LDS Freedom Forum

LDS Physician wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 6:15 am Here's a question:

What's a guy to do when he realizes that the church (which he feels was founded by a true prophet) has gone off the rails and looks to be doubling down?

Telavian wrote: ↑October 22nd, 2023, 7:53 pm If there is one lesson or teaching you could impart to us, what would it be?

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 5:41 pm https://youtu.be/MuNtOeof3tE?t=227 Paul Means Pause, and we're in the Administration of Grace.

Were you aware of of this?

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 22nd, 2023, 9:51 pm I have a few questions. I've posted many things about Tim Ballard and what I think is going on with that situation. It would have been nice to see your replies to my comments. Many people seem unwilling to change their opinion of the man no matter what. My question is what do you think of TIM. Is he:

1. Completely innocent of wrongdoing and a warrior in the fight to save children.
2. A dirt bag con man, always was.
3. A man who was good but has turned to the dark side.

Another question is do you think all these women making cases against Tim early this year were doing so to stop his senate run that wasn't announced until mid September or do you think he announced a senate run because he knew this crap was coming out against him and he knew people would see these women coming out as a political hit job if he announced a senate run?

I'm glad you're back for a while.

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 6:58 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 22nd, 2023, 9:51 pm I have a few questions. I've posted many things about Tim Ballard and what I think is going on with that situation. It would have been nice to see your replies to my comments. Many people seem unwilling to change their opinion of the man no matter what. My question is what do you think of TIM. Is he:

1. Completely innocent of wrongdoing and a warrior in the fight to save children.
2. A dirt bag con man, always was.
3. A man who was good but has turned to the dark side.

Another question is do you think all these women making cases against Tim early this year were doing so to stop his senate run that wasn't announced until mid September or do you think he announced a senate run because he knew this crap was coming out against him and he knew people would see these women coming out as a political hit job if he announced a senate run?

I'm glad you're back for a while.

Okay, let's talk about Tim Ballard.

First and foremost, I would say that Tim Ballard is innocent until proven guilty when it comes to the crimes he's being charged with.

Second, Tim Ballard is not the kind of man that should have ever received so much attention by people claiming to have the ability to utilize the gift of discernment.

Finally, in my opinion, the entire Tim Ballard saga is not the key story people should be focused on. It is a tragic tale, to be sure, no matter how you look at it, but Tim Ballard is really no different than Denver Snuffer except that he had the backing and approval of several of the General Authorities, which lent him an aura of moral authority he clearly didn't deserve to have. May I tell you what I think is the most important thing about the Tim Ballard saga?

logonbump wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:03 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 6:58 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 22nd, 2023, 9:51 pm I have a few questions. I've posted many things about Tim Ballard and what I think is going on with that situation. It would have been nice to see your replies to my comments. Many people seem unwilling to change their opinion of the man no matter what. My question is what do you think of TIM. Is he:

1. Completely innocent of wrongdoing and a warrior in the fight to save children.
2. A dirt bag con man, always was.
3. A man who was good but has turned to the dark side.

Another question is do you think all these women making cases against Tim early this year were doing so to stop his senate run that wasn't announced until mid September or do you think he announced a senate run because he knew this crap was coming out against him and he knew people would see these women coming out as a political hit job if he announced a senate run?

I'm glad you're back for a while.

Okay, let's talk about Tim Ballard.

First and foremost, I would say that Tim Ballard is innocent until proven guilty when it comes to the crimes he's being charged with.

Second, Tim Ballard is not the kind of man that should have ever received so much attention by people claiming to have the ability to utilize the gift of discernment.

Finally, in my opinion, the entire Tim Ballard saga is not the key story people should be focused on. It is a tragic tale, to be sure, no matter how you look at it, but Tim Ballard is really no different than Denver Snuffer except that he had the backing and approval of several of the General Authorities, which lent him an aura of moral authority he clearly didn't deserve to have. May I tell you what I think is the most important thing about the Tim Ballard saga?

No.
Hold your tongue until you know more.
This needs to be brought to light organically. No putting a stop to the flood of evil that will result from what's behind this Bastard/Ballard saga end until the cleansing is complete.
I should warn you not to defend an alleged abuser. Like sternly warn you.

Dusty Wanderer wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 5:39 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 21st, 2023, 7:40 pm Because I won’t be back for long, and there won’t be time to share everything I’ve learned and done these last six months, I want to create a space where you can ask whatever you’d like, and I’ll provide the best answers I have. That way we can touch on what’s most important to y’all.

So ask away! I’ll respond as I’m able to, but promise I’ll answer every question that relates to the topics we’re interested in to the best of my ability before I “head out to sea” again.

For how long to you intend on being around to answer questions?

After you leave again, do you intend on posting updates to the Latter-Day Abuse blog? And if we wanted to get in touch with you after you leave, is the contact page on that blog the best way to do so?

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:12 pm

logonbump wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:03 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 6:58 pm

Okay, let's talk about Tim Ballard.

First and foremost, I would say that Tim Ballard is innocent until proven guilty when it comes to the crimes he's being charged with.

