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Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 11:38 am
by Telavian
larsenb wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:57 am
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:53 am
larsenb wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:48 am
What was his "university position" and where, if you don't mind saying.
University of Montana. He was tenured at the time so he was likely an associate professor.
Thanks. What field? Someone mentioned he was an engineer. Comments he allegedly made and got fired for, don't seem to be comments that an engineer would publicly make, unless he made them in his religious books/blogs, etc., and someone in his Department/University picked up on them.
I believe what happened is he had been getting more and more edgy and then someone caught wind and essentially took it upon themselves to get him fired.
It is no surprise he was fired. Unless you are a member of a protected group then you can't say your students are worthless and expect no repercussions.
http://www.montanakaimin.com/features/e ... 19994.html
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 11:40 am
by Wolfwoman
larsenb wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:57 am
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:53 am
larsenb wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:48 am
What was his "university position" and where, if you don't mind saying.
University of Montana. He was tenured at the time so he was likely an associate professor.
Thanks. What field? Someone mentioned he was an engineer. Comments he allegedly made and got fired for, don't seem to be comments that an engineer would publicly make, unless he made them in his religious books/blogs, etc., and someone in his Department/University picked up on them.
Yeah, it was his personal/religious blog that got him fired. He didn’t use a pseudonym or anything like that.
I assume the biggest thing that the university was concerned about was the comments he made about underage girls. He said it’s a fact that the most attractive women to grown men are 16 year old young women.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 11:43 am
by Telavian
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:09 am
In general, his points are sound and that is why people follow him . .... and are a part of his new cult. Gold star on the forehead and 'you may pass on to greater light and knowledge'.
He does have some really good points. I agree with most things he says. However it seems to be sorely lacking in any measure of love. Below is a one-star review for his book Through Faith which I think sums up his approach perfectly.
"Rob gets upset when people don’t leave him reviews. He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude for his books on more than one occasion, which he feels are so valuable. There’s a reason it is the same handful of people leaving reviews on his books, and it’s because they’ve been made to feel they have to, or they’re disappointing God—not because they find enough value in the books to do it of their own accord, but because Rob smacks them upside the head and tells them they need to repent.
I really want to like Rob’s books because he seems to believe they’re so valuable. But having read most of all of them, and considering for a long time that maybe they’re not inspiring because this “level of truth” just goes way beyond what I can handle (really trying to give him the benefit of the doubt) I’ve concluded Rob is self-deceived about what he's doing. He seems to get some satisfaction from mapping out all of this thoughts and beliefs in a linear way, but there’s no spirit it in it.
Joseph Smith taught great magnitudes of truth. His words inspire me, edify me, build my faith, and draw me closer to the Savior. It’s a living, spiritual experience. His words carry the Spirit. They feel alive. There’s a tangible goodness to them. Rob’s formulations feel devoid of that. They’re cold and factual—like a computer. I find greater joy in just reading the Book of Mormon than I do Rob’s book on joy. It’s ironic—reading his book on joy leaves me feeling empty and depressed. His book on faith, though not offensive, leaves me feeling depressed and LESS motivated than I was before. I know I'm not alone in my experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if you feel this way too. Sometimes it just takes someone shining a light to see what a thing has been all along.
Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending. It’s totally contrary to the Christ the Spirit testifies of to me—that same edifying Spirit that fills me when reading Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the prophets, etc. There’s light. It’s spiritually discernible. I can see how a self-deceived person might come to believe Jesus is the way Rob behaves—but I believe that requires a very spirit-less, two-dimensional reading of Jesus. After all, the paradox of self-deception is that it sounds reasonable to its captive.
It almost feels like Joseph knows how to dance, while Rob is focused on timing the steps, placement, and breaking it down to an algorithm a computer could use. The way he’s tried to break down the human experience feels like the way an AI would do it: observing everything the behavior but missing the soul inside. I had an old boss like this; the turnover at his company in the last 7 years has been incredible… he’s well on his way to concluding, “I must be the only sane and reasonable person on the earth.” I think Rob is too, and unfortunately he’ll see a way to justify his behavior all the way to the end (because everyone eventually rejected Jesus, too).
