LDS Freedom Forum

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 13th, 2023, 9:51 pm

tmac wrote: ↑October 13th, 2023, 4:04 pm I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: There is always more to the equation than meets the eye. Almost nothing is as it seems. Let us not pretend that the modern state of Israel, and IDF, are not extremely callous about collateral damage, and killing helpless civilians. And let’s not kid ourselves that most Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are not essentially trapped, and pretty helpless. For most of them, their options, just as a matter of normal course, are pretty limited — largely thanks to how they are treated by Israel.

In the old Wild West, there was a saying about Indians — “The only good Indian is a dead Indian,” which is essentially a mirror of Israel’s attitude towards Palestinians. Many Israelis absolutely hate Palestinians. And hate is the primary driving force on both sides. Let us not forget that. And that doesn't even take into account all the agendas of TPTB and secret combinations which love to capitalize on such hate for their benefit.

killing babies is ok then! BTW I saw an interview with the mom of one child hostage, and uncle of the family murdered. I guess they deserved it. bought, wrapped and sold!

It all depends on one’s perspective.

Again, in an effort to dampen the black and white dichotomy, and put the “baby-killing” issue in a little better perspective, for the past 50 or so years killing babies has been the norm here in the U.S., and fully legal in all 50 states. And it is still legal in some states. All things considered, it would not be a huge stretch to say that the U.S. has pursued a relentless, undeclared war on fully conceived babies, with a high casualty rate.

Beheading a baby with a sword or dismembering it with a scalpel, or intentionally killing it with a drug, what is the real moral difference?

But it’s true, some people are convinced that regardless of what happens, and no matter the issue, they ALWAYS have the moral high ground. And you do seem to be one of those people.

Hamas kills some kids, so Israel will kill some kids, so Hezbolla will kill some kids, so Israel will kill more kids, so Syyria and Iran will kill some kids, so the US will kill alot of kids, so immigrants in Sweden and france will kill some kids, so EU reacts and their countries descend into chaos.

This has the potential to explode and spread across the globe. bad news for kids world wide. The only scenario where this doesn't spread to regional, then world War Is if Israel stops now and turns the other cheek. Something they won't/can't do.

So my friends, prepare for war, not a safe CNn streaming kind of war, a messy, bloody, world War fought in the middle east with jets and rockets, , and on the streets of London and Paris, and Copenhagen by mmigrants with handguns and Machetes. And a bloody Civil War in America.

The ptb have been unstabalizing countries, and making people afraid. They have have sewed seeds of hate and envy. The world is like a utah hillside full of dry cheat grass,, a hot south wind is blowing and all it lacks is a spark.

Hamas provided the spark.

Hope you are all ready.

That is certainly the potential. Both the powder keg and the dry cheatgrass are present. But, as with most such wildfires, if it can be contained early, it may not spiral completely out of control. It certainly could, and at some point will. But it will be interesting to see what happens.

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 2:11 am

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 13th, 2023, 9:51 pmkilling babies is ok then!

Bombs kill babies.

sure, so does water, fruit, germs, SIDS, falls, slips, etc... but none target it at point blank range intentionally. I give up here you're not capable of seeing the difference or being just plain bull headed, like I said if you cannot see the difference, then, they truly got you, like Mormon said.

And is it NOT A FOG! Israel says they killed babies intentionally. Hamas says they killed babies intentionally, Iran said it is right to kill Israeli babies intentionally. The MSM says it, even the Biden admin had to admit it. The left, the right and the middle in congress getting briefings says it. the relatives of the dead have said it. NO ONE has denied it. not ONCE!. Where the hell is the fog in this? Stick to this damned topic, not history, not Philistines. I'm asking a simple question and other than Chuck Baldwin or someone pulling the strings, show me where Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, or anyone on the scene has denied it. It is terror, they want it, they want the locals to know it

Conjuring up some fog to make points of putting Satan on good standing.

