Should there be a new 3rd Party?

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larsenb
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Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by larsenb »

A post from Sharyl Attkisson cites a recent Gallup poll indicating 63% of Americans would favor a 3rd political Party; one that would better represent the real needs of the people: https://sharylattkisson.com/2023/10/gal ... rty-in-us/ And the actual Gallup poll article here: https://news.gallup.com/poll/512135/sup ... yndication

I wonder what folks here thinks about this idea.

Here is the article:

Support for Third U.S. Political Party Up to 63%
by Jeffrey M. Jones


Third time support has exceeded 60%, along with 2017 and 2021
Republicans primarily behind the increase, with 58% now in favor
Political independents remain group most likely to favor third party

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sixty-three percent of U.S. adults currently agree with the statement that the Republican and Democratic parties do “such a poor job” of representing the American people that “a third major party is needed.” This represents a seven-percentage-point increase from a year ago and is the highest since Gallup first asked the question in 2003. However, the current measure is not meaningfully different from the prior highs of 61% in 2017 and 62% in 2021, shortly after the January 2021 Capitol Hill riots.

Over the past two decades, majorities of U.S. adults have typically agreed that a third party is needed. The last time this wasn’t the case was in 2012, when Americans were evenly divided. Gallup also found close divisions in 2006 and 2008 polls. In 2003, a record-low 40% called for a third party when 56% thought the parties were doing “an adequate job of representing the American people.”

The latest data are based on Gallup’s annual Governance poll, conducted Sept. 1-23, 2023, which finds both parties receiving low favorable ratings, as has been the case for most of the past two decades.
More Republicans Want to See a Third Alternative

Typically, political independents are most likely to favor a third party, and that is the case this year, with 75% expressing this view. No less than 70% of independents have said a third U.S. party is needed since 2013.

Most often, support for a third party among Democrats and Republicans is below the majority level. However, this year’s poll shows 58% of Republicans endorsing a third U.S. political party, up from 45% a year ago. The only other time more Republicans than now expressed support for a third party was in a late January/early February 2021 conducted after the Jan. 6 riots, the second impeachment of Donald Trump, and the presidential inauguration of Joe Biden.

There has also been an uptick in support for a third party among Democrats this year, from 40% to 46%, though still less than a majority back the idea.

Although the data are not conclusive due to small sample sizes, both conservative Republicans and moderate/liberal Republicans appear more likely to endorse a third party than they were a year ago.

Republicans’ support for a third party tends to vary based on whether a Republican or Democratic president is in office. On average, 49% of Republicans have favored a third party in years when a Democratic president is in the White House, compared with 38% in years of a Republican incumbent. In contrast, independents’ and Democrats’ views of a third party have been similar under both types of presidential administrations.
Bottom Line

For more than a decade now, most Americans have expressed a desire for a third major political party, but none as powerful as the Republican and Democratic parties has emerged. Third-party candidates have, however, been thought to have played spoilers in key states in past presidential elections, including Ralph Nader in 2000 and Jill Stein in 2016. Thus, it is unclear to what extent Americans actually desire a third party, as opposed to just expressing their frustration with the two parties that contest elections and govern in the U.S. two-party system.

With the 2024 presidential election looming, noted educator Cornel West has declared his candidacy for the Green Party nomination, and political scion Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is expected to announce his independent presidential candidacy. In addition, the “No Labels” organization is laying the groundwork to run a third-party candidate that represents the political center. This effort is partly designed to address public sentiment in favor of a third party and dissatisfaction with a rematch of the 2020 election between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, both of whom are unpopular with U.S. adults.

An effort similar to the No Labels campaign in 2012 run under the “Americans Elect” banner was abandoned when no candidate met the minimum threshold for winning the party’s nomination. The No Labels organization says it has no interest in playing a spoiler role and will not decide on its 2024 intentions until after the major-party nominees have been determined.

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Niemand
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Niemand »

It is ridiculous to think that these two parties, which resemble each other in so many ways, reflect the full range of mainstream American opinion.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Subcomandante »

Niemand wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:19 pm It is ridiculous to think that these two parties, which resemble each other in so many ways, reflect the full range of mainstream American opinion.
Well across the pond it is mostly Conservative and Labour. Sure, you have a few LibDems here and there, and in the other constituent countries you have nationalist and unionist parties but they make up a small amount of Parliament members.