The spirit about Rob is the spirt of a cold, analytical, machine. It permeates his books. As you read them, you'll find it permeating you, draining your passion, love, desire, and inspiration. Everything will look like a math equation, and you will feel like a computer."
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... B096VKW71V
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 11:45 am
by FrankOne
Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:14 am
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:09 am
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 10:20 am
Rob got fired because of the statements below. Everything has some truth to it however that doesn't make it true itself.
Women "lose value" as they get older. Therefore men should date women as close to 18 as possible.
This is false and overly simplifies the value of women. His wife is presumably older than 18 so is she no longer valuable?
“Your physical attractiveness is your most valuable asset in finding a husband,”
Are life skills not important? Should men marry attractive bimbos? I need a women that will work alongside me when the going gets tough, not a trophy wife.
"Women will always, for example, make decisions based on feelings rather than logic"
What about Esther? What about Ada Lovelace who is the mother of modern computing.
“If you are a man, any woman you marry will either be a mom or a daughter to you. If you are a woman, any man you marry will either be a dad or a son to you,”
Incest? What about equal partners? Is that not possible?
“In an ideal situation, the potential husband is fulfilling the role of father, the potential wife is fulfilling the role of daughter.”
What?
“You can’t be surprised at child sex trafficking when you believe that a 6 year old can choose whether they are a boy or a girl or a 14 year old girl can decide to have an abortion,”
This makes no sense. Kidnapping and forcing a child into sex work is the same as gender confusion?
"I’ve employed dozens of people of those currently 18-26 or so, and I could not have a lower opinion of these people."
Why is he teaching these people if he dislikes them so much?
“The fact is that one cannot both be a peaceful Muslim and a faithful Muslim. In other words, Muslims are only peaceful to the degree that they are not Muslims,”
This is frankly stupid. I had a business partner who was Muslim and was a very kind person. He sacrificed a lot to help others.
interesting quotes.
The interpretation of what he says depends on the person reading the words. Words are as enigmatic as egyptian hieroglyphs due to the myriad of perspectives of differing individuals. It's like people today, interpreting the words of Christ and seeing opposing concepts. It's like a scientist trying to explain the coefficient of refraction to a person that claims that things half submerged in water magically change shape.
We all see through a lens.
In general, his points are sound and that is why people follow him . .... and are a part of his new cult. Gold star on the forehead and 'you may pass on to greater light and knowledge'.
I follow him like I follow you, FrankOne. And perhaps a dozen or so others here. Very good signal to noise ratio, and the signal is not only pretty clear but helpful.
I love the "very good signal to noise ratio" phrase. I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to use that in the future.
There are many here that are VeGSToNRs. Good acronym? HAHAHAHA
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 11:57 am
by FrankOne
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:43 am
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:09 am
In general, his points are sound and that is why people follow him . .... and are a part of his new cult. Gold star on the forehead and 'you may pass on to greater light and knowledge'.
He does have some really good points. I agree with most things he says. However it seems to be sorely lacking in any measure of love. Below is a one-star review for his book Through Faith which I think sums up his approach perfectly.
"Rob gets upset when people don’t leave him reviews. He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude for his books on more than one occasion, which he feels are so valuable. There’s a reason it is the same handful of people leaving reviews on his books, and it’s because they’ve been made to feel they have to, or they’re disappointing God—not because they find enough value in the books to do it of their own accord, but because Rob smacks them upside the head and tells them they need to repent.
I really want to like Rob’s books because he seems to believe they’re so valuable. But having read most of all of them, and considering for a long time that maybe they’re not inspiring because this “level of truth” just goes way beyond what I can handle (really trying to give him the benefit of the doubt) I’ve concluded Rob is self-deceived about what he's doing. He seems to get some satisfaction from mapping out all of this thoughts and beliefs in a linear way, but there’s no spirit it in it.
