Council on Pornography Reform CPR

[Wolfwoman]

One one hand you have John Dehlin and friends saying that there is nothing wrong with pornography; there’s no shame in it, etc. Then on the other hand you’ve got people like Ricky Schroder working to get it out of the hands of children. Way to go, Ricky! It is definitely harmful to minors, at the very least.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxoz3ToM ... BiNWFlZA==

[BuriedTartaria]

One one hand you have John Dehlin and friends saying that there is nothing wrong with pornography;

Who a lot of anti-Mormons turn to for fueling and supporting their opinions, says a lot about them, IMO. I don't take the views of anyone who has thrown their lot in with John Dehlin and r/Mormon seriously. They clearly have poor judgment of character.

[Telavian]

I think pornography is destructive because it causes, mostly men, to lust after the flesh. This means we are seeking after things that ultimately don't matter and we are focusing our thoughts and feelings on it. It is an appetite that constantly needs to be fed which is not spiritually helpful.

This is compounded because men and women are distracted by modern society which confuses classical gender roles. Men are also bombarded by very attractive images of women that will never measure up to their wife. Pornography is also seconds away and the further you dive the harder it is to come back.

It is all a perfect storm and honestly required a fair amount of self-discipline to conquer. However today we live in a society that honestly teaches people that they don't need discipline. Buy it now, eat it now, watch it now, say it now.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

I think pornography is destructive because it causes, mostly men, to lust after the flesh. This means we are seeking after things that ultimately don't matter and we are focusing our thoughts and feelings on it. It is an appetite that constantly needs to be fed which is not spiritually helpful.

This is compounded because men and women are distracted by modern society which confuses classical gender roles. Men are also bombarded by very attractive images of women that will never measure up to their wife. Pornography is also seconds away and the further you dive the harder it is to come back.

It is all a perfect storm and honestly required a fair amount of self-discipline to conquer. However today we live in a society that honestly teaches people that they don't need discipline. Buy it now, eat it now, watch it now, say it now.

I think CS Lewis was poignant is his observation, when he discusses the dangers of such:

…sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides.

"And this harem, once admitted, works against his ever getting out and really uniting with a real woman.

"For the harem is always accessible, always subservient, calls for no sacrifices or adjustments, and can be endowed with erotic and psychological attractions which no woman can rival.

"Among those shadowy brides he is always adored, always the perfect lover; no demand is made on his unselfishness, no mortification ever imposed on his vanity.

"In the end, they become merely the medium through which he increasingly adores himself

[tribrac]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

[Wolfwoman]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

So…
You’re pro-pornography?
Or anti-women?

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

These are valid arguments. They are part of the cost of adopting feminism. Feminism promised easy access to vagina. Go study the early feminists. They were almost all whores.

[Wolfwoman]

One one hand you have John Dehlin and friends saying that there is nothing wrong with pornography;

Who a lot of anti-Mormons turn to for fueling and supporting their opinions, says a lot about them, IMO. I don't take the views of anyone who has thrown their lot in with John Dehlin and r/Mormon seriously. They clearly have poor judgment of character.

John Dehlin is supposed to be an intellectual, but he and the people on his show say some of the stupidest things sometimes. And they say things that are provably false. I guess they’ve got to fill up those 3-5 hours with lots of talk, so they aren’t always careful about saying accurate things. One of the annoying things about this YouTube era where people make tons of money on YouTube for doing stupid things.

Edit to add:
I did actually really enjoy the Mormon Matters podcast that John Dehlin had a hand in before he went completely anti/atheist whatever he is now.

[JohnnyL]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

I submit for thought/ comment that for some men the desire of intimacy, or for someone to dearly and truly love them, drives pornography. Yes, a craving, an addiction for true love.

Hoping to find it in a wife who then often blows the idea out of the water and continues to do bombard the drowning man, can make it much worse.

