Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?

[Bjǫrnúlfr]

The guy is clearly deluded.

[Original_Intent]

As I posted on his video this morning, I have no interest in becoming a follower of Rob Smith. I am interested in becoming a better follower of Christ and strengthening my direct connection with Christ. Rob has helped me in this regard.

I don't think in any way that Rob setting up a donation portal equates to priestcraft.

I am intrigued by the certification idea and what Rob is trying to accomplish with it. Which I don't really know, but Rob being an engineer it seems to me that he is trying to improve efficiencies and engage people in being more participants and not just spectators to what he is trying to accomplish. Like I said, I am intrigued - enough that I will probably get involved and try in some way to help Rob with what he is trying to accomplish.

[Robin Hood]

I randomly check in on Rob Smith from time to time, and it seems he is now creating an official ministry site where he will start taking donations. This is somewhat different considering his previous very strong stand against such behavior. I understand that he has worked a lot over the years and basically got nothing in return so I completely understand from a financial perspective.

This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

If I was to invest in anything like this then I would certainly want to know the financial status of his company. If it is successful then why would he need anything from us? If it is not successful then I can understand the need for money. I suspect the later is likely true considering he seems to be selling the software now and likely having complications getting customers.
https://primelabs.ms/

Also, if he wanted to simplify things he could create a facebook group, gab group or something similar that he could control. He doesn't need to create a full blown website for such a concept. A lot of people do facebook + Patreon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvESMiqm6CM

Priestcraft.

[Telavian]

I am intrigued by the certification idea and what Rob is trying to accomplish with it. Which I don't really know, but Rob being an engineer it seems to me that he is trying to improve efficiencies and engage people in being more participants and not just spectators to what he is trying to accomplish. Like I said, I am intrigued - enough that I will probably get involved and try in some way to help Rob with what he is trying to accomplish.

Will he issue badges and certifications for contrary opinions? What if your opinion is backed by multiple scriptures? Currently if you don't agree with him then he will block you from the comments on his YT channel.

I think a website around his opinions is certainly a valid idea. There are a lot of places like this. However, I think there is not much future in it honestly.

If I was to design something then I would design simple lessons with multiple self-service levels of detail and open source it. Anyone can submit lessons, however they have to be peer reviewed. Lessons can be voted on and rated. Comments from enrolled people are open and not hidden. Multiple interpretations are allowed as long as there is supporting evidence. Students should be able to show the teacher is wrong, if in fact they are.

If he was smart though, he would use an open-source system already designed to allow almost all of what I indicated.
Moodle - https://moodle.org/
Dokeos - https://www.dokeos.com/
Claroline - https://www.claroline.com/en

[Reluctant Watchman]

Priestcraft.

If he sets himself up as a light unto the people, yes. If he is simply requesting support, no. It's the combination of gain and praise, and doing it for selfish or egocentric reasons.

2 Nephi 26
“He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.”

[Shawn Henry]

I hope Rob remembers to log off of his zoom calls before handling his personal business.

[HereWeGo]

I am not entirely sold on his revelatory and prophetic claims but I haven't entirely written them off either and part of the reason I'm not sold is I don't feel like I see much noteworthy fruit among his followers.

I think any progress being made in this Movement is being made in individual Fellowships; hence, a movement and not a church. As a whole (a Church), I agree with you. There are various fellowships calling various conferences which don't seem to have a coordinated flow but where each conference has a specific goal. Some groups seem to want everyone to get in their perceived "correct" path. Some ambitious people within the movement seem to want to have a leadership roll.

Denver seems to want a decentralized type of organization; Independent Fellowships similar to the various churches of the New Testament after Christ was gone. Each had it's own flavor and focus. Denver claims the title of teacher and wants to teach gospel truths. He offers guidance on his website. It is up to each of us to implement these truths into action in our lives.

Individuals are moving forwards through the efforts of the fellowship they belong to. Some fellowships seem to be faltering, failing and disintegrating. These people then either leave the whole movement or seek out a more successful fellowship. Most people who stay are trying to become Zion-like people who are drawing on the teachings of Denver to guide their journey. I believe the fruits are more individual, with the people themselves. Many are becoming more Christ-like. Some are not.

I don't belong to a specific fellowship which meets physically. My observations are from my interfacing with a good number of these groups and people.

[FrankOne]

seems to be going down the snuffer path. They both do help people to break out of past chains but it seems that forming a platform always leads to standing on it.... and then building an elevated podium. ...then a microphone...then speakers... then bigger speakers ....and then... viola! A new church has sprung to life!

