LDS Freedom Forum

All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:28 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:12 pm

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 12:44 pm

You think the problem doesn’t exist in a population of 8 billion. Why? Aren’t we supposed to still be members of Christ’s church? So what does the rest of the world have to do with it?

The point I was making with single women is that, for all purposes, they’re still essentially single women. No time with the husband. Raising children by themselves. Only financially supported if he’s mega wealthy.

I'm likely not explaining this well.

I mean that in the current population on earth, there are vast numbers of men that have no desire to marry. Hence, an imbalance would not be caused by some men having two wives. I'm being very general in saying this and not limiting it to any religion.

In a fundamentalist group, there are sometimes only 200- 5000 members and every man wants to marry , so... there is always an imbalance created when the few take more wives and leave the others with none. These groups almost always marry from within their congregation with a few getting wives from associated groups,.

I hope that makes sense.

It makes sense. I was thinking of the context of D&C 132 and it being something sanctioned by God, sealings, etc. Not a worldly polygamy, for lack of a better term.

maybe another reason that I enter these debates is because I've studied dreams/prophecies for a long time now and it does appear that we are entering a time like the world has never known before. As i just posted on the "polygamy is a crime" thread, the days described in Isaiah chapters 3-4 just might occur in our lives. I am guessing that polygamy will be very common at that time.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

Also, if it hasn't already been mentioned, there is something about 7 women seeking one man, and saying they would eat their own bread, but they wanted to be married to him to "take away their reproach." I'm thinking billions of men are getting destroyed, and that would be the case if ZERO women were destroyed, and we know that isn't going to be the case. So, destruction like has only been seen once before.

Not that I think we will be reduced down to 8 souls, but I think down to 1 or 2 billion is probably optimistic.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

We're all going to end up sealed together. Hopefully that doesn't conjure up images of free for all orgies, because it doesn't for me in the least. But I know some people jump right to that conclusion.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:59 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

We're all going to end up sealed together. Hopefully that doesn't conjure up images of free for all orgies, because it doesn't for me in the least. But I know some people jump right to that conclusion.

But that doesn’t have anything to do w/ the way polygamy was taught by Brigham and the modern era version of it. And Christ did say that sex was part of the equation WHEN he commanded or sanctioned by it. I don’t think sealing up has anything to do with polygamy.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:56 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

Also, if it hasn't already been mentioned, there is something about 7 women seeking one man, and saying they would eat their own bread, but they wanted to be married to him to "take away their reproach." I'm thinking billions of men are getting destroyed, and that would be the case if ZERO women were destroyed, and we know that isn't going to be the case. So, destruction like has only been seen once before.

Not that I think we will be reduced down to 8 souls, but I think down to 1 or 2 billion is probably optimistic.

I used to think that it would be great to live through the end times. Now... getting older, it doesn't look attractive at all. 2 out of 3 people I know, dead? No ability to buy provisions. Pure survival. and... who would want to carry the burden of 7 women and children in tow? I wouldn't want 7 women even in the best of times. More than one would be a trial.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:01 pm

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:59 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

We're all going to end up sealed together. Hopefully that doesn't conjure up images of free for all orgies, because it doesn't for me in the least. But I know some people jump right to that conclusion.

But that doesn’t have anything to do w/ the way polygamy was taught by Brigham and the modern era version of it. And Christ did say that sex was part of the equation WHEN he commanded or sanctioned by it. I don’t think sealing up has anything to do with polygamy.

Sounds like we are on the same page on this.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

yah, I guess Isaiah was just talking about evil women and evil men when he said 7 women going to one man. Evil people trying to justify polygamy due to mass starvation and near extinction events. *sarc

i can see it now , when 2/3rd of the population is dead and women heavily outnumber men, ...... all of the stuffy mormons along with other stiff orthodox men hiding , with painted signs in front of their homes . POLYGAMY IS EVIL, DON'T KNOCK ON MY DOOR! GOD COMMANDS YOU TO LEAVE!

hahaha.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:09 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

yah, I guess Isaiah was just talking about evil women and evil men when he said 7 women going to one man. Evil people trying to justify polygamy due to mass starvation and near extinction events. *sarc

i can see it now , when 2/3rd of the population is dead and women heavily outnumber men, ...... all of the stuffy mormons along with other stiff orthodox men hiding , with painted signs in front of their homes . POLYGAMY IS EVIL, DON'T KNOCK ON MY DOOR! GOD COMMANDS YOU TO LEAVE!

hahaha.

Isaiah was/is heavily symbolic. Even if it was literal, that doesn’t mean the Lord commanded or would command it. People and societies are free to commit all manner of abominations. Always looking for that loophole, right?

