Does the LDS church have valid ordinances?

[fractal_light_harvest]

I am still interested in the authority and power to do outward priesthood ordinances topic. I do believe personally the church lost all or much of the Holy Ghost (possibly due to Covid) but am still wrestling with how authority works in God’s house. I only check in on this forum when I have down time so sorry if this issue has been beat like a dead horse in the past. I’m a numbers guy so I did it as a poll.

[Chip]

The church wants nothing more than to make you subject to its authority. It used to be kind of benign, but since COVID, it's flat-out fraud. So, it doesn't matter, anymore. Just seek Jesus. He is all that will matter because He is the truth, not some NWO church.

[fractal_light_harvest]

The church wants nothing more than to make you subject to its authority. It used to be kind of benign, but since COVID, it's flat-out fraud. So, it doesn't matter, anymore. Just seek Jesus. He is all that will matter because He is the truth, not some NWO church.

So any power would come straight from Jesus then in your understanding?

[Chip]

The church wants nothing more than to make you subject to its authority. It used to be kind of benign, but since COVID, it's flat-out fraud. So, it doesn't matter, anymore. Just seek Jesus. He is all that will matter because He is the truth, not some NWO church.

So any power would come straight from Jesus then in your understanding?

Or the Spirit or Father.

And maybe you should clarify what you mean by "power".

[Chip]

Rereading your initial post, "power" means the authority to perform ordinances. Those each have to be ratified by God, I suppose. Outside of Christ, men certainly have no authority. So, the question is, does the church carry some kind of packaged transferable authority? I don't think it works like that, at this point.

[Wolfwoman]

According to Snuffer, some people in the church could have priesthood power/authority. Those that were ordained prior to April 2014, I believe it was. But the general authorities lost their priesthood at the April 2014 general conference. There have been signs of the apostasy, like Eldred G. Smith, patriarch to the church (emeritus) dying at the age of 106 in 2013.

[fractal_light_harvest]

The church wants nothing more than to make you subject to its authority. It used to be kind of benign, but since COVID, it's flat-out fraud. So, it doesn't matter, anymore. Just seek Jesus. He is all that will matter because He is the truth, not some NWO church.

So any power would come straight from Jesus then in your understanding?

Or the Spirit or Father.

And maybe you should clarify what you mean by "power".

Tbh I’m not sure what the “power” is. I think in the Book of mormon when Alma baptizes it says he has “power” to do it. And also power is mentioned during sacrament I guess. It seems like you would need power since I often hear “power and authority” and “power in the priesthood”. Idk tbh.

[fractal_light_harvest]

According to Snuffer, some people in the church could have priesthood power/authority. Those that were ordained prior to April 2014, I believe it was. But the general authorities lost their priesthood at the April 2014 general conference. There have been signs of the apostasy, like Eldred G. Smith, patriarch to the church (emeritus) dying at the age of 106 in 2013.

Ok I have heard interesting doctrine from people in that group but I have also heard they sometimes have struggled or had infighting. One of them had an explanation about sacrament power from Snuffer that made sense to me.

Do you think a restorationist group could have power/authority?

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I'll let Isaiah answer. This is the Gileadi translation with explanation.

24:4–6 The earth shall pine away, the world miserably perish; the elite of the earth shall be made wretched. The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants: they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, set at nought the ancient covenant. The curse devours the earth, for those who dwell on it have incurred guilt; because of it the population of the earth shall be diminished and little of mankind remain.

The destruction of the “earth” and the “world” parallels that of Greater Babylon, which also consists of the “earth” and the “world” (Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16–17, 21, 26; 16:4; 23:9). The decimation of “mankind” continues that theme (Isaiah 13:12; 33:8). Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” (hoq) and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” (torot), thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void. Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5–11; 52:14).

[BeNotDeceived]

Baptism and Sacramental Prayers.

That’s all folks.

[John Tavner]

Power and/or authority is given/held to/by individuals, not organizations. Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in houses not made of flesh- it doesn't dwell in organizatoins, but in people. It can't be "lost" because an organization does something.

[fractal_light_harvest]

I'll let Isaiah answer. This is the Gileadi translation with explanation.

