LDS Freedom Forum

I randomly check in on Rob Smith from time to time, and it seems he is now creating an official ministry site where he will start taking donations. This is somewhat different considering his previous very strong stand against such behavior. I understand that he has worked a lot over the years and basically got nothing in return so I completely understand from a financial perspective.

This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

If I was to invest in anything like this then I would certainly want to know the financial status of his company. If it is successful then why would he need anything from us? If it is not successful then I can understand the need for money. I suspect the later is likely true considering he seems to be selling the software now and likely having complications getting customers.
https://primelabs.ms/

Also, if he wanted to simplify things he could create a facebook group, gab group or something similar that he could control. He doesn't need to create a full blown website for such a concept. A lot of people do facebook + Patreon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvESMiqm6CM

That is quite shocking. Wouldn’t he have said in the past that it’s priest craft?!

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 4:15 pm That is quite shocking. Wouldn’t he have said in the past that it’s priest craft?!

I am not sure about priestcraft, however it certainly seems to be placing himself as the center so maybe it is.

content is king, it seems that religious talk/ NDEs and any other spiritual topic is gaining eyeballs, time to make money off that traffic.

I just watched the video.

My impression, like I usually get from his videos, is that he’s crazy. And conceited.

Interesting that it’s a legal non-profit for tax purposes.

Oh, also he said it’s not something he himself would ever want to do (take donations), but the Lord told him to do it, and he can prove it’s efficacy in the scriptures.

And it is an intriguing idea of bringing people together to build Zion or whatever his vision is through some method that he knows about, similar to Unified Field theory. So I’ll have to go look that up and learn what it is.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 5:08 pm I just watched the video.

My impression, like I usually get from his videos, is that he’s crazy. And conceited.

Interesting that it’s a legal non-profit for tax purposes.

Oh, also he said it’s not something he himself would ever want to do (take donations), but the Lord told him to do it, and he can prove it’s efficacy in the scriptures.

And it is an intriguing idea of bringing people together to build Zion or whatever his vision is through some method that he knows about, similar to Unified Field theory. So I’ll have to go look that up and learn what it is.

There are certainly some advantages. Not sure about the quizzes, badges, and grading though. Would we be quizzed by how much we understand about his interpretation of things?

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 5:21 pm

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 5:08 pm I just watched the video.

My impression, like I usually get from his videos, is that he’s crazy. And conceited.

Interesting that it’s a legal non-profit for tax purposes.

Oh, also he said it’s not something he himself would ever want to do (take donations), but the Lord told him to do it, and he can prove it’s efficacy in the scriptures.

And it is an intriguing idea of bringing people together to build Zion or whatever his vision is through some method that he knows about, similar to Unified Field theory. So I’ll have to go look that up and learn what it is.

There are certainly some advantages. Not sure about the quizzes, badges, and grading though. Would we be quizzed by how much we understand about his interpretation of things?

Sounds like it. Because if you don’t get it right then he’ll recommend which books you need to read to learn the right answer. He said it would be multiple choice. I was thinking it would be more along the lines of short answer or essay form, but maybe he doesn’t have time to do it that way.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 5:23 pm Sounds like it. Because if you don’t get it right then he’ll recommend which books you need to read to learn the right answer. He said it would be multiple choice. I was thinking it would be more along the lines of short answer or essay form, but maybe he doesn’t have time to do it that way.

I don't understand him. He talks about how much he has to do and then he records a 1-hour video about something he has spoken several times about already. Now he is going to build a website which will likely take far longer than he realizes to build it. Then he has to administer it and so on.

Without a doubt I really think he means well. He has certainly sacrificed a lot for what he believes in. I admire that about him.

Who is Rob Smith?

4Joshua8 wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 6:16 pm Who is Rob Smith?

He is a controversial personality in the alternative Mormonism realm. He is known for writing a few books, his long-standing blog and some controversial comments he has made that got him fired from his job.

4Joshua8 wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 6:16 pm Who is Rob Smith?

He has a blog and has written some books that you can read on his blog for free or you can pay the printing and shipping cost to Amazon and read them that way. He also has a YouTube channel.

He claims to have seen Christ. Sounds like he believes he is talking to him regularly because he frequently says, “the Lord told me this” and “the Lord told me that.”

Book of Mormon Verses on Priestcraft
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/28/book ... iestcraft/

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 5:21 pm

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 5:08 pm I just watched the video.

My impression, like I usually get from his videos, is that he’s crazy. And conceited.

Interesting that it’s a legal non-profit for tax purposes.