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 8:56 am And is it NOT A FOG! Israel says they killed babies intentionally. Hamas says they killed babies intentionally, Iran said it is right to kill Israeli babies intentionally. The MSM says it, even the Biden admin had to admit it. The left, the right and the middle in congress getting briefings says it. the relatives of the dead have said it. NO ONE has denied it. not ONCE!. Where the hell is the fog in this? Stick to this damned topic, not history, not Philistines. I'm asking a simple question and other than Chuck Baldwin or someone pulling the strings, show me where Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, or anyone on the scene has denied it. It is terror, they want it, they want the locals to know it

Conjuring up some fog to make points of putting Satan on good standing.

Those babies have names. If there really were forty killed then there should be forty young names. A biblically significant number, forty. It means, "enough".

There has been a lot of fake news and propaganda from both sides as well. Today they were showing video supposedly showing a car being bombed in the highway as they were evacuating Gaza. Although it shows nothing falling towards the explosion. Which probably means it was actually an IED or car bomb. The propaganda war is just as powerful.

Video for reference if you want to try to parse what happened: https://x.com/marionawfal/status/171320 ... K6r6PVgK0g

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 8:51 am

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 2:11 am

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 13th, 2023, 9:51 pmkilling babies is ok then!

Bombs kill babies.

sure, so does water, fruit, germs, SIDS, falls, slips, etc... but none target it at point blank range intentionally. I give up here you're not capable of seeing the difference or being just plain bull headed, like I said if you cannot see the difference, then, they truly got you, like Mormon said.

I witnessed the start of the Second Intifada back in 2000. I happened to be in Jerusalem at the time. It was obvious who had the better weaponry. If you have to press buttons to kill people it is less emotional than doing so using old fashioned methods. I don't agree with any of this brutality, but that's what's happened. They've been killing these folk and they're talking about clearing out hundreds of thousands of people from their homes on top of all the ones they already driven out since the forties. That creates a lot of very pissed off people and most of the Arab World, Muslims and even Russians now support them.

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 11:29 am

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 8:51 am

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 2:11 am

Bombs kill babies.

sure, so does water, fruit, germs, SIDS, falls, slips, etc... but none target it at point blank range intentionally. I give up here you're not capable of seeing the difference or being just plain bull headed, like I said if you cannot see the difference, then, they truly got you, like Mormon said.

I witnessed the start of the Second Intifada back in 2000. I happened to be in Jerusalem at the time. It was obvious who had the better weaponry. If you have to press buttons to kill people it is less emotional than doing so using old fashioned methods. I don't agree with any of this brutality, but that's what's happened. They've been killing these folk and they're talking about clearing out hundreds of thousands of people from their homes on top of all the ones they already driven out since the forties. That creates a lot of very pissed off people and most of the Arab World, Muslims and even Russians now support them.

what has this with my post? I made a simple statement. Intentionally killing babies is EVIL. You said we cannot know the truth. I said all sides have bragged about it and Hamas has published the videos on their middle eastern TV (not our MSM). You responded with this..................... bait and switch??????????? confusion on how to follow a topic or logically respond to a question or point?

So, here it is again. Babies are murdered. The murderers brag about it. The murdered show the results. The kidnapped are missing. The kidnappers brag on film from their cell phones they kidnapped the people. The kidnapped are NOT soldiers but mostly women and children. they kidnappers promise to rape the women (and female children) and kill them if they are retaliated against.

Where is the fog? Where is the questioning?

Answer only in the minds of those compromised by Satan. No where else on this simple point and topic.

I'm not writing a treatise on the history of the middle east or its inhabitants here Focus............ I know that is tooooooo much to ask. Sorry, wouldn't have been 3 years ago. Poor Mormon.......... so alone.

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 12:55 pm

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 11:29 am

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 8:51 am

sure, so does water, fruit, germs, SIDS, falls, slips, etc... but none target it at point blank range intentionally. I give up here you're not capable of seeing the difference or being just plain bull headed, like I said if you cannot see the difference, then, they truly got you, like Mormon said.