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:13 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:09 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:50 pm

The simple fact that men or women die or there may happen to be less men vs women, does not justify polygamy. But I digress, I’ve spent way too much mental effort engaging on this topic.

yah, I guess Isaiah was just talking about evil women and evil men when he said 7 women going to one man. Evil people trying to justify polygamy due to mass starvation and near extinction events. *sarc

i can see it now , when 2/3rd of the population is dead and women heavily outnumber men, ...... all of the stuffy mormons along with other stiff orthodox men hiding , with painted signs in front of their homes . POLYGAMY IS EVIL, DON'T KNOCK ON MY DOOR! GOD COMMANDS YOU TO LEAVE!

hahaha.

Isaiah was/is heavily symbolic. Even if it was literal, that doesn’t mean the Lord commanded or would command it. People and societies are free to commit all manner of abominations. Always looking for that loophole, right?

yah. Isaiah didn't mean what he said , and if he did, they are committing abominations. I understand. You've got it covered.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:17 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:13 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:09 pm

yah, I guess Isaiah was just talking about evil women and evil men when he said 7 women going to one man. Evil people trying to justify polygamy due to mass starvation and near extinction events. *sarc

i can see it now , when 2/3rd of the population is dead and women heavily outnumber men, ...... all of the stuffy mormons along with other stiff orthodox men hiding , with painted signs in front of their homes . POLYGAMY IS EVIL, DON'T KNOCK ON MY DOOR! GOD COMMANDS YOU TO LEAVE!

hahaha.

Isaiah was/is heavily symbolic. Even if it was literal, that doesn’t mean the Lord commanded or would command it. People and societies are free to commit all manner of abominations. Always looking for that loophole, right?

yah. Isaiah didn't mean what he said , and if he did, they are committing abominations. I understand. You've got it covered.

I didn’t say he didn’t mean what he prophesied, but to be deaf to the idea that he was speaking symbolically is just silly. Just look at the rest of his writings, was he being literal with those too? The concept of marriage and brides is quite symbolic all throughout scripture. Michelle Stone did an entire podcast on this section of Isaiah and made some interesting points.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:56 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:39 pm All roads lead to polygamy… or so it seems.

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

Also, if it hasn't already been mentioned, there is something about 7 women seeking one man, and saying they would eat their own bread, but they wanted to be married to him to "take away their reproach." I'm thinking billions of men are getting destroyed, and that would be the case if ZERO women were destroyed, and we know that isn't going to be the case. So, destruction like has only been seen once before.

Not that I think we will be reduced down to 8 souls, but I think down to 1 or 2 billion is probably optimistic.

I just did the math.
7 is not necessarily literally 7 in the Jewish world, but I went with 7 since that’s the number we have.
At 8 billion world population, to get to a ratio of 7 women to 1 man, roughly 3.5 billion men would have to die.

China sort of helped us out with their one child policy, creating way too many men for the amount of women in China.

Unfortunately even with them rescinding their one child policy, it seems the Chinese population is going down.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:02 pm

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:56 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

Also, if it hasn't already been mentioned, there is something about 7 women seeking one man, and saying they would eat their own bread, but they wanted to be married to him to "take away their reproach." I'm thinking billions of men are getting destroyed, and that would be the case if ZERO women were destroyed, and we know that isn't going to be the case. So, destruction like has only been seen once before.

Not that I think we will be reduced down to 8 souls, but I think down to 1 or 2 billion is probably optimistic.

I used to think that it would be great to live through the end times. Now... getting older, it doesn't look attractive at all. 2 out of 3 people I know, dead? No ability to buy provisions. Pure survival. and... who would want to carry the burden of 7 women and children in tow? I wouldn't want 7 women even in the best of times. More than one would be a trial.

According to Isaiah you don’t have to take care of those women and children though. Just impregnate the women and let them take your last name and they’re all good! They’ll work for their own bread and clothing.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:28 pm

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:56 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:43 pm

at some point in time...

the book of revelation seems to indicate it.

2/3rds of the population dies. Or...shall we try to discount that and call it fake gospel?

Isaiah describes a day of no perfume, no new clothes, etc and says that men shall perish in war and 7 women will go to one man.

it does seem logical.

Also, if it hasn't already been mentioned, there is something about 7 women seeking one man, and saying they would eat their own bread, but they wanted to be married to him to "take away their reproach." I'm thinking billions of men are getting destroyed, and that would be the case if ZERO women were destroyed, and we know that isn't going to be the case. So, destruction like has only been seen once before.

Not that I think we will be reduced down to 8 souls, but I think down to 1 or 2 billion is probably optimistic.

I just did the math.
7 is not necessarily literally 7 in the Jewish world, but I went with 7 since that’s the number we have.
At 8 billion world population, to get to a ratio of 7 women to 1 man, roughly 3.5 billion men would have to die.

China sort of helped us out with their one child policy, creating way too many men for the amount of women in China.