The desire to have the Spirit and Energy healing are by far the best part of the solutions--moving towards loving, accepting, and forgiving yourself and others is critical.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

I submit for thought/ comment that for some men the desire of intimacy, or for someone to dearly and truly love them, drives pornography. Yes, a craving, an addiction for true love.

Hoping to find it in a wife who then often blows the idea out of the water and continues to do bombard the drowning man, can make it much worse.

The desire to have the Spirit and Energy healing are by far the best part of the solutions--moving towards loving, accepting, and forgiving yourself and others is critical.

I believe this. It is what drives the AI girlfriend phenomenon. I also listen to an interview of a high end escort. She noted that many of her clients didn’t seek sex, they just wanted to lay in bed talking, while she would softly caress them, or softly scratch their backs. They payed tremendous amounts for the illusion of female comfort and approval.

[Hiker]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

I submit for thought/ comment that for some men the desire of intimacy, or for someone to dearly and truly love them, drives pornography. Yes, a craving, an addiction for true love.

Hoping to find it in a wife who then often blows the idea out of the water and continues to do bombard the drowning man, can make it much worse.

The desire to have the Spirit and Energy healing are by far the best part of the solutions--moving towards loving, accepting, and forgiving yourself and others is critical.

I believe this. It is what drives the AI girlfriend phenomenon. I also listen to an interview of a high end escort. She noted that many of her clients didn’t seek sex, they just wanted to lay in bed talking, while she would softly caress them, or softly scratch their backs. They payed tremendous amounts for the illusion of female comfort and approval.

There's also the phenomenon of men and women that move to foreign countries to find a mate. Passport Bros!

This is something I'm doing myself. Living in Southeast Asia. I've been dating a woman in Southeast Asia.

The “Passport Bros” are men who have chosen to seek out foreign women, typically from other countries, for relationships. They believe that western women have been influenced by cultural and societal pressures to behave in a certain way, and that by seeking out foreign women, they can find a more authentic, fulfilling, and harmonious relationship. This is seen as a way to restore the natural balance between masculine and feminine energy, and to avoid the “wickedness” of western women.

Men in the west who understand that the west (particularly the U.S.) is a sinking ship, both financially and culturally, and therefore, choose to live in countries where their money goes further and they’re treated with more respect, particularly by women. Passport Bros understand that their lives would be better in places like Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe, because strong family values are still seen as the norm in places like that. Hook-up culture isn’t as rampant in those parts of the world, and thus, the population, especially the women, are far less damaged. They create better and stronger family units.

[BigT]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

Sounds like Utah.

[jack]

I heard a what I thought was a great quote in reference to pornography:

We should be as protective of marriage and the family as we are of banks.

Suppose a person withdrew a significant amount of money from their bank and then went around telling everyone to take their money out as well, subsequently causing a run on the bank. We would put that person in jail and likely throw away the key.

Similarly, undermining the stability of marriage and families is equally, if not more, damaging to our civilization.

Just as we would throw the person who undermines a bank into jail we ought to put pornographers into jail for the destruction they cause.

[Peeps]

One one hand you have John Dehlin and friends saying that there is nothing wrong with pornography;

Who a lot of anti-Mormons turn to for fueling and supporting their opinions, says a lot about them, IMO. I don't take the views of anyone who has thrown their lot in with John Dehlin and r/Mormon seriously. They clearly have poor judgment of character.

John Dehlin is supposed to be an intellectual, but he and the people on his show say some of the stupidest things sometimes. And they say things that are provably false. I guess they’ve got to fill up those 3-5 hours with lots of talk, so they aren’t always careful about saying accurate things. One of the annoying things about this YouTube era where people make tons of money on YouTube for doing stupid things.

Edit to add:
I did actually really enjoy the Mormon Matters podcast that John Dehlin had a hand in before he went completely anti/atheist whatever he is now.

I tried his "staylds" forum for a brief stint before I found this one. The complete atheism on there was rampant, and definitely not what I was looking for.