24:4–6 The earth shall pine away, the world miserably perish; the elite of the earth shall be made wretched. The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants: they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, set at nought the ancient covenant. The curse devours the earth, for those who dwell on it have incurred guilt; because of it the population of the earth shall be diminished and little of mankind remain.

The destruction of the “earth” and the “world” parallels that of Greater Babylon, which also consists of the “earth” and the “world” (Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16–17, 21, 26; 16:4; 23:9). The decimation of “mankind” continues that theme (Isaiah 13:12; 33:8). Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” (hoq) and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” (torot), thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void. Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5–11; 52:14).

That’s interesting. This already happened then? Does Gilaedi’s group say they have power/authority?

[BringerOfJoy]

Baptism and Sacramental Prayers.

That’s all folks.

Not even a little bit, now.

[fractal_light_harvest]

Baptism and Sacramental Prayers.

That’s all folks.

Those are the main ordinances I see mentioned in the scriptures.

[Chip]

Just take a snapshot of the church, right now...

They induced millions of members to receive poisonous injections concocted by that secret combination that we are SUPPOSED to be awakening to. They say NOTHING of current events in their addresses. They are AGAINST awakening to our awful situation. Futhermore, they MANIPULATE members with their talks, into listening only to them, effectively before the people even listen to the Holy Spirit. These guys have become evil. I don't know how else to describe them. They are so ensnared by their holdings in Babylon, that they prioritized the safety of their assets BEFORE even toddlers' health. Not only do they NOT have any more authority, I suspect God is royally pissed at them for their choices. They didn't know, maybe? Then why in the heck are they advertising themselves as GOD'S AUTHORIZED PROPHETS? Talk about taking the Lord's name in vain, this just takes the cake. But, there's one more dimension to all this that has a much greater mass: What in the world are members thinking, going along with these charlatan's? What protection can they really call down from Heaven, after throwing away truth and the Book of Mormon, in order to engage in all this idolatry of the church and its leaders? I know members that are sick and dying of the shots and they refuse to pin the tail on the donkey. They believe that they will be exonerated by God for doing what these men told them to do.

[fractal_light_harvest]

Just take a snapshot of the church, right now...

They induced millions of members to receive poisonous injections concocted by that secret combination that we are SUPPOSED to be awakening to. They say NOTHING of current events in their addresses. They are AGAINST awakening to our awful situation. Futhermore, they MANIPULATE members with their talks, into listening only to them, effectively before the people even listen to the Holy Spirit. These guys have become evil. I don't know how else to describe them. They are so ensnared by their holdings in Babylon, that they prioritized the safety of their assets BEFORE even toddlers' health. Not only do they NOT have any more authority, I suspect God is royally pissed at them for their choices. They didn't know, maybe? Then why in the heck are they advertising themselves as GOD'S AUTHORIZED PROPHETS? Talk about taking the Lord's name in vain, this just takes the cake. But, there's one more dimension to all this that has a much greater mass: What in the world are members thinking, going along with these charlatan's? What protection can they really call down from Heaven, after throwing away truth and the Book of Mormon, in order to engage in all this idolatry of the church and its leaders? I know members that are sick and dying of the shots and they refuse to pin the tail on the donkey. They believe that they will be exonerated by God for doing what these men told them to do.

Wow yes, you really hit the nail on the head for me. Yes we need to awaken to the pit we’ve dig for ourselves and how awful our situation is. I think Satan has been slowly leading the members astray like it says in the book of mormon by a flaxen cord all this time by habituating them to never question the leadership. Like ever since Joseph appeared to BY and said tell the members to get the holy ghost he’s been plotting how to get the holy ghost to leave them entirely as a group. And he did it by getting the leaders to become big time money men and invest in vaccines and so on. And the members to follow the “profit” no matter what. Joseph didn’t say tell the members to follow the leaders no matter what, he said tell them to get the holy ghost and they’ll be just fine. But you get the gift of the holy ghost after baptism.

So let me ask you Chip, do you believe the lds never had the priesthood all along or lost it after the vaxx lies and posturing? I was baptized in the lds church and did a mission but now I’m not sure if my baptism was valid or wasn’t.