Unfortunately even with them rescinding their one child policy, it seems the Chinese population is going down.

so, 2/3rds of all people die, according to Revelation, = 5.28 billion die with 2.72 billion surviving.
so...if the ratio of Isaiah is some kind of average then 2.38 billion women survive and 340 million men survive.
Sounds pretty bleak. I guess it's better than Noah's time. 8 people survived!

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:32 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:02 pm

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 5:56 pm

Also, if it hasn't already been mentioned, there is something about 7 women seeking one man, and saying they would eat their own bread, but they wanted to be married to him to "take away their reproach." I'm thinking billions of men are getting destroyed, and that would be the case if ZERO women were destroyed, and we know that isn't going to be the case. So, destruction like has only been seen once before.

Not that I think we will be reduced down to 8 souls, but I think down to 1 or 2 billion is probably optimistic.

I used to think that it would be great to live through the end times. Now... getting older, it doesn't look attractive at all. 2 out of 3 people I know, dead? No ability to buy provisions. Pure survival. and... who would want to carry the burden of 7 women and children in tow? I wouldn't want 7 women even in the best of times. More than one would be a trial.

According to Isaiah you don’t have to take care of those women and children though. Just impregnate the women and let them take your last name and they’re all good! They’ll work for their own bread and clothing.

yah, I've wondered about the wording of that. If it's post apocalypse, then I can't see any other interpretation other than the women will work for the man - farming, etc in trade to be a part of the family . This is pretty much identical with the definition of concubine except that they have his name which means marriage. I'm not sure that impregnation is a requisite though , hahaha. I think that restraint would be in order.

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 1:07 am

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:32 pm

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:02 pm

I used to think that it would be great to live through the end times. Now... getting older, it doesn't look attractive at all. 2 out of 3 people I know, dead? No ability to buy provisions. Pure survival. and... who would want to carry the burden of 7 women and children in tow? I wouldn't want 7 women even in the best of times. More than one would be a trial.

According to Isaiah you don’t have to take care of those women and children though. Just impregnate the women and let them take your last name and they’re all good! They’ll work for their own bread and clothing.

yah, I've wondered about the wording of that. If it's post apocalypse, then I can't see any other interpretation other than the women will work for the man - farming, etc in trade to be a part of the family . This is pretty much identical with the definition of concubine except that they have his name which means marriage. I'm not sure that impregnation is a requisite though , hahaha. I think that restraint would be in order.

Why would restraint be in order?

I did some research on it and all the commentaries say that taking away their reproach = marriage and children. For a woman to be single and childless in the ancient Jewish world was a great shame. So the man would take away their shame by marrying and impregnating them.

The verse sort of makes sense in that world, but not in our world. There is no shame in our modern world if a woman does not marry and does not have children. So it’s hard for me to take this verse as something that is supposed to literally happen in the future. It would take a HUGE paradigm shift for us to arrive at the ancient notion that a single/childless woman should be ashamed.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 5:43 am

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 1:07 am

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 28th, 2023, 6:32 pm

According to Isaiah you don’t have to take care of those women and children though. Just impregnate the women and let them take your last name and they’re all good! They’ll work for their own bread and clothing.

yah, I've wondered about the wording of that. If it's post apocalypse, then I can't see any other interpretation other than the women will work for the man - farming, etc in trade to be a part of the family . This is pretty much identical with the definition of concubine except that they have his name which means marriage. I'm not sure that impregnation is a requisite though , hahaha. I think that restraint would be in order.

Why would restraint be in order?

I did some research on it and all the commentaries say that taking away their reproach = marriage and children. For a woman to be single and childless in the ancient Jewish world was a great shame. So the man would take away their shame by marrying and impregnating them.

The verse sort of makes sense in that world, but not in our world. There is no shame in our modern world if a woman does not marry and does not have children. So it’s hard for me to take this verse as something that is supposed to literally happen in the future. It would take a HUGE paradigm shift for us to arrive at the ancient notion that a single/childless woman should be ashamed.

When times get really bad, like post-apocalyptic warzone, plagues of Egypt bad, you won't hear one peep of feminism even from the most ardent, purple haired harpy alive. When the going gets tough women want a man, and not the beta simps that hang around with feminists, either.

In other words, you will get your huge paradigm shift.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 8:17 am

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 5:43 am

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 1:07 am

yah, I've wondered about the wording of that. If it's post apocalypse, then I can't see any other interpretation other than the women will work for the man - farming, etc in trade to be a part of the family . This is pretty much identical with the definition of concubine except that they have his name which means marriage. I'm not sure that impregnation is a requisite though , hahaha. I think that restraint would be in order.

Why would restraint be in order?

I did some research on it and all the commentaries say that taking away their reproach = marriage and children. For a woman to be single and childless in the ancient Jewish world was a great shame. So the man would take away their shame by marrying and impregnating them.