I think he is frustrated that he has tried so hard and his message is not really resonating with others. I totally understand the feeling.
However who is he ultimately working for? If it is Christ then the scriptures say we should find joy in the struggle. If it is himself then I can understand the frustration.

In the truest sense, I believe he is providing benefit to many. As you say, "joy in the struggle" which I would say "through pain comes learning".

[Telavian]

Rob got angry and posted a response to this thread.
http://upwardthought.blogspot.com/2023/ ... ldsff.html

I agree that many talk about things and do very little. Whether it is or is not priestcraft is a very challenging line to draw. In some cases it is okay to get paid for a ministry however in most cases it is not.

His response though is essentially saying that he sincerely believes what he teaches so it is okay. This ties into his life philosophy that he does what he thinks Christ would in his spot. I think this is generally a true principle, however it can very easily devolve into a very destructive feedback loop. We have seen this numerous times throughout history. Many have done horrendous things simply because they thought they were "doing good" or acting according to God's will.

The iron rod in Nephi's vision was the word of God. While this can certainly be personal revelation or direct words in a visitation, I think it should always be thought of as the scriptures. If we don't have a firm foundation then we are literally "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness". This is even if they are very well meaning.

[Wolfwoman]

Rob got angry and posted a response to this thread.
http://upwardthought.blogspot.com/2023/ ... ldsff.html

I agree that many talk about things and do very little. Whether it is or is not priestcraft is a very challenging line to draw. In some cases it is okay to get paid for a ministry however in most cases it is not.

His response though is essentially saying that he sincerely believes what he teaches so it is okay. This ties into his life philosophy that he does what he thinks Christ would in his spot. I think this is generally a true principle, however it can very easily devolve into a very destructive feedback loop. We have seen this numerous times throughout history. Many have done horrendous things simply because they thought they were "doing good" or acting according to God's will.

The iron rod in Nephi's vision was the word of God. While this can certainly be personal revelation or direct words in a visitation, I think it should always be thought of as the scriptures. If we don't have a firm foundation then we are literally "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness". This is even if they are very well meaning.

[marc]

Rob got angry and posted a response to this thread.
http://upwardthought.blogspot.com/2023/ ... ldsff.html

I agree that many talk about things and do very little. Whether it is or is not priestcraft is a very challenging line to draw. In some cases it is okay to get paid for a ministry however in most cases it is not.

His response though is essentially saying that he sincerely believes what he teaches so it is okay. This ties into his life philosophy that he does what he thinks Christ would in his spot. I think this is generally a true principle, however it can very easily devolve into a very destructive feedback loop. We have seen this numerous times throughout history. Many have done horrendous things simply because they thought they were "doing good" or acting according to God's will.

The iron rod in Nephi's vision was the word of God. While this can certainly be personal revelation or direct words in a visitation, I think it should always be thought of as the scriptures. If we don't have a firm foundation then we are literally "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness". This is even if they are very well meaning.

I don't see any indication that his response to this thread is one of anger. Lots of assumptions and speculations in this thread, too.

[Silver Pie]

I randomly check in on Rob Smith from time to time, and it seems he is now creating an official ministry site where he will start taking donations. This is somewhat different considering his previous very strong stand against such behavior. I understand that he has worked a lot over the years and basically got nothing in return so I completely understand from a financial perspective.

This site will include quizzes and badges so that people can "certify" their level of understanding of his material. These badges would then give people special permissions on the site and allow them to see specific things.

If I was to invest in anything like this then I would certainly want to know the financial status of his company. If it is successful then why would he need anything from us? If it is not successful then I can understand the need for money. I suspect the later is likely true considering he seems to be selling the software now and likely having complications getting customers.
https://primelabs.ms/

Also, if he wanted to simplify things he could create a facebook group, gab group or something similar that he could control. He doesn't need to create a full blown website for such a concept. A lot of people do facebook + Patreon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvESMiqm6CM

Holy crap!! He's gone off the rails.

[jack]

I hope Rob remembers to log off of his zoom calls before handling his personal business.

Is there something you would like to share with the class?

If not, cheap shots like this are not very becoming.

Edit: The same goes to anyone who "liked" that post smh

[Telavian]

Is there something you would like to share with the class?

If not, cheap shots like this are not very becoming.

Edit: The same goes to anyone who "liked" that post smh

It is a joke about Phil Davis vigorously pleasuring himself while issuing a stream of profanities. I don't think he is implying Rob does that. It was just a joke.

[Silver Pie]

Oh, also he said it’s not something he himself would ever want to do (take donations), but the Lord told him to do it, and he can prove it’s efficacy in the scriptures.