[fractal_light_harvest]

Power and/or authority is given/held to/by individuals, not organizations. Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in houses not made of flesh- it doesn't dwell in organizatoins, but in people. It can't be "lost" because an organization does something.

Okay I could see this being the case. Do you think any individual leaders or members in the LDS church had it then?

[nightlight]

Power and/or authority is given/held to/by individuals, not organizations. Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in houses not made of flesh- it doesn't dwell in organizatoins, but in people. It can't be "lost" because an organization does something.

I literally was thinking this same exact thing.

The scriptures show that this is the case

What Christ did, and who He sent after His ascension... made this power/authority available to any who receive Him.

Its the only logical conclusion

[Chip]

Just take a snapshot of the church, right now...

They induced millions of members to receive poisonous injections concocted by that secret combination that we are SUPPOSED to be awakening to. They say NOTHING of current events in their addresses. They are AGAINST awakening to our awful situation. Futhermore, they MANIPULATE members with their talks, into listening only to them, effectively before the people even listen to the Holy Spirit. These guys have become evil. I don't know how else to describe them. They are so ensnared by their holdings in Babylon, that they prioritized the safety of their assets BEFORE even toddlers' health. Not only do they NOT have any more authority, I suspect God is royally pissed at them for their choices. They didn't know, maybe? Then why in the heck are they advertising themselves as GOD'S AUTHORIZED PROPHETS? Talk about taking the Lord's name in vain, this just takes the cake. But, there's one more dimension to all this that has a much greater mass: What in the world are members thinking, going along with these charlatan's? What protection can they really call down from Heaven, after throwing away truth and the Book of Mormon, in order to engage in all this idolatry of the church and its leaders? I know members that are sick and dying of the shots and they refuse to pin the tail on the donkey. They believe that they will be exonerated by God for doing what these men told them to do.

Wow yes, you really hit the nail on the head for me. Yes we need to awaken to the pit we’ve dig for ourselves and how awful our situation is. I think Satan has been slowly leading the members astray like it says in the book of mormon by a flaxen cord all this time by habituating them to never question the leadership. Like ever since Joseph appeared to BY and said tell the members to get the holy ghost he’s been plotting how to get the holy ghost to leave them entirely as a group. And he did it by getting the leaders to become big time money men and invest in vaccines and so on. And the members to follow the “profit” no matter what. Joseph didn’t say tell the members to follow the leaders no matter what, he said tell them to get the holy ghost and they’ll be just fine. But you get the gift of the holy ghost after baptism.

So let me ask you Chip, do you believe the lds never had the priesthood all along or lost it after the vaxx lies and posturing? I was baptized in the lds church and did a mission but now I’m not sure if my baptism was valid or wasn’t.

I think LDS baptisms are valid, just like other church's baptisms are. I don't believe any church has ever had any exclusive authority to baptise or heal. These things come from Christ and are available to every believer. This is what is evident to me, anyway.

[fractal_light_harvest]

Just take a snapshot of the church, right now...

They induced millions of members to receive poisonous injections concocted by that secret combination that we are SUPPOSED to be awakening to. They say NOTHING of current events in their addresses. They are AGAINST awakening to our awful situation. Futhermore, they MANIPULATE members with their talks, into listening only to them, effectively before the people even listen to the Holy Spirit. These guys have become evil. I don't know how else to describe them. They are so ensnared by their holdings in Babylon, that they prioritized the safety of their assets BEFORE even toddlers' health. Not only do they NOT have any more authority, I suspect God is royally pissed at them for their choices. They didn't know, maybe? Then why in the heck are they advertising themselves as GOD'S AUTHORIZED PROPHETS? Talk about taking the Lord's name in vain, this just takes the cake. But, there's one more dimension to all this that has a much greater mass: What in the world are members thinking, going along with these charlatan's? What protection can they really call down from Heaven, after throwing away truth and the Book of Mormon, in order to engage in all this idolatry of the church and its leaders? I know members that are sick and dying of the shots and they refuse to pin the tail on the donkey. They believe that they will be exonerated by God for doing what these men told them to do.

