A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

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Mamabear
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A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Mamabear »

There was a recent survey sent out by the church to ask the members how they felt about interviews for 8-11 year olds. It struck a nerve. Many are upset and rightly so. If you’re still involved at church you might want to consider sending this letter to your Bishop and SP:

“Dear Bishops and Presidents,
Recently, the church research department sent a survey to a case sample of members. As part of the survey, participants were given the following statement and question: “One purpose of the current bishopric youth interviews is to help youth establish a trusting relationship with a priesthood holder. If the Church were to do interviews with 8 to 11 year old Primary children, how important would it be to you that your child establish a trusting relationship with a priesthood holder?” As you are aware from your mandatory child protection training, children do not need a close personal relationship with an adult who is not their parent or guardian, and certainly not a man who has a position of power over them. You will also likely be familiar that grooming is a dangerous practice that is carried out by potential child sex offenders and occurs when adults are allowed to have close and ongoing relationships with children and youth. We recognise that much has been done already to try and make such situations less likely to occur, but the alleged intent of the church to increase the efforts to establish a trusting relationship between a child and a priesthood leader would damage this progress. We respectfully request you to report back to your area and general priesthood leaders that the church members do not want children and youth to be put into further positions that lead them to be vulnerable to potential grooming and sexual assault. This is not a hypothetical situation. A large majority of the 550+ cases of reported child sexual abuse cases on floodlit.org involve priesthood leaders (https://floodlit.org/browse-by-position/).
Your cooperation in the endeavour to protect vulnerable children is literally living the example and teachings of Jesus Christ, whom you represent.
Sincerely yours,
Concerned members of your church and community.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... regarding/

Here is the original survey question:
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IMG_4786.jpeg (143.66 KiB) Viewed 400 times

3Nephi18:25
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by 3Nephi18:25 »

I personally feel the parents are the only and best ones to determine if/when their child is ready for baptism. No need to involve any church leader.

p8riot
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by p8riot »

3Nephi18:25 wrote: October 25th, 2023, 8:25 am I personally feel the parents are the only and best ones to determine if/when their child is ready for baptism. No need to involve any church leader.
I think the person performing the baptism should determine if person is ready. If you have the authority to baptize, why not the authority to ask them baptism questions?

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

If a religious body had righteous leaders and taught correct doctrine, I see the first commission (invitation) for being baptized coming from the Lord to the individual. That's the first witness. Then it is brought to the righteous servant (aka leader) and they validate the promptings and discuss what it means to be a disciple of Christ. That's the second witness. None of that should be done without the parents present if the person is young, especially in our day.

Ado
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Ado »

When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.

Mamabear
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Mamabear »

Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
My goodness, that’s really awful. I’m sorry.

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
WTH? That's horrible. And the church excommunicates a man who publicly scrutinizes the church and its closed-door policy with children. And that's to say nothing of the fact that some of these leaders are sexual predators and pedophiles.

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
this
horribly vile

I want to go back in time and stop this terrible damage to you
May your healing continue and peace cover the wounds

3Nephi18:25
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by 3Nephi18:25 »

Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
I am so sorry you had to experience that. I find his behavior disgusting and evil.

3Nephi18:25
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by 3Nephi18:25 »

p8riot wrote: October 25th, 2023, 10:23 am
3Nephi18:25 wrote: October 25th, 2023, 8:25 am I personally feel the parents are the only and best ones to determine if/when their child is ready for baptism. No need to involve any church leader.
I think the person performing the baptism should determine if person is ready. If you have the authority to baptize, why not the authority to ask them baptism questions?
I’m speaking solely to a child’s readiness for baptism—a child whose parents ought to be given deference to determine the timing of their child’s baptism. This includes non-believing parents.

What baptism questions? Anything beyond teaching the doctrine of Christ isn’t necessary. If a person asks one with authority to baptize him/her, isn’t the desire and asking proof enough of preparedness? Who are we to stand between an individual and his/her Savior? God forbid.

Lemarque
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Lemarque »

Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
I lived a quite sheltered life, and I had no idea what masturbate meant when I went in for my mission interview. When asked about the law of chastity, my bishop split it up into three separate questions. Have you had sex with anyone? Do you look at pornography? Do you have problems with masturbation?

I answered no to all of them.

At the end of the interview, he said, "I'm feeling prompted by the spirit to ask you specifically again if you have a problem with masturbation."

