the pudding. The record speaks for itself.

This is so depressing but true.

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 12:15 pm

randyps wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 11:25 am

tmac wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:29 am Fair enough. Let’s just say the modern education system. Is there any bigger tool?

The collapse of the family unit is bigger. Its where kids get their values and truths about life.

Its why I continue to live with my exwife to raise our girls. My kids have a solid moral foundation and was raised on christian values in the home, they go to one of the poorer district public schools but I aint worried because they believe me more then any teacher at school.

I don’t envy your overconfidence. Let’s see how things look 10-20 years from now.

And, families were abdicating their role to the educational system long before the rampant demise of the family. In fact I know plenty of “solid” families who have turned their kids over to the world through the educational system(s), and they all seem to think that in the end they will have a bigger influence than the world, but it seldom turns out that way.

I and everyone in my family are products of that disastrous paradigm. I come from an intact TBM family. My parents were the first in their families to get college educations. Neither of their fathers graduated high school. But my parents had full faith and confidence in education and the education system, and pushed it hard. At this point, 2-3 generations later, it is a total disaster across the board. I would gladly trade the last three “educated” generations for the uneducated generations before them. At least those folks had a productive orientation, and knew how to work.

I think that's part of their plan. Over-intellectualize most things to put it under the cult control of so-called "experts" while simultaneously draining work ethic and morals and abandoning common sense and basic logic.