Re: Church gave tithing info of wealthy members to O.U.R.
Posted: November 5th, 2023, 9:16 pm
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Do you feel as exploited as I do? Well, as I would feel, if I were wealthy and had had my tithing information sold, well not even sold, donated by the Church to Tim Ballard. I mean, the bake sale donors would feel pretty exploited, too. I suppose.
Same as church leaders in Jesus day...Atrasado wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 9:50 pmDo you feel as exploited as I do? Well, as I would feel, if I were wealthy and had had my tithing information sold, well not even sold, donated by the Church to Tim Ballard. I mean, the bake sale donors would feel pretty exploited, too. I suppose.
Wow. Just wow.
[Main Stream Mormon] Thank heavens we have prophets and apostles to keep these sort of things from happening in the Church. Wait a minute...the apostles are the ones that gave OUR the tithing data? Hmmm. That doesn't compute. Must delete obviously true yet still deeply false accusations from brain.
Ahhh...that's better.
I'm so glad we have prophets and apostles that keep us safe from from Tammy and Jim Baker and wolves in sheep's clothing.
____
Look, God is real and the Book of Mormon is clearly the word of God. It doesn't mean that these seemingly pious men are really men of God. That's where I got stuck. I thought one implied the other, and that's not the case. Look to God and live. Not to those moral derelicts sitting in Moses' seat.
This lady is pretty awesome! Something I missed that she pointed out in the video is this gem:
This chick is so annoying. I only made it through the first 10 minutes before I had to shut it off. I remember seeing her on John Dehlin’s show before too, and I thought she was annoying then too.
I have turned her off several times myself for being boring. I thought this one was different. To each their own.

Ya I find her to be hit or miss. Sometimes she’s coming at it from a pretty liberal perspective I feel but her info can be good at times imo.Fred wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 4:51 pmI have turned her off several times myself for being boring. I thought this one was different. To each their own.
Ok but did his secretary?Mamabear wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 4:50 am “Senior Latter-day Saint apostle ‘never released tithing records,’ church states“
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/11 ... t-apostle/
“A senior apostle with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “has never released tithing records to Operation Underground Railroad or any other organization,” a church spokesperson said Monday.
This denial comes in response to allegations — included in a new filing in a lawsuit against OUR and the group’s founder, Tim Ballard — that Davis County Attorney Troy Rawlings told OUR attorneys he had “evidence” that senior apostle M. Russell Ballard and/or other “church authorities” had provided the records to help the nonprofit anti-sex-trafficking organization target large donors or wealthy Latter-day Saint congregations.”
My only devil's advocate question is why are TPTB not circling the wagons around him then?Atrasado wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:00 am Think about all of this. Tim Ballard has a known associate of Gordon Bowen, Russ Ballard, as his good friend, protector, and investor. He has Sean Reyes, a well documented scumbag as his attorney general thug. He has other members of the Q15 as friends and investors. He has billionaires coming on his immoral cosplay adventures. He worked for the CIA and Homeland Security. This smells like TB is a cabalist, just like Bowen, Hamblin, Romney, and Leavitt. How else would he get away with this much crap for so long?
After all, these are sophisticated people and would do whatever they needed to do to vet TB. So, I'm reasonably confident they knew exactly what Ballard was doing, and were more than fine with it. Romney and Bowen coming after him is probably just a family fight. That's why he might lose in civil court, but nothing will really come of all this.
I wonder who he angered and how for them to turn on him like this.
sushi, why did you include this quote from BFJ at the end? I might be missing the connection here.sushi_chef wrote: ↑November 6th, 2023, 5:00 pm
""Benjamin Franklin Johnson“Of Brigham Young as President of the Church, I will again bear this as a faithful testimony that I do know and bear record that upon the head of Brigham Young as chief, with the Apostleship in full, was by the voice of the Prophet Joseph in my hearing, laid the full responsibility of bearing of[f] the kingdom of God to all the world . . . . [When Brigham Young first met Joseph Smith and spoke in tongues in the Adamic languaue the Prophet] at that time, made the prediction upon the head of Brigham Young that ‘at some period he would become the leader of the Church, and that there would be one danger to beset him, and that would be his love of wealth.’ These things were told to me by [Lyman R.] Sherman [i.e., Johnson’s brother-in-law] at near the time of their occurrence” (E. Dale LeBaron, Benjamin Franklin Johnson: Friend to the Prophets [Provo, Utah: Grandin Book Co., 1997], 232, 233).