Joseph Smith taught great magnitudes of truth. His words inspire me, edify me, build my faith, and draw me closer to the Savior. It’s a living, spiritual experience. His words carry the Spirit. They feel alive. There’s a tangible goodness to them. Rob’s formulations feel devoid of that. They’re cold and factual—like a computer. I find greater joy in just reading the Book of Mormon than I do Rob’s book on joy. It’s ironic—reading his book on joy leaves me feeling empty and depressed. His book on faith, though not offensive, leaves me feeling depressed and LESS motivated than I was before. I know I'm not alone in my experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if you feel this way too. Sometimes it just takes someone shining a light to see what a thing has been all along.
Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending. It’s totally contrary to the Christ the Spirit testifies of to me—that same edifying Spirit that fills me when reading Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the prophets, etc. There’s light. It’s spiritually discernible. I can see how a self-deceived person might come to believe Jesus is the way Rob behaves—but I believe that requires a very spirit-less, two-dimensional reading of Jesus. After all, the paradox of self-deception is that it sounds reasonable to its captive.
It almost feels like Joseph knows how to dance, while Rob is focused on timing the steps, placement, and breaking it down to an algorithm a computer could use. The way he’s tried to break down the human experience feels like the way an AI would do it: observing everything the behavior but missing the soul inside. I had an old boss like this; the turnover at his company in the last 7 years has been incredible… he’s well on his way to concluding, “I must be the only sane and reasonable person on the earth.” I think Rob is too, and unfortunately he’ll see a way to justify his behavior all the way to the end (because everyone eventually rejected Jesus, too).
The spirit about Rob is the spirt of a cold, analytical, machine. It permeates his books. As you read them, you'll find it permeating you, draining your passion, love, desire, and inspiration. Everything will look like a math equation, and you will feel like a computer."
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... B096VKW71V
hm.
In your quoted description of Rob's disposition, what comes to mind is how similar it is to how Jehovah is characterized in the OT.
-"Rob gets upset
-He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude
-Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending
I could quote the corresponding attributes of Jehovah from the OT, but would it be helpful? Most Christians don't like close study of the words in the OT. A bit unsettling.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:04 pm
by larsenb
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:43 am
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:09 am
In general, his points are sound and that is why people follow him . .... and are a part of his new cult. Gold star on the forehead and 'you may pass on to greater light and knowledge'.
He does have some really good points. I agree with most things he says. However it seems to be sorely lacking in any measure of love. Below is a one-star review for his book Through Faith which I think sums up his approach perfectly.
"Rob gets upset when people don’t leave him reviews. He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude for his books on more than one occasion, which he feels are so valuable. There’s a reason it is the same handful of people leaving reviews on his books, and it’s because they’ve been made to feel they have to, or they’re disappointing God—not because they find enough value in the books to do it of their own accord, but because Rob smacks them upside the head and tells them they need to repent.
I really want to like Rob’s books because he seems to believe they’re so valuable. But having read most of all of them, and considering for a long time that maybe they’re not inspiring because this “level of truth” just goes way beyond what I can handle (really trying to give him the benefit of the doubt) I’ve concluded Rob is self-deceived about what he's doing. He seems to get some satisfaction from mapping out all of this thoughts and beliefs in a linear way, but there’s no spirit it in it.
Joseph Smith taught great magnitudes of truth. His words inspire me, edify me, build my faith, and draw me closer to the Savior. It’s a living, spiritual experience. His words carry the Spirit. They feel alive. There’s a tangible goodness to them. Rob’s formulations feel devoid of that. They’re cold and factual—like a computer. I find greater joy in just reading the Book of Mormon than I do Rob’s book on joy. It’s ironic—reading his book on joy leaves me feeling empty and depressed. His book on faith, though not offensive, leaves me feeling depressed and LESS motivated than I was before. I know I'm not alone in my experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if you feel this way too. Sometimes it just takes someone shining a light to see what a thing has been all along.
Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending. It’s totally contrary to the Christ the Spirit testifies of to me—that same edifying Spirit that fills me when reading Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the prophets, etc. There’s light. It’s spiritually discernible. I can see how a self-deceived person might come to believe Jesus is the way Rob behaves—but I believe that requires a very spirit-less, two-dimensional reading of Jesus. After all, the paradox of self-deception is that it sounds reasonable to its captive.
It almost feels like Joseph knows how to dance, while Rob is focused on timing the steps, placement, and breaking it down to an algorithm a computer could use. The way he’s tried to break down the human experience feels like the way an AI would do it: observing everything the behavior but missing the soul inside. I had an old boss like this; the turnover at his company in the last 7 years has been incredible… he’s well on his way to concluding, “I must be the only sane and reasonable person on the earth.” I think Rob is too, and unfortunately he’ll see a way to justify his behavior all the way to the end (because everyone eventually rejected Jesus, too).
The spirit about Rob is the spirt of a cold, analytical, machine. It permeates his books. As you read them, you'll find it permeating you, draining your passion, love, desire, and inspiration. Everything will look like a math equation, and you will feel like a computer."
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... B096VKW71V
Wow! Biting.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:04 pm
by Telavian
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:57 am
hm.
In your quoted description of Rob's disposition, what comes to mind is how similar it is to how Jehovah is characterized in the OT.
-"Rob gets upset
-He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude
-Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending
I could quote the corresponding attributes of Jehovah from the OT, but would it be helpful? Most Christians don't like close study of the words in the OT. A bit unsettling.
There is certainly some truth to this. God is not always sunshine and roses.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:14 pm
by FrankOne
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:04 pm
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:57 am
hm.
In your quoted description of Rob's disposition, what comes to mind is how similar it is to how Jehovah is characterized in the OT.
-"Rob gets upset
-He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude
-Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending
I could quote the corresponding attributes of Jehovah from the OT, but would it be helpful? Most Christians don't like close study of the words in the OT. A bit unsettling.
There is certainly some truth to this. God is not always sunshine and roses.
When I first encountered Rob's videos, the connection between him and Jehovah seemed very apparent. I see Jehovah talking as I listen to him.
It's all about who your God is and where you want to go. Christ is the choice for me.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:29 pm
by Bronco73idi
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:14 pm
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:04 pm
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:57 am
hm.
In your quoted description of Rob's disposition, what comes to mind is how similar it is to how Jehovah is characterized in the OT.
-"Rob gets upset
-He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude
-Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending
I could quote the corresponding attributes of Jehovah from the OT, but would it be helpful? Most Christians don't like close study of the words in the OT. A bit unsettling.
There is certainly some truth to this. God is not always sunshine and roses.
When I first encountered Rob's videos, the connection between him and Jehovah seemed very apparent. I see Jehovah talking as I listen to him.
It's all about who your God is and where you want to go. Christ is the choice for me.
I say we can quote Jesus Christ from the New Testament also.
A good master chastises the student when needed.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:44 pm
by Original_Intent
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:14 pm
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:04 pm
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 11:57 am
hm.
In your quoted description of Rob's disposition, what comes to mind is how similar it is to how Jehovah is characterized in the OT.
-"Rob gets upset
-He's chastised his readers for their ingratitude
-Not to mention, his constant undertone is anger, frustration, and arrogance. He bites like an agitated pit bull, whose responses seem disproportionately intense and condescending
I could quote the corresponding attributes of Jehovah from the OT, but would it be helpful? Most Christians don't like close study of the words in the OT. A bit unsettling.
There is certainly some truth to this. God is not always sunshine and roses.
When I first encountered Rob's videos, the connection between him and Jehovah seemed very apparent. I see Jehovah talking as I listen to him.
It's all about who your God is and where you want to go. Christ is the choice for me.
I have been thinking A LOT lately about defining where exactly I want to go.