Oh, also he said it’s not something he himself would ever want to do (take donations), but the Lord told him to do it, and he can prove it’s efficacy in the scriptures.

And it is an intriguing idea of bringing people together to build Zion or whatever his vision is through some method that he knows about, similar to Unified Field theory. So I’ll have to go look that up and learn what it is.

There are certainly some advantages. Not sure about the quizzes, badges, and grading though. Would we be quizzed by how much we understand about his interpretation of things?

My understanding on the quizzes (and this is heavily my own interpretation) is that people need to learn from others who are somewhat in their area of knowledge. Rob feels (I think) that there is a lot of his material or it is a waste of his time to talk to some people because they have a lot of questions and they aren't at a level that they are even ready for the answers, at least from him. And I asked him some about it and he totally agreed that there are some people who even though they don't know a ton, they are very good about practicing what they know. He emphasized that this is not some kind of righteousness filter. But it is directing people towards resources (either his materials or perhaps other certified users) that can help people get up to speed on things at the intellectual level.

This is 100% MY OWN take on what he said, so please take it with a massive grain of salt.

On the priestcraft thing, he is not charging for anything afaik, and all of his books and everything he charges costs of printing and shipping, and also I believe ALL of his writings he has made available online for free. This is a DONATION "opportunity" only for those that want to help him with what he is doing. Nothing will be withheld (to my knowledge) from someone that never donates. So I don't feel this is priestcraft at all.

I don't think this is about making money from views either. Rob has been doing this for something like ten years, and has a few hundred subscribers. All this time spending hours PER day writing and making videos with no interest in making money. I just don't see him doing it for those reasons. And I am not a follower of his, I like his material, but I am not sure how I feel about the ministry and direction he is taking things. I'd say I am guardedly hopeful, but haven't spent a lot of time thinking or praying about it.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 6:31 pm On the priestcraft thing, he is not charging for anything afaik, and all of his books and everything he charges costs of printing and shipping, and also I believe ALL of his writings he has made available online for free. This is a DONATION "opportunity" only for those that want to help him with what he is doing. Nothing will be withheld (to my knowledge) from someone that never donates. So I don't feel this is priestcraft at all.

I don't think this is about making money from views either. Rob has been doing this for something like ten years, and has a few hundred subscribers. All this time spending hours PER day writing and making videos with no interest in making money. I just don't see him doing it for those reasons. And I am not a follower of his, I like his material, but I am not sure how I feel about the ministry and direction he is taking things. I'd say I am guardedly hopeful, but haven't spent a lot of time thinking or praying about it.

I did read your comments on his video and I think they are pretty honest. I know you follow him much more closely than I do.
On the surface this does seem like it is a strange way to take things for him, but I do agree that he produces a lot and most people don't interact with his material at the level he would like.

Building a website around someone's teaching is not an inherently bad thing. However, it can devolve into an echo chamber rather quickly. I like Rob as a person and really want to see him succeed in life.

I sincerely care about him and would honestly say I've become a more driven person as I have read his material over the years, but this is my jump off point, partly due to not being on board with his community plan and partly due to never having become 100% certain of his otherworldly claims. I'm not going to make my identity and name public in my communications *with him and his followers while on top of that, now placing myself in a situation where ranking among his followers is occurring and if I don't do well enough following him, I will instead be placed in a lower ranking and be communicating with someone Rob has appointed to work with less spiritually developed people. Beyond all that, if he only has 30 dedicated followers, this really isn't going to go anywhere. I'm not necessarily against him being open to donations, he's clearly suffered fiscally from his ministry, but for someone so staunch on taking every written word of scripture as literal as you can, the idea seems to go against the Book of Mormon making it clear that the teacher doesn't receive monetary increase by donations from his ministry efforts. Maybe it isn't an increase for him though. Maybe if he receives $20, the $20 goes to building or maintaining the infrastructure of his religious community.

*Because I'm really not interested in being friends with or learning from Rob's followers. I think Rob is compelling, so I'm willing to listen to him. But I'm not interested in "learning" from followers of him who haven't done a fraction of what Rob has done.

