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NoTruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
HahahaTruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
Don't believe it. Do you believe JS was a deceiver? Not to mention Emma new husband cheater on her, do you think JS did that?TruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
Interesting for sure! And initially, I see it as plausible, though I’m still a bit skeptical since my whole life I believed JS was killed. Maybe JS did a mask while alive to try to make his death seem more real?TruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
This is complete rubbish.TruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
You are twisting my words.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 12:33 pmOf course not!!! When Joseph does it, it's obviously higher and holier! Duh!!! Everyone knows that!
I’m not saying I know enough it to draw a conclusion, but how can you be completely satisfied without better proof? Bidamon didn’t move to Nauvoo until 1846. Do we have marriage records for his previous marriages? Can he be located on a census (even then, how do we know his identity wasn’t assumed by JS)?Robin Hood wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 1:32 pmThis is complete rubbish.TruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
Lewis Bidamon was well known in the area. He knew Joseph and had traded with him. People in Nauvoo and the surrounding area knew who he was and who Joseph was, and they knew the difference.
Additionally, the second photo presented of Joseph is clearly not Joseph. Bidamon doesn't look like Joseph at all. Not only that, but Joseph was taller.
I did watch the video, and I don't think it demonstrated anything of the sort. In fact, if you look carefully there are a number of differences, including the hairline.Pazooka wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 2:33 pmI’m not saying I know enough it to draw a conclusion, but how can you be completely satisfied without better proof? Bidamon didn’t move to Nauvoo until 1846. Do we have marriage records for his previous marriages? Can he be located on a census (even then, how do we know his identity wasn’t assumed by JS)?Robin Hood wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 1:32 pmThis is complete rubbish.TruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
Lewis Bidamon was well known in the area. He knew Joseph and had traded with him. People in Nauvoo and the surrounding area knew who he was and who Joseph was, and they knew the difference.
Additionally, the second photo presented of Joseph is clearly not Joseph. Bidamon doesn't look like Joseph at all. Not only that, but Joseph was taller.
Where is the documentation from individuals with whom he had interaction before 1846?
Did you watch the video? Because he demonstrates how the photographs of Bidamon actually do look like Joseph Smith using overlays.
Just exploring possibilities, here.Robin Hood wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 2:57 pmI did watch the video, and I don't think it demonstrated anything of the sort. In fact, if you look carefully there are a number of differences, including the hairline.Pazooka wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 2:33 pmI’m not saying I know enough it to draw a conclusion, but how can you be completely satisfied without better proof? Bidamon didn’t move to Nauvoo until 1846. Do we have marriage records for his previous marriages? Can he be located on a census (even then, how do we know his identity wasn’t assumed by JS)?Robin Hood wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 1:32 pm
This is complete rubbish.
Lewis Bidamon was well known in the area. He knew Joseph and had traded with him. People in Nauvoo and the surrounding area knew who he was and who Joseph was, and they knew the difference.
Additionally, the second photo presented of Joseph is clearly not Joseph. Bidamon doesn't look like Joseph at all. Not only that, but Joseph was taller.
Where is the documentation from individuals with whom he had interaction before 1846?
Did you watch the video? Because he demonstrates how the photographs of Bidamon actually do look like Joseph Smith using overlays.
Although Bidamon didn't live in Nauvoo at the same time as Joseph, he wasn't far away and did business with him.
There's also the problem of Joseph's dead body to explain away. He even uses the death-mask to try to prove his point. The clue is in the word death-mask.
As soon as it was safe, Willard Richards and innkeeper Artois Hamilton moved John Taylor and the bodies of the two martyrs to the nearby Hamilton Hotel. At the first opportunity, Willard Richards penned the short message mentioned above to be delivered to Nauvoo. About this time, Joseph and Hyrum’s brother Samuel H. Smith arrived from Plymouth, Illinois, about 23 miles (37 km) southeast of Carthage, having outridden on horseback a group of attackers.
About midnight, Illinois governor Thomas Ford arrived and urged Willard Richards to write another message to the Saints in Nauvoo. In it, Willard Richards counseled, “Be still, be patient.” In a postscript to this message, Ford advised the Saints, “Defend yourselves until protection can be furnished [if] necessary.”
Friday, June 28
Just after sunrise, Latter-day Saint farmer Arza Adams delivered Willard Richards’s message to Nauvoo, where the news spread quickly. Adams observed, “It was a solemn time. Many a rosy cheek was wet with tears, both men and women.”