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nightlight
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by nightlight »

Subcomandante wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:34 pm
Niemand wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:19 pm It is ridiculous to think that these two parties, which resemble each other in so many ways, reflect the full range of mainstream American opinion.
Well across the pond it is mostly Conservative and Labour. Sure, you have a few LibDems here and there, and in the other constituent countries you have nationalist and unionist parties but they make up a small amount of Parliament members.
What does your profile picture mean?

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madvin
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by madvin »

There should be, but it will not take hold as long as TPTSB are in charge.

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logicalheart
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by logicalheart »

There are already enough political parties. I typically vote for some candidates in the Constitution, Libertarian, and Republican parties. Some years ago, I was reviewing the presidential candidates across 6 different parties in the same election, and that does not include independent candidates.
The Gallup poll and the article make a false conclusion. 63% of people do not, and will not favor a third political party. What the poll results really mean is that people are embarrassed about the performance of who they vote for but are too weak to vote for someone better than a confidence man who makes them feel good and who seems popular.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Subcomandante »

nightlight wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:41 pm
Subcomandante wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:34 pm
Niemand wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:19 pm It is ridiculous to think that these two parties, which resemble each other in so many ways, reflect the full range of mainstream American opinion.
Well across the pond it is mostly Conservative and Labour. Sure, you have a few LibDems here and there, and in the other constituent countries you have nationalist and unionist parties but they make up a small amount of Parliament members.
What does your profile picture mean?
בנו של אלוהים
בן הברית
תלמידו של ישוע המשיח

Benu Sel Elohim
Ben Ha-Berit
Talmidu sel Yeshua ha Maschiach

Son of God
Son of the Covenant
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nightlight
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by nightlight »

Subcomandante wrote: October 9th, 2023, 10:06 pm
nightlight wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:41 pm
Subcomandante wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:34 pm

Well across the pond it is mostly Conservative and Labour. Sure, you have a few LibDems here and there, and in the other constituent countries you have nationalist and unionist parties but they make up a small amount of Parliament members.
What does your profile picture mean?
בנו של אלוהים
בן הברית
תלמידו של ישוע המשיח

Benu Sel Elohim
Ben Ha-Berit
Talmidu sel Yeshua ha Maschiach

Son of God
Son of the Covenant
Disciple / Student of Jesus the Christ
Dope

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Niemand wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:19 pm It is ridiculous to think that these two parties, which resemble each other in so many ways, reflect the full range of mainstream American opinion.



“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies... is a foolish idea. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can throw the rascals out at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party which will be none of these things but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same basic policies.”
― Carroll Quigley

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Wolfwoman
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Wolfwoman »

Like a populist party or something?
Maybe. I don’t know. Maybe I have a bad perspective, but I really only see polar opposites. I see people who are “pro choice” who vote Democrat and people who are pro life who vote Republican and they can’t seem to come to any kind of agreement on that topic at all. Then there are people who want everything for free or for the government to pay for it snd there are those who understand what socialism is and want nothing to do with it. And these differences seem to be irreconcilable. So then a 3rd party seems unlikely. But maybe there is some kind of party that could cover all of those who consider themselves to be moderate. It seems unlikely to me. In my state we have more independents than republicans or democrats, but to me it seems that we have liberal independents and conservative independents, so again they seem to have mostly opposite views.

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Niemand
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Niemand »

Subcomandante wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:34 pm
Niemand wrote: October 9th, 2023, 5:19 pm It is ridiculous to think that these two parties, which resemble each other in so many ways, reflect the full range of mainstream American opinion.
Well across the pond it is mostly Conservative and Labour. Sure, you have a few LibDems here and there, and in the other constituent countries you have nationalist and unionist parties but they make up a small amount of Parliament members.
The UK has a two party system, but a much softer one. I'm not a fan of it there either. The WEF has control of Rishi Sunak (Conservative PM) and Keir Starrmer (Labour), and has had influence over the Lib Dems in the past, if not now (Nick Clegg was a Weffer.) As for the Scottish National Party, its former leader Nicola Sturgeon referred to Scots as "good Global Citizens" in a meeting with Bill Gates in 2018. The Lib Dems have been in government coalition in recent times.

Northern Ireland has none of these parties and Scotland is SNP dominated (the SNP are a whole thread on their own), with a four or four and half (SGP) party system. Wales has Plaid Cymru but they are mostly regional within Wales and haven't formed their own Welsh government. The DUP from Northern Ireland has had some influence on the Conservatives UK wide in the past.

In England itself, there are other parties which do get in like the Greens, UKIP, Brexit and so on. There are also past parties such as the Liberal Party, SDP and one or two others which have had varying degrees of success. (The Liberal Party was eclipsed by Labour, the SDP merged with them to form Lib Dems. )

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Niemand
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood here taught me the phrase Opposames for these various parties. I tend to agree. All of these parties are QR obsessed and forced through Covid tyranny.