There is a lot more to it than playing harps for eternity
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
by marc
Perhaps using your desire to rend the veil and cement your relationship with Jesus Christ in eternity as a litmus might determine whether you give Rob any more time. Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down. It's not even on your radar. But if you want Jesus like you need water and you need air, then you will do whatever it takes to learn as much as you can from wherever you can (being led by the Holy Ghost, of course!) and that includes the wisdom that Rob has to share. He's not forcing anyone to listen to him. But if you (generally speaking) spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises as you do criticizing his methods, then you would be much better for it. It's really that simple.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 12:57 pm
by FrankOne
Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:44 pm
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:14 pm
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:04 pm
There is certainly some truth to this. God is not always sunshine and roses.
When I first encountered Rob's videos, the connection between him and Jehovah seemed very apparent. I see Jehovah talking as I listen to him.
It's all about who your God is and where you want to go. Christ is the choice for me.
I have been thinking A LOT lately about defining where exactly I want to go.
There is a lot more to it than playing harps for eternity
this may sound like it confuses what I've said before, but i might just end up in Jehovah's camp for a while.
Everything in it's time.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 1:03 pm
by Telavian
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
Perhaps using your desire to rend the veil and cement your relationship with Jesus Christ in eternity as a litmus might determine whether you give Rob any more time. Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down. It's not even on your radar. But if you want Jesus like you need water and you need air, then you will do whatever it takes to learn as much as you can from wherever you can (being led by the Holy Ghost, of course!) and that includes the wisdom that Rob has to share. He's not forcing anyone to listen to him. But if you (generally speaking) spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises as you do criticizing his methods, then you would be much better for it. It's really that simple.
I agree with the sentiment, however you are assuming a lot of things.
Rob has a superior way, because?
Rob teaches truth, because?
We should trust everything Rob says about himself, because?
We should ignore the times Rob was wrong, because?
I have noticed that any discussion about Rob always boils down to 2 things. Which coincidentally is the same for the LDS church.
1. Rob (RMN) is a superior person with a superior way and we just need to trust in him.
2. Rob (RMN) is a well-intentioned person who advocates for things that are not true.
It seems for some Rob is a cult like Denver, Phil Davis, the LDS church, or many factions of the remnant movement.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 1:04 pm
by Telavian
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:57 pm
this may sound like it confuses what I've said before, but i might just end up in Jehovah's camp for a while.
Everything in it's time.
It is confusing, because it sounded like you said Rob was speaking for Jehovah. So you should be in Rob's camp, no?
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 1:11 pm
by marc
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:03 pm
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
Perhaps using your desire to rend the veil and cement your relationship with Jesus Christ in eternity as a litmus might determine whether you give Rob any more time. Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down. It's not even on your radar. But if you want Jesus like you need water and you need air, then you will do whatever it takes to learn as much as you can from wherever you can (being led by the Holy Ghost, of course!) and that includes the wisdom that Rob has to share. He's not forcing anyone to listen to him. But if you (generally speaking) spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises as you do criticizing his methods, then you would be much better for it. It's really that simple.
I agree with the sentiment, however
you are assuming a lot of things.
Rob has a superior way, because?
Rob teaches truth, because?
We should trust everything Rob says about himself, because?
We should ignore the times Rob was wrong, because?
I have noticed that any discussion about Rob always boils down to 2 things. Which coincidentally is the same for the LDS church.
1. Rob (RMN) is a superior person with a superior way and we just need to trust in him.
2. Rob (RMN) is a well-intentioned person who advocates for things that are not true.
It seems for some Rob is a cult like Denver, Phil Davis, the LDS church, or many factions of the remnant movement.