[Wolfwoman]

I submit for thought/ comment that for some men the desire of intimacy, or for someone to dearly and truly love them, drives pornography. Yes, a craving, an addiction for true love.

Hoping to find it in a wife who then often blows the idea out of the water and continues to do bombard the drowning man, can make it much worse.

The desire to have the Spirit and Energy healing are by far the best part of the solutions--moving towards loving, accepting, and forgiving yourself and others is critical.

I believe this. It is what drives the AI girlfriend phenomenon. I also listen to an interview of a high end escort. She noted that many of her clients didn’t seek sex, they just wanted to lay in bed talking, while she would softly caress them, or softly scratch their backs. They payed tremendous amounts for the illusion of female comfort and approval.

There's also the phenomenon of men and women that move to foreign countries to find a mate. Passport Bros!

This is something I'm doing myself. Living in Southeast Asia. I've been dating a woman in Southeast Asia.

The “Passport Bros” are men who have chosen to seek out foreign women, typically from other countries, for relationships. They believe that western women have been influenced by cultural and societal pressures to behave in a certain way, and that by seeking out foreign women, they can find a more authentic, fulfilling, and harmonious relationship. This is seen as a way to restore the natural balance between masculine and feminine energy, and to avoid the “wickedness” of western women.

Men in the west who understand that the west (particularly the U.S.) is a sinking ship, both financially and culturally, and therefore, choose to live in countries where their money goes further and they’re treated with more respect, particularly by women. Passport Bros understand that their lives would be better in places like Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe, because strong family values are still seen as the norm in places like that. Hook-up culture isn’t as rampant in those parts of the world, and thus, the population, especially the women, are far less damaged. They create better and stronger family units.

Well I feel like this could be it’s own post and thread on its own because it doesn’t have much to do with pornography.

It’s certainly interesting. I saw some clip from a dating show where the guy wanted a “traditional” woman, but then he was shocked to find out that the middle eastern woman they set him up with would expect him to pay for the date and if they were to move forward with a relationship that she would expect to stay at home while he went to work and paid the bills. He seemed to want her to work and pay half the bills while still being a “traditional” wife. Lame.

So with that video about “passport bros” it would be interesting to see how the male children of the American man and the Filipino woman turn out. Because according to the video, American men are:

More ambitious
More Financially responsible
More Socially responsible
More rational

than Filipino men, apparently. So with their boys being half Filipino and half American and raised by a Filipino woman in the Philippines, would they turn out more like Filipino men? Lazy, not financially responsible, and so on?

So has western culture created great men, and terrible women? That’s what the video would imply. Curious.

I would posit that there are plenty of good women in America to date and marry. Maybe men should stop looking in bars and start looking in churches instead. I know not every woman in church is going to be great. But I know a lot of great women who are single and who are good women. Do they have careers? Yeah. If you’re thirty and not married, how are you gonna survive without a career? Many households are barely making it now with even two incomes. It has made being a “traditional wife” way more difficult. Maybe that’s why these guys move to the Philippines. Because their American dollars go further there. What do they do for work though, that they can move to the Philippines and keep making lots of money?

[Niemand]

I tried his "staylds" forum for a brief stint before I found this one. The complete atheism on there was rampant, and definitely not what I was looking for.

I take a more positive view of it. It allowed me to renegotiate my relationship with the church. I may not have gone off in John Dehlin's direction but it gave me alternative ways of looking at and handling issues. I enjoyed some of his podcasts.

[Wolfwoman]

Unfortunately I tried to go to his website, but it doesn’t work. I hope he gets it up and running again soon.

[Telavian]

Unfortunately I tried to go to his website, but it doesn’t work. I hope he gets it up and running again soon.

What is the purpose of "staylds"?

Is it to acknowledge there are issues in the LDS church, but it is true anyways?
Is it to doubt our doubts?

[Enoch]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

So…
You’re pro-pornography?
Or anti-women?

How is this either that or the other?