I witnessed the start of the Second Intifada back in 2000. I happened to be in Jerusalem at the time. It was obvious who had the better weaponry. If you have to press buttons to kill people it is less emotional than doing so using old fashioned methods. I don't agree with any of this brutality, but that's what's happened. They've been killing these folk and they're talking about clearing out hundreds of thousands of people from their homes on top of all the ones they already driven out since the forties. That creates a lot of very pissed off people and most of the Arab World, Muslims and even Russians now support them.

what has this with my post? I made a simple statement. Intentionally killing babies is EVIL. You said we cannot know the truth. I said all sides have bragged about it and Hamas has published the videos on their middle eastern TV (not our MSM). You responded with this..................... bait and switch??????????? confusion on how to follow a topic or logically respond to a question or point?

So, here it is again. Babies are murdered. The murderers brag about it. The murdered show the results. The kidnapped are missing. The kidnappers brag on film from their cell phones they kidnapped the people. The kidnapped are NOT soldiers but mostly women and children. they kidnappers promise to rape the women (and female children) and kill them if they are retaliated against.

Where is the fog? Where is the questioning?

Answer only in the minds of those compromised by Satan. No where else on this simple point and topic.

I'm not writing a treatise on the history of the middle east or its inhabitants here Focus............ I know that is tooooooo much to ask. Sorry, wouldn't have been 3 years ago. Poor Mormon.......... so alone.

You seem to think this comes out of nowhere. It comes out of seventy plus years of history.

You don't seem to see how pissed off people become when their homeland is invaded, they are continually bombed and besieged. It turns them into animals. You don't think seventy plus years of this has anything to do with this? Gaza used to be a normal Middle Eastern area a century ago, now it's a firing range full of rubble and dead bodies. Plenty of dead babies in these places but no one gives a toss about them unless they grow up to be suicide bombers or migrate to another country.

If that was done to you, you'd go apes*** too. Some people would become even more barbaric becoming rapists and worse.

You remind me of the First Presidency who think if a government orders something it is okay, but it's not okay for ordinary people to maje choices and defend themselves. That kind of thinking brought us Covid mandates and will bring us the Mark.

If you're killed by a missile, it's okay apparently, if a government ordered it.

The state of Israel is a fulfilment of prophecy but it is also the cause of a lot of its own trouble.

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 1:34 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 12:55 pm

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 11:29 am

I witnessed the start of the Second Intifada back in 2000. I happened to be in Jerusalem at the time. It was obvious who had the better weaponry. If you have to press buttons to kill people it is less emotional than doing so using old fashioned methods. I don't agree with any of this brutality, but that's what's happened. They've been killing these folk and they're talking about clearing out hundreds of thousands of people from their homes on top of all the ones they already driven out since the forties. That creates a lot of very pissed off people and most of the Arab World, Muslims and even Russians now support them.

what has this with my post? I made a simple statement. Intentionally killing babies is EVIL. You said we cannot know the truth. I said all sides have bragged about it and Hamas has published the videos on their middle eastern TV (not our MSM). You responded with this..................... bait and switch??????????? confusion on how to follow a topic or logically respond to a question or point?

So, here it is again. Babies are murdered. The murderers brag about it. The murdered show the results. The kidnapped are missing. The kidnappers brag on film from their cell phones they kidnapped the people. The kidnapped are NOT soldiers but mostly women and children. they kidnappers promise to rape the women (and female children) and kill them if they are retaliated against.

Where is the fog? Where is the questioning?

Answer only in the minds of those compromised by Satan. No where else on this simple point and topic.

I'm not writing a treatise on the history of the middle east or its inhabitants here Focus............ I know that is tooooooo much to ask. Sorry, wouldn't have been 3 years ago. Poor Mormon.......... so alone.

You seem to think this comes out of nowhere. It comes out of seventy plus years of history.