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We think of the cabalists as monolithic. Although there is a master secret combination (see Ether 8:24 for evidence of this) the glimpse inside the "LDS Church of Satan" given through the Hamblin Sisters' witness statements leads me to believe that most of the time these secret combinations work in conjunction with each other, but not always in a lock-step fashion. It seems there can be disagreements and often rivalries inside these groups. Also, from the witness statements we read that members can be excommunicated from the groups, and one of the main crimes meriting excommunication is drawing too much attention. Tim Ballard is nothing if not a hound for attention.OPMissionary wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 9:43 amMy only devil's advocate question is why are TPTB not circling the wagons around him then?Atrasado wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:00 am Think about all of this. Tim Ballard has a known associate of Gordon Bowen, Russ Ballard, as his good friend, protector, and investor. He has Sean Reyes, a well documented scumbag as his attorney general thug. He has other members of the Q15 as friends and investors. He has billionaires coming on his immoral cosplay adventures. He worked for the CIA and Homeland Security. This smells like TB is a cabalist, just like Bowen, Hamblin, Romney, and Leavitt. How else would he get away with this much crap for so long?
After all, these are sophisticated people and would do whatever they needed to do to vet TB. So, I'm reasonably confident they knew exactly what Ballard was doing, and were more than fine with it. Romney and Bowen coming after him is probably just a family fight. That's why he might lose in civil court, but nothing will really come of all this.
I wonder who he angered and how for them to turn on him like this.
I have never heard of the Hamblin sisters personally.Atrasado wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 10:30 amWe think of the cabalists as monolithic. Although there is a master secret combination (see Ether 8:24 for evidence of this) the glimpse inside the "LDS Church of Satan" given through the Hamblin Sisters' witness statements leads me to believe that most of the time these secret combinations work in conjunction with each other, but not always in a lock-step fashion. It seems there can be disagreements and often rivalries inside these groups. Also, from the witness statements we read that members can be excommunicated from the groups, and one of the main crimes meriting excommunication is drawing too much attention. Tim Ballard is nothing if not a hound for attention.OPMissionary wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 9:43 amMy only devil's advocate question is why are TPTB not circling the wagons around him then?Atrasado wrote: ↑November 5th, 2023, 10:00 am Think about all of this. Tim Ballard has a known associate of Gordon Bowen, Russ Ballard, as his good friend, protector, and investor. He has Sean Reyes, a well documented scumbag as his attorney general thug. He has other members of the Q15 as friends and investors. He has billionaires coming on his immoral cosplay adventures. He worked for the CIA and Homeland Security. This smells like TB is a cabalist, just like Bowen, Hamblin, Romney, and Leavitt. How else would he get away with this much crap for so long?
After all, these are sophisticated people and would do whatever they needed to do to vet TB. So, I'm reasonably confident they knew exactly what Ballard was doing, and were more than fine with it. Romney and Bowen coming after him is probably just a family fight. That's why he might lose in civil court, but nothing will really come of all this.
I wonder who he angered and how for them to turn on him like this.
When David Hamblin started drawing too much attention apparently the LDSCoS Provo High Council excommunicated him, forced David and Rosie Hamblin to get divorced even though they didn't want to, and told the two older girls (if I remember correctly) that they could testify in court that Hamblin had abused and raped them, although they were given strict instructions that they could not mention anything else in court. Hamblin was told that no criminal proceedings would come out, but they wanted Hamblin to be humiliated.
Go-el made an allegation that Gordon Bowen was behind the letter that was sent to Vice News outing Tim Ballard and that the Hamblin sisters have alleged that Gordon Bowen was the punisher of the SLC LDSCoS High Council. It would make sense, then, that Bowen would be involved if Tim Ballard was excommunicated from the LDSCoS. That being said, they can't afford to take things too far. Prosecuting Tim Ballard would open up a can of worms that the LDSCoS would for obvious reasons prefer to remain closed. This is the exact reason the Hamblin sisters said that their father was not prosecuted, and it's why I surmise that Tim Ballard won't be prosecuted either.
Go to thelastamericanvagabond.com and read the Utah Ritualized Abuse Investigation. They have the witness statements embedded in one of the pages.OPMissionary wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 4:38 pmI have never heard of the Hamblin sisters personally.Atrasado wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 10:30 amWe think of the cabalists as monolithic. Although there is a master secret combination (see Ether 8:24 for evidence of this) the glimpse inside the "LDS Church of Satan" given through the Hamblin Sisters' witness statements leads me to believe that most of the time these secret combinations work in conjunction with each other, but not always in a lock-step fashion. It seems there can be disagreements and often rivalries inside these groups. Also, from the witness statements we read that members can be excommunicated from the groups, and one of the main crimes meriting excommunication is drawing too much attention. Tim Ballard is nothing if not a hound for attention.OPMissionary wrote: ↑November 7th, 2023, 9:43 am
My only devil's advocate question is why are TPTB not circling the wagons around him then?
