Meeting with stake president

[randyps]

Yes, it literally sent people to God. Many, many souls.

Isnt that what God want, for us to return to him? or is what you teach in your church to remain on earth aka telestial kingdom?

I'm pretty sure you knew what he meant, or should we thank gangs and mass murderers for sending people to God, too?

God aint gonna take away the gift of free agency.

What about the twinkie eaters and those that eat themselves to death of diabetes and heart failure?

Point is, if you are clear in your conscious with God that you live a good life and intend to follow him always, you have nothing to worry about in the eternal scheme of things even if you were murdered. But none of you all can think that far.
Yall are too busy crying and complainig that RMN hurt your little feelings.

RMN said it loud and clear ThinkCelestial

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yall are too busy crying and complainig that RMN hurt your little feelings.

You might want to turn that "crying and complaining" finger right back around.

[randyps]

Yall are too busy crying and complainig that RMN hurt your little feelings.

You might want to turn that "crying and complaining" finger right back around.

Im defending Gods church and his leaders, you and a few other bitter souls on here are the one looking to tear down destroy and divide aka acting like a crybaby

[Fred]

God wont violate our free agency. While we have him formulate a cure for covid why not have him solve homelessness and wars and ....oh wait, thats satans plan....to have no pain or suffering and 100% perfect robots.

Life is more fun the way it is now, I get to see grown men be crybabys over a 99yr old prophet

God said nothing about laying hands on the heads of the homeless to heal their homelessness.

God said nothing about laying hands on the perpetrators of war and bloodshed to heal war and bloodshed.


Guess what God DID say to do about illness?

Nobody is talking about laying on of hands, you are using priesthood in the context of "The blessings of the priesthood", as in RMN using his Priesthood keys as prophet to proclaim the vaccine a Godsend.

It literally was a godsend for the world, there were safer and better alternatives to this clotshot but the evil powers in charge would not let it happen. There was no other solution for the world. Free agency myfriend, God wont intefere.

Now on an individual level, if you had faith in your own priesthood you would have used it to heal family that may have needed it. Not you personally but many in here crying about what a prophet should or shouldnt do are missing the point that the priesthood is also yours to bless you and your family.

My neighbor and his wife did not get the shot despite it being recommended by RMN, yet when his wife was having complications from covid delta he gave her a priesthood blessing.

You are truly delusional. There is no known benefit to the jab. Millions of adverse reactions, including death, however.

[Seed Starter]

Why do I get the impression that some people think the Lord wants us to fix our problems by inventing vaccines and feeding the hungry but fixing problems in the church is totally off limits?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yall are too busy crying and complainig that RMN hurt your little feelings.

You might want to turn that "crying and complaining" finger right back around.

Im defending Gods church and his leaders, you and a few other bitter souls on here are the one looking to tear down destroy and divide aka acting like a crybaby

I just hear you complaining all the time. Kind of ironic really.

[Chip]

Wait... Wasn't someone going to meet with the SP for a belt head spanking? Is randyps the SP?

[harakim]

More of us need to be speaking up and speaking out.

That's a good point. I don't care about what leadership does, but I do care about the people in the church. I'm ready to burn a bridge or two so maybe I'll start attending again. My daughter is performing in a primary program soon so it will be the perfect time.

[Mamabear]

God wont violate our free agency. While we have him formulate a cure for covid why not have him solve homelessness and wars and ....oh wait, thats satans plan....to have no pain or suffering and 100% perfect robots.

Life is more fun the way it is now, I get to see grown men be crybabys over a 99yr old prophet

God isn’t going to formulate a cure for covid…aka the flu. He left that to the science dummies who couldn’t do it or didn’t want to do it and they faked it.

A 99 year old prophet? Please list all of his prophecies as a PSR over the last 34 years.

crybbypst

Nice try. You can’t answer the question.

[SimpleSaint]

Why do I get the impression that some people think the Lord wants us to fix our problems by inventing vaccines and feeding the hungry but fixing problems in the church is totally off limits?

It seems somewhat of a prideful way of thinking that we can do no wrong and that our leaders are always in direct communication with God, no matter what. Oh, SEC fine for not being upfront and honest? Just a little slap on the hand. Seems to fulfill this scripture:

"Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark." 2 Nephi 28:8-9

[Reluctant Watchman]

Are we gonna get a "return and report" on this one?
I hope things went well for your niece.

[JohnnyL]

A family member accused me of not “believing” in the leaders of the church. I responded by assuring him that my faith in Christ is strong, as well as my love for the Book of Mormon, my belief in Joseph Smith and the restoration, and my faith and trust in Biblical prophecy.

He gave me a weird look and walked away. He did not seem impressed, but who knows. Maybe he is thinking about it.

To most members the church is equivalent to God.

To most members, the Church belongs to Jesus Christ.

[JohnnyL]

The address that is officially listed is 50 E. North Temple, SLC, UT 84150 but some have offices in the same building is the lawyers at 50 E. South Temple. Encylopedia.com and Quora, both list Oaks and Nelson's address as 47 E. South Temple.