Other examples:
* Stare of Israel has no less than TWELVE parties, but has still ended up with that tyrant Benjamin Netanyahu in charge. When I say tyrant, we're talking about aomeone who Instituted Covid apartheid, dismantled national broadcasting when it spoke out against him and is interfering with the judiciary.
* Ireland and Australia, possibly Canada, have similar set ups, i.e. multiple party systems dominated by two parties (more so than UK). But you still end up with turkeys such as Varadkar, Morrison and Turdeau. Quebec has its own nationalist bloc. Ireland is currently run by a Fianna Fail-Fine Gael coalition which is equivalent to the Republicans and Democrats forming a government together in the USA. The differences between FF and FG in Ireland tend to be tribal and regional, rather than ideological and go back to the Civil War.
* Japan had an even weirder set up. It effectively has a ONE party system, although other parties do get in at local level. The Liberal Democrats of Japan form a perpetual national government and the factiona within the party are more important than the other parties.

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ransomme
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by ransomme »

To be clear, there are a plethora of parties in the US, it's just that not enough people vote for them.

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Niemand
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by Niemand »

ransomme wrote: October 10th, 2023, 2:42 am To be clear, there are a plethora of parties in the US, it's just that not enough people vote for them.
The most obvious problem is media coverage. I'm aware of the Green and Libertarian parties over there, and have seen them get some coverage but it's still nothing compared to the Republicrats.

I've seen pictures of the presidential ballot which has a huge number of candidates on it. Many of them are openly Communist candidates who most sane Americans would never vote for.

There seem to be other mechanisms to prevent a shift. The Republicrats joined forces to round on Ross Perot. Then there is the electoral college. The sheer size of the USA also makes it hard for national parties to emerge.

The WEF and Bilderbergers have hacked two party systems across the world. They just invite both lota along. I don't have much faith in supposed electoral systems anywhere these days – Brazil, New Zealand, Canada, Russia, Ukraine all have evidence of electoral fraud. As for most of the Third World their systems are even more of a joke.

lundbaek
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by lundbaek »

ransomme wrote: October 10th, 2023, 2:42 am To be clear, there are a plethora of parties in the US, it's just that not enough people vote for them.
Quite true. I find the Constitution Party is most compatible with my political persuasions and religious convictions.

larsenb
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Re: Should there be a new 3rd Party?

Post by larsenb »

lundbaek wrote: October 11th, 2023, 3:44 pm
ransomme wrote: October 10th, 2023, 2:42 am To be clear, there are a plethora of parties in the US, it's just that not enough people vote for them.
Quite true. I find the Constitution Party is most compatible with my political persuasions and religious convictions.
I've said this repeatedly before, but no pickup.

My view is that the usual and current 3rd parties are too narrowly focused and perhaps ideological to attract a wide-spread constituency. They will most likely never get off the ground.

But I think there is a ready-made constituency that could move into a 3rd Party and make it work, one so large that the media could not ignore it.

It is the constituency brought out of the wood-work by Trump's Presidency, and platform . . . . which does not mean that it is blindly pro-Trump, etc. But it is defined by its focus on nationalism and the core principles that support this kind of nationalism: freedom, freedom from governments, righteous living, conserving the best from the past and yes, independence from unnecessary international entanglements.

And I'm really impressed by Mosiah Hanckock's experience as a young man hearing Joseph Smith, while in his parent's home (1843 or 1844), prophesy that in the later days of this country, two parties would exist: the Republican and Democratic Parties (The Republican Party didn't come into existence until about 1854). And down the pike, these two parties would war or contend with one another, and out of this 'battle would arise the Independent American Party from the Republican Party.

For me, if true, this assertion by Mosiah Hancock is a bulls eye for Joseph Smith. Why? Because the central political conflict of our latter day, is the fight for national independence against the global juggernaut, embodied currently by the WEF, etc. If this isn't solved, you're never going to solve the more ideological problems identified by the Libertarian, Conservative, or Constitutional Parties.

Now there apparently is an American Independent Party, but this will remain very obscure until someone with recognizable clout and power decides to move Trump's constituency into it, and encourages other like-minded people to move into it. This is the only way the Rhino's and there supporters, etc., etc., are going to be separated from the real 'conservative' element, in my view. And the rules governing party membership and those running for office under this banner, should be such that the Rhinos and money grubbing plutocrats don't move back into the new party and preempt it again.

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