LDS Freedom Forum

So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exagerrated.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... eM6LygBi5k

The new missions are:

UTAH AREA:
SLC - East
Spanish Fork
Saratoga Springs

North America Central:
Missoula MT

North America Southeast:
Tallahassee FL
Charleston SC

North America Southwest:
Henderson NV
Dallas TX - South
El Paso TX

North America West:
Modesto CA

Mexico:
Puebla - East
Mexicali

Carribbean:
Santo Domingo DR - North

South America Northwest:
Cochabamba BO - South
Quito EC - West
Lima PE - Northeast

South America South:
La Serena CL
Tucuman AR

Brazil:
Manaus - South

Africa Central:
Nairobi KE - East
Kinshasa CD - South
Kolwezi CD

Africa South:
Antananarivo MG - South

Africa West:
Calabar NG
Port Harcourt NG - North
Accra GH - North
Takoradi GH
Bo SL

Europe North:
Porto PO

Europe Central:
Hamburg DE

Asia:
Phnom Penh KH - East
Bangkok TH - East

Asia North
Sendai JP

Philippines
Dumaguete
General Santos
Tuguegarao

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exagerrated.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... eM6LygBi5k

The new missions are:

UTAH AREA:
SLC - East
Spanish Fork
Saratoga Springs

North America Central:
Missoula MT

North America Southeast:
Tallahassee FL
Charleston SC

North America Southwest:
Henderson NV
Dallas TX - South
El Paso TX

North America West:
Modesto CA

Mexico:
Puebla - East
Mexicali

Carribbean:
Santo Domingo DR - North

South America Northwest:
Cochabamba BO - South
Quito EC - West
Lima PE - Northeast

South America South:
La Serena CL
Tucuman AR

Brazil:
Manaus - South

Africa Central:
Nairobi KE - East
Kinshasa CD - South
Kolwezi CD

Africa South:
Antananarivo MG - South

Africa West:
Calabar NG
Port Harcourt NG - North
Accra GH - North
Takoradi GH
Bo SL

Europe North:
Porto PO

Europe Central:
Hamburg DE

Asia:
Phnom Penh KH - East
Bangkok TH - East

Asia North
Sendai JP

Philippines
Dumaguete
General Santos
Tuguegarao

Some of these aren't really "new".
There was a Hamburg mission when I lived in Germany. I don't think closing a mission and then re-opening it counts.

My mission was dissolved and absorbed by surrounding missions. Years ago.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exagerrated.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... eM6LygBi5k

The new missions are:

UTAH AREA:
SLC - East
Spanish Fork
Saratoga Springs

North America Central:
Missoula MT

North America Southeast:
Tallahassee FL
Charleston SC

North America Southwest:
Henderson NV
Dallas TX - South
El Paso TX

North America West:
Modesto CA

Mexico:
Puebla - East
Mexicali

Carribbean:
Santo Domingo DR - North

South America Northwest:
Cochabamba BO - South
Quito EC - West
Lima PE - Northeast

South America South:
La Serena CL
Tucuman AR

Brazil:
Manaus - South

Africa Central:
Nairobi KE - East
Kinshasa CD - South
Kolwezi CD

Africa South:
Antananarivo MG - South

Africa West:
Calabar NG
Port Harcourt NG - North
Accra GH - North
Takoradi GH
Bo SL

Europe North:
Porto PO

Europe Central:
Hamburg DE

Asia:
Phnom Penh KH - East
Bangkok TH - East

Asia North
Sendai JP

Philippines
Dumaguete
General Santos
Tuguegarao

That's likely an inaccurate approach to growth numbers, etc. Anyone who knows anything about the details of missions, know that they can fluctuate by over a hundred missionaries or more, depending on the location, the need, etc.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exaggerated.

The article says there are now more than 72,000 missionaries. In 2013 there were 82,000.

The added option of "service mission" I think was a positive change.

This reminds me of how they created new stakes in my area by decreasing the size of the wards, creating more wards, and then setting up a new stake with fewer units in each stake. Two different stake presidents said this was exactly what was being done, not a rumor. One proof of this is that no new building have been built for the two new stakes I am personally involved with. We just put 4 wards in a building, and cross boundaries to borrow buildings from neighboring stakes.

creator wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:14 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exaggerated.

The article says there are now more than 72,000 missionaries. In 2013 there were 82,000.

The added option of "service mission" I think was a positive change.

IMO they should all be service missionaries and use some of that 100B to do a fantastic work. Let people ask about Jesus as they see the fruits.

Are they ramping up more missionaries where they built temples recently?

On the list Bangkok was included, a new temple just opened up a month or two ago

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:05 pm My mission was dissolved and absorbed by surrounding missions. Years ago.

What mission was that?

Hiker wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:33 pm Are they ramping up more missionaries where they built temples recently?

On the list Bangkok was included, a new temple just opened up a month or two ago

There's a few of them on that list.

The Puebla temple is about to have its open house and a third mission was created there.
A temple is under construction in Phnom Penh and in one of the Philippines missions that will be created.
Tucuman I think is another one in Argentina.

As for Serena CL, that one is created because that is some vast land between Viña del Mar and Antofagasta that could definitely use more missionaries.

creator wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:14 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exaggerated.

The article says there are now more than 72,000 missionaries. In 2013 there were 82,000.

The added option of "service mission" I think was a positive change.

I totally agree there. I think the 72k missionary total was as of April and the Church was predicting a further influx of missionaries. Time will tell.

I think I misjudge just how many rich guys there are in Draper/Alpine.