When David Hamblin started drawing too much attention apparently the LDSCoS Provo High Council excommunicated him, forced David and Rosie Hamblin to get divorced even though they didn't want to, and told the two older girls (if I remember correctly) that they could testify in court that Hamblin had abused and raped them, although they were given strict instructions that they could not mention anything else in court. Hamblin was told that no criminal proceedings would come out, but they wanted Hamblin to be humiliated.
Go-el made an allegation that Gordon Bowen was behind the letter that was sent to Vice News outing Tim Ballard and that the Hamblin sisters have alleged that Gordon Bowen was the punisher of the SLC LDSCoS High Council. It would make sense, then, that Bowen would be involved if Tim Ballard was excommunicated from the LDSCoS. That being said, they can't afford to take things too far. Prosecuting Tim Ballard would open up a can of worms that the LDSCoS would for obvious reasons prefer to remain closed. This is the exact reason the Hamblin sisters said that their father was not prosecuted, and it's why I surmise that Tim Ballard won't be prosecuted either.
I am so saddened by Ballards lies and deception. We were so moved by the movie and now any traction that might have been gained has been erased.Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 1:33 pmWow! That's slightly damning. I thought this was interesting at the beginning:Bonhoeffer wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 9:57 am Don’t believe me? Check out this amended lawsuit in the Tim Ballard saga: https://www.scribd.com/document/6818633 ... llard-Case
Now go to line 71 and you’ll read:
The Davis County Investigation, according to OUR’s own internal documents, revealed that Elder M. Russell Ballard and other authorities from the Mormon Church, provided Mormon tithing records to OUR to help OUR target wealthy donors and wealthy Mormon Church Wards.
Also of interest is a letter included from Glenn Beck addressed to Tim Ballard on page 16, I’ve included a screenshot below. He has direct contact to apostle Neal Anderson who promises to get back to him soon, probably for damage control of Tim’s reputation spiraling out of control. How many of you can contact anyone in the Q15 at will and have them answer any questions? Didn’t think so.
"Plaintiffs bring these claims using pseudonyms pursuant to protect their safety from the general public and from the Defendants, given their propensity to intimidate those who dare to stand up to them. These are not the real initials of the victims. Once a proper protective order is in place, Plaintiffs will provide their identifying information to Defendants. Given that Ballard committed the acts complained of, he already knows their identities and despite his efforts to blast his face in social and mainstream media, should understand the importance of keeping the identity of a scared and sexually victimized women, private. Likewise, Defendant The Spear Fund, an alter-ego of Tim Ballard, issued a statement to the press stating that it knows the identities of these women."
I think we will know who these women and one man are by the end of this.
Point 2: Holy cow that's a lot of defendants!
Point 3: Holy crap read this stuff from the lawsuit.
51. OUR began claiming credit on its webpage and blog posts for work that other organizations were performing. See Exhibit G.
52. When these organizations started criticizing OUR on social media for its fraudulent hijacking of Plaintiff’s organization’s work, OUR and Tim Ballard began attacking them.
53. Some of these organizations reached out to the Davis County Investigation team based upon their experiences with OUR’s and Tim Ballard’s dishonesty and attacks, and what OUR was actually doing.
54. The Davis County Attorneys’ office issued subpoenas to some of these Complainants for them to provide certain documents and testimony related to its investigation of OUR. See Exhibit H.
55. Upon learning of these complaints, Attorney General Reyes would step in, and rather than investigate what OUR and Tim Ballard were doing, would intimidate the complainants
56. Some of these complainants became very nervous, which anxiety was justified as both Plaintiff and Troy Rawlings were threatened with a lawsuit by OUR and Tim Ballard, and OUR and Tim Ballard hired a law firm in San Fransisco to sue Troy Rawlings.
57. At this same time, others who had made complaints against OUR and Tim Ballard (critical and highly credible witnesses), began withdrawing their complaints based upon fear of retribution by OUR and Tim Ballard, thus impeding the Davis County Investigation. See Exhibit I.
58. The Davis County Investigation revealed that OUR and Tim Ballard were aware that allegations were being made that Ballard failed his CIA polygraph test, was on an unpaid intern at the CIA, and was fired from the CIA. See Exhibit J at p. 6, 58 (b).