You misinterpreted me. I am not assuming that Rob is superior or that you should trust Rob. I added a caveat that the Holy Spirit should be your guide. What you ought to have gleaned from my post is that with the Holy Ghost, you ought to explore every avenue, particularly where someone has claimed to have already explored it. Then you can judge whether it bears fruit because, you know, Holy Ghost. You can apply this to Rob or to Denver or to some other YouTube guru. The important take-away is doing whatever it takes to open while Jesus is still knocking. A drowning man does not ask the man who is throwing a life preserver to him whether his name is Rob or Russell or whether he believes in Jesus or whether he is a prophet. The drowning man grabs on for dear life in order to live. From there, your choices increase and so on. I see a room full of drowning people arguing about why they shouldn't grab a life preserver when it is being offered. Maybe you have another life preserver thrown your way and you can choose it instead. More power to you.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 1:25 pm
by Original_Intent
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:03 pm
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
Perhaps using your desire to rend the veil and cement your relationship with Jesus Christ in eternity as a litmus might determine whether you give Rob any more time. Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down. It's not even on your radar. But if you want Jesus like you need water and you need air, then you will do whatever it takes to learn as much as you can from wherever you can (being led by the Holy Ghost, of course!) and that includes the wisdom that Rob has to share. He's not forcing anyone to listen to him. But if you (generally speaking) spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises as you do criticizing his methods, then you would be much better for it. It's really that simple.
I agree with the sentiment, however you are assuming a lot of things.
Rob has a superior way, because?
not necessarily, although it is superior to most, because most just sit around complaining about the LDS church (or alternatively, living the TBM life)
Rob teaches truth, because?
because it is (generally) sweet to my soul. NOT warm fuzzies, far from it.
We should trust everything Rob says about himself, because?
You shouldn't
We should ignore the times Rob was wrong, because?
like I said before he has good signal to noise ratio, and generally I find the signal helpful to me. Might not be for you. Find a good signal that helps you.
I have noticed that any discussion about Rob always boils down to 2 things. Which coincidentally is the same for the LDS church.
1. Rob (RMN) is a superior person with a superior way and we just need to trust in him.
To the first part of the sentence it is superior to what I am living, and superior to what any CHURCH that I am aware of teaches. To the end of your sentence, I don;t think we need to or even should put our trust in Rob. You create a false dichotomy.
2. Rob (RMN) is a well-intentioned person who advocates for things that are not true.
Like I said, a false dichotomy
It seems for some Rob is a cult like Denver, Phil Davis, the LDS church, or many factions of the remnant movement.
A cult is in the heart of the leader (if there is one) and in the followers (if there are any. I don't consider Rob my leader nor am I a follower of his. I find him saying things that are helpful to me and seems to be a better path than the one I am walking.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 1:51 pm
by Telavian
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:11 pm
You misinterpreted me. I am not assuming that Rob is superior or that you should trust Rob. I added a caveat that the Holy Spirit should be your guide. What you ought to have gleaned from my post is that with the Holy Ghost, you ought to explore every avenue, particularly where someone has claimed to have already explored it. Then you can judge whether it bears fruit because, you know, Holy Ghost. You can apply this to Rob or to Denver or to some other YouTube guru. The important take-away is doing whatever it takes to open while Jesus is still knocking. A drowning man does not ask the man who is throwing a life preserver to him whether his name is Rob or Russell or whether he believes in Jesus or whether he is a prophet. The drowning man grabs on for dear life in order to live. From there, your choices increase and so on. I see a room full of drowning people arguing about why they shouldn't grab a life preserver when it is being offered. Maybe you have another life preserver thrown your way and you can choose it instead. More power to you.
I agree that we are all drowning spiritually. We are all lost and need Christ.
I don't want to be pedantic, however you absolutely are assuming Rob is a superior person.
"Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down"
"If you spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises ... then you would be much better for it"
I don't know how to read this without coming to the conclusion that Rob has some knowledge that would allow me to see Christ's face. This knowledge would make him superior, no?
