LDS Freedom Forum

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 4:12 pm Family size has plummeted over the last several decades, and LDS YA are marrying later (and, in turn, having even fewer kids).

Won't there be a statistical dearth of potential missionaries in general, even if activity and "serve" rates become astronomical?

Families in the church generally have a higher birth rate than the national average. But yes, I agree. The number of active members of the church keeps going down.

creator wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:14 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exaggerated.

The article says there are now more than 72,000 missionaries. In 2013 there were 82,000.

The added option of "service mission" I think was a positive change.

And in 2013 missions were still mostly inaccessible for sisters. The influx of sisters from the age change is the only thing propping up the deflated numbers even slightly. If it weren't for that change it would be painfully obvious how many fewer young men are serving compared with the past.

Sunain wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 6:15 pm
Families in the church generally have a higher birth rate than the national average. But yes, I agree. The number of active members of the church keeps going down.

I think the LDS advantage in birth rate is rapidly approaching there being no difference between LDS and non-LDS. And, with later marriages, there are fewer years to have kids, even for couples who want to have more than 2.

Rubicon wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 7:34 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 6:15 pm
Families in the church generally have a higher birth rate than the national average. But yes, I agree. The number of active members of the church keeps going down.

I think the LDS advantage in birth rate is rapidly approaching there being no difference between LDS and non-LDS. And, with later marriages, there are fewer years to have kids, even for couples who want to have more than 2.

You are correct about LDS birth rates dropping to match non LDS birth rates.

Also, it is not just the number of children a woman has, but at what age, that affect population growth.

Here is a simplified example. Say there is a family that the women consistently have 2 daughters at 20 years old.

Another family the women consistently have 2 daughters at 40 years old.

If the first woman dies at 80 years old she will have her 2 children, her 4 grandchildren and her 8 great grandchildren, and her 16 great great grandchildren at her funeral. 30 descendants total.

If the second woman also does at 80 years old she will have her 2 children and her 4 grandchildren at her funeral. 6 descendants total.

Now consider that less people are having any children. Currently, if a woman doesn't have a child by 30 she has a 50% chance of having no children at all.

People in general are on the way out and Mormons are no exception.

But a strange new trend has begun. Secular people are beginning to see the writing on the wall and chosing to have children with the understanding that their descendants will still be around to inherit the world while other family lines disappear.

It is fascinating, terrifying, and frankly I didn't expect it.

I watched the video and then wondered if:
a. They seek to bring more people to Christ
b. They want to raise living conditions (feed my sheep)
c. They want more tithe payers

Years ago, much effort was spent on Native Americans. Some of the efforts were bad like kidnapping their children and putting them in unsafe homes. But why didn't they go much farther? Many Natives still do not have electricity or running water. These are the people that inherit the earth. They may also be the boys from the mountains that save the day. Where are the chapels on the Reservations? Seems like most every tribe of Natives have stories of celestial visitations. Even the petroglyphs testify of it. God did not forget them. Why did the church?

Well that's almost as many new missions as there are new shell companies. Probably.

Don't forget the Holland prophesied there would be over 100,000 missionaries by 2019.

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=CMSID

So they call rich guys, make them richer? Serious?

And ask average guys to pay to serve as Sr. Missionary?

More missionaries means next to nothing if conversion rates are still low. During the missionary spike after the age change in 2013 they reduced the size of almost every area in my old mission due to the influx and the result was a bunch of bored missionaries in small heavily saturated areas with almost no impact on growth. It basically just gave them less to do since you can only knock on the same doors so many times. Social media was still considered apostate--until it wasn't, so maybe they have more to do now.

creator wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:14 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 11:52 am So it would appear that the reports of the Church's demise, are greatly exaggerated.

The article says there are now more than 72,000 missionaries. In 2013 there were 82,000.

The added option of "service mission" I think was a positive change.

About 1/5 of the missionaries in our ward are serving service mission (within 2 years).

tribrac wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 12:47 pm I think I misjudge just how many rich guys there are in Draper/Alpine.

How many men can afford to take a 3 year sabbatical? On their on expense.

Many rich guys in Draper/ Alpine/ the Jordans/ Bountiful/ St. George/ and all over the world.
Sabbatical on their work/ careers, but they still get money to live on.
Many do it because they are willing to hold to covenants they made.

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tribrac wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 9:52 pm So they call rich guys, make them richer? Serious?

And ask average guys to pay to serve as Sr. Missionary?

Mission Presidents get $150kbplus free tuition to church schools for their kids, car and expenses. W/o having to pay tithing on the “consecrated funds”

Doubtless 3rd World MP’s (Local Natives) are paid less.

Nevertheless, you don’t use your savings while you serve.

Got to have lots of missions. According to D&C the apostles only have authority over the missions. That is they were to defer to SP and HC (which was church FP as well in the multiple churches in Joseph's day) when formed. So, maybe making every where a mission grants them the authority the BY assumed after Joseph's death?

BTW I'm not saying BY's approach was wrong or against the Lord's will. What I am saying is that it just wasn't according to canonized scripture of then or now. So, I suppose they are ok since they are HP's but I don't see it because they are apostles, according to D&C that is... Also, I still don't find the priesthood definition of a PSR?