59. OUR and Tim Ballard were aware that eight different women had complained to the Davis County Investigation that Ballard had engaged in sexual affairs with them. Id. at p. 6, 58 (a).
60. OUR and Tim Ballard were aware that the Davis County Attorney believed that Katherine Ballard had tampered with witnesses to impede them from cooperation with the Davis County Investigation. Id. at p. 7, 58 (f). 12
61. Troy Rawlings also believed that General Reyes “was guilty of witness tampering.”
62. Rawlings alleged to have written communications from AG Reyes to a witness requesting the witness not to cooperate with Rawlings in the Investigation.” Id. at p. 7, 58 (h).
63. OUR went to its de facto general counsel, Sean Reyes, and asked that a special prosecutor be appointed to prosecute Troy Rawlings. See Exhibit K.
64. Troy Rawlings went to Attorney General Sean Reyes and informed him of OUR’s threat to sue him, which General Reyes immediately informed Tim Ballard and OUR of Troy Rawlings’ concerns and deemed Mr. Rawlings’ statements as “false.” See Exhibit J at p. 5, 49.
65. Even as more fraud complaints came into General Reyes, he would immediately send them to Tim Ballard on his personal email, instead of his official Utah email. See Exhibit L.
66. At this time, Tim Ballard was ignoring his in-house counsel’s advice that what he was doing was illegal and unethical and could subject him to criminal liability from the Davis County Investigation and the Department of Justice. See Exhibit M.
67. Ballard claims to be blessed by Thom Harrison, both while Thom was alive, and through Spear President Ken Krogue, claiming to anoint Ballard as a chosen one, not subject to the jurisdiction of government and church authorities. See Exhibits N and O.
68. Ballard has been, until recently, business associates and close friends with Apostle and Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles M. Russell Ballard (“President Ballard”) of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
It looks like Katherine may have been involved in wrongdoing and seeing photos in a lawsuit was refreshing.
Meanwhile some of us have known how shady Tim is for the past 10 years. But it was a sacred cow for many people.fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 11:52 amThese are all pretty valid concerns to my mind also. I am somewhat bent out of shape about it.
He did seem just a bit “off” to me but I thought it was just pride/conceit or having a spotlight-loving type personality. I never imagined he was up to all he’s been accused of. Or that church leadership was as connected as claimed!creator wrote: ↑November 8th, 2023, 9:18 pmMeanwhile some of us have known how shady Tim is for the past 10 years. But it was a sacred cow for many people.fractal_light_harvest wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 11:52 amThese are all pretty valid concerns to my mind also. I am somewhat bent out of shape about it.
Pierre got his black eye. So I think he is ‘good’ now.Bonhoeffer wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 6:56 pmI haven’t read that yet, which lawsuit was that info in (of his wife visiting)?Seed Starter wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 6:37 pmSo crazy. I found it interesting he had family members on the board who let him leave without consequence other than leaving OUR. I honestly think the Brian Black alias (Tim's alias) helped him compartmentalize good Tim from bad Tim quite nicely. Tim Ballad didn't break covenants, Brian did... He's still responsible of course but I think that happened. I also found it interesting WW (I think) mentioned how Tim's wife arrived in BVI as a surprise and Tim ignored WW (ruse wife) and how odd that was to watch. If it was all professional why the cold shoulder when his wife shows up for a week?Bonhoeffer wrote: ↑November 4th, 2023, 6:19 pm
He most surely knew since he was let go from OUR in June or July. He says he resigned but he was forced out and according to this lawsuit he was allowed to choose the replacement CEO so maybe he still has his hand in the cookie jar so-to-speak. It looks from Glenn’s letter to him that his running for senator was also in the works.
Also, regarding “Brian Black,” reminds me of a certain “Pierre Delecto.” Wonder if he’s had his 2nd anointing and so he thinks he’s good? That or the crazy blessings he was given by Thom Harrison (author of Visions of Glory) gave him greater delusions of grandeur making him a savior in his own eyes. Those blessings can be found on pages 225 (exhibit N) and 229 (exhibit O) of the amended lawsuit https://www.scribd.com/document/6818633 ... llard-Case
The church response was not to simply deny it, but to refer to what the handbook says about tithing confidentiality. That, to me looks guilty.Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 9:47 am If this is true it is clearly in contravention of data protection laws. Not sure how tight they are in the US, but this would be a major breach, warranting criminal prosecution over here.