If you address it to one of the 15, and put "First Presidency" or "Quorum of the Twelve Apostles" as appropriate, I'm guessing it should reach them even with a not-perfectly-correct address.

It goes to missionaries who forward it to your SP.

It has to get past the censors. That is rare. Unless, as in GC, either Rasband or Renlund, shared a story about first having a family connection and then giving the royal treatment. Networking is real in the church. No network, no access.

"It goes to missionaries who forward it to your SP."

Not mine, ever. Have you had the experience (with your son, maybe) that happened that way?

"It has to get past the censors. That is rare. Unless, as in GC, either Rasband or Renlund, shared a story about first having a family connection and then giving the royal treatment. Networking is real in the church. No network, no access."

Yeah, that's a problem. and if you have a family connection, or a missionary connection, or such, maybe.

But you never know what got censored that someone might have responded to, had they seen it.

[cwass]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

[BigFootCain]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

Brave woman. Thanks for sharing this update.

[Reluctant Watchman]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

Thanks for that update. Please give her a big hug from us.

This is where most of the LDS dogmas lead: "He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions..." They all converge into the Covenant Path™. I'm astounded at how this simple thing, which should be such a beautiful aspect of worship, has become so divisive. Men are truly exercising unrighteous dominion when they leverage their supposed authority to limit what they believe to be the path back to God upon the arm of flesh. Truly a curse has fallen upon this church.

I'm happy for her and her faith journey ahead.

[Bonhoeffer]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

It is interesting to me that he went directly to the temple rec questions. Back in December when I wrote my stake Pres telling him I could no in good faith represent the church in the stake calling I had (Communications specialist/PR) he immediately told me at the next mtg I had with him we’d be going over those questions & he’d determine if I could still hold one. Good for her for just turning it in! I was pretty belligerent with mine and confronted him with the audacity that he felt my issues warranted such a thing. He wasn’t prepared to face the facts I was presenting him with in terms of how the church had gone so far off the path leading to Christ but it must be what they’re trained to do when faced with questioning members. I’ve since given it up by not renewing it bc I no longer believe in most of what the church teaches any longer or how it was founded.
Thank you for the update!

[Reluctant Watchman]

The recommend thing seems pretty standard for weeding our the heretic. "If you don't sustain me and these men, no eternal salvation for you... but remember, we love you!! <3" A friend of mine who was on the high council with me asked to be released after a few months because he was not comfortable with the demands of the position. It really didn't fit well with how he chose to worship. I guess the stake pres caught wind of his questioning and called him on the phone with an impromptu interview and revoked his recommend. About a year ago this friend and his wife had their records removed.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Just in case you guys weren't aware, you only need to attend the temple one time in your life per church doctrine. Once they take away the paper... what does it matter?

[TwochurchesOnly]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

AMAZING !! She is!! this is huge --couldn't be more proud of her if she was my own child
such an extraordinary example - standing for truth - fear not !!
wow - great faith in action --

[Serragon]

"There is a place in this church for everybody"...

Which isn't true. But even if it were true, it renders the church pointless and meaningless.

Everything is tribal, even Christianity. Pretending it is not is just deception.

There is a difference between tribalism and 100% conformity. The problem with groupthink is when the group is wrong you are not allowed to say so by definition.
I have had more than one person say something like, "You are not part of X so you can't criticize X". By definition to be part of X you have to agree with all of X. This is circular reasoning.

Any tribe has core ideological principles with which you must agree or you will find yourself on the outside. On other things there is flexibility, but not the core principles and the associated implementation. You cannot have a tribe without having these foundational first principles accepted by all. It is because of these core principles that outsiders can be adopted into the tribe and be assimilated. If you allow these core principles to be fungible, you no longer have a tribe because you no longer have anything to unify around. This is why you see the progressives constantly attacking anything that promotes western culture or anything that helps you be independent. They are actively destroying the unifying principles of the tribe.

Our church is currently experiencing this problem. They have removed many of the core principles around which we were unified, and pretending that the tribe is open to all. The new unifying cry is "Christ", but since this is an abstract and means opposite things to different people, there is no ability to form a tribe around the abstraction.

The cry is that we all belong and can find a place, but this is a deception. A tribe that accepts all as they are with no need to assimilate is useless and not a tribe. Our leaders understand this, so they somewhat hide the core principles behind the abstraction of "Christ". These principles are things like asserting that the Q15 are PSRs, and that they overrule any scripture or previous prophets. And temple attendance.

But these things are not working because they are not powerful ideological motivators. Asserting the brethren are PSRs over and over again without any PSR activity begins to lose its power to convince others, let alone yourself. And temple attendance becomes busy work. There is nothing that makes us "mormon' anymore, and therefore we have no real tribe. And far from being welcoming to all, it is only welcoming to those who are willing to ignore any sense of principle or rationality regarding tradiational Christian and Mormon doctrine.

[Libertas Est Salus]

"There is a place in this church for everybody"...