You don't seem to see how pissed off people become when their homeland is invaded, they are continually bombed and besieged. It turns them into animals. You don't think seventy plus years of this has anything to do with this? Gaza used to be a normal Middle Eastern area a century ago, now it's a firing range full of rubble and dead bodies. Plenty of dead babies in these places but no one gives a toss about them unless they grow up to be suicide bombers or migrate to another country.

If that was done to you, you'd go apes*** too. Some people would become even more barbaric becoming rapists and worse.

You remind me of the First Presidency who think if a government orders something it is okay, but it's not okay for ordinary people to maje choices and defend themselves. That kind of thinking brought us Covid mandates and will bring us the Mark.

If you're killed by a missile, it's okay apparently, if a government ordered it.

The state of Israel is a fulfilment of prophecy but it is also the cause of a lot of its own trouble.

thanks for proving my point. Making excused, getting off the topic, claiming evil is good. QED I don't care for a history lesson, I'm not seeing you qualified to provide the history. I was talking about murdering babies and you're giving me a lesson on why Satan is justified in claiming this world. It isn't 70 years of history it is 6000. No different in Israel, than in England or Scotland or France as far as the losing side of a battle wishing for revenge. In those other cases the revenge attempted was honest, not hiding behind women and killing children.

Good bye.

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 1:42 pm

Niemand wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 1:34 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 12:55 pm

what has this with my post? I made a simple statement. Intentionally killing babies is EVIL. You said we cannot know the truth. I said all sides have bragged about it and Hamas has published the videos on their middle eastern TV (not our MSM). You responded with this..................... bait and switch??????????? confusion on how to follow a topic or logically respond to a question or point?

So, here it is again. Babies are murdered. The murderers brag about it. The murdered show the results. The kidnapped are missing. The kidnappers brag on film from their cell phones they kidnapped the people. The kidnapped are NOT soldiers but mostly women and children. they kidnappers promise to rape the women (and female children) and kill them if they are retaliated against.

Where is the fog? Where is the questioning?

Answer only in the minds of those compromised by Satan. No where else on this simple point and topic.

I'm not writing a treatise on the history of the middle east or its inhabitants here Focus............ I know that is tooooooo much to ask. Sorry, wouldn't have been 3 years ago. Poor Mormon.......... so alone.

You seem to think this comes out of nowhere. It comes out of seventy plus years of history.

You don't seem to see how pissed off people become when their homeland is invaded, they are continually bombed and besieged. It turns them into animals. You don't think seventy plus years of this has anything to do with this? Gaza used to be a normal Middle Eastern area a century ago, now it's a firing range full of rubble and dead bodies. Plenty of dead babies in these places but no one gives a toss about them unless they grow up to be suicide bombers or migrate to another country.

If that was done to you, you'd go apes*** too. Some people would become even more barbaric becoming rapists and worse. The most evil people in the world are usually the product of an evil environment. Serial killers usually have a history of childhood abuse, terrorists usually come out of extreme situations such as this one.

You remind me of the First Presidency who think if a government orders something it is okay, but it's not okay for ordinary people to maje choices and defend themselves. That kind of thinking brought us Covid mandates and will bring us the Mark.

If you're killed by a missile, it's okay apparently, if a government ordered it.

The state of Israel is a fulfilment of prophecy but it is also the cause of a lot of its own trouble.

thanks for proving my point. Making excused, getting off the topic, claiming evil is good. QED I don't care for a history lesson, I'm not seeing you qualified to provide the history. I was talking about murdering babies and you're giving me a lesson on why Satan is justified in claiming this world. It isn't 70 years of history it is 6000. No different in Israel, than in England or Scotland or France as far as the losing side of a battle wishing for revenge. In those other cases the revenge attempted was honest, not hiding behind women and killing children.

Good bye.

You're making excuses for DECADES of this. Get some perspective here. This didn't start last week like you think it does.