I have similar feelings to Snuffer's remnant movement (I would like to note, because they parade this being a movement and not a church, it was referred to as a church, not a movement, in an opening prayer provided at a recent get-together for paying gratitude to Snuffer's ministry. So which is it? A church or a movement? Why does Denver have to repeatedly quiet down someone or some group about this not being a church? Is there an usurper among them?) I am not entirely sold on his revelatory and prophetic claims but I haven't entirely written them off either and part of the reason I'm not sold is I don't feel like I see much noteworthy fruit among his followers. It kind of looks like nothing is going on and it's just meeting for talks every 4 months and 40 people are arguing about whether or not the Lord accepted their Statement of Principles (or some other document) 7 years after it was put out. On the other hand, I LOVE Denver's parable about waiting for the Lord to guide the patient man through the dangerous cave, while the over-eager, power hungry men pass away from not being patient and waiting for the Lord, so maybe what seems to be a lack of much occurring is actually a good thing, I can see over-zealousness being a rookie mistake someone wise is avoiding. I just feel like you should expect more to be going on among the heart of the start of a new dispensation. Denver's words ring powerful and compelling. The following itself, I'm not trying to be mean, I just don't see much there. If some find that insulting.... Well.... it is what it is. I could say more to demonstrate why I have the view that I have but I'd like to avoid wounding hearts.

I'm not being any harsher or unfair or critical to Rob or Denver and their followings than I am with the LDS Church and their claims and how they operate. When you pick up a stick, you pick up both ends. I am showing disrespect to God after He freed me from false traditions, if the same level of judgment I have placed on the LDS Church to find freedom from bad doctrine is not meted out against every other place I turn, seeking to find truth. These are two people I respect and have learned from. They're both insanely critical of an institution. It's ridiculous if they and their followers can't accept they will be criticized and judged as they have criticized and judged.

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 4:10 pm This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

Why would anyone want this?!

seems to be going down the snuffer path. They both do help people to break out of past chains but it seems that forming a platform always leads to standing on it.... and then building an elevated podium. ...then a microphone...then speakers... then bigger speakers ....and then... viola! A new church has sprung to life!

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 4:10 pm

This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.
\

I apologize, but...this is absurd. he's creating a cult.

creator wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 7:49 pm

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 4:10 pm This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

Why would anyone want this?!

special people

creator wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 7:49 pm

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 4:10 pm This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

Why would anyone want this?!

Hmm… I wonder if this has ever been done before? For a price you can be given special access to higher knowledge…

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 8:53 pm

creator wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 7:49 pm

Telavian wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 4:10 pm This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

Why would anyone want this?!

Hmm… I wonder if this has ever been done before? For a price you can be given special access to higher knowledge…

ya, show your allegiance to me, and I will give you special permission to my Kingdom.

Seven or so years ago Rob had a great, objective, honest blog post titled something like "time for a wake up call for the Snuffer crowd" (it isn't accessible anymore). The Rob from back then would laugh at the Rob of today designing a private website for people to provide their public identity to him and join a church-like ranking organization for receiving his messages and having the opportunity to donate money to him. This is the beginning of the end for Upward Thought's ministering. He doesn't have a following enough to support something like this and he looks completely different from how he used to be. This guy changed. For better or worse is understandably something people can decide for themselves.

Four years ago he said he'd be blogging less to have more time to write important books. In that time, his blogging has only mildly decreased (after disappearing for 6ish months following his unfair firing) while he's become engaged in frequently releasing 10 to 60 minute videos on a near daily basis. I think he has released two books in that time. The one on faith, the one on repentance. Neither were particularly profound on unraveling and expounding scripture, the mysteries of God and the current, complex goings-on in today's world and I feel like he said his books would get in to all those things.

Like, if I had a dollar for every time he said something to the extent of "this is all deep, and I don't have the ability to explain it all in this video, but I'm working on books that will expound on this....". What books? You've been saying "I'm working on books and need time for them", while becoming a vlogger releasing a considerable amount of footage on a daily/weekly basis and not releasing a single book centered on the mysteries of God.


This guy just really changed. Goodnight, sweet prince and goodbye, Upward Thought. The search for messengers from the Lord goes on.....

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 9:13 pm Like, if I had a dollar for every time he said something to the extent of "this is all deep, and I don't have the ability to explain it all in this video, but I'm working on books that will expound on this....". What books? You've been saying "I'm working on books and need time for them", while becoming a vlogger releasing a considerable amount of footage on a daily/weekly basis and not releasing a single book centered on the mysteries of God.

I have noticed the same thing. It seems like a painful cry from someone who is trying so hard, but running in reverse.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 8:11 pm seems to be going down the snuffer path. They both do help people to break out of past chains but it seems that forming a platform always leads to standing on it.... and then building an elevated podium. ...then a microphone...then speakers... then bigger speakers ....and then... viola! A new church has sprung to life!

I think he is frustrated that he has tried so hard and his message is not really resonating with others. I totally understand the feeling.
However who is he ultimately working for? If it is Christ then the scriptures say we should find joy in the struggle. If it is himself then I can understand the frustration.