[Wolfwoman]

CS should have added...among those shadowy brides he is never ignored, never belittled, his opinions never mocked, he is never told he can be replaced whenever she decides. He is never accused of not making enough money, or meeting her emotional needs. He doesn't have to try to navigate the impossible dual requirements of being an aggressive alpha leader and a subservient, domestic servant.

And in mormonland, he lives with a constant reminder....that there is always a willing bishop or stk president to be her confidant, protector, and provider. And if he is not perfect, his wife and children will be given to a man more deserving.

So…
You’re pro-pornography?
Or anti-women?

How is this either that or the other?

That’s why I put question marks because I wasn’t sure what tribrac was saying.

CS Lewis was talking about porn and tribrac seemed to disagree with what CS Lewis said, or it came off as pro porn or anti women. That’s what I got from it. What did you get from it?

[Wolfwoman]

Unfortunately I tried to go to his website, but it doesn’t work. I hope he gets it up and running again soon.

What is the purpose of "staylds"?

Is it to acknowledge there are issues in the LDS church, but it is true anyways?
Is it to doubt our doubts?

Oh, I was talking about the council on porn reform website. It doesn’t work when you enter the address in.

I don’t know what the Stay LDS website is for. Last I heard it was for people who wanted to stay LDS but had concerns and stuff.

[Enoch]

So…
You’re pro-pornography?
Or anti-women?

How is this either that or the other?

That’s why I put question marks because I wasn’t sure what tribrac was saying.

CS Lewis was talking about porn and tribrac seemed to disagree with what CS Lewis said, or it came of as pro porn or anti women. That’s what I got from it. What did you get from it?

Right, you weren't sure, but how did you come to the idea, or how did it come off as anti-woman or pro-pcorn or how did you get that from it?

I got something different but I want to understand how your ideas led to the outcome?

[djinwa]

Not sure why men get stuck with the evil, disgusting urges.

When I create worlds, I’m going to greatly diminish men’s sex drive as it leads to all sorts of problems and sin which women don’t have to contend with.

Granted, with less sex drive, women cannot get as much from men as they can now by having monopoly control over those strong urges.

[Wolfwoman]

How is this either that or the other?

That’s why I put question marks because I wasn’t sure what tribrac was saying.

CS Lewis was talking about porn and tribrac seemed to disagree with what CS Lewis said, or it came of as pro porn or anti women. That’s what I got from it. What did you get from it?

Right, you weren't sure, but how did you come to the idea, or how did it come off as anti-woman or pro-pcorn or how did you get that from it?

I got something different but I want to understand how your ideas led to the outcome?

The words that he typed were seen by my eyes, which gave a signal to my brain and my brain interpreted his words.

Edit: in all seriousness, the words he typed out seem to indicate that to him, porn is “better” than a real relationship with a wife.

[Enoch]

That’s why I put question marks because I wasn’t sure what tribrac was saying.

CS Lewis was talking about porn and tribrac seemed to disagree with what CS Lewis said, or it came of as pro porn or anti women. That’s what I got from it. What did you get from it?

Right, you weren't sure, but how did you come to the idea, or how did it come off as anti-woman or pro-pcorn or how did you get that from it?

I got something different but I want to understand how your ideas led to the outcome?

The words that he typed were seen by my eyes, which gave a signal to my brain and my brain interpreted his words.

Edit: in all seriousness, the words he typed out seem to indicate that to him, porn is “better” than a real relationship with a wife.

hmm, I think you're being coy - (don't know if that is how you say it)

So my take was this:

I think that it conveys that some men have marriages where they are ignored, belittled, mocked, threatened with wife leaving, told he isn’t performing well economically, or meeting the wife’s emotional needs, he is slave to the job and a domestic slave to his wife. And particularly in Mormonism the wife has another husband in the church/bishop/stake president that is ready to take over if he doesn't comply.

so maybe because of this particular difficult experience with this particular women it led to the use of porn as a substitute or something to wane down the mental pain, like eating when you're anxious - this could have given him a jaded his view of women but not necessarily...