If I am spiritually lazy then Rob is not for me. If I am spiritually advanced, then Rob is for me.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 3:49 pm
by marc
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:51 pm
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:11 pm
You misinterpreted me. I am not assuming that Rob is superior or that you should trust Rob. I added a caveat that the Holy Spirit should be your guide. What you ought to have gleaned from my post is that with the Holy Ghost, you ought to explore every avenue, particularly where someone has claimed to have already explored it. Then you can judge whether it bears fruit because, you know, Holy Ghost. You can apply this to Rob or to Denver or to some other YouTube guru. The important take-away is doing whatever it takes to open while Jesus is still knocking. A drowning man does not ask the man who is throwing a life preserver to him whether his name is Rob or Russell or whether he believes in Jesus or whether he is a prophet. The drowning man grabs on for dear life in order to live. From there, your choices increase and so on. I see a room full of drowning people arguing about why they shouldn't grab a life preserver when it is being offered. Maybe you have another life preserver thrown your way and you can choose it instead. More power to you.
I agree that we are all drowning spiritually. We are all lost and need Christ.
I don't want to be pedantic, however you absolutely are assuming Rob is a superior person.
"Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down"
"If you spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises ... then you would be much better for it"
I don't know how to read this without coming to the conclusion that Rob has some knowledge that would allow me to see Christ's face. This knowledge would make him superior, no?
If I am spiritually lazy then Rob is not for me. If I am spiritually advanced, then Rob is for me.
No. Seeing Christ's face doesn't make any one of us superior. It just means one has a covenant. So let's put Rob aside and look at the brother of Jared:
Ether 3:13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou
knowest these things ye are
redeemed from the fall; therefore
ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you...
19 And because of the
knowledge of this man he could not be kept from beholding within the veil; and he saw the finger of Jesus, which, when he saw, he fell with fear; for he knew that it was the finger of the Lord; and
he had faith no longer, for
he knew, nothing doubting.
Knowledge is a covenant term. Adam knew Eve. The brother of Jared knew Jesus. The rest of us who have not been "redeemed from the Fall" aka do not have "knowledge," do not have that guarantee. We are dead men walking. We go to our graves not knowing, but really, really hoping that we made it when we reach the other side. Only Jesus Christ is superior. He is the standard of salvation, not Rob or the brother of Jared. But they have some unique insights that we can learn from if and only if we desire the same thing. IF you do not have such a covenant or "knowledge," then how do you suppose you should go about obtaining it, assuming you even want it?
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 4:04 pm
by FrankOne
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:04 pm
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:57 pm
this may sound like it confuses what I've said before, but i might just end up in Jehovah's camp for a while.
Everything in it's time.
It is confusing, because it sounded like you said Rob was speaking for Jehovah. So you should be in Rob's camp, no?
I am 'out there' in my perspective. I see Jehovah as a Lord over a fallen world which was corrected with the advent of Christ. Jehovah has his place and Christ has his. Some say they are one and the same, but if so, he is bipolar with a split personality.
Jehovah will likely be in charge of the war against Satan to clean things up, which , of course is a good thing. Christ then comes and teaches the reality of what we are and why we are. No anger, no jealousy, no war, no wiping out those that disagree with you. It will be a different time completely. I personally would prefer to not engage in the clean up phase and just sit on a hill and watch the spectacle of good vs evil but...I might be a part of it . dunno. (I don't see things in terms of good vs evil.) but...sometimes, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 4:12 pm
by FrankOne
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 1:03 pm
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
Perhaps using your desire to rend the veil and cement your relationship with Jesus Christ in eternity as a litmus might determine whether you give Rob any more time. Many people have no desire or inclination to seek Christ's face in this life. Then Rob's advice is not for you because you're not willing to walk the path that he's been down. It's not even on your radar. But if you want Jesus like you need water and you need air, then you will do whatever it takes to learn as much as you can from wherever you can (being led by the Holy Ghost, of course!) and that includes the wisdom that Rob has to share. He's not forcing anyone to listen to him. But if you (generally speaking) spend as much energy seeking Christ's face as Rob advises as you do criticizing his methods, then you would be much better for it. It's really that simple.
I agree with the sentiment, however you are assuming a lot of things.
Rob has a superior way, because?
Rob teaches truth, because?
We should trust everything Rob says about himself, because?
We should ignore the times Rob was wrong, because?