You portray the IDF as saints. They aren't. That's why this happens. They killl innocent people on a regular basis. They don't just spend their time saving puppies like they claim in the popular news media.

There are people in my part of the world who are still angry about things which happened seven hundred years ago. People don't all operate on five year election cycles. Not in the Middle East where people have VERY long memories. Even Zionism is based on things that happened ten times longer ago than the USA or even UK has been in existence.

It is definitely interesting to see how black and white some people think this whole situation is, when in reality it is mostly black with a little bit of gray. There is plenty of black -- and evil -- on both sides. The gray zone is the fog -- and there is definitely plenty of gray zone and fog to go around as well. But there is no white anywhere in the equation. None, that I have seen. Anyone who cannot see the genuine evil(s) that the modern state of Israel perpetuates is either oblivious, or simply doesn't want to see the reality and corresponding truth(s). Many times those who can't see the ugly underbelly of Israel are the same people who can't see the ugly underbelly of the United States. But just because some people do not have the ability to see it does not mean that it doesn't exist. And I have found little benefit from attempting to discuss much with people who do live in such a distorted, black and white world.

tmac wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 2:01 pm It is definitely interesting to see how black and white some people think this whole situation is, when in reality it is mostly black with a little bit of gray. There is plenty of black -- and evil -- on both sides. The gray zone is the fog -- and there is definitely plenty of gray zone and fog to go around as well. But there is no white anywhere in the equation. None, that I have seen. Anyone who cannot see the genuine evil(s) that the modern state of Israel perpetuates is either oblivious, or simply doesn't want to see the reality and corresponding truth(s). Many times those who can't see the ugly underbelly of Israel are the same people who can't see the ugly underbelly of the United States. But just because some people do not have the ability to see it does not mean that it doesn't exist. And I have found little benefit from attempting to discuss much with people who do live in such a distorted, black and white world.

And like the movie Wargames tried to tell us decades ago, "The only reasonable choice is to choose not to play" or to that effect.

All the people who took the Covid shots bought into the abortion cult, most of them unknowingly. That's because they used foetal cell lines to develop them. Dead baby parts being farmed in Petri dishes or whatever they use to culture the cells.

Pharmaceutical companies governments only admitted to doing this months after millions of people were given theirs. It does not make all these people culpable, because they "know not what they do", but it does make them part of a sick and Satanic project.

As I read this thread I wonder if Hitler was on the right track...maybe the final solution for the jews was the only way.....I mean there was a Fog of war After hitler blitzkrieged his way into several other nations. Hitler was pissed off because of wwl and what happened to Germany after....they were the agressors as they tried to gain supremacy over their neighbors and lost.....so maybe hitler wasn't such a bad guy after all....right? he restored Germany to glory and white supremacy and tried to get rid of the problem of the jews, who wreck everything....the ovens served a purpose and obviously one that was needed..cuz look whats happening now...... Maybe jews don't have a right to live.....maybe if the Palestinians had used the billions of dollars flowing into their hands to improve their situation and stopped using their own people as pawns....perhaps they could have not murdered Israelis and kidnapped them on Saturday....and instead created a paradise for their people...one where palestinians could have had a good quality of life....the arab nations surroundimg palestine could have assimilated them, but they didn't for many reasons.....maybe Mormons don't have a right to exist....we had the mobs in Missouri that thought that...we even had the Missouri mormon extermination order that stood I think until 1976...shoot Mormons on sight and it's not murder...I don't know what stopped the Missourians from killing those damn Mormons...mormons wrecked everything....mormons were basically kicked out of the united states.....the government didn't want to protect them.....those damned Mormons ran to the barren salt lake and created a society there and continue to infight among themselves and with others...kicked the Indians to the curb and committed the mountain meadow massacres cuz they were pissed off...a dark piece of Mormon history for sure...which still pops up to sully Mormonism to this day......no one says the Mormons were justified in killing the francher party.......maybe methodists, catholics and Hindus don't have a right to exist...maybe none of us do....maybe human rights aren't a thing and people can just go around killing and terrorizing anyone at anytime especially babies...cuz the fog of war...