How many men can afford to take a 3 year sabbatical? On their on expense.

"Church leaders will create these new missions from existing missions. This adjustment will allow mission leaders to have more interaction with missionaries and more missionaries to be assigned to wards and branches."

So some missions are really just changing boundaries in some cases? Not new, but different then.

Then they say:
"More missionaries are serving now than the 69,000 who were sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ just before the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic."

I kind of glossed over that 69k number and was impressed by going from 56k to 72k missionaries. So they're up 3k since 2020? That seems like normal growth. Why even say what the count was in 2021? Are they trying to make it sound more impressive than it is? Why did it drop from 69k to 56k from 2020 to 2021? Wait I think I know. Show me a graph with a longer timescale so I can see what the data really means.
"The number of young teaching and service missionaries and senior missionaries has gone from 56,000 at the end of 2021 to 62,500 at the end of 2022 to today’s more than 72,000 (of which nearly 5,300 are senior missionaries)."

This will boost the numbers in the short term as well. They can count more missionaries sooner right away.
"Church leaders have also adjusted a policy: Prospective missionaries can submit their missionary recommendations up to 150 days prior to their availability date instead of 120 days."

Hiring more salespeople can mean you need more resources to handle incoming leads or it can be a sign of desperation. Has the church maximized its growth in countries where the church is well known? Hardly anything in Europe and not that many in USA or Canada. I live around one of these new areas and I would be surprised to see much come from there although we do have a lot of transplants here. The costco in that area is pretty busy on Sunday

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:40 pm

Hiker wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:33 pm Are they ramping up more missionaries where they built temples recently?

On the list Bangkok was included, a new temple just opened up a month or two ago

There's a few of them on that list.

The Puebla temple is about to have its open house and a third mission was created there.
A temple is under construction in Phnom Penh and in one of the Philippines missions that will be created.
Tucuman I think is another one in Argentina.

As for Serena CL, that one is created because that is some vast land between Viña del Mar and Antofagasta that could definitely use more missionaries.

A newish temple is in Saratoga Springs Utah as well. I would be very surprised if this area nets many converts.

Why can't they just leave it alone? KIDDING!

Moving deck chairs.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.

This is marketing, not growth.

Kind of like temple building now.

It is the Subway sandwich business model.

Going under? Build more so people will think it is more successful than it is and might check it out.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exagerrated.

So an expansionist viewpoint is proof of the success of the church? I'll match your "missions" and add 20 temples.

.

tribrac wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:47 pm I think I misjudge just how many rich guys there are in Draper/Alpine.

How many men can afford to take a 3 year sabbatical? On their on expense.

I believe that Mission Presidents get a benefit package. I'm not sure how much but it is probably pretty nice.

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 3:09 pm

tribrac wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:47 pm I think I misjudge just how many rich guys there are in Draper/Alpine.

How many men can afford to take a 3 year sabbatical? On their on expense.

I believe that Mission Presidents get a benefit package. I'm not sure how much but it is probably pretty nice.

It is very nice. Anybody have the old manual/pdf?

This is similar to what happened in 2013 with the double cohort of missionaries in a year. I think you're seeing the same thing in 2023 but this time it's not the age change causing it but COVID which caused a lot of people to not apply until things reopened again this year. We'll be back to 50k missionaries next year like what happened in 2014.

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 3:09 pm
I believe that Mission Presidents get a benefit package. I'm not sure how much but it is probably pretty nice.

They are paid a salary (the Church calls it a "living stipend," but a salary is what it is). They also have expenses reimbursed.

In theory, less well-off men could be called as mission presidents. They wouldn't have to have support from home or their salary paid from home, since they are paid a good salary. But, almost all mission presidents are already wealthy and from the Church network of elites (blood relatives or marriage). The Church isn't looking to find the best men possible, no matter what they do for work, because there is an unwritten "prosperity gospel" assumption (i.e., wealth shows that they are favored by God and able to multiply talents, like the parable, or they wouldn't be wealthy. Those who aren't already wealthy may be good enough people, as far as it goes, but they aren't SP or MP or GA material, or they would be wealthy). It's a circular argument.

Sunain wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 3:32 pm This is similar to what happened in 2013 with the double cohort of missionaries in a year. I think you're seeing the same thing in 2023 but this time it's not the age change causing it but COVID which caused a lot of people to not apply until things reopened again this year. We'll be back to 50k missionaries next year like what happened in 2014.

Demographically, though, isn't there a looming cliff (all things being equal, and excluding gamechanger events like end of days prophecy type things)?

Family size has plummeted over the last several decades, and LDS YA are marrying later (and, in turn, having even fewer kids).

Won't there be a statistical dearth of potential missionaries in general, even if activity and "serve" rates become astronomical?

I also see this affecting temple staffing and temple patronage, especially in parts of the world where the Church is fledgling. But, it will also affect the temple in the Mormon Corridor as well. It already is, and that's why I think they are trying to make things appointment-based.

I also see a real estate cliff in 20-30 years. They are building like mad to compensate for housing shortages, but what will happen when the Boomers and GenX die off and are replaced by increasingly smaller cohorts? Won't there be a glut of empty housing?

I my wife served in the Sendai Japan mission years ago. It was absorbed into Tokyo years back. So I know Sendai isn’t a new mission.

The mission I served in the 90s is now three missions. It was stateside amd covered a fairly large area. It would have taken the mission president a day and a half to drive to a zone conference. It was not uncommon for the missionaries in the outer areas to get in trouble or just not do anything. It was a good decision to make the mission smaller.