I have noticed that any discussion about Rob always boils down to 2 things. Which coincidentally is the same for the LDS church.
1. Rob (RMN) is a superior person with a superior way and we just need to trust in him.
2. Rob (RMN) is a well-intentioned person who advocates for things that are not true.
It seems for some Rob is a cult like Denver, Phil Davis, the LDS church, or many factions of the remnant movement.
3. Rob is a very intelligent man that is now caught up in his own importance. Setting oneself up on a podium and giving acolytes badges which enable them to be special enough to be taught the special stuff is the forming of a cult.
I personally don't see trust as a part of this at all. Who would follow a man? Trust him to do what? He isn't relative to salvation at all. Listen and study what you detect as correct and discard the rest, like with all MEN.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 4:33 pm
by Telavian
FrankOne wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 4:12 pm
I personally don't see trust as a part of this at all. Who would follow a man? Trust him to do what? He isn't relative to salvation at all. Listen and study what you detect as correct and discard the rest, like with all MEN.
I agree. However when certain people say things, like Rob does, then certain others will automatically place the utterance on a higher tier.
Asking God if anyone is a prophet is a silly thing because it is a vacuous question. A prophet doesn't mean that everything they say is prophetic. We should think and study about everything. However when we ask if someone is a prophet that is really like asking God, "Can I trust everything this person says from now on?"
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 4:35 pm
by Telavian
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 3:49 pm
Knowledge is a covenant term. Adam knew Eve. The brother of Jared knew Jesus. The rest of us who have not been "redeemed from the Fall" aka do not have "knowledge," do not have that guarantee. We are dead men walking. We go to our graves not knowing, but really, really hoping that we made it when we reach the other side. Only Jesus Christ is superior. He is the standard of salvation, not Rob or the brother of Jared. But they have some unique insights that we can learn from if and only if we desire the same thing. IF you do not have such a covenant or "knowledge," then how do you suppose you should go about obtaining it, assuming you even want it?
How did Abraham get his knowledge? How did Joseph get his?
What does salvation mean if it is possible to fall from salvation as Lucifer did?
Is God a taskmaster that demands complete unwavering obedience, otherwise we are less than the dust of the earth?
I think requiring everyone to have a personal visitation from God in this life otherwise they are lost is too unrealistic and too restrictive.
I think saying just believe and you will make it is too passive and too easy. The truth is in the middle somewhere.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 4:37 pm
by marc
Telavian wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 4:35 pm
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 3:49 pm
Knowledge is a covenant term. Adam knew Eve. The brother of Jared knew Jesus. The rest of us who have not been "redeemed from the Fall" aka do not have "knowledge," do not have that guarantee. We are dead men walking. We go to our graves not knowing, but really, really hoping that we made it when we reach the other side. Only Jesus Christ is superior. He is the standard of salvation, not Rob or the brother of Jared. But they have some unique insights that we can learn from if and only if we desire the same thing. IF you do not have such a covenant or "knowledge," then how do you suppose you should go about obtaining it, assuming you even want it?
How did Abraham get his knowledge? How did Joseph get his?
What does salvation mean if it is possible to fall from salvation as Lucifer did?
Is God a taskmaster that demands complete unwavering obedience, otherwise we are less than the dust of the earth?
I think requiring everyone to have a personal visitation from God in this life otherwise they are lost is too unrealistic and too restrictive.
I think saying just believe and you will make it is too passive and too easy. The truth is in the middle somewhere.
And there's the rub.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 4:42 pm
by marc
And we ARE less than the dust of the Earth for even the dust obeys God when commanded to move.
Re: Rob Smith creating an official ministry now?
Posted: October 23rd, 2023, 5:12 pm
by Telavian
marc wrote: ↑October 23rd, 2023, 4:42 pm
And we ARE less than the dust of the Earth for even the dust obeys God when commanded to move.
I figured you would respond like that.
So we are either of infinite worth if we obey God with perfectness, otherwise we are of no value.