I said no again, since I had no idea what it was.

I learned what it meant on my mission. I had some not-so-great companions. And a gay investigator who had really specific questions.

It bothers me a lot when I think back on it. Him pretending the "Spirit" was telling him to talk more about masturbation with an 18 year old. Especially since he's a the Stake President now so he interviews every missionary instead of just the ones in a single ward.

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Seed Starter »

Lemarque wrote: October 26th, 2023, 5:13 pm
Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
I lived a quite sheltered life, and I had no idea what masturbate meant when I went in for my mission interview. When asked about the law of chastity, my bishop split it up into three separate questions. Have you had sex with anyone? Do you look at pornography? Do you have problems with masturbation?

I answered no to all of them.

At the end of the interview, he said, "I'm feeling prompted by the spirit to ask you specifically again if you have a problem with masturbation."

I said no again, since I had no idea what it was.

I learned what it meant on my mission. I had some not-so-great companions. And a gay investigator who had really specific questions.

It bothers me a lot when I think back on it. Him pretending the "Spirit" was telling him to talk more about masturbation with an 18 year old. Especially since he's a the Stake President now so he interviews every missionary instead of just the ones in a single ward.
I think something was up with your bishop. "I'm feeling prompted by the spirit to ask you specifically again if you have a problem with masturbation." That's kind of worded strangely. If you say no does that mean you thought it was just fine to do? If you say yes couldn't that also mean yes of course I have a problem with it, don't you? It is absolutely wrong. Why didn't he ask do you masturbate like he did with the other questions? Yes or no questions bring absolute clarity.

This brings a question to my mind. Do bishops get a yearly interview by SP's to make sure they are still worthy?

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by SJR3t2 »

Wrote this post to help with this problem.

Has not Sam testified of the wrongs of what have occurred from asking CHILDREN sexually explicate questions? Yea, he has boldly, and what was the LDS / Brighamite cDevilhurch done in response, they want to cast him out, and have said Sam Young is of the and will not get back in his place where he belongs and we need to remove him from our ranks. All while at the same time protecting the one on the right of the picture. Who had his books sell in Deseret Book until recently as the LDS / Brighamite church trying to hide or be secret about what is going on. I have never read any of his books, but I can speculate it would of had things that mostly tickled peoples ears, especially considering he has not had the baptism of fire or if he once did he has lost it because of his sins and crimes against God and the people. A repentant man will confess of his sins, not hide behind the law or lawyers. Now also take a look at which man the LDS / Brighamite church is supporting and which one they are forsaking. To me this is a very dirty rotten fruit of theirs.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2018/09/09/bish ... of-israel/

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
I think this points to a larger issue that the modern lds church has an over-fascination with documenting, focusing on, and drilling down with great detail peoples’ personal sexual habits and views which ends up creating all sorts of dysfunction, distrust, and improper social dynamics. I believe they do this as a way to gain greater control over the members and especially to manipulate the youth through guilt into toeing the line for their leaders and feeling highly pressured to be so “chaste” they they quickly get married in the church at a young age and immediately produce children for the church to perpetuate its numbers because they are so put upon by the leaders and policies of the church in the sexual department. They are never allowed to understand what living a chaste life is for themselves since a leader *immediately* attempts to force or foist a predetermined institutional interpretation of the law on the child before they even know what sexuality is and do it all in secrecy behind a closed door in the most awkward and inappropriate ways! Often using manipulative practices such as “the spirit told me” to justify their line of questioning and over-obsession with the topic when this is a plain lie.

This single practice has opened the door to a great deal of strife and dysfunction in the church. I do not believe god is pleased with it personally and there will be some who will have a great deal of explaining to do in regards to it. It seems obvious to me that only parent should be doing this if deemed necessary.

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by TheDuke »

Interesting I have 5 kids 12 grandchildren in church, countless extended family, maybe 100, not sure how many friends. Never heard of an issue.