It reminds me of this (one of Denver Snuffer's talks about 10 years ago; emphasis mine):

There should not be some "ruler" among you Gentiles saying, "It's this way! It's gotta be this way! I prayed about it! The Lord said I get the money. I prayed about it, and the Lord wanted me to have a new Porsche, and I've got the down payment but I don't have the monthlies. Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord: give Fred a Porsche!" If that's the way you conduct it, you are no better than the rest of the Gentiles. You may as well stay and pay in whatever organization you have at present. You may as well buy red Cadillac Escalades or shopping malls with your tithes. You may as well put your tithing where it does no good for the poor and let your chosen leaders manage your money, along with their organizations.

edited to fix typo

[Silver Pie]

There are certainly some advantages. Not sure about the quizzes, badges, and grading though. Would we be quizzed by how much we understand about his interpretation of things?

Creating his own primary classes? If you pass the quizzes and get the badges, you can graduate to young men's or young women's?

[Silver Pie]

Sounds like it. Because if you don’t get it right then he’ll recommend which books you need to read to learn the right answer. He said it would be multiple choice. I was thinking it would be more along the lines of short answer or essay form, but maybe he doesn’t have time to do it that way.

I don't mean to be rude, but Rob- you are sounding more like an idiot than you ever have before - and I say this as someone who was there when you gave that incredibly dark and depressing talk at "the remnant family reunion" a decade ago in Cedaredge, Colorado.


No, I'm not saying you're him, Wolfwoman. I am part of a group that gets rss feeds, and his blog is on it. We were apprised of him making a post wherein he mentioned a thread on LDSFF about him going off the rails, so I suspect he's reading this thread now - because this thread is probably the one he was referencing (I didn't go to the blog post; I stopped reading his blog a long time before he got fired from his job for what he was posting; which decision from his employer I emphatically disagree with).

[Silver Pie]

This is a DONATION "opportunity" only for those that want to help him with what he is doing.

Hm. Not at all like Churches (TM) that request donations to help support the pastor or guru or monk or . . . .

[Silver Pie]

seems to be going down the snuffer path. They both do help people to break out of past chains but it seems that forming a platform always leads to standing on it.... and then building an elevated podium. ...then a microphone...then speakers... then bigger speakers ....and then... viola! A new church has sprung to life!

Nope. Denver has never asked for any donations at all. None.
Denver does not have badges or classes or levels you need to pass. None.

Rob has always been on my radar as someone to mistrust ever since I heard him talk in person in Cedaredge roughly ten years ago. Also, I think his claims of having seen Jesus are bogus - 100% his own imagination.

[Silver Pie]

I apologize, but...this is absurd. he's creating a cult.

Yep. With himself as the leader. And since it is well-known (at least among those I hang out with) that he wants the women, double beware.

[Silver Pie]

However who is he ultimately working for? If it is Christ then the scriptures say we should find joy in the struggle. If it is himself then I can understand the frustration.

Bingo

[Silver Pie]

Priestcraft.

If he sets himself up as a light unto the people, yes. If he is simply requesting support, no. It's the combination of gain and praise, and doing it for selfish or egocentric reasons.

2 Nephi 26
“He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.”

I'm pretty sure he has been setting himself up as a light to the world. I'm not sure when it started - probably after I stopped reading his blog.

In my opinion, it starts small, then escalates and before the fish realize it, they have been caught in his net of deceit, lust for women, seeking after honor, and donating to the cause.

I think he is still in the beginning stages, and I hope and pray this thread wakes him up, and stops him in his tracks - and that he seeks a REAL personal visitation from Jesus.

[Silver Pie]

I hope Rob remembers to log off of his zoom calls before handling his personal business.

That guy will never live it down. He's become a walking joke. (And those who get Shawn Henry's joke, know who I'm talking about.)

[Silver Pie]

I am not entirely sold on his revelatory and prophetic claims but I haven't entirely written them off either and part of the reason I'm not sold is I don't feel like I see much noteworthy fruit among his followers.

I think any progress being made in this Movement is being made in individual Fellowships; hence, a movement and not a church. As a whole (a Church), I agree with you.

Yep. The fruits aren't so great in some places; probably a lot better in others. The fruits don't come from Denver; they come from how well people heed the message, turn to Christ, and follow Christ (not some man, even if he be a true messenger from God).

[Silver Pie]

I hope Rob remembers to log off of his zoom calls before handling his personal business.

Is there something you would like to share with the class?

If not, cheap shots like this are not very becoming.

Edit: The same goes to anyone who "liked" that post smh

He wasn't talking about Rob; he was talking about the guy who didn't realize his zoom was still recording while he was jacking off during a break in a zoom meeting. It was big news for a while.