Second, Tim Ballard is not the kind of man that should have ever received so much attention by people claiming to have the ability to utilize the gift of discernment.

Finally, in my opinion, the entire Tim Ballard saga is not the key story people should be focused on. It is a tragic tale, to be sure, no matter how you look at it, but Tim Ballard is really no different than Denver Snuffer except that he had the backing and approval of several of the General Authorities, which lent him an aura of moral authority he clearly didn't deserve to have. May I tell you what I think is the most important thing about the Tim Ballard saga?

No.
Hold your tongue until you know more.
This needs to be brought to light organically. No putting a stop to the flood of evil that will result from what's behind this Bastard/Ballard saga end until the cleansing is complete.
I should warn you not to defend an alleged abuser. Like sternly warn you.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Who is defending him?

Are you proposing that we cast aside one of the founding principles of our society - the presumption of innocence? Because I'm not willing to do that - ever.

As far as his behavior goes that doesn't relate to the crimes he's charged with, you won't find anyone more anti-Tim Ballard than myself. But, my friend, are you quite certain that Tim Ballard is only an abuser, and not a victim as well?

Like, quite certain?

madvin wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:00 pm I don’t think it is possible not to judge. The thing about judgement is to use it in conjunction with the spirit. No spirit, no judgement. But with the spirit we use kindness, patience and meekness which is a righteous judgement.

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:44 pm

madvin wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:00 pm I don’t think it is possible not to judge. The thing about judgement is to use it in conjunction with the spirit. No spirit, no judgement. But with the spirit we use kindness, patience and meekness which is a righteous judgement.

I'm not saying to not judge, I'm saying that when a man or woman is accused of a crime, it is a fundamental principle of the US justice system that he/she be given the presumption of innocence.

It seems silly, until you're the one who has been accused.

That is a principle I will never relinquish, because if I don't afford people that right, I can't expect them to afford it to me - and that is intolerable.

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:04 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:44 pm

madvin wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:00 pm I don’t think it is possible not to judge. The thing about judgement is to use it in conjunction with the spirit. No spirit, no judgement. But with the spirit we use kindness, patience and meekness which is a righteous judgement.

I'm not saying to not judge, I'm saying that when a man or woman is accused of a crime, it is a fundamental principle of the US justice system that he/she be given the presumption of innocence.

It seems silly, until you're the one who has been accused.

That is a principle I will never relinquish, because if I don't afford people that right, I can't expect them to afford it to me - and that is intolerable.

I agree with the innocent until proven guilty principle. But I also might require evidence if someone makes a claim that they're doing good. We also shouldn't proclaim these women to be liars until it has been proven so right?

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:07 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:04 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 7:44 pm

I'm not saying to not judge, I'm saying that when a man or woman is accused of a crime, it is a fundamental principle of the US justice system that he/she be given the presumption of innocence.

It seems silly, until you're the one who has been accused.

That is a principle I will never relinquish, because if I don't afford people that right, I can't expect them to afford it to me - and that is intolerable.

I agree with the innocent until proven guilty principle. But I also might require evidence if someone makes a claim that they're doing good. We also shouldn't proclaim these women to be liars until it has been proven so right?

Absolutely. A claim to moral authority demands proof of moral living, in my opinion.

I don't believe I've ever stated that women (or men, for that matter) who are claiming abuse should be proclaimed liars.

Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser.

Learning the truth about such things is difficult. It takes real work, and even then we're often seeing through a glass darkly. But it's worth the effort, in my opinion, because we have to stop abusing each other if we ever want to see anything resembling Zion.

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:57 am Do you know when the seventh seal opened, and if not, why not?

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 2:37 pm

logonbump wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:20 am

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 22nd, 2023, 9:51 pm I have a few questions. I've posted many things about Tim Ballard and what I think is going on with that situation. It would have been nice to see your replies to my comments. Many people seem unwilling to change their opinion of the man no matter what. My question is what do you think of TIM. Is he:

1. Completely innocent of wrongdoing and a warrior in the fight to save children.
2. A dirt bag con man, always was.
3. A man who was good but has turned to the dark side.

Another question is do you think all these women making cases against Tim early this year were doing so to stop his senate run that wasn't announced until mid September or do you think he announced a senate run because he knew this crap was coming out against him and he knew people would see these women coming out as a political hit job if he announced a senate run?

I'm glad you're back for a while.

I just learned that Tim Ballard grew up in a community in California, La Cañada Flintridge, home of Jet Propulsion Laboratories. That town, near Pasadena,bhas what I am told is a very significant association with the church. I know nothing about that connection.
JPL is a main player in the military industrial complex and was associated originally with Jack Parsons, an occultist and friend of L Ron Hubbard. A whole industry grew out of the Pasadena area and that hi-tech/satanist movement that may have Incorporated many Mormons loyal to the movement.

Oh really? It would be interesting to start connecting dots in this area. For mormons to pop up in researching these things wouldn't be too surprising given other things they are part of.