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by OPMissionary »

This is easily the most homosexual church ever conceived in the history of mankind. Starting at puberty age have an (often effeminate, as most leaders are) adult man interrogate you about your masturbation habits. Then, you are shamed for the next several years about being attracted to and/or curious about girls. Then, at 16, you are allowed to go on "group dates," where there is as little a possibility that you might actually touch/kiss a girl as possible. Then, at 18 you get to spend 2 years with another male your age 24/7 where you sleep in the same room with him, share your thoughts and feelings with him, argue with him, and "roleplay" with him. You are told this companionship is preparing you for your "eternal companion." You are not allowed to look at, think about, flirt with, date, or positively interact with women in any way. Then, after your mission, you are charged with finding a spouse as quickly as possible, because at this point you have so much positive and intimate experience with women.

fractal_light_harvest
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by fractal_light_harvest »

OPMissionary wrote: October 26th, 2023, 7:57 pm This is easily the most homosexual church ever conceived in the history of mankind. Starting at puberty age have an (often effeminate, as most leaders are) adult man interrogate you about your masturbation habits. Then, you are shamed for the next several years about being attracted to and/or curious about girls. Then, at 16, you are allowed to go on "group dates," where there is as little a possibility that you might actually touch/kiss a girl as possible. Then, at 18 you get to spend 2 years with another male your age 24/7 where you sleep in the same room with him, share your thoughts and feelings with him, argue with him, and "roleplay" with him. You are told this companionship is preparing you for your "eternal companion." You are not allowed to look at, think about, flirt with, date, or positively interact with women in any way. Then, after your mission, you are charged with finding a spouse as quickly as possible, because at this point you have so much positive and intimate experience with women.
They are attempting to repress people sexually and gain control of their sexuality so that the *second* their leaders give them the green light to marry, they will as quickly as possible and quickly produce future tithe payers for the lds church before they have time to research church history, or establish their own identities independent of church culture and policy. It’s temple marriage as a weapon as opposed to a gift.

p8riot
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by p8riot »

3Nephi18:25 wrote: October 26th, 2023, 11:38 am
p8riot wrote: October 25th, 2023, 10:23 am
3Nephi18:25 wrote: October 25th, 2023, 8:25 am I personally feel the parents are the only and best ones to determine if/when their child is ready for baptism. No need to involve any church leader.
I think the person performing the baptism should determine if person is ready. If you have the authority to baptize, why not the authority to ask them baptism questions?
I’m speaking solely to a child’s readiness for baptism—a child whose parents ought to be given deference to determine the timing of their child’s baptism. This includes non-believing parents.

What baptism questions? Anything beyond teaching the doctrine of Christ isn’t necessary. If a person asks one with authority to baptize him/her, isn’t the desire and asking proof enough of preparedness? Who are we to stand between an individual and his/her Savior? God forbid.
I'm talking basic questions to ensure comprehension of what they are doing when they are baptized- what does baptism symbolize? what covenants are they making? what is repentance?, etc. Yes, I would hope that a parent would know if their child is ready for baptism without actually sitting down and conducting an interview. But if I were performing the ordinance for anyone else that I didn't know too well, I would ask those types of questions to ensure that I'm not profaning a holy ordinance or performing it in vain. But it doesn't have to be an interrogation.

Ado
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Ado »

Lemarque wrote: October 26th, 2023, 5:13 pm
Ado wrote: October 25th, 2023, 11:07 am When I turned 12, I remember being so excited for my first meeting with my bishop as a brand new beehive/young woman, thinking it would be a special message about how loved I was, and how precious I was as a daughter of God. Instead, he sat knee to knee with me and asked me to explain the law of chastity. I got it mixed up with the word of wisdom, which immediately upset him. He went on a rant about how I should easily have been able to answer his question, and that my mom neglected to educate me. He asked me if I masterbated, and when I acted confused, he explained to me what it meant to masterbate. Then he asked me to explain it back to him so that he knew I understood. And then again, he asked me if I masterbated. I left that meeting feeling confused and stupid. I'm still traumatized by that memory, and I was 12 years old. Children and youth should be off limits in one-on-one interviews with adults other than their own parents. Period.
I lived a quite sheltered life, and I had no idea what masturbate meant when I went in for my mission interview. When asked about the law of chastity, my bishop split it up into three separate questions. Have you had sex with anyone? Do you look at pornography? Do you have problems with masturbation?

I answered no to all of them.

At the end of the interview, he said, "I'm feeling prompted by the spirit to ask you specifically again if you have a problem with masturbation."

I said no again, since I had no idea what it was.

I learned what it meant on my mission. I had some not-so-great companions. And a gay investigator who had really specific questions.