Original_Intent wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 2:17 pm

tmac wrote: ↑October 14th, 2023, 2:01 pm It is definitely interesting to see how black and white some people think this whole situation is, when in reality it is mostly black with a little bit of gray. There is plenty of black -- and evil -- on both sides. The gray zone is the fog -- and there is definitely plenty of gray zone and fog to go around as well. But there is no white anywhere in the equation. None, that I have seen. Anyone who cannot see the genuine evil(s) that the modern state of Israel perpetuates is either oblivious, or simply doesn't want to see the reality and corresponding truth(s). Many times those who can't see the ugly underbelly of Israel are the same people who can't see the ugly underbelly of the United States. But just because some people do not have the ability to see it does not mean that it doesn't exist. And I have found little benefit from attempting to discuss much with people who do live in such a distorted, black and white world.

And like the movie Wargames tried to tell us decades ago, "The only reasonable choice is to choose not to play" or to that effect.

That requires a level of maturity that probably doesn’t even exist in the real world of state actors. Choosing to turn the other cheek, and ignore, rather than escalate, requires a level of internal security that only exists in Statesmen, and is essentially non-existent among politicians. And it is way too much to expect from Bibi Netanyahu.

I don’t like the Tates much but he makes some pretty accurate points. It’s easy to
Take sides from a distance but up close and personal it’s a very different and much more scary and complex thing. There is no good side bad side. They are both doing the same thing. And both “equally justified” in doing it.
This is a sick contagion that it looks like is spreading past those borders and will soon engulf most or all of the world

"Truth is the first casualty of war", well isn't that an accurate statement. Often times the truth is too hard for most to comprehend or even understand.

Who would have ever believed that The USA would have sacrificed their own people in order to justify going to war with Cuba in the 1960's, but that is exactly what was proposed with Operation Northwoods. Was that a one off proposal never to be tried again? Would a Country sacrifice its own citizens to profit and gain from war? Would a country or countries sacrifice its own citizens health and well being to profit and gain from certain medical injections?

This is more than likely the reality of the situation in the middle east, following the exact same "problem, reaction, solution" pattern that is generally followed, where the same group that proposes the wanted solution also created the problem, or allowed it to happen in the first place

Let the wicked destroy the wicked.

That isn't to say never fight, but be sure that you are being commanded to fight or prompted to fight. Not being propagandized to fight.

I think of the times in the Book of Mormon that tell us the Lamanites or rather the Zoramites and Amalekites stirred up the lamanites to anger to go to war. I see the exact same M.O. being used today.

That is not to say that there were not reasons, but that the reasons were amplified and used as a justification for whatever conflict they wanted.

Can each of us look at this without the cloud of emotion (anger or worse hate)? Examine your heart when you are reading about this subject. What surfaces as an emotion if any? If decisions are made in the heat of emotion, then rational judgement is severely impaired (which is why they do it) - to get a mob rule reaction. No good thing really ever came of those.

My first instinct was pro-Israel. Israel is the good guy, Hamas is bad, etc. but then I realized that something was very wrong with the situation. Why did it take hours for the IDF to respond? The likelihood that they didn't know about the attack is about nil. Even if they didn't know at all before it happened, why did they wait so long before sending help? It is kind of like the situation in Maui about them not helping the people. It just doesn't add up, unless somebody in the Israeli government wanted them to be invaded, or perhaps it is part of the NWO plan somehow. Anyway, even though Hamas is evil, it is not clear cut that Israel is innocent. They said it is their 9-11. Perhaps they were involved somehow in doing harm to their own citizens so that they could further their own agenda (similar to conspiracies about our own 9-11)?

creator wrote: ↑October 16th, 2023, 9:02 am We've always been at war with Eastasia

2+2=5, Winston.