LDS Freedom Forum

Here’s an interesting quote from Joseph Smith (I’m sure this has been quoted before on the forum). Just remember the Article of Faith that gives allowance for all men to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience, and then compare that to the modern church, particularly the talks given in general conference:

"I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine." (History of the Church 5:340)

Considering this comes from the History of the Church, we could argue the validity of it, but I think there is truth here.

This quote actually hits close to home. Joseph Smith taught that the Methodist sect would often tell people to “believe or be asked out of their church.” A few months ago my former Elders Quorum president visited our home. His goal was to ask us back to church. During the conversation I mentioned that there were certain doctrines of the church that directly contradicted Christ’s teachings. Instead of asking what those doctrines may be, he simply said, “Why don’t you just leave the church?”

I was astounded to say the least. I was raised to believe that rigorous spiritual discussion was important, that asking questions was important. Today, that doesn’t appear to be the case. You either believe or leave.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 7:31 am I was astounded to say the least. I was raised to believe that rigorous spiritual discussion was important, that asking questions was important. Today, that doesn’t appear to be the case. You either believe or leave.

The entire discipline system of the church is structured on the believe or leave idea. When I was disfellowshipped for apostasy, then I was separated from the church in all aspects. I can physically be places, but I can no longer participate in any form. Can't pray, can't talk, can't discuss, can't use the priesthood, can't take the sacrament, and my leaders won't discuss anything with me.

I have to believe again otherwise I am included only in the church as a token gesture.

Telavian wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 7:37 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 7:31 am I was astounded to say the least. I was raised to believe that rigorous spiritual discussion was important, that asking questions was important. Today, that doesn’t appear to be the case. You either believe or leave.

The entire discipline system of the church is structured on the believe or leave idea. When I was disfellowshipped for apostasy, then I was separated from the church in all aspects. I can physically be places, but I can no longer participate in any form. Can't pray, can't talk, can't discuss, can't use the priesthood, can't take the sacrament, and my leaders won't discuss anything with me.

I have to believe again otherwise I am included only in the church as a token gesture.

Ah, that’s right, you can’t even participate in discussion. Crazy upside down world.