It bothers me a lot when I think back on it. Him pretending the "Spirit" was telling him to talk more about masturbation with an 18 year old. Especially since he's a the Stake President now so he interviews every missionary instead of just the ones in a single ward.
That kind of spiritual manipulation is something I have only become awakened to in recent years as well, so I know what you mean when you feel bothered by looking back on something. As I look back on my entire 33 years of life in the church, there is a lot that I am now bothered by.
Last edited by Ado on October 27th, 2023, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ado
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Ado »

TheDuke wrote: October 26th, 2023, 7:50 pm Interesting I have 5 kids 12 grandchildren in church, countless extended family, maybe 100, not sure how many friends. Never heard of an issue.
Then by all means, discount the experiences of anyone else. How does that story about the 99 sheep go? Jesus says, "Hey, I've got 99 sheep here that don't seem to have an issue, so what could possibly be yours?"

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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by TheDuke »

Ado wrote: October 27th, 2023, 1:52 pm
TheDuke wrote: October 26th, 2023, 7:50 pm Interesting I have 5 kids 12 grandchildren in church, countless extended family, maybe 100, not sure how many friends. Never heard of an issue.
Then by all means, discount the experiences of anyone else. How does that story about the 99 sheep go? Jesus says, "Hey, I've got 99 sheep here that don't seem to have an issue, so what could possibly be yours?"
I'm not discounting anything................................... I'm pointing out a balance and a bit of common sense. ................ Gee I've got one black sheep................... all sheep are black and evil............... works both ways. All I see on FF many times is people piling on a bad thing. Jumping aboard. There are lots of people saying these things but most are second, third, fourth hand.

with 17M there will be black sheep.................. not many, but some. but to throw out the baby with the bath water, to say it is bad to have counsel with children.

You do what you do, you're a parent. But, leave others alone with their knowledge as well. I have said before I have half dozen experiences with pedo's and all are lies, false inunendos, and destructive of them, in my case all are males, all accused of things they never did. But, society is jaded by stories like this to make people distrust them.

Balance is needed. and perhaps a bit of common sense and intuition. Got a strange person around, better protect your family, got normal people, better do it quietly that throwing dirt everywhere.

Ado
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Ado »

TheDuke wrote: October 27th, 2023, 2:11 pm
Ado wrote: October 27th, 2023, 1:52 pm
TheDuke wrote: October 26th, 2023, 7:50 pm Interesting I have 5 kids 12 grandchildren in church, countless extended family, maybe 100, not sure how many friends. Never heard of an issue.
Then by all means, discount the experiences of anyone else. How does that story about the 99 sheep go? Jesus says, "Hey, I've got 99 sheep here that don't seem to have an issue, so what could possibly be yours?"
I'm not discounting anything................................... I'm pointing out a balance and a bit of common sense. ................ Gee I've got one black sheep................... all sheep are black and evil............... works both ways. All I see on FF many times is people piling on a bad thing. Jumping aboard. There are lots of people saying these things but most are second, third, fourth hand.

with 17M there will be black sheep.................. not many, but some. but to throw out the baby with the bath water, to say it is bad to have counsel with children.

You do what you do, you're a parent. But, leave others alone with their knowledge as well. I have said before I have half dozen experiences with pedo's and all are lies, false inunendos, and destructive of them, in my case all are males, all accused of things they never did. But, society is jaded by stories like this to make people distrust them.

Balance is needed. and perhaps a bit of common sense and intuition. Got a strange person around, better protect your family, got normal people, better do it quietly that throwing dirt everywhere.
I guess my response to this would be that when the majority of comments I ever see from you are something like "well I haven't seen this, this isn't happening in my sphere" that doesn't sound like much of an attempt to be balanced. Instead, it comes across as utterly dismissive.
Here's an attempt at some balance on my part: Most of the bishops I ever had were genuine-hearted, good men. One bishop in particular changed my life when he kindly shepherded me in a dark time of my young adult life. But a little leaven leavens the whole lump, and many are still reeling from that trauma. The inappropriate interaction I had with my first bishop as a 12 year old child traumatized me and shaped the way my mind worked every time I would interact with any priesthood leader afterwards. What a blessing that isn't the experience of anyone you personally know. It is the experience of countless others.

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I Dont Know...
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by I Dont Know... »

...I was manager of a pedofile unit in a New Zealand prison. It housed the worst offenders in the country...I also managed some of the most frightening violent sexual predators...I categorised the most dangerous offenders in all of the prison population as number 1-pedofiles, 2 serial violent rapists, 3 serial killers...all of these are narcissists and in some cases there are some shared cross habits...this categorisation is based on my own professional and personal experience.