The verse sort of makes sense in that world, but not in our world. There is no shame in our modern world if a woman does not marry and does not have children. So it’s hard for me to take this verse as something that is supposed to literally happen in the future. It would take a HUGE paradigm shift for us to arrive at the ancient notion that a single/childless woman should be ashamed.

When times get really bad, like post-apocalyptic warzone, plagues of Egypt bad, you won't hear one peep of feminism even from the most ardent, purple haired harpy alive. When the going gets tough women want a man, and not the beta simps that hang around with feminists, either.

In other words, you will get your huge paradigm shift.

Looking forward to it.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 9:43 am

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 8:17 am

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑October 29th, 2023, 5:43 am

Why would restraint be in order?

I did some research on it and all the commentaries say that taking away their reproach = marriage and children. For a woman to be single and childless in the ancient Jewish world was a great shame. So the man would take away their shame by marrying and impregnating them.

The verse sort of makes sense in that world, but not in our world. There is no shame in our modern world if a woman does not marry and does not have children. So it’s hard for me to take this verse as something that is supposed to literally happen in the future. It would take a HUGE paradigm shift for us to arrive at the ancient notion that a single/childless woman should be ashamed.

When times get really bad, like post-apocalyptic warzone, plagues of Egypt bad, you won't hear one peep of feminism even from the most ardent, purple haired harpy alive. When the going gets tough women want a man, and not the beta simps that hang around with feminists, either.

In other words, you will get your huge paradigm shift.

Looking forward to it.

I'm looking forward to the destination, the journey there, not so much.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:14 am

FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:09 am

Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:20 am

Rob got fired because of the statements below. Everything has some truth to it however that doesn't make it true itself.

Women "lose value" as they get older. Therefore men should date women as close to 18 as possible.
This is false and overly simplifies the value of women. His wife is presumably older than 18 so is she no longer valuable?

“Your physical attractiveness is your most valuable asset in finding a husband,”
Are life skills not important? Should men marry attractive bimbos? I need a women that will work alongside me when the going gets tough, not a trophy wife.

"Women will always, for example, make decisions based on feelings rather than logic"
What about Esther? What about Ada Lovelace who is the mother of modern computing.

“If you are a man, any woman you marry will either be a mom or a daughter to you. If you are a woman, any man you marry will either be a dad or a son to you,”
Incest? What about equal partners? Is that not possible?

“In an ideal situation, the potential husband is fulfilling the role of father, the potential wife is fulfilling the role of daughter.”
What?

“You can’t be surprised at child sex trafficking when you believe that a 6 year old can choose whether they are a boy or a girl or a 14 year old girl can decide to have an abortion,”
This makes no sense. Kidnapping and forcing a child into sex work is the same as gender confusion?

"I’ve employed dozens of people of those currently 18-26 or so, and I could not have a lower opinion of these people."
Why is he teaching these people if he dislikes them so much?

“The fact is that one cannot both be a peaceful Muslim and a faithful Muslim. In other words, Muslims are only peaceful to the degree that they are not Muslims,”
This is frankly stupid. I had a business partner who was Muslim and was a very kind person. He sacrificed a lot to help others.

interesting quotes.

The interpretation of what he says depends on the person reading the words. Words are as enigmatic as egyptian hieroglyphs due to the myriad of perspectives of differing individuals. It's like people today, interpreting the words of Christ and seeing opposing concepts. It's like a scientist trying to explain the coefficient of refraction to a person that claims that things half submerged in water magically change shape.

We all see through a lens.

In general, his points are sound and that is why people follow him . .... and are a part of his new cult. Gold star on the forehead and 'you may pass on to greater light and knowledge'.

I follow him like I follow you, FrankOne. And perhaps a dozen or so others here. Very good signal to noise ratio, and the signal is not only pretty clear but helpful.

i read this again and I think i need to clarify my position on this.

First, i believe I've always had some kind of internal compass that turns me away from anyone that says "follow me". I'm not sure that my compass is always right, but it's like feeling an opposing magnet or something and I automatically steer clear.

I got the indication that he is beginning to create a following which now appears to be intentional. For me, when it becomes intentional then the natural man has taken charge. I personally don't like being looked upon as a leader , it feels uncomfortable to me except in the business world and the necessities in managing people that must be lead to get work done.

so, my personal bias got in the way in giving my opinion of this man which demonstrates that i was in error. He is very intelligent, very well versed, and I think that many would gain by gleaning the diamonds found in his words. He's a man and every man bears at least a few diamonds for those willing to listen. Yet, if he ever stands up and declares boldly that he is the OMAS, I would walk the other way. If he is 'the one' then whoever his God is ...is not the one that I follow.

the future will be an amazing and spectacular exhibition. I believe it is best to do everything possible to know the God that you worship and follow him alone. To know thyself is to discard the natural man and to find Christ. Then you'll know God.