Which isn't true. But even if it were true, it renders the church pointless and meaningless.

Everything is tribal, even Christianity. Pretending it is not is just deception.

There is a difference between tribalism and 100% conformity. The problem with groupthink is when the group is wrong you are not allowed to say so by definition.
I have had more than one person say something like, "You are not part of X so you can't criticize X". By definition to be part of X you have to agree with all of X. This is circular reasoning.

Any tribe has core ideological principles with which you must agree or you will find yourself on the outside. On other things there is flexibility, but not the core principles and the associated implementation. You cannot have a tribe without having these foundational first principles accepted by all. It is because of these core principles that outsiders can be adopted into the tribe and be assimilated. If you allow these core principles to be fungible, you no longer have a tribe because you no longer have anything to unify around. This is why you see the progressives constantly attacking anything that promotes western culture or anything that helps you be independent. They are actively destroying the unifying principles of the tribe.

Our church is currently experiencing this problem. They have removed many of the core principles around which we were unified, and pretending that the tribe is open to all. The new unifying cry is "Christ", but since this is an abstract and means opposite things to different people, there is no ability to form a tribe around the abstraction.

The cry is that we all belong and can find a place, but this is a deception. A tribe that accepts all as they are with no need to assimilate is useless and not a tribe. Our leaders understand this, so they somewhat hide the core principles behind the abstraction of "Christ". These principles are things like asserting that the Q15 are PSRs, and that they overrule any scripture or previous prophets. And temple attendance.

But these things are not working because they are not powerful ideological motivators. Asserting the brethren are PSRs over and over again without any PSR activity begins to lose its power to convince others, let alone yourself. And temple attendance becomes busy work. There is nothing that makes us "mormon' anymore, and therefore we have no real tribe. And far from being welcoming to all, it is only welcoming to those who are willing to ignore any sense of principle or rationality regarding tradiational Christian and Mormon doctrine.

Very interesting insight.

[BringerOfJoy]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

I am proud of her, too. And it sounds like as far as the "Leadership Lottery" goes, she didn't do too badly. That wasn't the case for a lot of folks back in 2014/15, but my daughter was excommunicated in 2015 for her beliefs, and at least they treated her respectfully at the time. She was well aware they were getting pressure from above. She had been meeting with her bishop and stake president over the last year, and the only reason she even showed up for the disciplinary council--because she knew the conclusion was already decided--was to share with them the things of her heart. Respectfully. It made a difference because one of the members of that bishopric later contacted her--years later--and apologized and told her he thought it shouldn't have happened.

Under the same circumstances, I am not sure I would even show up, because I have a tendency to get defensive, and then I just might go on the offense: something I have fought my whole life unsuccessfully so far. I could make a bad situation a whole lot worse in a New York minute.

[BigFootCain]

She went to the meeting and my wife had told her that it's ok to speak your truth and that she doesn't have to give him private information. He was generally supportive of her. He asked about how she and her family were. He told her that he needed to go over the temple recommend questions and she didn't feel the need to go over some of those specific questions so instead of going over that she just turned in her temple recommend. She didn't want to argue. She said it was hard but she knew she didn't need to take any more time to consider her answers to her questions.

I'm really proud of her. She is just a kid. She has a testimony and has stressed that she is not having a crisis of faith. Her family is as true blue as they get. 6 siblings, missions, dad in church leadership etc. It's not easy. But can you imagine the ripple effect of that small act in a family like hers.

I am proud of her, too. And it sounds like as far as the "Leadership Lottery" goes, she didn't do too badly. That wasn't the case for a lot of folks back in 2014/15, but my daughter was excommunicated in 2015? for her beliefs, and at least they treated her respectfully at the time. She was well aware they were getting pressure from above. She had been meeting with her bishop and stake president over the last year, and the only reason she even showed up for the disciplinary council--because she knew the conclusion was already decided--was to share with them the things of her heart. Respectfully. It made a difference because one of the members of that bishopric later contacted her--years later--and apologized and told her he thought it shouldn't have happened.

Under the same circumstances, I am not sure I would even show up, because I have a tendency to get defensive, and then I just might go on the offense: something I have fought my whole life unsuccessfully so far. I could make a bad situation a whole lot worse in a New York minute.

You're not alone in your tendency to get defensive. I'm guilty of that more often than not.

At least we recognized that in ourselves and have a desire to change. Even if the progress is slow or doesn't seem to happen much at all.

[CuriousThinker]

Why do I get the impression that some people think the Lord wants us to fix our problems by inventing vaccines and feeding the hungry but fixing problems in the church is totally off limits?

It seems somewhat of a prideful way of thinking that we can do no wrong and that our leaders are always in direct communication with God, no matter what. Oh, SEC fine for not being upfront and honest? Just a little slap on the hand. Seems to fulfill this scripture:

"Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark." 2 Nephi 28:8-9

Every time I read that scripture I think of the second anointing because they are basically told they can do anything other than murder or deny the HG and they go directly to the CK after having their few stripes aka the buffetings of Satan.