Why pedofile number 1?...because they are undetectable...they are your best friend...they never present themselves as anything other than trustworthy...they are master groomers...but the damage they cause is not restricted to sexual predation...they infiltrate every aspect of your life...this makes them incredibly dangerous and manipulative...their reign of terror causes whole families and communities to lose faith in God, love and forgiveness...often leading to soul destroying behaviours for victims, their families and their communities, that become intergenerational...

...while managing these types of people I realised why I categorised pedofiles this way...if a pedofile remains undetected their destructive force over the years...is exponential...it removes hope and destroys life promoting behaviours in families, communities, societies...and without intervention...nations are destroyed...

...my wife and I never let our children out of our sight unless it was to go to their grandparents or our most trusted family members...they did not get to go to their friends house to stay over...

...our children now have their own children. My daughter has thanked her mother and I that we did not allow her as a child to be placed in anything other than a safe and loving environment...she does the same now...

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I Dont Know...
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Location: Aotearoa New Zealand Land of the long white cloud

Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by I Dont Know... »

Ado wrote: October 27th, 2023, 4:47 pm
TheDuke wrote: October 27th, 2023, 2:11 pm
Ado wrote: October 27th, 2023, 1:52 pm

Then by all means, discount the experiences of anyone else. How does that story about the 99 sheep go? Jesus says, "Hey, I've got 99 sheep here that don't seem to have an issue, so what could possibly be yours?"
I'm not discounting anything................................... I'm pointing out a balance and a bit of common sense. ................ Gee I've got one black sheep................... all sheep are black and evil............... works both ways. All I see on FF many times is people piling on a bad thing. Jumping aboard. There are lots of people saying these things but most are second, third, fourth hand.

with 17M there will be black sheep.................. not many, but some. but to throw out the baby with the bath water, to say it is bad to have counsel with children.

You do what you do, you're a parent. But, leave others alone with their knowledge as well. I have said before I have half dozen experiences with pedo's and all are lies, false inunendos, and destructive of them, in my case all are males, all accused of things they never did. But, society is jaded by stories like this to make people distrust them.

Balance is needed. and perhaps a bit of common sense and intuition. Got a strange person around, better protect your family, got normal people, better do it quietly that throwing dirt everywhere.
I guess my response to this would be that when the majority of comments I ever see from you are something like "well I haven't seen this, this isn't happening in my sphere" that doesn't sound like much of an attempt to be balanced. Instead, it comes across as utterly dismissive.
Here's an attempt at some balance on my part: Most of the bishops I ever had were genuine-hearted, good men. One bishop in particular changed my life when he kindly shepherded me in a dark time of my young adult life. But a little leaven leavens the whole lump, and many are still reeling from that trauma. The inappropriate interaction I had with my first bishop as a 12 year old child traumatized me and shaped the way my mind worked every time I would interact with any priesthood leader afterwards. What a blessing that isn't the experience of anyone you personally know. It is the experience of countless others.
...what she said!...you go girl...

Ado
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Re: A letter to send to your leaders if you disagree with Bishops interviewing 8-11 year olds

Post by Ado »

"I have said before I have half dozen experiences with pedo's and all are lies, false inunendos, and destructive of them, in my case all are males, all accused of things they never did. But, society is jaded by stories like this to make people distrust them."

Every male you have ever known to be accused of something pedophilic didn't actually do it? Is that what you're saying?
So is there any reason in your view to believe that pedophiles actually exist? And if they do, what is our duty to root them out and protect the innocent from them if the world is full of so many false accusers as well? Do you feel it is it even possible?

I believe it's not only possible, but necessary if we are to suffer our children to come unto Christ.

I believe in false innuendos, and false accusations that destroy lives. I know that happens and is quite common. In my husbands family there is an extended family member who was falsely accused of abusing his child. He went deep into debt defending and proving his innocence, and his ex finally admitted she lied in an effort to ruin him. There should be just punishment against that kind of false accusation, and it's infuriating that there really isn't, that I am aware of. Perhaps he could have gone back after her for perjury and defamation of character, but it would have cost more money and he was exhausted. Anyways, both ends of the spectrum of evil exist. There are real pedophiles, and there are real liars trying to destroy and defame the innocent. I think that the letter brought up in the OP protects the innocent on both sides of that spectrum.
Last edited by Ado on October 27th, 2023, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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