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:04 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:07 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:04 pm


I agree with the innocent until proven guilty principle. But I also might require evidence if someone makes a claim that they're doing good. We also shouldn't proclaim these women to be liars until it has been proven so right?

Absolutely. A claim to moral authority demands proof of moral living, in my opinion.

I don't believe I've ever stated that women (or men, for that matter) who are claiming abuse should be proclaimed liars.

Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser.

Learning the truth about such things is difficult. It takes real work, and even then we're often seeing through a glass darkly. But it's worth the effort, in my opinion, because we have to stop abusing each other if we ever want to see anything resembling Zion.

To clarify, you never claimed that they are liars that I'm aware of. I know many others have. I apologize if I came across as pinning that on you. I was just making the point that if we say someone is innocent until proven guilty we must also say the victims are untruthful until proven truth tellers. If we believe the victim's stories before the court date then Tim is guilty. Nobody can take any position without condemning one of the parties. I think it's safe to say who I believe more though.

I love what you said here though. One of the parties is a victim and one is an abuser.
"Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser."

I have studied this issue a lot and I'm very curious to know where the evidence takes things in court. My research certainly points in one direction but I think this is much bigger than the parties in focus. Truth is what I want.

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:04 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:07 pm

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:04 pm


I agree with the innocent until proven guilty principle. But I also might require evidence if someone makes a claim that they're doing good. We also shouldn't proclaim these women to be liars until it has been proven so right?

Absolutely. A claim to moral authority demands proof of moral living, in my opinion.

I don't believe I've ever stated that women (or men, for that matter) who are claiming abuse should be proclaimed liars.

Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser.

Learning the truth about such things is difficult. It takes real work, and even then we're often seeing through a glass darkly. But it's worth the effort, in my opinion, because we have to stop abusing each other if we ever want to see anything resembling Zion.

To clarify, you never claimed that they are liars that I'm aware of. I know many others have. I apologize if I came across as pinning that on you. I was just making the point that if we say someone is innocent until proven guilty we must also say the victims are untruthful until proven truth tellers. If we believe the victim's stories before the court date then Tim is guilty. Nobody can take any position without condemning one of the parties. I think it's safe to say who I believe more though.

I love what you said here though. One of the parties is a victim and one is an abuser.
"Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser."

I have studied this issue a lot and I'm very curious to know where the evidence takes things in court. My research certainly points in one direction but I think this is much bigger than the parties in focus. Truth is what I want.

ransomme wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 4:59 am Yeah I think that there is something bigger at play

I won't be surprised if he is guilty or innocent.

I hope that he will be innocent, and that it will expose darker things. If he's guilty, then he should fear God.

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 5:19 am

ransomme wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 4:59 am Yeah I think that there is something bigger at play

I won't be surprised if he is guilty or innocent.

I hope that he will be innocent, and that it will expose darker things. If he's guilty, then he should fear God.

Just know, if he isn't guilty of the crimes he's been charged with, he's certainly guilty of what the Church refers to as "morally unacceptable" behavior. There can be no question regarding that. The historical evidence proves it conclusively.

ransomme wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 7:12 am What do you think?

Does something like the lds church of Satan operate in cells?

If so, then discovering all things tied to Gordon Bowen will led to much, but it may only be a glimpse, a fraction.

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 3:49 am

Seed Starter wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:04 pm

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 8:07 pm

Absolutely. A claim to moral authority demands proof of moral living, in my opinion.

I don't believe I've ever stated that women (or men, for that matter) who are claiming abuse should be proclaimed liars.

Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser.

Learning the truth about such things is difficult. It takes real work, and even then we're often seeing through a glass darkly. But it's worth the effort, in my opinion, because we have to stop abusing each other if we ever want to see anything resembling Zion.

To clarify, you never claimed that they are liars that I'm aware of. I know many others have. I apologize if I came across as pinning that on you. I was just making the point that if we say someone is innocent until proven guilty we must also say the victims are untruthful until proven truth tellers. If we believe the victim's stories before the court date then Tim is guilty. Nobody can take any position without condemning one of the parties. I think it's safe to say who I believe more though.

I love what you said here though. One of the parties is a victim and one is an abuser.
"Here's what I know: in cases where abuse is alleged, someone is being abused, because if the claims are true, the victim is being abused, and if the claims are false, the alleged victim is an abuser."

I have studied this issue a lot and I'm very curious to know where the evidence takes things in court. My research certainly points in one direction but I think this is much bigger than the parties in focus. Truth is what I want.

It is MUCH bigger than the parties in focus, and there are reasons that the focus is where it is, and not where it belongs.

viewtopic.php?p=1433553#p1433553

endlessQuestions wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 5:19 am

ransomme wrote: ↑October 24th, 2023, 4:59 am Yeah I think that there is something bigger at play

I won't be surprised if he is guilty or innocent.

I hope that he will be innocent, and that it will expose darker things. If he's guilty, then he should fear God.

Just know, if he isn't guilty of the crimes he's been charged with, he's certainly guilty of what the Church refers to as "morally unacceptable" behavior. There can be no question regarding that. The historical evidence proves it conclusively.