Wow yes, you really hit the nail on the head for me. Yes we need to awaken to the pit we’ve dig for ourselves and how awful our situation is. I think Satan has been slowly leading the members astray like it says in the book of mormon by a flaxen cord all this time by habituating them to never question the leadership. Like ever since Joseph appeared to BY and said tell the members to get the holy ghost he’s been plotting how to get the holy ghost to leave them entirely as a group. And he did it by getting the leaders to become big time money men and invest in vaccines and so on. And the members to follow the “profit” no matter what. Joseph didn’t say tell the members to follow the leaders no matter what, he said tell them to get the holy ghost and they’ll be just fine. But you get the gift of the holy ghost after baptism.

So let me ask you Chip, do you believe the lds never had the priesthood all along or lost it after the vaxx lies and posturing? I was baptized in the lds church and did a mission but now I’m not sure if my baptism was valid or wasn’t.

I think LDS baptisms are valid, just like other church's baptisms are. I don't believe any church has ever had any exclusive authority to baptise or heal. These things come from Christ and are available to every believer. This is what is evident to me, anyway.

This is the first time ive ever considered that as a real possibility. I’m not entirely sure how to know if that’s true or not tbh.

[fractal_light_harvest]

Power and/or authority is given/held to/by individuals, not organizations. Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in houses not made of flesh- it doesn't dwell in organizatoins, but in people. It can't be "lost" because an organization does something.

I literally was thinking this same exact thing.

The scriptures show that this is the case

What Christ did, and who He sent after His ascension... made this power/authority available to any who receive Him.

Its the only logical conclusion

It does seem to make sense the more I consider it. It’s not really about organizations necessarily but just people maybe?

[Wolfwoman]

According to Snuffer, some people in the church could have priesthood power/authority. Those that were ordained prior to April 2014, I believe it was. But the general authorities lost their priesthood at the April 2014 general conference. There have been signs of the apostasy, like Eldred G. Smith, patriarch to the church (emeritus) dying at the age of 106 in 2013.

Ok I have heard interesting doctrine from people in that group but I have also heard they sometimes have struggled or had infighting. One of them had an explanation about sacrament power from Snuffer that made sense to me.

Do you think a restorationist group could have power/authority?

Yes, that’s what I voted for in the poll.

[fractal_light_harvest]

According to Snuffer, some people in the church could have priesthood power/authority. Those that were ordained prior to April 2014, I believe it was. But the general authorities lost their priesthood at the April 2014 general conference. There have been signs of the apostasy, like Eldred G. Smith, patriarch to the church (emeritus) dying at the age of 106 in 2013.

Ok I have heard interesting doctrine from people in that group but I have also heard they sometimes have struggled or had infighting. One of them had an explanation about sacrament power from Snuffer that made sense to me.

Do you think a restorationist group could have power/authority?

Yes, that’s what I voted for in the poll.

Interesting. So maybe there were people who held power/authority in LDS but lost it and now there are people in one or more restoration groups to perform outward ordinances in christ’s name meaning the authority was transfered or wrested as I’ve seen people put it?

[Aussie]

According to Isaiah because the leaders and members of the LDS church have perverted God's laws and changed his ordinances they have been rendered null and void!!

Isaiah:
24:4–6 The earth shall pine away, the world miserably perish; the elite of the earth shall be made wretched. The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants: they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, set at nought the ancient covenant. The curse devours the earth, for those who dwell on it have incurred guilt; because of it the population of the earth shall be diminished and little of mankind remain.

The destruction of the “earth” and the “world” parallels that of Greater Babylon, which also consists of the “earth” and the “world” (Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16–17, 21, 26; 16:4; 23:9). The decimation of “mankind” continues that theme (Isaiah 13:12; 33:8). Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” (hoq) and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” (torot), thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void. Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5–11; 52:14).

[Luke]

“Plural marriage will end when the Church had gone to the Devil or the Priesthood taken from this people — then God would give it to another people.” — Heber C. Kimball (Heber C. Kimball sermon, 1 February 1849, in D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power page 747)