In the morning at the Hamilton Hotel, Willard Richards arranged for a guard of eight soldiers, provided by Governor Ford and General Deming, to travel with the bodies to Nauvoo. The bodies of Joseph and Hyrum were placed in rough oak boxes, covered with brush for protection from the sun, and loaded onto separate wagons. With one wagon driven by the innkeeper, Artois Hamilton, and the other driven by Samuel Smith, the procession slowly made its way to Nauvoo.
At about 3:00 p.m., the wagon procession arrived in Nauvoo. A group directed by the city marshal met the procession east of the temple and escorted the wagons to the Mansion House, where a crowd of several thousand was waiting in the streets. Willard Richards, William W. Phelps, and others spoke to the crowd. Richards urged the Saints not to seek revenge and called for a vote to support his proposition for peace, which the Saints present unanimously sustained.
That evening, after the bodies were prepared and impressions of the faces were taken for death masks, Joseph and Hyrum’s mother, Lucy, and other family members and relatives viewed the bodies. The coffins had been placed on tables in the Mansion House dining room. “A dry eye I did not behold,” relative Almira Mack Covey wrote.
The bodies were then prepared for the public viewing to be held the next morning. They were placed in lined coffins with a small glass square in the lids through which the public could see the faces of Joseph and Hyrum. The coffins were taken to the main floor parlor of the Mansion House and placed in outer boxes.
Saturday, June 29
For several hours, thousands passed through the Mansion House to view the fallen brothers. “Every heart is filled with sorrow, and the very streets of Nauvoo seem to mourn,” wrote Vilate Kimball to her husband, Heber C. Kimball. He, like many other members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, was serving a mission elsewhere.
Shortly after 5:00 p.m., the Saints gathered at the meeting ground west of the temple to hear William W. Phelps give the funeral sermon. In the meantime, at the Mansion House precautions were being taken because of reports that enemies planned to steal the bodies. The coffins, removed from their outer boxes, were locked in a bedroom. The outer boxes were filled with bags of sand, nailed shut, and driven past the crowd at the meeting ground. The boxes were then driven to the graveyard, where a mock burial took place.
You love wild goose chases.Pazooka wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 10:50 pm Ok ya’ll…this has got me seriously wondering.
Who, besides Masons, family and the closest of friends ever saw the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum? There were all these strange arrangements mentioned in the below account found on the Church’s website that are explained as a means of precaution but could just as easily be a way of duping thousands.
Caskets with small viewing windows were not exactly rare before embalming was generally practiced but it also would have made it possible for JS and HS to lay still for several hours without being suspected of still being alive.
As soon as it was safe, Willard Richards and innkeeper Artois Hamilton moved John Taylor and the bodies of the two martyrs to the nearby Hamilton Hotel. At the first opportunity, Willard Richards penned the short message mentioned above to be delivered to Nauvoo. About this time, Joseph and Hyrum’s brother Samuel H. Smith arrived from Plymouth, Illinois, about 23 miles (37 km) southeast of Carthage, having outridden on horseback a group of attackers.
About midnight, Illinois governor Thomas Ford arrived and urged Willard Richards to write another message to the Saints in Nauvoo. In it, Willard Richards counseled, “Be still, be patient.” In a postscript to this message, Ford advised the Saints, “Defend yourselves until protection can be furnished [if] necessary.”
Friday, June 28
Just after sunrise, Latter-day Saint farmer Arza Adams delivered Willard Richards’s message to Nauvoo, where the news spread quickly. Adams observed, “It was a solemn time. Many a rosy cheek was wet with tears, both men and women.”
In the morning at the Hamilton Hotel, Willard Richards arranged for a guard of eight soldiers, provided by Governor Ford and General Deming, to travel with the bodies to Nauvoo. The bodies of Joseph and Hyrum were placed in rough oak boxes, covered with brush for protection from the sun, and loaded onto separate wagons. With one wagon driven by the innkeeper, Artois Hamilton, and the other driven by Samuel Smith, the procession slowly made its way to Nauvoo.
At about 3:00 p.m., the wagon procession arrived in Nauvoo. A group directed by the city marshal met the procession east of the temple and escorted the wagons to the Mansion House, where a crowd of several thousand was waiting in the streets. Willard Richards, William W. Phelps, and others spoke to the crowd. Richards urged the Saints not to seek revenge and called for a vote to support his proposition for peace, which the Saints present unanimously sustained.
That evening, after the bodies were prepared and impressions of the faces were taken for death masks, Joseph and Hyrum’s mother, Lucy, and other family members and relatives viewed the bodies. The coffins had been placed on tables in the Mansion House dining room. “A dry eye I did not behold,” relative Almira Mack Covey wrote.
The bodies were then prepared for the public viewing to be held the next morning. They were placed in lined coffins with a small glass square in the lids through which the public could see the faces of Joseph and Hyrum. The coffins were taken to the main floor parlor of the Mansion House and placed in outer boxes.
Saturday, June 29
For several hours, thousands passed through the Mansion House to view the fallen brothers. “Every heart is filled with sorrow, and the very streets of Nauvoo seem to mourn,” wrote Vilate Kimball to her husband, Heber C. Kimball. He, like many other members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, was serving a mission elsewhere.
Shortly after 5:00 p.m., the Saints gathered at the meeting ground west of the temple to hear William W. Phelps give the funeral sermon. In the meantime, at the Mansion House precautions were being taken because of reports that enemies planned to steal the bodies. The coffins, removed from their outer boxes, were locked in a bedroom. The outer boxes were filled with bags of sand, nailed shut, and driven past the crowd at the meeting ground. The boxes were then driven to the graveyard, where a mock burial took place.
BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 6:51 pm I feel there is underappreciated and under-explored overlap between Mormonism and the concept of mud-floods, cultural layer and the general take on "Tartaria" on US lands that Streets of Tartaria explores and I've enjoyed some of Streets of Tartaria's material but while interesting, I don't think he's right on Joseph faking his death and being who we understand to be Emma's second husband.
Oh, those people who previously lived here and under the hand of God built breath-taking buildings and cities. How could they fall so hard?
The truth is out there.
Just being playful my friend.SJR3t2 wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 1:38 pmYou are twisting my words.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 12:33 pmOf course not!!! When Joseph does it, it's obviously higher and holier! Duh!!! Everyone knows that!
Sure doesn't seem like it.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 2:41 pmJust being playful my friend.SJR3t2 wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 1:38 pmYou are twisting my words.Shawn Henry wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 12:33 pm
Of course not!!! When Joseph does it, it's obviously higher and holier! Duh!!! Everyone knows that!
Imagine how many intelligent people, esteemed institutions and governments you have to call a liar for covid to have been less than the black plague it was made out to be, for 9/11 to be more than the official story, for the Book of Mormon to be true, the Bible to be historic (how many experts have to be wrong for Moses to have been a real person?), etc, etc.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 10:05 am
Imagine how many people you have to call a liar for mud floods to be true?
The difference between Covid and mud flood, there is evidence of people rejecting the Covid story at the same time the story started unfolding. There is no evidence of people rejecting the mud flood story from the 18&1900’s that I could find.BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 6:53 pmImagine how many intelligent people, esteemed institutions and governments you have to call a liar for covid to have been less than the black plague it was made out to be, for 9/11 to be more than the official story, for the Book of Mormon to be true, the Bible to be historic (how many experts have to be wrong for Moses to have been a real person?), etc, etc.Bronco73idi wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 10:05 am
Imagine how many people you have to call a liar for mud floods to be true?
I'm not going to go back and forth. You believe in establishment history. I'm not convinced it's entirely true.
"wood and plaster"
Subtle and systemic removal and destruction of higher-art creation made by higher-elevated people from a higher point in time.
The truth is stranger than fiction. Wake up.
"free" masonry
Agreed, question everything. Even our own Church history reveals some of the Church leaders engaged in revising our documented history..BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 6:53 pm...establishment history. I'm not convinced it's entirely true.
.Regarding Emma, I've noticed the phenomenon a few times where a divorced or widowed person will remarry someone who resembles their former spouse.Pazooka wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 2:33 pmI’m not saying I know enough it to draw a conclusion, but how can you be completely satisfied without better proof? Bidamon didn’t move to Nauvoo until 1846. Do we have marriage records for his previous marriages? Can he be located on a census (even then, how do we know his identity wasn’t assumed by JS)?Robin Hood wrote: ↑October 31st, 2023, 1:32 pmThis is complete rubbish.TruthSkr wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 9:58 pm I just came across this and i was speechless. Im still processing it and the many possibilities or not (arguing with myself). Im curious what are your thoughts.
From Streets of Tartaria:
https://youtu.be/7nUoyrjwliU?si=sadzTRLReLdjIPvB
Lewis Bidamon was well known in the area. He knew Joseph and had traded with him. People in Nauvoo and the surrounding area knew who he was and who Joseph was, and they knew the difference.
Additionally, the second photo presented of Joseph is clearly not Joseph. Bidamon doesn't look like Joseph at all. Not only that, but Joseph was taller.
Where is the documentation from individuals with whom he had interaction before 1846?
Did you watch the video? Because he demonstrates how the photographs of Bidamon actually do look like Joseph Smith using overlays.
Steve, many things you write I agree with and the things I don't agree with I tell you, but one thing is for sure; I admire your diligence and perseverance in studying God's word and we here on this forum are lucky to have you.